2016: A Disappointing Year?

[BrickJagger]

Now do you see why I find it so darn ridiculous the Historic faction of the community is acting like they are? Give it time, Lego doesn't always run all themes at once. Almost every other group of the community has had to live through their favorite themes being cancelled for a while, Lego Space, Lego Trains, Bionicle fans, Harry Potter Fans, etc. the list just goes on and on! I will gladly wait for another year or two if Lego doesn't release another Creator Train right away. If Bionicle is cancelled I'll gladly continue MOCing sets and enjoying the lore. Heck, if even Lego Star Wars is canceled (ridiculous to think of, but you never know what is possible) I will gladly collect my own bricks to create what I want. Just because Lego isn't producing exactly what you want doesn't mean they haven't made it already, or that they will make it again. Plus it is no restraint to go and Bricklink your own bricks and build what you want! So stop whining and get MOCing and make something great. Continue with this entitlement that "Nexo-Knights hurts my feelings 'cause it isn't more Lord of the Rings" and I swear historic themes will become the laughing stock of the Lego fan community.

The problem with your statement is that all of those themes were put on hold for a reason. There is no real reason for there not to be a historic theme this year, or last year, or the year before. Nexo Knights is currently my favorite theme, but my primary favorite theme is and always will be Castle. Black is correct in saying that many Historic themes members do not approve of Nexo Knights. The poll we conducted awhile back confirms this.

We don't want another Lotr (It was a poor theme anyway) but we do want something that can be considered Historic. Nexo Knights is a Castle subtheme but I'd be the first to tell you that monster-podracers and robo-horses don't fit the criteria.

Also, some people are Moc'ers and some people are collectors. You can't expect collectors to become Moc'ers when their theme ends. I believe there's and entire thread about this topic.

Finally, to call Historic Themes "The laughing stock of the Lego community" is pretty weak when the exact same sentence can be formed about the "Bonkle" fanbase using Bionicle and Hero Factory. All forums act this way, and there's no reason to hone in on just one.

[xboxtravis7992]

Honestly it's been 17 days since I wrote that comment, and I was hoping it wasn't goingto be noticed again... I was a bit to overly sharp in my opinion that day, but decided not to redact it since it was already written. I was just merely trying to express my frustration of "2016 is bad=Nexo Knights" comments that have ruled this topic since it started. Don't take my earlier comments to seriously.

[RetroInferno]

Castle is such a pillar for Lego and the community that even for it to go missing for a couple years feels wrong. It's almost as if City or Starwars sets were discontinued for a while, and I can really understand the frustration in the historic community.

[Andrzej777]

https://innovalug.com/techniques

I found some interesting techniques here

[PicnicBasketSam]

We get it. Nexo Knights is not Castle. But everything else this year is not a big pile of garbage because one theme isn't there.

Edited July 1, 2016 by PicnicBasketSam

[x105Black]

We get it. Nexo Knights is not Castle. But everything else this year is not a big pile of garbage because one theme isn't there.

No, there are other reasons for that.

Ninjago is unappealing to me. Not a fan of the sky pirates, though I do like the green / brown color scheme.

I am not a fan of what City has been doing lately. I do like a lot of things in the Fun in the Park set, though.

I never liked Bionicle, constraction doesn't really feel like LEGO.

Star Wars is a little weak if you're like me and prefer locations to ships. That said, the ships are looking good.

Minecraft is great, if you're into that kind of thing. I'd buy them for parts if the price per part wasn't so high.

Angry Birds is a pile of garbage.

There isn't much in the Superheroes themes for me to get too excited about, except minifigures that I can buy on BrickLink.

Elves is great, except for the minidolls, and I much prefer molded dragons to buildable ones.

I never collected architecture because most are not in minifigure scale.

Creator sets aren't that great, except the Expert series of modular buildings.

Ghostbusters has nothing for me. As much as I am a fan of Ghostbusters 1 & 2, I'm not a superfan willing to spend that much money on it.

I think I went through just about every theme with sets this year. I have my own reasons for being disappointed with this year. Mostly, though, the Pirates and Castle sets are what bring me to the store. The others are supplementary, and I buy them occasionally. Without Pirates and Castle sets this year, it's easy to be disappointed.

[Lyichir]

Castle is such a pillar for Lego and the community that even for it to go missing for a couple years feels wrong. It's almost as if City or Starwars sets were discontinued for a while, and I can really understand the frustration in the historic community.

It's funny you include Star Wars in that list, considering that the SPACE theme is usually considered one of Lego's core themes while the licensed Star Wars theme is often considered responsible for the Space theme's six-year absence between 2001 and 2007. Even if you don't consider Nexo Knights a "real" Castle theme, it'll still be three full years before the hiatus between Castle themes gets that long.

Edited July 1, 2016 by Lyichir

[RetroInferno]

Space went missing because it wasn't selling as good as Starwars, and in the bankrupcy situation Lego was I can't blame them for doing so. Yes, it ran for more 30 years and people loves it, but the situation called for it. We are in an entirely different situation now where a theme has been replaced by something else and was seemingly uncalled for. But yes, it's been 3 years so time will tell.

Edited July 1, 2016 by RetroInferno

[x105Black]

I believe that Space and Star Wars can coexist just as easily as Castle and Nexo Knights, which is to say that they very easily could.

[Andrzej777]

I believe that Space and Star Wars can coexist just as easily as Castle and Nexo Knights, which is to say that they very easily could.

I think they could.

But when I think about the last castle wave, and the last pirates wave, I think Lego should also re-imagine those themes.

The last two pirates waves (with a 5 year hiatus in between) were roughly similar, so if they bring out another pirates line in about 4 years with basically the same sets in different colors, people will complain. Same with classic castle!

I think people are likely to complain about such beloved themes because they have to wait a long time until something comes out and then it seems to be some sort of a lackluster re-hash.

Maybe lego should bring out a totally different historic theme, like the creator line. They could call it Lego History creator or something like that :)

Total fan service - with just a couple of sets each year spanning different themes, like maybe two sets castle, two sets pirates and two sets wild west, with new sets coming out each year to continue. Releasing fewer sets of each subtheme might help make those sets more interesting. I dont know - its just a thought.

[RetroInferno]

Most of the Starwars backlash isn't Lego fault though, look at what they had to work with, a movie set 30 years after ROTJ and barely any new vehicles to work with, the few new vehicles barely had screen time, were scrapped in editing ( snowspeeder ) or completly innacurate ( Kylo's Shuttle). I would have been pissed being a Lego designer having to cope with these factors.

[Aanchir]

Another way of looking at the Castle issue: For over a decade, LEGO has been releasing a new version of LEGO Castle every three or four years: Knights' Kingdom II in 2004, "Fantasy Era" in 2007, Kingdoms in 2010, and the latest Castle reboot in 2013. In this sense, the release pattern has seemingly not changed, and in fact we would not be due for a new take on LEGO Castle until next year or the year after that.

What has changed, however, is that lately, each iteration of Castle has gotten smaller. Not counting polybags, co-packs, or battle packs, Knights' Kingdom II had 13 sets its first year, 14 sets its second, and eleven sets its third (including six constraction sets each year). "Fantasy Era" Castle picked up the very next year, with 8 sets its first year, 10 sets its second, and five sets its second. The number of non-constraction sets for the theme as a whole technically rose, but if you count constraction sets it's clear the theme unmistakably got smaller. Moving on to 2010, Kingdoms had 8 sets its first year, 4 sets its second, and only 1 its third. 2013 Castle had 5 sets its first year and didn't even get a second or third year.

What this indicates to me is that not only is Castle a theme in decline, it's a theme that's been steadily declining for over a decade. And its decline can't easily be chalked up to particular strategic or design missteps, because the strategy and designs have changed with each iteration but failed to reverse the decline. Knights' Kingdom II was the closest to what we might call a "big bang" theme today, with a heavily marketed, multimedia story focusing on distinctive, colorful characters. "Fantasy Era" Castle dropped the constraction segment, the character-driven story, and some of the more outlandish colors in favor of more archetypical characters and more subdued colors, but also reintroduced dragons, introduced the Castle theme's first other fantasy races (the skeletons, dwarves, and trolls), and had some overtly fantasy-derived architecture. Kingdoms went back to having two human factions and generally dropped most of the fantasy elements, aside from one set featuring a wizard, but also introduced civilians/peasants — previously, the D2C Medieval Market Village had been their only appearance since the 80s. And finally, the 2013 Castle revival occupied a sort of a middle ground between Fantasy Era and Kingdoms, with iconic fantasy elements like an evil wizard and dragon along with castles that took design cues from their Kingdoms forerunners. Yet none of these themes seem to have sold well enough to result in more than a short spike in popularity.

With this in mind, could Castle and Nexo Knights coexist? Ideally, and conceptually, yes! Despite both heavily drawing from the same medieval fantasy tropes, they have very discrete styles and design sensibilities. But realistically, if Castle were reintroduced alongside Nexo Knights it's easy to see how the latter could cannibalize sales of the former, and that's a huge risk when the Castle theme/category has already gotten so much weaker since 2004.

Admitting to a decline like this is tough. I know this from experience. I'm a lifelong Bionicle fan, but sales for the Bionicle theme peaked in 2002, and nothing seems to be able to reliably reverse that decline. The constraction category's "headline act" has been through three iterations (Bionicle G1, Hero Factory, and Bionicle G2), but while these fresh approaches might have resulted in a brief uptick in popularity and sales, ever-smaller numbers of sets and ever-lower search interest indicate that they have not been able to reverse the overall trend. As of this summer, Bionicle is becoming a Toys 'R' Us exclusive line, which may help extend its profitability, but it's doubtful that any sort of "constraction renaissance" is anywhere in the immediate forecast.

And it's worth bearing in mind that while it's the LEGO Group's interest to keep a category going for as long as they can squeeze a profit out of it, they are not so invested in maintaining a "hierarchy" of themes and categories. Bionicle was their bread and butter back in the early naughts, and while they obviously want to keep getting as much out of it as they can, they're not going to pour any more money into it than its current state can justify just because of what it once did for them. Same goes for Castle. Of course they're going to try and put their best foot forward with each new release, but their concern is where the theme is now, not where it was when its popularity was at its peak. Sometimes the tastes of kids just change, and investing more in something kids just don't care for like they used to isn't necessarily a realistic concern.

Remember, this is the company that was prepared to bail on Ninjago and move onto the next thing after two and a half years (a fairly normal lifespan for even a successful LEGO theme), prior to realizing just how much momentum it had left. Ninjago may have been the most successful new product launch of all time in 2011, supposedly it briefly even sold better than LEGO Star Wars (!), but the LEGO Group would not invest more in it until they were assured that they were going to get more out of it — and even then, they built it back up cautiously, with the 2014 revival marking its smallest TV season and its second smallest range of sets (just eight episodes and nine sets, versus 26 episodes and 37 sets back in 2012).

The LEGO Group still takes risks, but ever since coming back from the brink of bankruptcy they take calculated risks — no more huge upfront investments in a theme unless its immediate forerunners have sold well enough to justify that kind of confidence. Setting aside the question of whether or not Nexo Knights is a part of the LEGO Castle category, there's no doubt it would not be nearly as big as it is if it could not trace its bloodline back to other media-driven "big bang" themes like Legends of Chima and Ninjago which help substantiate those ambitions — and even then, the Nexo Knights launch wave of 28 retail sets is humble compared to Chima's launch wave of 37 retail sets, showing that the LEGO Group has tempered their expectations after Chima failed to live up to all of the lofty sales projections made prior to its launch. This is how it goes. Themes that sell well (like Nexo Knights) result in higher expectations and a bigger upfront investment for whatever is expected to follow in their footsteps, while themes that don't sell quite so well (like Legends of Chima) result in lower expectations and a smaller upfront investment for their successors.

It can be frustrating for all of us who bear witness to the rise and fall of our preferred themes (someday even Ninjago might go the way of the LEGO Dino, though judging from its recent track record that probably won't be for several years). But how popular a theme can become often depends on factors that are out of the LEGO Group's control. Making all themes Ninjago-sized or Chima-sized or City-sized is not a guarantee that they will have similar sales — the bigger the product range, the higher the risk, and as you can see just by comparing Chima and Ninjago, a bigger risk doesn't always mean a bigger reward.

Sorry for rambling. I hope I haven't bored you.

Edited July 4, 2016 by Aanchir

[Artanis I]

As far as I'm concerned, there is not much being released this year that appeals to me. I prefer a traditional/medieval style of Castle sets so NK is mostly (very) disappointing for me. There's no Space theme happening these days, Ninjago is too big (I was into it at the start) and City has never really interested me so the only theme I'm really paying any attention to (I tend to avoid licenced themes if possible) is Star Wars, some of which is Space-y. The minidoll lines (particularly Elves) are nice but too big for me to get into without creating a new wallet/storage space issue. I just wish that Elves had been the new Castle line...

For me 2016 is disappointing, but cheaper!

[Lyichir]

As far as I'm concerned, there is not much being released this year that appeals to me. I prefer a traditional/medieval style of Castle sets so NK is mostly (very) disappointing for me. There's no Space theme happening these days, Ninjago is too big (I was into it at the start) and City has never really interested me so the only theme I'm really paying any attention to (I tend to avoid licenced themes if possible) is Star Wars, some of which is Space-y. The minidoll lines (particularly Elves) are nice but too big for me to get into without creating a new wallet/storage space issue. I just wish that Elves had been the new Castle line...

For me 2016 is disappointing, but cheaper!

I'm a little surprised that you consider the Elves theme "too big to get into". I considered Elves a fairly small theme in general, with only eight non-polybag sets last year and ten non-polybag sets this year. But looking at the numbers I suppose that while that's small compared to a lot of the other themes I'm interested in (Ninjago, Nexo Knights, Bionicle) and definitely small compared to some of Lego's other highly successful evergreen themes (City, Friends, Star Wars), it actually could be considered larger than themes like the 2013 Castle (5 sets in its first year) or 2010 Kingdoms (7 sets in its first year, minus polybags and battle packs).

Still, I'd think that if you were only interested in Castle-like sets you could still limit an Elves collection to a sampling of the sets. There have really only been two actual "castles" so far (last year's Sky Castle and this year's Shadow Castle, though you might also count the small guard tower in the Queen Dragon's Rescue or the slightly larger Dragon Sanctuary), and even if you're interested in more village-like architecture there's still only a few sets that really qualify (last year's Magical Bakery and this year's Dragon School, Starlight Inn, and Secret Market Place).

[Artanis I]

Well actually I was mostly just lumping it in with a statement about Friends, however I don't just consider how big a wave is, but also the ongoing aspect of a theme when I consider how "big" a theme is. That's why I pulled out of Ninjago early, it's just gone on and on with heaps of sets and new characters year after year. Friends is a similar sort of thing. With Elves, there aren't a lot of sets but it seems to me that it will keep going on for a while, and they've started the "collect all dragons" thing again. That said I have had a look at the sets and picked a few out, and if not for the fact that it sold out before I got to it, I'd have bought Skyra's castle last week when Kmart clearanced it.

[wgemini]

No, there are other reasons for that.

Ninjago is unappealing to me. Not a fan of the sky pirates, though I do like the green / brown color scheme.

I am not a fan of what City has been doing lately. I do like a lot of things in the Fun in the Park set, though.

I never liked Bionicle, constraction doesn't really feel like LEGO.

Star Wars is a little weak if you're like me and prefer locations to ships. That said, the ships are looking good.

Minecraft is great, if you're into that kind of thing. I'd buy them for parts if the price per part wasn't so high.

Angry Birds is a pile of garbage.

There isn't much in the Superheroes themes for me to get too excited about, except minifigures that I can buy on BrickLink.

Elves is great, except for the minidolls, and I much prefer molded dragons to buildable ones.

I never collected architecture because most are not in minifigure scale.

Creator sets aren't that great, except the Expert series of modular buildings.

Ghostbusters has nothing for me. As much as I am a fan of Ghostbusters 1 & 2, I'm not a superfan willing to spend that much money on it.

I think I went through just about every theme with sets this year. I have my own reasons for being disappointed with this year. Mostly, though, the Pirates and Castle sets are what bring me to the store. The others are supplementary, and I buy them occasionally. Without Pirates and Castle sets this year, it's easy to be disappointed.

I think the Vacation Getaways set is probably one of the best 3 in 1 ever being three completely different models . I'd even say it's one of the best camper and best yacht ever. The tree house was surprisingly good and light house was quite different with modular design. The helicopter was also good with linked rotors. So I'd say the summer 2016 creator line up has been extremely good.

I don't think somebody needs to be a ghostbuster fan to enjoy the firehouse headquarter, arguable one of the best fire buildings ever, although super expensive (PPP is good though). The two cars were quite nice too.

[TeufelHund]

This has been my cheapest year since coming full time out of my Dark Ages in 2010. I've literally made more money selling Lego than I've spent on it this year! Like many here my favourite lines are the Historical settings like Pirates, Castle and Western, although I also enjoy Superheroes and Star Wars. Apart from a few SW sets there's been nothing to celebrate so far this year. I was looking forward to the Classic Batcave and Assault on Hoth, but both were a big letdown (although the Batcave minifigs are nice). I guess the Ghostbusters HQ is a good set, but I'm not so much of a fan that I'd splash out that kind of money. Same with Big Ben. I already have a Death Star so the new version will have to be amazing to peak my interest.

I guess next year I'll see if my interest is revitalised or if it's in terminal decline.

Edited July 6, 2016 by TeufelHund

[mispeled]

I am also disappointed that Nexo Knights is considered a Castle theme by Lego, because I can't stand the blue/orange color scheme and the rocket horses. Since there is no real castle theme I've been picking up the Elves stuff and a few of the Nexo villain sets.

Overall, I feel like the last couple of waves of Castle have been uninspired, since Fantasy, really. I would like to see Castle come back, but with more inspired set design. Where is the Volcano castle? The Ice Castle? The Treehouse Castle? I feel like there are so many more interesting things they can still do without the scifi elements beyond the same sets (big castle, tower, carriage, horse cart, skirmish) that a castle wave usually entails.

The exciting thing about Ninjago, Elves, and some Nexo now is better designs - if/when they relaunch Castle they need to shake it up like that.

[Robert8]

Can we lock this thread now?

#cinderellacastle

Edited July 8, 2016 by Robert8

[x105Black]

Can we lock this thread now?

#cinderellacastle

What are you saying? That the Disney Castle makes up for all of the other disappointments? It's a very nice set, but I don't agree.

[Mabes]

As a longtime fan of Castle/LotR and Star Wars (mainly OT), yeah this has been a disappointing year of Lego. The escape pod, resistance X-wing & troop transport, and some battlepacks were the only highlights... as well as the Classic Castle promo set.

[PicnicBasketSam]

I don't like this "Nexo Knights isn't Castle, so everything else is crap" or "There's no Castle/Pirates, so everything else is crap" sort of negative generalizations. There are plenty of terrific sets this year, and a few themes with very few bad sets at all (Marvel, Elves, Creator, Ninjago, Technic).

[Del]

For us, a year is considered good if we have an excellent modular, a great winter village set, and one other wonderful build. Anything else is a bonus. So with the Brick Bank, and Big Ben already out, we are two thirds of the way there. Hopefully the winter train works in our favour. Ghostbusters Firehouse Headquarters was the bonus. So not bad at all.

[BimmerBoy]

There's tons of great stuff, there's also a fair amount of boring and/or poor sets. 2016 has been good enough for me. I have not spent as much as I have in previous years, but the sets I did buy I'm very pleased with.

The people who like the classic themes (pirates/castle/space) need to realize those themes just don't sell too well these days. The last attempt at Space (Galaxy Squad) bombed. The last Pirates and Castle did not fare much better.

As mentioned above, Lego should consider revamping those themes into upper end themes instead of City-style play themes. Think nicer, better detailed sets of Medieval Market Village and Modular caliber. Add in a few smaller sets with well-designed vehicles/buildings. They need to bring back the higher quality Chess sets, too.

[x105Black]

I don't like this "Nexo Knights isn't Castle, so everything else is crap" or "There's no Castle/Pirates, so everything else is crap" sort of negative generalizations. There are plenty of terrific sets this year, and a few themes with very few bad sets at all (Marvel, Elves, Creator, Ninjago, Technic).

It all depends on what your interests are. I'm not that big a fan of Marvel (aside from minifigures), Elves, Creator, Ninjago, or Technic. Those don't appeal to me, so to me they are crap every year. That's just my opinion (and it seems others share it).

Lego should consider revamping those themes into upper end themes instead of City-style play themes. Think nicer, better detailed sets of Medieval Market Village and Modular caliber. Add in a few smaller sets with well-designed vehicles/buildings.

100% agree.