Limited distribution of 21021

[Brizio]

Ok, everybody relax and stop talking about each other and focus on the issue at hand. Otherwise I'll close this thread.

And I'm waiting for an answer from TLG but I guess the holidays slows down that process a bit!

@ CopMike: did you ever get any answer from TLG on the subject? I've already placed my order for the set anyway but I am still interested in the official statement.

[CopMike]

So I got an answer back, but sadly it doesn´t really give any hard facts why:

I have been told that most of our products go through a selling-in phase where the markets buy-in and decide on a certain amount of sets for their region.

This could have affected the amount of sets produced.

This set is also a limited run, done for a special reason. Which means it might not have been calculated as part of the production runs.

This could have affected the amount of sets produced.

The set (model) is very regional and not as global as for example The White House or The Eiffel Tower.

This could also have affected the amount of sets produced.

Fact is that less than 10.000 copies were made for various reasons that might include the above mentioned factors.

[Legogal]

Thanks for posting the reply. Maybe there really is no clear reason or we will never know if there is one for making so few copies. How about we just let this &(:/;)$&@)(:/;)/@$/ question go to bed for a long sleep?

Mine finally arrived from Hong Kong, and it is an impressive small build that took more brain cells than I had available at the time. After at least a dozen building mistakes and pulling as many parts out of my own stock, it looked pretty darn good to me and the family. Phew! I had serious doubts while building it and definitely erred thinking I could finish it in an hour.

[DrJB]

I have not read the whole thread ... but here is another point of view. I bet there are not many people who have heard of Marina Bay BEFORE it showed up in Lego. Also, like the Burj Dubai, Seattle Needle, or other sets, those only hold a 'special' value to those who have visited the place or want to. I bet the 'masses' (i.e., NOT Lego Collectors) would not care much about the Burj Dubai, Marina Bay, or Sydney's Opera House. That, IMHO, explains possibly why such sets are issued in limited quantities... Who, in New York City, has visited Singapore (Marina Bay) and wants a replica of the iconic towers?

[Vee]

I respectfully do not agree with the "not well known" argument. For me, it is all about being a beautiful set or not, it does not matter what it represents. For instance, Parisian Restaurant, it doesn't matter that it is not a famous French restaurant, it is a set, it is beautiful, it is part of the theme, it fits well the theme, people (that agrees with me, that it is beautiful) will want it. I saw an Architecture set, some Korean or Asian thing that I had never heard of before, instantly I got hooked to its beauty, read Wikipedia about the landmark and it would be in my wish list (but it is retired and I don't even know if it was available in the US).

How many times have you discovered some new beautiful place in this big Earth that upon seeing it the first time you already want to visit it (if you had the resources $$$)? It is the same with Lego.

... we will never know if there is one for making so few copies. How about we just let this &(:/;)$&@)(:/;)/@$/ question go to bed for a long sleep?...

Agreed. With Lego, it is better never to try to explain. Accept it or leave it.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Vee

[CopMike]

I have not read the whole thread ... but here is another point of view. I bet there are not many people who have heard of Marina Bay BEFORE it showed up in Lego. Also, like the Burj Dubai, Seattle Needle, or other sets, those only hold a 'special' value to those who have visited the place or want to. I bet the 'masses' (i.e., NOT Lego Collectors) would not care much about the Burj Dubai, Marina Bay, or Sydney's Opera House. That, IMHO, explains possibly why such sets are issued in limited quantities... Who, in New York City, has visited Singapore (Marina Bay) and wants a replica of the iconic towers?

Well, I hadn´t heard about Sungnyemun before it came as an Architecture set.

Agreed. With Lego, it is better never to try to explain. Accept it or leave it.

Personal rant on: My feelings are that you´re the most "half-empty"-glass person I´ve ever come across here in the forums.

I wonder why you even bother collecting/building/using Lego. Personal rant off.

I still give them the benefit of trying to explain stuff. If they succed each time? No! But I can live with that.

[Vee]

... you´re the most "half-empty"-glass person I´ve ever come across here in the forums....

I am not, as a principle of life, until something gives me reason to be, then, for this something, I will mostly ever be.

I collect them because I like them and as I said, I accept Lego as it is, for now, despite having strong reserves against their business model and all that is bad that comes with it.

In other words, I don't trust Lego, but I like their toys enough to let it go.

Edited January 19, 2014 by Vee

[rollermonkey]

I'd say the White House is as 'regional' as this is. I don't see it as some fantastic work of architecture.

The regional buy-in concept is probably the biggest factor on this one. If the honchos in TLG-Europe or TLG-N. America didn't think it would sell in those areas, and didn't ask for an allocation, bam. We're done.

And as for notability? I'd wager that Farnsworth House is less notable than this one, being a massive structure in a world-class city. I lived in Illinois for a few years and had no idea Farnsworth existed, even though I knew where Robie House is and even where Fallingwater's middle-of-nowhere location is.

[Vee]

I also had never heard of Farnsworth, Robie House and Fallingwater before Lego. And I did buy Farnsworth. And I _had_ heard and seen the Marina Bay Sands before Lego. Well, I am not American, was not raised here, so that may explain my ignorance on these "landmarks".

[WhiteFang]

So I got an answer back, but sadly it doesn´t really give any hard facts why:

CopMike, thank you for following up on this matter. It does not really give much insight as in 'why', but one thing that they have confirmed is the limited production of less than 10k sets... Sigh, and I still don't see this set anymore in local retail stores.

[Faefrost]

CopMike, thank you for following up on this matter. It does not really give much insight as in 'why', but one thing that they have confirmed is the limited production of less than 10k sets... Sigh, and I still don't see this set anymore in local retail stores.

It probably got scooped up by a small number of cagey speculators who are then dumping it on ebay and similar sites.

Cop Mike, actually that little bit of info you got back does give some ideas as to why it might not have been produced globally. Nothing definitive, but it is doubtful the community reps would ever really know the answer.

- "Regional Buy In", we tend to think of TLG as a single entity with all decisions coming from Billund. This is I'm sure not 100% correct. They are a global company, which typically means that each sales region operates semi autonomously. Billund decides what to make and sell. The Region's determine how much of what will sell in their area and at what prices. (This is why the pricing in US, Europe and Australia are ultimately completely unrelated. The prices are set by different business entities. Billund just gives final approvals for regional actions.) In the case of this set they may have had high interest from the East Asian Region and no interest whatsoever from North America or Europe. As it result they may have opted to do a short limited run for the East Asian region only.

- Like CuuSoo this was designed to be some sort of special limited run to begin with. That plus the lack of western sales region interest probably triggered the very small region specific run that we got. They were planning on a small 10-20k run. Asia had high interest and wanted at least 10k. NA and EU looked at it and wanted at best minimal orders, so they just focused it on Asia.

[DrJB]

I'd say the White House is as 'regional' as this is. I don't see it as some fantastic work of architecture.

The regional buy-in concept is probably the biggest factor on this one. If the honchos in TLG-Europe or TLG-N. America didn't think it would sell in those areas, and didn't ask for an allocation, bam. We're done.

And as for notability? I'd wager that Farnsworth House is less notable than this one, being a massive structure in a world-class city. I lived in Illinois for a few years and had no idea Farnsworth existed, even though I knew where Robie House is and even where Fallingwater's middle-of-nowhere location is.

I am curious to see how many of those 'regional' sets sold across the globe. I bet the white house sold more in the US ... Burj Dubai sold more in the UAE, ... etc.

Then again, some on here disagree, but keep in mind that not everyone who buys those landmarks is an avid lego collector. Few years ago in Chicago, you could not get ALL the small architecture sets. I recall asking specifically for the Seattle needle and others, and the answer I got from the salesperson at the Lego store, was that such sets were very 'regional'...

Edited January 20, 2014 by DrJB

[roamingstop]

Having once been in Bad Aibling hotel at same time as German sales team meet up (Lego bricks everywhere) I can easily understand a "regional" setup - whereby sales targets are discussed and response to other products are compared.

Did Sungymen sell well outside of its target market? If not then perhaps the cost to bring to market out weighed the benefits; and more shelf space can be given to fast movers and higher turnover

It is a pity that more sales via the exclusive tab of their website were not allowed - but again it will be a production run / shipping issue. If all the production were shipped en/masse to Singapore then it makes international distribution much more expensive.

In the end there will be some people in TLG who know the answer and some people scratching their heads but compared to the high volumes of other sets it's probably a storm in a teacup to them (although big deal for collectors).

[zux]

Below is not personally to Vee:

I also had never heard of Farnsworth, Robie House and Fallingwater before Lego. And I did buy Farnsworth. And I _had_ heard and seen the Marina Bay Sands before Lego. Well, I am not American, was not raised here, so that may explain my ignorance on these "landmarks".

I just don't get it why people collect Architecure series not even knowing the subject. It looks really strange when people blame TLG for releasing "never known before' landmark. I'm not the fan of a series, but didn't know some of initially released sets, new ones - are obviously well known. The funny thing is even when you don't know what it is, you still NEED IT. Something is not right.

[Herky]

Thanks CopMike...unfortunately this didn't answer the question at all though, OTW was really asking why was this set part of the Architecture series? Not why was it limited to only 10K. His argument is that the Architecture series is thought to be a global series just like City or the Town Modulars or the Lego Movie.

personal rant on that one, I would like to see all the posts on TLM be moved to their own main topic, I can see how it is a special theme, but I am thinking we will see TLM2 so feel like it needs it's own space.

In any case, back to the point...to put in a limited edition (and they even acknowledge it is a LE) in a global series and then follow it up with another one right behind it (Lego House) is basically saying OK Lego fans of Arch series, collect them all (which is stated on the box) EXCEPT these 2, cause we won't let you get those unless you have a lot of money. TLG never said anything about that at all.

OTW's point is that it is fine for TLG to produce those, but please do them one off as LE's or special sets and NOT part of the series for those of us who want to get the whole series but don't have the ability to finish it off since 21021 and Lego House are sold only in 2 places in the world. Do NOT give them Arch series box styles and set numbers for this reason. Hopefully this makes sense.

[Faefrost]

I also had never heard of Farnsworth, Robie House and Fallingwater before Lego. And I did buy Farnsworth. And I _had_ heard and seen the Marina Bay Sands before Lego. Well, I am not American, was not raised here, so that may explain my ignorance on these "landmarks".

Those three buildings are more known specifically for there impact on Architecture, than they are known as famous landmarks. They are specifically known for who designed them and how they were designed. Falling Water and Robie House are THE famous Frank Lloyd Wright buildings that are extensively taught to architects. So they are really the heart and soul of Lego's Architecture line (created by architects for architects and those interested in architecture). More so than the more "famous landmark" type buildings. An example from the extreme end of the Landmark side would be the UN. A famous building that is generally viewed as an architectural abomination, and scores high on the "how not to do it list". Right next to that British building that melts cars.

[Vee]

Those three buildings are more known specifically for there impact on Architecture, than they are known as famous landmarks. They are specifically known for who designed them and how they were designed. Falling Water and Robie House are THE famous Frank Lloyd Wright buildings that are extensively taught to architects. So they are really the heart and soul of Lego's Architecture line (created by architects for architects and those interested in architecture). More so than the more "famous landmark" type buildings. An example from the extreme end of the Landmark side would be the UN. A famous building that is generally viewed as an architectural abomination, and scores high on the "how not to do it list". Right next to that British building that melts cars.

Oh, ok, that makes sense. Since I am not an architect (I am an engineer) what I see in a Lego set is: is it pretty, is it not? If it is pretty, then I may buy it. We have, or had, a famous architect in Brazil. Oscar Niemeyer, and, to be honest, in my layman eyes, I can't like almost anything that he designed. Too much design, too little practicality. But the guy is very famous, at least in Brazil; he designed our capital city where I happened to live for many years.

[Faefrost]

Oh, ok, that makes sense. Since I am not an architect (I am an engineer) what I see in a Lego set is: is it pretty, is it not? If it is pretty, then I may buy it. We have, or had, a famous architect in Brazil. Oscar Niemeyer, and, to be honest, in my layman eyes, I can't like almost anything that he designed. Too much design, too little practicality. But the guy is very famous, at least in Brazil; he designed our capital city where I happened to live for many years.

Practicality or functionality? In Architecture? What are you some sort of radical weirdo? Buildings are supposed to flow and sweep and inspire deep feelings in viewers... Like confusion, as they wonder where the architect hid the toilets this time. You should not be troubling yourself with such pedantic concerns as the roof not leaking or the windows not taking flight in a moderate breeze. Pay no attention to the exploding cars in the parking lot! It's ART!

[Vee]

Oh, ok, sorry, my mistake, you are absolutely right! :laugh:

If there is one thing that I am is practical. I hate form over function.

[Herky]

faefrost, I almost fell off the chair, that's hilarious...one of my good friends owns a cleaning company and his complaint is always about the architects that forget the rooms that holds the supplies, they put it in the dungeon when it is needed on the top floor and such...great post

[JGW3000]

One aspect of this puzzles me - considering the investment in time, resources, personnel, etc. that goes into developing a set, why wouldn't TLG try to maximize its profit by at least making the set available at S&H; they would probably eek out a few extra 1000's in sales this way. Unless they have an agreement to limit the number of sales. I guess we will never know. Similarly, why aren't the 2014 Technic sets available in NA? (But that's a discussion for another topic )

[dr_spock]

Oh, ok, that makes sense. Since I am not an architect (I am an engineer) what I see in a Lego set is: is it pretty, is it not? If it is pretty, then I may buy it. We have, or had, a famous architect in Brazil. Oscar Niemeyer, and, to be honest, in my layman eyes, I can't like almost anything that he designed. Too much design, too little practicality. But the guy is very famous, at least in Brazil; he designed our capital city where I happened to live for many years.

What kind of engineer are you? When I took civil engineering, it was the civil engineer's job to make sure the architect's design doesn't collapse.

[Vee]

I am an Electrical Engineer, above 12 volts .

Yes, I remember while I was in the university, we engineers used to joke about architects, that they don't care if it is feasible or not, they create their designs and hand them to us and we have to do the magic.

[dodo]

perhaps, this is a new marketing strategy. maybe they got the conclusion that this is : "more regional hence limited productions" based on their past experiences and sales record of the other iconic buildings on the architecture line such as burj khalifa, etc.

maybe this is the first of many? who knows next time they start adding for example the Sagrada Familia in Spain, and make it a limited edition, available in Europe only?

Just maybe....

my 2 cents.

[Legogal]

dodo,

Sagrada?!!!! Put me down for ten please. One of the most outstanding buildings in the world for sure! Enough curves to give a LEGO designer a heart attack!