Just curious, has Horizon Express been successful?

[LegoSjaak]

I'm still waiting to get 2 of these

Maybe you should buy two... i never got a set... always had to pay for it...

[ronenson]

Funny, your post is the only post mentioning of using only one set, and even in this post you refer to it as a half-set, instead of one set.

Lego has definitely been able to convince everyone you really should be buying 2 sets.

You could get away with one if you remodel it like the TGV La Poste. I think the postal train could run with one engine in half-set configuration.

[dr_spock]

Funny, your post is the only post mentioning of using only one set, and even in this post you refer to it as a half-set, instead of one set.

Lego has definitely been able to convince everyone you really should be buying 2 sets.

I suppose I can try to build that TGV special end bogie and run one HE set with it. Which is really a half-set in TGV terminology.

It would be nice if Lego could sell an engine separately.

[SnapLock]

I wasn't a fan of the He when it first came out and never really looked into buying it, Until about 3 months ago there was a sale at my local toy shop and i was itching for a new train so decided to take the plunge and just buy it.

Im glad i did,

Until you have seen the He built and running yourself no pictures or videos on the net do it justice.

its a great Train & i was really surprised that after building it i actually really liked it, & to think i wasn't even going to buy it.

[zephyr1934]

The other point that applies to all markets is that this particular train needs 2 sets to get the other end. This makes the 6-car train heavy and we get the to the point of needing 2 motors and going beyond the instructions. How old does a fan have to be to be able to fit the 2nd motor to the front loco of the train and add 1x2 tiles to the couplings to stop them pulling apart? Some 8-year-olds would be smart enough, but not all.

...

I have even higher expectations because I am a professional engineer and have also helped develop and test PF parts. This meant I was able to influence the design of the light brick and ensure the train motor torque was sufficient to make it a successor to the 9V motor, not weak like the RC motor. This means I really want PF trains to work well as a system and be reliable and successful in their engineering. Sadly I was not involved with the more recent parts or I might have detected the servo problems!

...

On the Shop At Home website the HE has the Exclusive tag. If it is an Exclusive set then it means no discounts even for staff. I like that the lone ranger train has the driving wheels - it means they are still available till we get another steam train int he trains theme.

I would welcome a train with some changeability, but the real trains of different continents should be studied properly to ensure that such a set truly addresses the key features of both - the likeness has to be good for all customers, like having an "A" side and and "AA" side on a music chart single.

I like that the PF train motor is able to pull heavier trains per motor (and I was glad to press the point with TLG during its development) but you have revealed the problem - the overheating IR Receiver indicates that you should use one v1 receiver per train motor. A v2 receiver can power 2 train motors, just as it powers 2 L-motors in the Crawler. Too slow means you have either too few motors, too few IR Receivers or low batteries. The system is modular so that we can build in enough of each element. The problem for AFOL trains is getting all the elements to work together when we need to power several motors. We need a slave motor driver so that a single IR Receiver can control several motors. The driver would have the same motor driver chip as the v2 receiver, take a motor drive signal as its C1/C2 input and replicate it on the output with fresh power from the 9V and 0V lines.

Mark

All very good points indeed. And yes, I would have to agree with you that having to go off the instruction sheet to get the train to actually work is definitely a failure (especially after having to pay $500 for all the parts to start from scratch no less). That will just turn people away from our hobby. Though I'm not sure that is anything new, the Maersk has a ton of drag in the trucks, one train motor can barely pull the two cars it comes with. Then all of the minor problems in the EN. Then there was that HP train with the three axle tender that would not go around curves, then there was the pilot on the BNSF that has a fraction of a mm clearance, then there was the underpowered (well, missing weight bricks) for the Super Chief. So I am not starting with high expectations. I am just glad to see train sets at all.

In the ambassador forums I kept arguing that lego had to lower the entry barriers... little or no impact, but I also said that the train folks needed certain parts to be in production and a lot of them did wind up in production... though I have no idea if that is purely coincidental.

Detected, "the servo problems"??? Could you expand on that (probably in a new thread) or point to a link that tells more?

Yes, HE is a S@H exclusive... except you can also buy it direct from Amazon and a few other online retailers and Lego nixed these retailers from offering sales. So it is an exclusive that isn't so exclusive.

To do the "creator" build-a-train-for-your-continent right given the current design cycles, lego would probably have to do the hobby train again. Too bad that tanked for secondary reasons (all the special parts could be bought individually at PAB, no rare colors, had to use LDD to see the other instructions, then the discontinued magnets).

I like the slave motor driver... though I doubt lego will be making that any time soon. I just wish they had a simple controller that you could say "go to run 4" so that if one IR receiver missed the signal at first, you could still get two or more synchronized. It can be done... just takes a lot of hacking.

[Cwetqo]

By saying that its "exclusive" he just meant that it difficult to get it with discount, since TLG limited discounts on "exclusive" items. And the fact is that this IS a very expensive train and I personally think that it was not so succesfull.

I would also like to know more about "servo problems".

[domboy]

Then there was that HP train with the three axle tender that would not go around curves

Sorry to go slightly off-topic... are you talking about the tender in 10132 Motorized Hogwarts?? How bad is it? I assumed that since it was an official set this three axle arrangement must be ok, but I have not tested it extensively in real bricks (was working on a tender in LDD based on it). Does it not work at all, or is it just not ideal?

[codefox421]

Sorry to go slightly off-topic... are you talking about the tender in 10132 Motorized Hogwarts?? How bad is it? I assumed that since it was an official set this three axle arrangement must be ok, but I have not tested it extensively in real bricks (was working on a tender in LDD based on it). Does it not work at all, or is it just not ideal?

You could always use a sliding middle wheel solution.

.ldr

This has worked for me in the past, even with longer wheelbases.

On topic:

I'm hoping the HE is successful enough for LEGO to produce more sets like it in the future. I've lately been trying to focus solely on usefulness for MOCing when considering to buy a new set. I also like the look of 7-wide and am trying to keep my future builds exclusively in this scale.

The HE seriously tempts me to go against these resolutions.

Edited October 22, 2013 by codefox421

[domboy]

You could always use a sliding middle wheel solution.

This has worked for me in the past, even with longer wheelbases.

Awesome, thanks for posting this! I was actually mulling over the possibility of such a solution, but hadn't worked it out yet... you probably saved me a whole bunch of time. :)

[Hrw-Amen]

I think they are selling rather well in the UK. I know when I bought mine I had to go back the next day as they had sold out. I got two of them and set it up with two PF motors in the leading loco, it then has plenty of power and as it is all in the same unit operated by the same IR unit there are no issues with them running at different speeds.

It did take a lot of effort and rejigging the interior bits to fit it all in though. The polarity switch for the second motor was a real issue, but I have managed it and it works a treat now it is all there.

I would like another carriage or two at some point, but at the moment those orange bases are still quite pricey on Bricklink and I do not want to buy a whole new set again. I may try and build one in a different color at some point.

[zephyr1934]

Sorry to go slightly off-topic... are you talking about the tender in 10132 Motorized Hogwarts?? How bad is it? I assumed that since it was an official set this three axle arrangement must be ok, but I have not tested it extensively in real bricks (was working on a tender in LDD based on it). Does it not work at all, or is it just not ideal?

And apologies for feeding the off topic fire (though a little conversation isn't a bad thing). Yes, that's the one, although out of all of the train set problems I listed in my last post, in fairness, this one probably wasn't lego's fault. As I have heard the story, the studio said the tender HAD to have three axles, and the studio didn't care if it could not go around curves.

The sliding center axle is a good solution (or even simpler, one of my favorite tricks, just put the wheel holder in without an axle), but this all gets back to Mark's point, if the set does not work out of the box following the instructions, you have just lost 70% of the people and pissed them off.

[ritzcrackerman]

Funny, your post is the only post mentioning of using only one set, and even in this post you refer to it as a half-set, instead of one set.

Lego has definitely been able to convince everyone you really should be buying 2 sets.

Reading this post has made me want to buy a second one! I have been on temporary boycott since the recent exclusives policy change, but it truly needs a second set to make it look right.

[LegoSjaak]

Reading this post has made me want to buy a second one! I have been on temporary boycott since the recent exclusives policy change, but it truly needs a second set to make it look right.

True, it needs a second set..else it is simply not complete... Yesterday i sold the locomotive of my third Horizon Express to a guy who had given one set to his son of 7 years old. His son was disappointed with the train as it did not have a back..... The guy was lucky to bump into my Locomotive, as i bought the third set to have 2 extra passengercarriages.. Now his son is glad with having a 4-piece Horizon Express, and i am glad with my 8-piece Horizon Express.. sometimes life is simple! For Eur 33,25 is sold it to him.. guess that is reasonable for a Eur 109,99 Eur set... as it is about one-third of the total set....

Greetz, LegoSjaak

[timmyc1983]

For Eur 33,25 is sold it to him.. guess that is reasonable for a Eur 109,99 Eur set... as it is about one-third of the total set....

Greetz, LegoSjaak

33.25 Euros is an extremely good price for just the loco, given the locos are selling for $70+ (50+ Euros) on Bricklink....

I very recently bought my HE from S@H and it was shipped to me in 6 days, so no issue with anything being sold out there, although some months from release.

I would dearly love to be able to afford a second set to complete the train but I can't, and also can't afford to put any motors in it at the moment... I agree it's a very expensive train but I don't think that has stopped people from buying one or more of them....

It's just so pretty...

[LegoSjaak]

33.25 Euros is an extremely good price for just the loco, given the locos are selling for $70+ (50+ Euros) on Bricklink....

I very recently bought my HE from S@H and it was shipped to me in 6 days, so no issue with anything being sold out there, although some months from release.

I would dearly love to be able to afford a second set to complete the train but I can't, and also can't afford to put any motors in it at the moment... I agree it's a very expensive train but I don't think that has stopped people from buying one or more of them....

It's just so pretty...

Timmy, it was indeed a good price, but i had my luck with that set already, as i could buy a whole set, new in box for Eur 82,50 incl post and package... so i did not have to ask to much fot that loco...

[domboy]

And apologies for feeding the off topic fire (though a little conversation isn't a bad thing). Yes, that's the one, although out of all of the train set problems I listed in my last post, in fairness, this one probably wasn't lego's fault. As I have heard the story, the studio said the tender HAD to have three axles, and the studio didn't care if it could not go around curves.

The sliding center axle is a good solution (or even simpler, one of my favorite tricks, just put the wheel holder in without an axle), but this all gets back to Mark's point, if the set does not work out of the box following the instructions, you have just lost 70% of the people and pissed them off.

Sorry again for the off-topic, but thanks a bunch for explaining the back story!

[Brickthus]

All very good points indeed. And yes, I would have to agree with you that having to go off the instruction sheet to get the train to actually work is definitely a failure (especially after having to pay $500 for all the parts to start from scratch no less). That will just turn people away from our hobby. Though I'm not sure that is anything new, the Maersk has a ton of drag in the trucks, one train motor can barely pull the two cars it comes with. Then all of the minor problems in the EN. Then there was that HP train with the three axle tender that would not go around curves, then there was the pilot on the BNSF that has a fraction of a mm clearance, then there was the underpowered (well, missing weight bricks) for the Super Chief. So I am not starting with high expectations. I am just glad to see train sets at all.

In the ambassador forums I kept arguing that lego had to lower the entry barriers... little or no impact, but I also said that the train folks needed certain parts to be in production and a lot of them did wind up in production... though I have no idea if that is purely coincidental.

Detected, "the servo problems"??? Could you expand on that (probably in a new thread) or point to a link that tells more?

Yes, HE is a S@H exclusive... except you can also buy it direct from Amazon and a few other online retailers and Lego nixed these retailers from offering sales. So it is an exclusive that isn't so exclusive.

To do the "creator" build-a-train-for-your-continent right given the current design cycles, lego would probably have to do the hobby train again. Too bad that tanked for secondary reasons (all the special parts could be bought individually at PAB, no rare colors, had to use LDD to see the other instructions, then the discontinued magnets).

I like the slave motor driver... though I doubt lego will be making that any time soon. I just wish they had a simple controller that you could say "go to run 4" so that if one IR receiver missed the signal at first, you could still get two or more synchronized. It can be done... just takes a lot of hacking.

Yes, unfortunately there have been problems with most of the AFOL-aimed train sets, usually revolving around coupling strength, friction or underpowering. Once we move beyond toy trains i.e. ready-to-run sets with lighter panels and POOP where bricks would do, we have to redesign the traction scheme to make decent trains, including adhesion weight and number of powered axles. Most of my diesels have 2 powered bogies so the HE with 2 motors follows the same principle. At least the HE loco is heavier than the coaches so the bias of weight towards traction is right, leaving just the trailing loco as being a bit heavy. Real trains have locos around 130 tonnes and half of that is the bogie weight. 12V trains had the weight blocks to help with adhesion; I find them a bit puny with larger trains but they have been useful for the new monorail.

The servo problems - quality issues including one AFOL report of a Servo motor moving to +180 and -45 degrees rather than +/-90 degrees - have meant that the Servo motor and L-motor have not been released as single part sets 88004 and 88003 as was promised for March 2013. After repeated requests to Customer Service, including a missed date of September 2013, I'm still waiting for a new release date; my current expectation is around March 2014. The release of the dark blue Crawler 41999 didn't help the stock levels. At the moment they are "coming soon" to the US and Canada but there is no news of UK, EU or RoW release. The reason this is important to trains is that I have found them to be ideal point motors. They have electronic end stops, so there is no need for white clutch gears as I used previously with gearmotors. They are something we have wanted for ages and they can't come soon enough, except that the quality has to be right. Unfortunately over the years new motors have had as many problems as AFOL-aimed train sets. Motor reliability issues are worse for TLG; train sets can be fixed by AFOL hacking so they don't need replacing!

A bit ironic that we have lots more motors to choose from with Power Functions but fewer train sets to choose from compared to 1982's 12V selection. Decoupling as a train function has moved onboard with PF, replacing the old 7862 set, but it is unlikely to appear in a train out of the box. Functionality is what AFOLs call play value

Mark

[zephyr1934]

Yes, unfortunately there have been problems with most of the AFOL-aimed train sets, usually revolving around coupling strength, friction or underpowering. ...

The servo problems - quality issues including one AFOL report of a Servo motor moving to +180 and -45 degrees rather than +/-90 degrees - ... At the moment they are "coming soon" to the US and Canada but there is no news of UK, EU or RoW release....

A bit ironic that we have lots more motors to choose from with Power Functions but fewer train sets to choose from compared to 1982's 12V selection. Decoupling as a train function has moved onboard with PF, replacing the old 7862 set, but it is unlikely to appear in a train out of the box. Functionality is what AFOLs call play value

With all of the challenges of making lego work given all of the constraints turns it in to quite an engineering problem. But it does take a screwy engineer like me to enjoy that sort of thing. I would agree that it probably turns away too many potential users given the high learning barrier at the entry point. Though from the progressively simpler and simpler instructions over the years (of sets in general), I suspect lego knows more about their consumers than I do.

Okay, I feared it was something really crazy with the server motors, like they would burst in to flames if you looked at them funny. I have been waiting for one to update my on-board decoupler. It would be great to be able to hit it and forget about cutting power quickly. The L motors are now available in the US, but strangely they are 40% more expensive than the XL motors. The servo motors are listed as coming soon, but they now have a price listed, $25. You could get 3 M motors for that price and have a little change. So for now I'll stick with the M's for my switches (they work fine without a clutch too).

Indeed, lego has gone through two phases where they went all in with trains, first in the early 80's with the gray era of 12v, then again in the early 2000's. Too bad both of those heydays faded after a few years, but if the past is any predictor of the future, we should be due for another one in about six years (grin). Though in all seriousness, perhaps there will be enough AFOLs ready to consume the offerings if there ever is another heyday.

[JasperL]

I just completed building my 4 car HE and I absolutely love it. I tried running it on 12v but it wasn't really a highspeed train. Maybe I should buy a new train motor for it.

The real problem I encountered however wasn't with motoring it but with keeping it together. It keeps seperating at the magnetic couplings. I could solve it by replacing one magnet per coupling with an old style magnet. I still keep wandering however, is this a common problem or did I just get weak magnets with my set?

[dr_spock]

I just completed building my 4 car HE and I absolutely love it. I tried running it on 12v but it wasn't really a highspeed train. Maybe I should buy a new train motor for it.

The real problem I encountered however wasn't with motoring it but with keeping it together. It keeps seperating at the magnetic couplings. I could solve it by replacing one magnet per coupling with an old style magnet. I still keep wandering however, is this a common problem or did I just get weak magnets with my set?

I thought I had a weak magnet until I shook it and the magnet inside the plastic re-aligned itself. You can also lock the couplers together with a 1x2 plate.

[lego_ff]

Just noticed that there is a Horizon Express Kit posted on S@H. Includes the full power functions setup. A full HE can now be had for just over $380USD. Still not cheap but at least they are selling a full setup now, seemingly to address some of the concerns voiced here. I'll definitaly be buying a full setup sometime when the funds are available.

[zephyr1934]

The real problem I encountered however wasn't with motoring it but with keeping it together. It keeps seperating at the magnetic couplings. I could solve it by replacing one magnet per coupling with an old style magnet. I still keep wandering however, is this a common problem or did I just get weak magnets with my set?

Somewhere in the EB archives of the past 9 mo is one or two threads talking about the recent train magnets having problems. I think there was a batch where the internal magnet had problems flipping over and aligning itself in the shell. I think the simple solution is "bring the cars together slowly and listen for a click from the magnets before coupling." Or simpler still, if they pull apart, try recoupling. I THINK one of the posters also said that customer service was happy to replace the coupler pieces.

Just noticed that there is a Horizon Express Kit posted on S@H. Includes the full power functions setup. A full HE can now be had for just over $380USD. Still not cheap but at least they are selling a full setup now, seemingly to address some of the concerns voiced here. I'll definitaly be buying a full setup sometime when the funds are available.

I saw that today too, but it looks like it does not solve the problems discussed here, rather, it is simply a bundle of all of the parts you'll need except track to start from scratch. It looks to be at or near the MSRP for all of the included parts, so if you already have a train controller or battery charger, or do not care about the lights, it is more expensive than buying the parts individually. However, it is still a good gateway dru... I mean "set" for this hobby. For someone new to the hobby or someone out of the hobby buying for an AFOL, it is good to have all of the parts together for one click shopping. They still need to put together a track bundle for the HE though (again, even at full MSRP if they insist).

[lego_ff]

I saw that today too, but it looks like it does not solve the problems discussed here, rather, it is simply a bundle of all of the parts you'll need except track to start from scratch. It looks to be at or near the MSRP for all of the included parts, so if you already have a train controller or battery charger, or do not care about the lights, it is more expensive than buying the parts individually. However, it is still a good gateway dru... I mean "set" for this hobby. For someone new to the hobby or someone out of the hobby buying for an AFOL, it is good to have all of the parts together for one click shopping. They still need to put together a track bundle for the HE though (again, even at full MSRP if they insist).

Hmm, I thought it would be cheaper as a kit. I already have two PF trains and track so that isn't an issue for me. But for those starting out, and this is a great looking set to start out with, yes it is an issue that everything isn't sold together.

[legoman666]

Somewhere in the EB archives of the past 9 mo is one or two threads talking about the recent train magnets having problems. I think there was a batch where the internal magnet had problems flipping over and aligning itself in the shell. I think the simple solution is "bring the cars together slowly and listen for a click from the magnets before coupling." Or simpler still, if they pull apart, try recoupling. I THINK one of the posters also said that customer service was happy to replace the coupler pieces.

I ran in to that problem with some of my new style magnets. The last car on a train came detached on a layout at a show and the rest of the train collided in to it on its way back around. It happened on a bridge. The train derailed, knocked over the bridge and caused the other train to derail too. Big mess, fun times.

[zephyr1934]

The last car on a train came detached on a layout at a show and the rest of the train collided in to it on its way back around.

That is soooo embarrassing when you run into yourself like that (grin). Seriously though, yes, I've done that before myself. Though worst of the matter, I saw that the cars had decoupled before the rest of the train collided but without any time to respond. ARGH!!! Out of 10+ crashes off of tables at shows (including a few with steam engines), so far I've only suffered broken bogie plate.