LOTR & The Hobbit 2012

[tedbeard]

Compunding the problem is there are no vehicles. So, what will they realistically make sets of?

I think you are taking the "vehicle" idea too literally. How about:

• Gandalf's Cart
  
• Elven canoes
  
• Lots of horses (Rohan, Black Riders, etc)
  
• War Oliphant
  
• Merry & Pippin riding Treebeard
  
• Wargs
  
• Pirate ship
  
• Elven ship
  
• Orc siege tower
  
• Orc battering ram
  
• Gondorian trebuchet
  

And that is just off the top of my head.

[Gryphon Ink]

I think those who are pessimistic about this because "you can't do Helm's Deep properly on a minifig scale" are forgetting that Lego do enormous things on minifig scale ALL THE TIME. Temple of Doom minecart ride? The Lego version of it is the size of a ride at a country fair. Hogwarts? The first Lego version of that enormous pile of stone had 682 pieces. King's Castle? It's not even big enough to park the King's Carriage in its courtyard. TLG will not "only do this theme if they can do it justice", as claimed in this thread. They will do it if they can make playsets that will sell. That's what they do. They're a toy company, not a boutique that specializes in making photo-accurate miniatures for collectors.

I think if they do this theme, they will not release any enormous castle sets at all at first, and they will not commit to reproducing every single scene in the movie. They will produce one or two waves that feature small scenes picked out from the hundreds of scenes in the trilogy and the two Hobbit movies. A couple of ruins representing the climax of Fellowship of the Ring and the fight in Balin's Tomb, a gatehouse for the siege of Helm's Deep, a vignette for the Mount Doom scenes. Things like that, that can be playsets with some action features and a good selection of figures. They will not trouble themselves about reproducing the glory of Minas Tirith at all, unless the theme becomes wildly successful and they start to think about a second and third year. Then, and only then, will we start to get massive sets and battlepacks and brickbuilt oliphaunts. Just like they didn't produce a Death Star set for years after LSW began.

[CMP]

I think those who are pessimistic about this because "you can't do Helm's Deep properly on a minifig scale" are forgetting that Lego do enormous things on minifig scale ALL THE TIME. Temple of Doom minecart ride? The Lego version of it is the size of a ride at a country fair. Hogwarts? The first Lego version of that enormous pile of stone had 682 pieces. King's Castle? It's not even big enough to park the King's Carriage in its courtyard. TLG will not "only do this theme if they can do it justice", as claimed in this thread. They will do it if they can make playsets that will sell. That's what they do. They're a toy company, not a boutique that specializes in making photo-accurate miniatures for collectors.

I think if they do this theme, they will not release any enormous castle sets at all at first, and they will not commit to reproducing every single scene in the movie. They will produce one or two waves that feature small scenes picked out from the hundreds of scenes in the trilogy and the two Hobbit movies. A couple of ruins representing the climax of Fellowship of the Ring and the fight in Balin's Tomb, a gatehouse for the siege of Helm's Deep, a vignette for the Mount Doom scenes. Things like that, that can be playsets with some action features and a good selection of figures. They will not trouble themselves about reproducing the glory of Minas Tirith at all, unless the theme becomes wildly successful and they start to think about a second and third year. Then, and only then, will we start to get massive sets and battlepacks and brickbuilt oliphaunts. Just like they didn't produce a Death Star set for years after LSW began.

100% agree with everything here.

[lightningtiger]

I think you are taking the "vehicle" idea too literally. How about:

• Gandalf's Cart
  
• Elven canoes
  
• Lots of horses (Rohan, Black Riders, etc)
  
• War Oliphant
  
• Merry & Pippin riding Treebeard
  
• Wargs
  
• Pirate ship
  
• Elven ship
  
• Orc siege tower
  
• Orc battering ram
  
• Gondorian trebuchet
  

And that is just off the top of my head.

Mmmmm, trebuchet.....YES, please.

Having not seen the movies I didn't realise how many old school medieval weapons and modes of transport...inc. walking there was from the films. Comparing what Lego has done in the past with castle and recently with kingdom's...there were quite a few troll and horse pulled battle and carrying vehicles. Oh, by the way I can't say where I got this from (only it's one of my many sources who are in the business of selling Lego) The Hobbit - more likely than not....was the words used to me.

[Elander]

Middle-earth do not need massive sets. Middle-earth need innovative sets.

Do you like Isengard?

Thanks CREATOR TLG don’t need to take big risks and has not to develop so gigantic LEGO sets like the Death Star. For example we imagine the Orthanc (Sarumans Isengart Tower) as a CREATOR set.

The tower is to develop to a smaller format (for a 70 €/$ set) without the main characters Saruman and Grima Wormtongue. Those main characters are enclosed in a small 15 €/$ set “Sarumans Throne room” including with an small magic shining Palantir (gobstopper). For figure collectors get the tower set 2x rare Orc and Uruk-hai commander figures with changeable faces and 1x rare warg rider. In addition get the tower a construction manual for three different tower sizes.

Customers who are like willing to spend a lot of money for very large LEGO sets have now an additional incentive. Designed LEGO this tower to a 70 €/$ set and give that set two instructions for two larger tower sizes extra, than will those customers buy this “one” developed CREATOR set “two or three” times.

The effect is that TLG haven’t developed a risky expensive set and get now a “win to win” situation because some customers want to buy this CREATOR set three times. And with changing faces for the “grand and rare” figures is that no problem.

CREATOR sets are a kind big "variable" bricks. With some modular CREATOR sets you can build whole abstract areas. And if you want a area complete -than you have to buy many modular Creator sets; (to put it the other way round) TLG sell to you those CREATOR sets a bunch of times. And that is very good business!

Is TLG innovative; -than is Middle-earth for the company a modern money machine. Is TLG not innovative and keep conservative; -than need the company no money...

[Vindice]

Sorry Elander, you've mentioned the creator idea and I agree it is innovative but i just can't see it. Are the CREATOR sets even popular? I never seem to see much of them in stores or catalogues.

seems to me that if it were an idea that TLG were considering then they would've already explored it for larger licenses. You could use that idea for SW and HP but they didn't so why do it for a far riskier venture like LOTR?

And to Tedbeard, you cannot compare the rarely seen vehicles in LOTR to any other license, Elven canoes?? Corsairs ships which were barely seen and played very little part in anything, and Gandalfs cart?

I'm sorry mate but they are weak sets if they are going up against an X-Wing, a Batmobile, a Hogwarts Express or even a Black Pearl. If you were a kid what would you buy?

[fred67]

Sorry Elander, you've mentioned the creator idea and I agree it is innovative but i just can't see it. Are the CREATOR sets even popular? I never seem to see much of them in stores or catalogues.

I imagine something more like Hogwarts. It's not UCS, you can buy a couple and put it together, you can expand it with the other Hogwarts set... not sure how I'd see that happening exactly with Orthanc, but the idea that they can't do a reasonably small set to represent a large building is short sighted (not to sound insulting, I don't mean to be) - they've already done it with other themes, after all (not just Hogwarts, but any of the sailing ships... minifig illusion scale).

And to Tedbeard, you cannot compare the rarely seen vehicles in LOTR to any other license, Elven canoes?? Corsairs ships which were barely seen and played very little part in anything, and Gandalfs cart?

Why not? First of all, I reject the notion that a theme requires vehicles at all. How successful is the castle theme already, and what vehicles do they have? No more than LOTR... perhaps less. Harry Potter was light on vehicles, POTC is essentially light on non-ship vehicles - and they did a carriage that, essentially, plays a fairly minor role in the movie. Vehicles in terms of LOTR are horses, winged beasts, Oliphaunts, seige towers and Grond... but if you needed more, then Gandalf's cart would be a cool set (IMO, but then I'm an adult). Even the giant eagles would count as a vehicle.

Out of all those, you nit-pick Gandalf's cart? That's just one idea. The winged beasts and Oliphaunts would what the kids want to play with.

Edited November 8, 2011 by fred67

[Lyichir]

I imagine something more like Hogwarts. It's not UCS, you can buy a couple and put it together, you can expand it with the other Hogwarts set... not sure how I'd see that happening exactly with Orthanc, but the idea that they can't do a reasonably small set to represent a large building is short sighted (not to sound insulting, I don't mean to be) - they've already done it with other themes, after all (not just Hogwarts, but any of the sailing ships... minifig illusion scale).

It sounds like you're referring to the original Hogwarts from the first few years, rather than the recent one. In the recent HP sets there are a total of two sets that fit together, far from the massive modular mess that was the early Hogwarts. Even then, Hogwarts doesn't cut nearly the same profile as some of LotR's castles with extremely iconic overall forms. I see what you're getting at, though, and I suppose for some sets like Helms Deep they could shrink the scale down and still have room to recreate iconic scenes.

Why not? First of all, I reject the notion that a theme requires vehicles at all. How successful is the castle theme already, and what vehicles do they have? No more than LOTR... perhaps less. Harry Potter was light on vehicles, POTC is essentially light on non-ship vehicles - and they did a carriage that, essentially, plays a fairly minor role in the movie. Vehicles in terms of LOTR are horses, winged beasts, Oliphaunts, seige towers and Grond... but if you needed more, then Gandalf's cart would be a cool set (IMO, but then I'm an adult). Even the giant eagles would count as a vehicle.

Out of all those, you nit-pick Gandalf's cart? That's just one idea. The winged beasts and Oliphaunts would what the kids want to play with.

Recent castle themes have actually been heavier on vehicles, particularly fantasy era. But again, I agree that things like Treebeard could fill the same function in some cases.

I think the Creator idea someone suggested is rubbish, though. That type of release model would eliminate one of the main draws of licensed themes, that being role-play. You can't recreate the battle of Helms Deep with a microscale fortress city. A similar idea works for the Star Wars Midi-scale ships, but that's because it's easier to role-play with a ship than a structure.

[CMP]

CREATOR/System isn't going to happen. Look at the Fantasy Era set Tower Siege. Stick 4 spikes on top of the Crownie's tower and you've got the closest thing LEGO's going to release to Isengard. Replace the orc siege tower with Treebeard and you've got a set.

[The Legonater]

Out of all those, you nit-pick Gandalf's cart? That's just one idea.

Actually, I could see that being included in a Medieval Village-like set with the Shire.

Edited November 9, 2011 by The Legonater

[Jack Bricker]

I imagine something more like Hogwarts. It's not UCS, you can buy a couple and put it together, you can expand it with the other Hogwarts set... not sure how I'd see that happening exactly with Orthanc, but the idea that they can't do a reasonably small set to represent a large building is short sighted (not to sound insulting, I don't mean to be) - they've already done it with other themes, after all (not just Hogwarts, but any of the sailing ships... minifig illusion scale).

Why not? First of all, I reject the notion that a theme requires vehicles at all. How successful is the castle theme already, and what vehicles do they have? No more than LOTR... perhaps less. Harry Potter was light on vehicles, POTC is essentially light on non-ship vehicles - and they did a carriage that, essentially, plays a fairly minor role in the movie. Vehicles in terms of LOTR are horses, winged beasts, Oliphaunts, seige towers and Grond... but if you needed more, then Gandalf's cart would be a cool set (IMO, but then I'm an adult). Even the giant eagles would count as a vehicle.

Out of all those, you nit-pick Gandalf's cart? That's just one idea. The winged beasts and Oliphaunts would what the kids want to play with.

I agree totally with you on the fact that a theme does not need vehicles to be successful. Vehicles are just part of the elements that make a successful theme when it comes to Castle. Yes, getting a troll ship or siege tower is neat but, I do not want to get either before I get the castle for the ship and siege tower to attack. I do not think that LOTR is going to rely on vehicles at all but, on minifigs and and the iconic locations like Isenguard, Helms Deep, Minas Tirith, Cirith Ungol, the shire, Barad Dur, and Moria. Most of those sets do not have to be made into huge UCS sets but, could be made into simple modular sets like for example Cirith Ungol and Isenguard could be made into $20-30 sets and the Shire could simply be made into Bag End which is really just a single-story house under a hill. Also, you could make Helms deep on a raised baseplate Like 6081 Kings Mountain Fortress and Moria could simply be set of depicting the Balroq vs. Gandalf on the bridge with a couple of orcs. That just leaves Minas Tirith and Barad Dur for a large set and perhaps a UCS level set.

I do not think that Lego has to make a lot of UCS level sets at all to create a fun and innovative theme that will sell well to kids and AFOLs alike. I just think that Lego should be a little more innovative than they were with POTC since most of those sets are either not well designed like the BP or do not depict scenes from the movie that were all that great like the water wheel. In that regard I think Lego could have done much better and the theme would have sold a lot more.

[Vindice]

Actually, I could see that being included in a Medieval Village-like set with the Shire.

i LIKE that idea!

it doesn't matter if we think vehicles are necessary, TLG obviously does! Lets break it down seriously.

SW vehicle heavy and some playsets

Batman, vehicle heavy even when vehicles play little part in most stories. (Batmobile excluded of course)

Harry Potter, 3 versions of the Hogwarts express! They even did the Durmstrang ship

These are their best licenses to date. LOTR action figures were horrendously awful sellers even during the films, boys pay with cars first and foremost and then spaceships, airplanes and trains.

LOTR is risky, they can't flood the market with too many playsets as it impacts sales across the board then.

And vehicle replacements? If you were a kid and your parents told you that you could have one set would you go for an X-Wing or Grond? AT-AT or Mumakil?

[Jack Bricker]

i LIKE that idea!

it doesn't matter if we think vehicles are necessary, TLG obviously does! Lets break it down seriously.

SW vehicle heavy and some playsets

Batman, vehicle heavy even when vehicles play little part in most stories. (Batmobile excluded of course)

Harry Potter, 3 versions of the Hogwarts express! They even did the Durmstrang ship

These are their best licenses to date. LOTR action figures were horrendously awful sellers even during the films, boys pay with cars first and foremost and then spaceships, airplanes and trains.

LOTR is risky, they can't flood the market with too many playsets as it impacts sales across the board then.

And vehicle replacements? If you were a kid and your parents told you that you could have one set would you go for an X-Wing or Grond? AT-AT or Mumakil?

I would go for a Grond and a Mumakil when I was a kid. I have never been crazy about space anyway. The point is that just because Star Wars is popular does not mean that is all that will sell. I think that LOTR has a very good chance of being popular and I think that some of the new pieces that Lego could make as a result of this theme would certainly make it popular with Castle AFOLs.

Edited November 10, 2011 by Jack Bricker

[TenorPenny]

I think a set involving one of the Eagles (not the band), Samwise, Frodo and a tiny bit of Mount Doom would sell well. Especially if done in the style of Ninjago dragons.

Either way, I think we're probably going to get a slew of smaller sets inspired by the Hobbit movie, as a cash-in. I wouldn't hold my breath for anything else immediately.

[ka.lego]

Sorry, I've dropped off on this thread for the last two weeks or so and didn't quite see an answer to this when reviewing the replies, but has there been anything more getting us closer to a confirmation? Last I heard were the rumors someone heard from a LEGO store. Any new news?

I think those who are pessimistic about this because "you can't do Helm's Deep properly on a minifig scale" are forgetting that Lego do enormous things on minifig scale ALL THE TIME. ... They're a toy company, not a boutique that specializes in making photo-accurate miniatures for collectors.

I think if they do this theme, they will not release any enormous castle sets at all at first, and they will not commit to reproducing every single scene in the movie. They will produce one or two waves that feature small scenes picked out from the hundreds of scenes in the trilogy and the two Hobbit movies. ... Things like that, that can be playsets with some action features and a good selection of figures. They will not trouble themselves about reproducing the glory of Minas Tirith at all, unless the theme becomes wildly successful and they start to think about a second and third year. Then, and only then, will we start to get massive sets and battlepacks and brickbuilt oliphaunts. Just like they didn't produce a Death Star set for years after LSW began.

Brilliantly said. 100% agree. Bottom line is the "bottom line"...they'll do it if they can make money. It's really hard for me to see nothing but positive indicators of profit potential here, unless the licensing deal is too expensive. This just seems like a smart business gamble for several reasons. First, unlike the recent Prince of Persia or even the recent POTC license which had the immediate tie-in to only the latest sequel and all its marketing, a tie-in to "The Hobbit" is guaranteed a minimum life-span of two films to connect with marketing-wise; the films are already slated to be produced and released and will get two cycles of a marketing push. Cha-ching. People also have pointed out that when the LOTR films were still big they didn't necessarily do so well at selling the action figures they put on the market. Great point. However I do think that LEGO is the way to go because of this. LEGO has this appeal beyond the "cool looking plastic figures" they've done in the past. There's a classic / nostalgic vibe to LEGO that I think will appeal not just to the kids but to the *old* kids who, when "The Hobbit" films are released, will match their childhood fondness for the novel (or the old Rankin Bass cartoons) with their childhood fondness for LEGO. A match made in heaven / the Undying Lands! On an aside, does anyone know what happens with unsold sets after they're taken off the market? Seems to me that, unlike those unsold traditional action figures / figurines, they can always piece out the non-specific pieces (i.e. not the printed minifigs) and put them back into sets. Curious if that actually happens. I'm wondering if that makes it a slightly less-risky prospect for TLG to try out. (I keep thinking of Prince of Persia whose film didn't quite have the staying power / blockbuster appeal to match the hype...what'll happen to those unsold sets? Or maybe they all sold? I loved em...great parts.)

... First of all, I reject the notion that a theme requires vehicles at all. How successful is the castle theme already, and what vehicles do they have? No more than LOTR... perhaps less. Harry Potter was light on vehicles, POTC is essentially light on non-ship vehicles - and they did a carriage that, essentially, plays a fairly minor role in the movie. Vehicles in terms of LOTR are horses, winged beasts, Oliphaunts, seige towers and Grond... but if you needed more, then Gandalf's cart would be a cool set (IMO, but then I'm an adult). Even the giant eagles would count as a vehicle.

Again, I completely agree with this. I think the two quoted comments above really have the right perspective on the possibilities of this theme. I really don't think LEGO sits around and bases themes so simply on factors like vehicle count. I think, if anything, they consider it, but also make things appropriate to the theme. Some themes call for tons of vehicles, while others are okay with a larger number of playsets. Granted though, some vehicles are necessary, and I really think the options people have been pointing out, including Gandalf's Cart, are perfectly fine. (I'd LOVE his cart, complete with fireworks stash.) I think it'll be like Harry Potter, which had 4 playsets and 2 vehicles (if you count the Trolley handcart thing as a vehicle) in 2011. 2010's HP line had 5 playsets and 1 vehicle. So...yeah. Besides, TLG also needs a certain level of variety in their product offerings. They've got things like Racers, Star Wars, Dino, and City to cover a lot of vehicle-based play. Alongside, they sell things like Castle, which btw had 3 playsets and 1 vehicle in 2011. Just sayin...

[narbilu]

Again, I completely agree with this. I think the two quoted comments above really have the right perspective on the possibilities of this theme. I really don't think LEGO sits around and bases themes so simply on factors like vehicle count. I think, if anything, they consider it, but also make things appropriate to the theme. Some themes call for tons of vehicles, while others are okay with a larger number of playsets. Granted though, some vehicles are necessary, and I really think the options people have been pointing out, including Gandalf's Cart, are perfectly fine. (I'd LOVE his cart, complete with fireworks stash.) I think it'll be like Harry Potter, which had 4 playsets and 2 vehicles (if you count the Trolley handcart thing as a vehicle) in 2011. 2010's HP line had 5 playsets and 1 vehicle. So...yeah. Besides, TLG also needs a certain level of variety in their product offerings. They've got things like Racers, Star Wars, Dino, and City to cover a lot of vehicle-based play. Alongside, they sell things like Castle, which btw had 3 playsets and 1 vehicle in 2011. Just sayin...

I agree, if you look ate the PotC sets (aside from a few boats) 9 boxes: 2 large ships, 1 set with two carriages and the rest didn't have more than one or two small boats. If you look at the Indy Jones sets, PoP sets and HP sets, just little vehicles appear.

Come on with the prelim pictures

[Jack Bricker]

I never was crazy about vehicles and I know that there are a lot of other people out there who are not crazy about vehicles either. Vehicles are just the accessory when it comes to castle or something like Indiana Jones because that its the playsets that are the main focus and appeal when it comes to those kind of themes. I mean just look at Pharaohs Quest, the Adventurers, Fantasy Era Castle, the original Black Knights and Dragon Masters and castle sets from the 90s. Also, keep in mind that there was a lot of disappointment with the Atlantis theme because of all of the weird vehicles, so I do not think that vehicles are going to determine the successfulness of either The Hobbit or LOTR.

[AndyC]

I think those who are pessimistic about this because "you can't do Helm's Deep properly on a minifig scale" are forgetting that Lego do enormous things on minifig scale ALL THE TIME. Temple of Doom minecart ride? The Lego version of it is the size of a ride at a country fair. Hogwarts? The first Lego version of that enormous pile of stone had 682 pieces. King's Castle? It's not even big enough to park the King's Carriage in its courtyard. TLG will not "only do this theme if they can do it justice", as claimed in this thread. They will do it if they can make playsets that will sell.

Whilst I agree in principle with what you're saying and agree that's what will come of any LotR sets that did come, I can't help but think AFOLs in particular will absolutely slate the release of sets that follow that pattern. When "Battle of Helm's Deep" is revealed to be a little section of castle wall built mostly from 5 or 6 of those castle panels and a couple of figs from each side, those who're building up some epic theme in their mind will just be totally disappointed. That LotR is more heavily based around these epically big locations rather than vehicles, which are easier to build on a small scale, doesn't really go in its favour.

Selling LotR to AFOLs and other adult LotR collectors is a much harder thing when very scaled down sets is the most feasible way of doing them, so you have to rely on the kids more than you might have otherwise. It'd probably be more about producing very compelling figs, rather than necessarily great overall sets. You only have to look at the criticism of things like the Black Pearl set, which is perfectly comparable to previous Pirate ships, and yet draws more focus from the fact parts are seen as inacurrate. And in my experience PotC fans are probably not going to be as fussy as LotR fans.

[Elander]

Whilst I agree in principle with what you're saying and agree that's what will come of any LotR sets that did come, I can't help but think AFOLs in particular will absolutely slate the release of sets that follow that pattern. When "Battle of Helm's Deep" is revealed to be a little section of castle wall built mostly from 5 or 6 of those castle panels and a couple of figs from each side, those who're building up some epic theme in their mind will just be totally disappointed. That LotR is more heavily based around these epically big locations rather than vehicles, which are easier to build on a small scale, doesn't really go in its favour.

Selling LotR to AFOLs and other adult LotR collectors is a much harder thing when very scaled down sets is the most feasible way of doing them, so you have to rely on the kids more than you might have otherwise. It'd probably be more about producing very compelling figs, rather than necessarily great overall sets. You only have to look at the criticism of things like the Black Pearl set, which is perfectly comparable to previous Pirate ships, and yet draws more focus from the fact parts are seen as inacurrate. And in my experience PotC fans are probably not going to be as fussy as LotR fans.

Maybe shall TLG at first the buildings to shelve and at the 1.st wave to release just scenes by caves, holes, ruins...

I mean scenes like: Saurons Destiny & Isildur's Bane (LEGO set with small rocks), Nazugul attack at Weather Top (ruin) and also at Ford of Bruinen (rocks including river) against Arwen and her water horses, shining Moria Gate with Watcher, Balins Tomb with Cave troll, Balrog scene, Amon Hen (good sound ruin set), Bilbos Party with fireworkdragon....

So has LEGO no hecticness and can calmly for the second wave develop the first buildings like Isengard or Rivendell (just examples). ->If LEGO develops really well designed buildings iclusive beautiful minifigures, than want everybody these sets! (See for example as role model function the Diagon Alley, this set is also very well designed and has perfect minifigures.)

Meanwhile could TLG think about the "Battle Packs". By "The Hobbit" and "the Lord of the Rings" we get a lot of armies.

My absolut favorite army at LOTR is the "Army of the Dead". Those guys alike shining LEGO figures would be the killer! For "The Hobbit" I've at the time no idea. Maybe I will prefer the Mirkwood-elves. I don't know...

Which armies would you prefer? ^^

Edited November 11, 2011 by Elander

[Jack Bricker]

Whilst I agree in principle with what you're saying and agree that's what will come of any LotR sets that did come, I can't help but think AFOLs in particular will absolutely slate the release of sets that follow that pattern. When "Battle of Helm's Deep" is revealed to be a little section of castle wall built mostly from 5 or 6 of those castle panels and a couple of figs from each side, those who're building up some epic theme in their mind will just be totally disappointed. That LotR is more heavily based around these epically big locations rather than vehicles, which are easier to build on a small scale, doesn't really go in its favour.

Selling LotR to AFOLs and other adult LotR collectors is a much harder thing when very scaled down sets is the most feasible way of doing them, so you have to rely on the kids more than you might have otherwise. It'd probably be more about producing very compelling figs, rather than necessarily great overall sets. You only have to look at the criticism of things like the Black Pearl set, which is perfectly comparable to previous Pirate ships, and yet draws more focus from the fact parts are seen as inacurrate. And in my experience PotC fans are probably not going to be as fussy as LotR fans.

As a Pirates fan I would like to point out that the Black Pearl did not follow in the footsteps of the great, successful, and popular Skulls Eye Schooner, BSB, IMP because the set was half finished and not well designed as a Lego ship. No it did not compare well with the rest of the pirates line. But if you look at say Indiana Jones compared to the Adventurers, or some of the other POTC sets like the QAR to the classic pirates I think that Lego probably has a very good shot for a successful LOTR theme with kids and AFOLs alike.

[Lyichir]

I never was crazy about vehicles and I know that there are a lot of other people out there who are not crazy about vehicles either. Vehicles are just the accessory when it comes to castle or something like Indiana Jones because that its the playsets that are the main focus and appeal when it comes to those kind of themes. I mean just look at Pharaohs Quest, the Adventurers, Fantasy Era Castle, the original Black Knights and Dragon Masters and castle sets from the 90s. Also, keep in mind that there was a lot of disappointment with the Atlantis theme because of all of the weird vehicles, so I do not think that vehicles are going to determine the successfulness of either The Hobbit or LOTR.

I don't know what you're talking about in terms of the Atlantis theme being a "disappointment". It wasn't one for me (myself being one of the AFOLs who appreciated it for what it was rather than being butthurt about it not being very Greco-Roman). And it certainly wasn't one for LEGO (it exceeded expectations in its first year, and came to a strong finish in the second). The kids the theme was aimed at ate up those "weird vehicles", which is why vehicles (or siege engines, Oliphaunts, what have you) may be important for this theme's success. Even in lines like LEGO Star Wars, AFOLs are a periphery demographic, with kids accounting for more than 50% of the sales.

[Ardelon]

Even in lines like LEGO Star Wars, AFOLs are a periphery demographic, with kids accounting for more than 50% of the sales.

Is there a percentual breakdown of LEGO sales by age group somewhere?

[Jack Bricker]

I don't know what you're talking about in terms of the Atlantis theme being a "disappointment". It wasn't one for me (myself being one of the AFOLs who appreciated it for what it was rather than being butthurt about it not being very Greco-Roman). And it certainly wasn't one for LEGO (it exceeded expectations in its first year, and came to a strong finish in the second). The kids the theme was aimed at ate up those "weird vehicles", which is why vehicles (or siege engines, Oliphaunts, what have you) may be important for this theme's success. Even in lines like LEGO Star Wars, AFOLs are a periphery demographic, with kids accounting for more than 50% of the sales.

I do not think that siege engines, or other vehicles have ever been a huge focus in the Castle theme but, rather the castles, towers, and army builders have been the main focus. Siege engines are just part of the army builder focus in Castle. I would also like to clarify my original point that vehicles are not required for a theme to be successful and I do not think that they will be required for either LOTR or the Hobbit to be successful in Lego form.

[Elander]

I do not think that siege engines, or other vehicles have ever been a huge focus in the Castle theme but, rather the castles, towers, and army builders have been the main focus. Siege engines are just part of the army builder focus in Castle. I would also like to clarify my original point that vehicles are not required for a theme to be successful and I do not think that they will be required for either LOTR or the Hobbit to be successful in Lego form.

I agree, the Hobbit/LotR is a theme based of ruins, caves, woods and buildings. If I think realistic ( and now I want to think realistic) -than based LEGO's main focus of the different minifigures (peoples). Caves, trees and ruins are easy to create. We will see a lot of sets like the "Endor Battle Packs" or "POTC Cannibal Escape". With very good minifigures will these sets be successful enough.

Actually, I could see that being included in a Medieval Village-like set with the Shire.

Yes, please!

Maybe including the hobbit tavern "The Green Dragon" (with Rosie Cotton ), the small bridge and the old "Water Mill".

Sorry Elander, you've mentioned the creator idea and I agree it is innovative but i just can't see it. Are the CREATOR sets even popular? I never seem to see much of them in stores or catalogues.

I think, CREATOR for SW or HP would at the time be very popular. For example a modular Death Star CREATOR Canyon set with a wall and guns for the Death Star Battle scene were the Tie's to hunt the X-Wing's would sell very well. You could buy this CREATOR set 3x times and put it (alike the modular houses) in a line. Also a Endor Village set. One CREATOR tree house for 3x versions and you can build a nice Ewok village....

The CREATOR sets are even not popular because LEGO these don't develop for SW. Why? -I have no idea.

seems to me that if it were an idea that TLG were considering then they would've already explored it for larger licenses. You could use that idea for SW and HP but they didn't so why do it for a far riskier venture like LOTR?

..........

I think it is more risk if you develop a set what you would buy just 1x time. Why shall TLG don't give you a reason to buy this set 3x times?

[Lyichir]

I think, CREATOR for SW or HP would at the time be very popular. For example a modular Death Star CREATOR Canyon set with a wall and guns for the Death Star Battle scene were the Tie's to hunt the X-Wing's would sell very well. You could buy this CREATOR set 3x times and put it (alike the modular houses) in a line. Also a Endor Village set. One CREATOR tree house for 3x versions and you can build a nice Ewok village....

The CREATOR sets are even not popular because LEGO these don't develop for SW. Why? -I have no idea.

I think it is more risk if you develop a set what you would buy just 1x time. Why shall TLG don't give you a reason to buy this set 3x times?

Like I said before, I think Creator-style sets would be a poor choice for a Lord of the Rings theme. Kids won't care about a Helm's Deep model if they can't role-play with it. That makes something minifig-scale a necessity. Heck, even look at some of the AFOLs here: some of what they're most excited about are minifigs of LotR characters. I do think the best chance LEGO has of making sets to be bought multiple times is through battle packs; I can see a battle pack of Orcs, with one Uruk-hai included, selling like hotcakes.