Baritones 3: Day One

[Waterbrick Down]

Well after 24 hours worth of posts, it seems we've advanced a few inches at least I won't go into commenting on all of the Nika vs. Eugene as that seems to have been resolved, I will just say from my view point you both look like stubborn townies that won't let an issue rest. I applaud you both for trying to get conversation/suspicions going but too much of a good thing can obviously be a bad thing. Laying that aside, the still appears to be first whether we vote or not and second whom to vote for. I can't quite understand the logic held by the group among us who will be fine with not voting if we can't get any clear direction. To me it has been clearly stated that if we don't reach a conviction we will be punished in some form or another. In the worst case scenario we can probably assume that this punishment will be equal to, if not more serious than if we wrongly convicted one of our own. However the same could not be said of the flipside in which we convict one of the scum. I see at this:

1. We convict a loyal member of the town, resulting in moving us closer to losing the game, but also giving us a set of voting patterns to use as evidence for further on down the road. My evaluation: Acceptable situation

2. We convict a scum, resulting in moving us closer to victory and additionally giving us a set of voting patterns to use as evidence for further on down the road. My evaluation: Ideal situation

3. We don't convict anyone, resulting in some negative action against us whether losing a member of the town (which was a possibility of convicting anyways), or having individuals' night occupations impacted, or some other way that will set us back, on top of all this we have no voting pattern evidence and the scum get by without ever having to commit to any sides of an argument. My evaluation: Least desirable situation.

So I think we need to vote. We can't keep waiting for the scum to "slip up" we're going to have to make the tough decisions that could have some repercussions, now the only remaining question is for whom.

Due to my earlier statements I don't believe Nika is valid suspect at the moment. That leaves only Petr and Barbara as the only currently purported suspects unless I can figure something else out. I'm going to do one more review and see if I can pick anything else out (though reviewing the approximately 200 statements made thus far can take some time) and I will probably vote soon due to a very busy schedule tomorrow in real life at the police department and will not be able to get my decision in otherwise.

[badboytje88]

I've had a lot to catch up. I'm glad the whole Nika vs Eugene fight has calmed down. Both of these players appear to be really active townies.

Barbara's behavior has indeed been slightly off. I'm still not sure if it's enough to vote her off. But on the other hand we need to vote someone of and we don't have any other solid leads.

We could always look at the amount of posts. There might have been players who haven't said anything at all today. To me those people are quite useless. But given the fact that this is day one, the most of us probably don't have anything meaningful to say. Not posting might be a more reasonable criteria to vote someone of in a later stage of this game of life.

[RileyC]

For me, I don't think looking at the amount of input people have had into the conversation is entirely fair. We haven't really had a lot to talk about so maybe they just don't feel the need to repeat what's been stated. Or they have super hangovers and can't come to the conversation....

[Waterbrick Down]

Alright then, well almost 2 hours later Still haven't made much headway. So as I stated we are going to need to vote and I would seriously challenge the reasoning of those of you who would say otherwise. Thus a brief analysis of the current suspects, excluding the Eugene vs. Nika issue, follows:

Barbara: The only points against her are her so called lack of "contribution" a term that could be applied equally if not more damning to other individuals. Finally the point Petr earlier made about Barbara trying to distract us with discussion about the Eugene vs. Nika case since she was not the only one to participate in that discussion, I'm not sure if we can single her out as a distracter. Barbara's reply to the accusation hasn't aided much, but as has already been stated there wasn't much to add in the first place.

Petr: Most of the charges against him are either based off of slight so called "meta-gaming" and his somewhat scummy reaction to those accusations, i.e. his definition of trust. I also find it odd for him to show a significant amount of evidence against Benji and not follow up on it. However he has been willing to provide somewhat logical suspicions for his actions, and even while I find the accent particularly frustrating, I cannot see him being such a hypocrite concerning distractions when he is providing one of the most annoying ones.

Benji: While his responses to the charges against him are valid in terms of content, it appears to me that he is trying to distance himself from his clearly established position. Let me explain, from what I've observed thus far there have been two distinct groups of people during this day, those who talk a lot even when it doesn't get them anywhere in the end (i.e. Eugene vs. Nika, or Petr) and those who don't say anything because there is nothing to say (i.e. Dmitri or Stanislav and even to a point Barbara). Benji however seems to me an outlier, someone who is trying to straddle the fence and not be accused by either party. However it is this very behavior of half-hearted contribution that has brought on him suspicion by Petr. If he claims there was nothing to comment about or speak on then why did he in the first place, let him join the under the radar flight corps if he wishes to not be asked about his mediocre illusions at "contributions".

Ultimately while there are many talkers and there are many under the radar flyers and there are probably scum hiding amongst both groups, I think we should first focus on the anomalies, those that are trying to have the best of both worlds, so to speak. Again it's hard to be 100% sure on these things to begin with let alone on the very first day, but it needs to be done if we're to get anywhere.

Thus I will,

Vote: Benji (Big Cam)

I'm sorry to make this vote before Benji can reply, but I believe he has given enough responses to the suspicions raised by Petr to merit this step. As I said earlier I won't be really available for the limited hours before a conviction must be reached, but I will do my utmost to try and check back before hand and if need be change my vote.

[Bob]

Well what are you waiting for? Perfect evidence to drop from the sky? Someone to accidentally say "I'm scum!"? This game... of life is all about watching voting patterns, analyzing defenses, and observing others' behavior. Enough's happened today that you can at least raise suspicions. Given, there hasn't been much evidence, but it's certainly more than you're claiming it to be.

The point I'm making is that we won't actually hit a scum if we vote out someone on Day One. By talking about Yoga, you believe that I have revealed myself to be a member of the mob. I'm not sure how this makes sense. I'll agree, what I said the first two times wasn't exactly that helpful at all, but what do you expect? I'm not trying to fly under the radar.

I cannot provide an excellent defense for myself because there's nothing that this vote is being based on. The fact that my first two posts were useless warrants me being executed? How does that make any logical sense? There's absolutely no reason at all to be suspicious of me. The one point that I am trying to steer the conversation and make everyone lose track is nonsense. How can I steer the conversation? It looks like the conversation just went right on going the way it was after my posts anyway.

By the way, if we use the logic of posting sparingly with unhelpful comments, then she's scum to:

Urgh, I want to study but this is just crazy. I don't really want to vote or anything like that. I'm not confident throwing strong opinions like that out without knowing anyone closely. I'll sit back for now I think.

Sorry, I haven't introduced myself properly. I'm Catya, and I'm engaged to Yan. I'll get my identity sorted out to make it clearer as soon as I can.

She posted twice, she's a mobster! It had nothing to do with the conversation, she's a mobster!

See how illogical that was? There was no reason at all for me to accuse her, yet I did. By the way, I don't think she's scum. That was for demonstration purposes.

[Zepher]

Calm down Barbara. You've stated your points. You have one of the fifteen votes that would be required to put you to death, you don't have to be fighting tooth and nail right now.

[Masked Builder]

My head is really starting to hurt with all of this back and forth. A conviction does need to be made today, I don't think we'll be any happier if we accidentally lynch a townie, instead of not lynching anyone and losing two or three townies, maybe some scum too, with the penalty. Voting seems like the most logical thing to do instead of the facing the penalty.

I think Petr has behaved the most scummily today. So I, Vote: Petr (Zepher)

If it appears that by voting for someone else will get us out of the predicament called the penalty, I'll happily change my vote.

[Big Cam]

Benji: While his responses to the charges against him are valid in terms of content, it appears to me that he is trying to distance himself from his clearly established position. Let me explain, from what I've observed thus far there have been two distinct groups of people during this day, those who talk a lot even when it doesn't get them anywhere in the end (i.e. Eugene vs. Nika, or Petr) and those who don't say anything because there is nothing to say (i.e. Dmitri or Stanislav and even to a point Barbara). Benji however seems to me an outlier, someone who is trying to straddle the fence and not be accused by either party. However it is this very behavior of half-hearted contribution that has brought on him suspicion by Petr. If he claims there was nothing to comment about or speak on then why did he in the first place, let him join the under the radar flight corps if he wishes to not be asked about his mediocre illusions at "contributions".

Ultimately while there are many talkers and there are many under the radar flyers and there are probably scum hiding amongst both groups, I think we should first focus on the anomalies, those that are trying to have the best of both worlds, so to speak. Again it's hard to be 100% sure on these things to begin with let alone on the very first day, but it needs to be done if we're to get anywhere.

Thus I will,

Vote: Benji (Big Cam)

I'm sorry to make this vote before Benji can reply, but I believe he has given enough responses to the suspicions raised by Petr to merit this step. As I said earlier I won't be really available for the limited hours before a conviction must be reached, but I will do my utmost to try and check back before hand and if need be change my vote.

So in your few paragraphs of nothing you seem to come to me as a scum why? Oh ya, you presented absolutely no reason to vote for me. Please explain this clear established position I've apparently taken.

Lets see:

I don't write a storybook every time I post.

I stated that I fear the penalty so I think a conviction should be made.

But since I have no clue who to vote for, I'm not going to randomly convict a possible townie.

Yup I definitely look like scum, wait that's practically everyone in the game.

I hope people jump on your bandwagon and lynch me, so that tomorrow everyone will vote for you, since I am a loyal townie. I mean I've done nothing wrong and said nothing wrong so how the hell am I suppose to defend myself against an accusation you've based on zero facts. Just say your wrong? And before you go making a big deal about me defending myself, be sure to read the thread first, because you just voted for me, of course I'm going to defend myself

I applaud your willingness to vote on day one, but I shrug at your ignorant uninformed reasoning.

[Quarryman]

Now, I've been quiet for a while, and I guess this makes me look suspicious, but I just didn't feel like it was worthwhile to participate in this circlejerking of nonsense and back-and-forth "discussions". So for the time being I'll just throw a random stone at someone who's already been voted for, and spinning this empty vodka bottle I found ended up pointing at Petr.

Vote: Petr (Zepher).

Nothing against you son, I guess you're as likely or unlikely to be scum as everyone else at the moment, but if we don't accept that we'll have to make some tough choices we'll never get through this alive, then the mob(s) (I have no reason to believe whether there is one or several mobs, though what Agent Sky told Ivan might be read as there are several) will kill us one by one.

Yes, you may laugh at my lack of reasoning, because frankly, I don't have much of it at the moment. But I fear the penalty will be bad for us, so I'm damn well not going to sit here and refuse to vote.

[WhiteFang]

Divided we stand? This might not be a good illustration but currently we are seeing a 3-corner fight among the 3 suspected contestants.

Supposedly we can't go for all 3 of them, then we should decide fast and quick within the next 24 hours or less, if we (majority) will like to see a conviction or not. Right now, we can only based on our gut feelings to put our vote forward, and only an united town can stand a chance.

I will rather all of us can make a concise decision into this. I will very much likely to spend more time to go through those defenses and hope to shed some light and sense into my mind.

[Peanuts]

We don't seem to make any progress at the moment, the discussion is literally slowing down and I doubt we'll get any further "evidence" (by evidence, I mean here just something that has come up).

I think, the points against Benji and Petr are rather forced and not very strong. So right now, I'm going to vote: Barbara (Bob The Construction Man). I'm aware she's not unlikely to be town, but a decision has to be done.

[Tamamono]

Alright, I've thought long and hard about all that's been said today, and I think I've come to a decision.

Benji: While his responses to the charges against him are valid in terms of content, it appears to me that he is trying to distance himself from his clearly established position. Let me explain, from what I've observed thus far there have been two distinct groups of people during this day, those who talk a lot even when it doesn't get them anywhere in the end (i.e. Eugene vs. Nika, or Petr) and those who don't say anything because there is nothing to say (i.e. Dmitri or Stanislav and even to a point Barbara). Benji however seems to me an outlier, someone who is trying to straddle the fence and not be accused by either party. However it is this very behavior of half-hearted contribution that has brought on him suspicion by Petr. If he claims there was nothing to comment about or speak on then why did he in the first place, let him join the under the radar flight corps if he wishes to not be asked about his mediocre illusions at "contributions".

Ultimately while there are many talkers and there are many under the radar flyers and there are probably scum hiding amongst both groups, I think we should first focus on the anomalies, those that are trying to have the best of both worlds, so to speak. Again it's hard to be 100% sure on these things to begin with let alone on the very first day, but it needs to be done if we're to get anywhere.

Thus I will,

Vote: Benji (Big Cam)

Interesting point, Donil. Benji's seemed pretty 'middle' to me today, and that's exactly where the scum want to be, especially on Day 1. Also, it seems to me that he's trying to scare us into making a hasty decision by bringing up the penalty and claiming that it will be worse than lynching a townie.

So in your few paragraphs of nothing you seem to come to me as a scum why? Oh ya, you presented absolutely no reason to vote for me. Please explain this clear established position I've apparently taken.

I'm pretty sure Donil was saying that you're distancing yourself from a clearly established position.

I stated that I fear the penalty so I think a conviction should be made.

You didn't say that you fear the penalty, you said that:

Actually the logical answer is yes it is likely going to be as bad or worse. Otherwise it wouldn't be a penalty.

That looks to me like you're trying to make others fear the penalty. Trying to inspire fear in others is a way of sowing confusion, and we all know how much scum love to do that. Because of this, I will

Vote: Benji (Big Cam)

I'm willing to change my vote if something comes up.

[Peanuts]

vote: Barbara (Bob The Construction Man)

Sorry, I meant vote: Barbara (Bob The Construction Man)

[Brickdoctor]

The point I'm making is that we won't actually hit a scum if we vote out someone on Day One.

How do you know that?

Well, thus far I've found a variety of different arguments to be convincing, from Eugene to Barbara. Donil and Timur have made good points as well. Ultimately, it goes against my gut feeling™, and I'd prefer to be lynching someone who was either scum or an idiot, but I find the wording of Benji's post about penalties as pointed out by Timur to be the most suspicious. I didn't say it, but yesterday earlier in the Day I decided that I really had nothing to present a case against anyone, so I'd sit back and play the part of the jury. Donil and Timur have convinced me. Therefore, I'll Vote: Benji (Big Cam).

[Zepher]

For everyone:

Votes

Nika 1 (Eskallon)

Barbara 3 (Zepher, Sandy, Peanuts)

Petr 3 (def, Masked Builder, Quarryman)

Benji 3 (Waterbrick Down, Tammo, Brickdoctor)

I'm really not a fan of the split vote. I will return later today and add my vote to who ever may have the most votes, myself included.

[Sandy]

Apparently my vote does not count at all. If the reason is a Day Action, it must be either a Mafia Vote Blocker or a neutral one, because what would our Town do with a vote blocker? Voting is our best weapon against the Mafia, and the chances of blocking a townie would be too big for the vote blocking to be helpful to the Town in any way. Besides, in the case of a Day Action I'd be a nigh-confirmed townie, which would put a huge target on my back, and I know the Big Voice wouldn't do that to me (would he? ).

No, the reason must be something else. Since my vote is not in effect, I'll try proxying my vote, but if that doesn't work either, I'll just sit tight and wait for the end of the day to learn just what the hell is going on here.

As I previously said, there seems to be a stronger case to accuse Benji, and his "defense" was quite a scummy one, right down to calling others ignorant.

Thus, I will proxy: Donil (Waterbrick Down). Fingers crossed this works...

[Brickdoctor]

I'm really not a fan of the split vote. I will return later today and add my vote to who ever may have the most votes, myself included.

But you've already voted for Barbara.

[CorneliusMurdock]

I'm really not a fan of the split vote. I will return later today and add my vote to who ever may have the most votes, myself included.

Wait. So if you have the most votes when you return, you're going to vote for yourself?

Where's the logic in that? If you're town, you should want the town to win and just by being a living town member would be helping to do that. If you're scum, I still don't see what you have to gain.

The only thing I can think of is that it might be your win condition but I would think you'd have to wait a few days or not vote for yourself for such a win condition.

I'm hoping I just misunderstood you.

[Big Cam]

Interesting point, Donil. Benji's seemed pretty 'middle' to me today, and that's exactly where the scum want to be, especially on Day 1. Also, it seems to me that he's trying to scare us into making a hasty decision by bringing up the penalty and claiming that it will be worse than lynching a townie.

I'm pretty sure Donil was saying that you're distancing yourself from a clearly established position.

You didn't say that you fear the penalty, you said that:

That looks to me like you're trying to make others fear the penalty. Trying to inspire fear in others is a way of sowing confusion, and we all know how much scum love to do that. Because of this, I will

Vote: Benji (Big Cam)

I'm willing to change my vote if something comes up.

I live how everyone says I'm willing to change my vote, like that clears you from making a stupid mistake. Why not wait to vote until you have a good solid reason.

A.Of course I'm in the middle, I have no clue who to vote for but I fear the penalty that will happen if we don't.

B. You're right, I misread that. He did say I was distancing myself, which again basically makes sense for me to do, since we have no evidence and no reason to vote anyone off except the penalty.

C.The quote of mine you quoted, how is that me not afraid of the penalty?

Also you say I'm trying to scare people into voting, if I was doing that wouldn't I probably scare everyone into voting for someone in particular? I'm not trying to scare anyone, if no one gives a shit about the penalty then fine, lets ignore it and see what it is or isn't.

I'm dick of these uninformed useless votes, your not helping anyone.

How do you know that?

Well, thus far I've found a variety of different arguments to be convincing, from Eugene to Barbara. Donil and Timur have made good points as well. Ultimately, it goes against my gut feeling™, and I'd prefer to be lynching someone who was either scum or an idiot, but I find the wording of Benji's post about penalties as pointed out by Timur to be the most suspicious. I didn't say it, but yesterday earlier in the Day I decided that I really had nothing to present a case against anyone, so I'd sit back and play the part of the jury. Donil and Timur have convinced me. Therefore, I'll Vote: Benji (Big Cam).

You could have voted for me without calling me an idiot.

[CMP]

I'm dick of these uninformed useless votes, your not helping anyone.

Your dick is uninformed and useless...? You should have that checked.

I'm glad people are actually beginning to make up their minds and vote. I think I'll Vote: Petr (Zepher). While his actions today have been similar to Benji's, the fact that he's saying 'If I'm being voted for, I'll vote myself too.' is scaring me. Petr, if you give a damn about your life, fight for it.

[Brickdoctor]

You could have voted for me without calling me an idiot.

Note the use of the conjunction 'but':

"Ultimately, it goes against my gut feeling™, and I'd prefer to be lynching someone who was either scum or an idiot, but I find the wording of Benji's post about penalties as pointed out by Timur to be the most suspicious."

I was saying that if you're Town, you're not an idiot, which is one of the reasons I have against voting for you, because I'd rather lynch someone who was either an idiot or scum. I then went on to say that I thought the reasons to vote for you outweighed the reasons not to.

[Big Cam]

Your dick is uninformed and useless...? You should have that checked.

Why don't you put on your adult maturity hat, I meant to say sick, but an auto correct was missed by me, and per the rules I did not edit.

Note the use of the conjunction 'but':

"Ultimately, it goes against my gut feeling™, and I'd prefer to be lynching someone who was either scum or an idiot, but I find the wording of Benji's post about penalties as pointed out by Timur to be the most suspicious."

I was saying that if you're Town, you're not an idiot, which is one of the reasons I have against voting for you, because I'd rather lynch someone who was either an idiot or scum. I then went on to say that I thought the reasons to vote for you outweighed the reasons not to.

Probably should have ben more clear, because in the end you voted for me, I just hope your happy with the resulting townie death, since you have no evidence against me.

[CorneliusMurdock]

My brother Donil seems to have really thought this through. What he says about trying to participate without contributing has merit and I hope this is the right decision.

Vote: Benji (Big Cam)

Sorry if we're wrong.

[Brickdoctor]

I just hope your happy with the resulting townie death, since you have no evidence against me.

I'll be happy to change my vote if you know of some more substantial evidence against someone else.

[Tamamono]

I live how everyone says I'm willing to change my vote, like that clears you from making a stupid mistake. Why not wait to vote until you have a good solid reason.

I didn't say that because I think it 'clears me', I said because I'm open to other options.

C.The quote of mine you quoted, how is that me not afraid of the penalty?

If you really were afraid of the penalty, you could've just said so instead of talking about how 'bad' it'll be.

I'm dick of these uninformed useless votes, your not helping anyone.

You say that the penalty is going to be at least as bad as lynching a townie, yet you don't want us to make 'uninformed' votes? You do realize that we have no evidence today, so any votes we cast are going to be 'uninformed', right? And no, I'm not voting for you because I'm scared of the penalty (whatever it may be), I'm voting for you because you're acting pretty scummy.