8043 Excavator - Lego update

[tomacwhite]

its kind of a weird thing.

when i first saw the design video of 8275 there were many kids playing with the models

why didn't they do it with 8043?

the faultiness would have definitely come out then before it has reached worldwide production.

That was them decided whether the wanted Power Functions or the Pneumatic system though, I assume Lego wanted PF from the off so didn't do that testing.

[roamingstop]

Perhaps it is a fault - more likely it is a combination of a series of small errors; e.g. high torque / loading from the boom --> M Motor, and a bad batch of motors, some minor tolerance changes on bricks / axles and together they form a 'bad boom experience'.

Collectors items? maybe. Depends upon what modifications might be happening. But as this is a flagship product just when the new catalogues are produced, I suspect there will be a lot of urgency to get it fixed before the Christmas rush.

[Conchas]

Hypothetical major or even moderate modifications like introduction of 1 or 2 XL motors, would also imply the production of new boxes making those already produced useless.

It could even propagate to bags with parts already packed, if it can't be solved by adding just a few extra parts...

In that case, those already packed will hardly be reused, as you would need to manually separate everything.

[mahjqa]

So what -is- the most likely suspect? High torque killing motors, or a faulty batch of motors?

Bought it, haven't built it yet...

I feel bad for the designer. This is going to be a huge money sink for Lego.

[Conchas]

Mainly the first, but I wouldn't exclude the second either.

I wouldn't blame the designer, but definitely it seems something was under look during the tests or not taken to the required extent, which BTW was not that big.

These kind of models are getting such complexity that they might require also engineers to test them (Mechanical and Electrical). Not just designers and kids.

Many of us have asking for bigger and more complex models, but this turns to be a very good demonstration that we are on the border of what should be possible to build with LEGO in terms of viable commercial sets.

If we like more functions, more complex and bigger models, what they could be???

[shimon]

i also agree that this isn't a designer's fault

i can understand TLG struggling to make models not just for the functions and size but,for reasonable price, piece amount, building complexity and too much "expensive" parts

try to come up with a model that is 100-250$ with as maximum functions as possible to be a flagship product

i think its the time to release new PF elements or new parts to strengthen the structure.

there are also almost no options for technic vehicles for future production, only a few..

we might also think about it and help TLG somehow..

Edited August 18, 2010 by shimon

[allanp]

Mainly the first, but I wouldn't exclude the second either.

I wouldn't blame the designer, but definitely it seems something was under look during the tests or not taken to the required extent, which BTW was not that big.

These kind of models are getting such complexity that they might require also engineers to test them (Mechanical and Electrical). Not just designers and kids.

I wouldn't place all the blame (if any) at the designer either. The technic team is a team afterall and the model has to be tested and passed by various people before it goes into production I would imagine.

Many of us have asking for bigger and more complex models, but this turns to be a very good demonstration that we are on the border of what should be possible to build with LEGO in terms of viable commercial sets.

Indeed we seem to be disigning at the limits of what is possible, haven't we always

If we like more functions, more complex and bigger models, what they could be???

Models with new parts that further push the boundries of what is possible. I'm talking parts that really make models more authentic and lifelike. The current gearbox concept is one of a few examples. It was a great step forward 16 years ago in the 8880 but it is an old concept now, not very realistic, creates alot of internal friction which has to be overcome and can't handle much power as it comes in standard sets. This doesn't mean TLG should never fully motorise a car with a gearbox, but that they should design better parts. The short length of pneumatic cylinders make them unsuitable for todays large flagships like the excavator, this means they should make them longer, not refrain from making pneumatic sets (and no, I do not feel LA's to be a good enough replacement. We were told they weren't a replacement anyway, i'de hate to see pneumatics replaced, unless by water powered hydraulics, but that's just silly ). I'm not saying they have to increase the number of parts available to us as that would be costly (although obviously nice) but that parts should be updated and changed as the size, demands and standard of sets increase. I could be wrong but if technic is at it's limits, and if TLG wants to continually improve on the line, then the only thing that limits the technic line are the elements in the assortment (and our own imagination of course!)

[bluescrn]

Am I one of the few with one that seems to work just fine?

The only (minor) issue that I've had is that the track movement isn't entirely smooth - but considering the complexity of the transmission and gearing system involved to drive those tracks, I'm impressed that it works as well as it does!

No problems with the main arm (pair of linear actuators) - although I was quite careful to make sure the two were well aligned when assembling it

Maybe I've just not played with it enough to see any issues... the real fun is in the building. To me, this model is a masterpiece of Lego engineering!

[tomacwhite]

Mine is all taken apart and boxed up ready to be shipping. I felt sad because I remembered how much I enjoyed building the model, but there you go.

One thing I did notice was that quite a few axles had white powder on them which looked like plastic dust. Perhaps grinding transmissions was the source of the problems for 8043? Who knows. I'll buy it again once its reissued and it will then be worth the money. For now, it's not.

[TechnicJuan]

What problems are you guys having exactly? I have built mine and operated it for awhile and I didn't seem to have any problems at all (But I didn't really expect this thing to move mountains) You guys must be putting some Overtime in on your models. To be honest though, I have never been impressed with the power functions motors from day one. There is just something about plastic gears + torque + weight that just doesn't seem right.

[merman]

So what is the problem?

Mine was operating perfectly at first (even though there was some difference in the LA's), but after a while it was working very slow. It could be it only works perfectly with full batteries...

But does it actually ruin your M-motor???

[TechnicJuan]

This doesn't mean TLG should never fully motorise a car with a gearbox, but that they should design better parts.

Agree. There is no way that TLC is going to release a new Supercar with the current motors that are out because there would be absolutely nothing "Super" about it. A 1,500 piece supercar model wouldn't be very fun if it just creeps along.

[JunkstyleGio]

Sent a complaint myself on the 9th of augustus.

Haven't had any reply to it at all. But i think i will get an answer soon

(Good thing i have a batchnumber of the set, since it came in a original transportbox..)

It's a good thing TLC takes it as a serious problem....

Let's hope for the best!

[TechnicJuan]

Sent a complaint myself on the 9th of augustus.

Haven't had any reply to it at all. But i think i will get an answer soon

(Good thing i have a batchnumber of the set, since it came in a original transportbox..)

It's a good thing TLC takes it as a serious problem....

Let's hope for the best!

I still haven't found a clear issue of what the problem is. What is/isn't your set doing properly?

Edited August 18, 2010 by TechnicJuan

[JunkstyleGio]

My problems are:

Main Boom: Slow movement up, motor is getting warm and draining battery,

Right track: Slow (and out of sinc with the left track, motor is getting warm and draining battery, and pushing gears off the axles.

(And so i mentioned them in my email to TLC)

Made some alterations as we all did. (Idle-gear change and rubberband solution as mentioned in Blackbird review-topic).

But still it's a shame because it's such a great set.......

[tomacwhite]

I still haven't found a clear issue of what the problem is. What is/isn't your set doing properly?

Slewing

Incredibly slow and a loud draining sound from the motor as it struggles to rotate. Movement is slow

Left track

Works OK

Right track

Incredibly slow and laggy, with a draining sound from the motor

Main arm (dual actuators)

Raising: So slow it virtually doesn't move. You have to help it with your hand, then it works perfectly.

Lowering: Works OK

Central arm

Raising: Again, incredibly slow with a loud draining noise coming from the motor as it struggles to lift the arm

Lowering: OK

Bucket

Fine in both directions

Notes:

- If I remove the connecting axles from the linear actuators they spin very quickly with no problems whatsoever. No draining noises

- If I hold the Excavator from the ground or upside down and operate the tracks, they work perfectly with no lag or drain from the motors.

[TechnicJuan]

Ok, I can see what you guys mean about the draining issue and motors struggling. I just assumed that this was the way that it was going to work. I knew there was going to be an issue with the tracks when I first started building it. Like I mentioned in another thread, the Lego designers did some strange things here that had me scratching my head.

[jason-l]

I'm curious - the couple folks on this thread who are getting refunds from Lego... am I right to assume you all bought from Lego Shop online?

I'm asking since I am considering what I want to do myself, having had most of tomacwhite's issues (if anything my carefully constructed Excavator performed worse than you video, tomacwhite) before I built the B-model instead to remove my frustrations(!), but I bought from Argos (UK).

[JunkstyleGio]

I don't want a refund; i just want a fix or MOD from TLc so my set works.

If that meas that TLC recalls my set for a upgraded version, so be it...

I didn't get my set from S@H but from a Dutch webstore.

[Sato]

Shame I already disassembled it, Didn't have room for it and I don't want any new set with PF or LA's to collect dust on my shelfs. (Dusting off, Testing and disassembling older sets at the moment.)

Now i got to rebuild it (Got al the time in the world and its fun but....) And test it. (Big problem here, I'm hearing impaired and can't tell if a motor is under stress. May need to ask my dad to help me with that.)

Anyway, I will send Lego a message asking them to keep me updated on what there going to do about it.

(Refund would be okay but I would hate having to sent mine to them, Rather have them sending me the parts required for the fix after I give them a copy of my reciept.)

May also sent a message to the store owner from where I bought it.

Edited August 19, 2010 by Sato

[dr_spock]

I just bought mine on Monday. Now this is disconcerting.

[hoeij]

Big problem here, I'm hearing impaired and can't tell if a motor is under stress. May need to ask my dad to help me with that.)

Rough guess:

Take the motor, put 9 volts on it, and estimate its rpm when it is spinning freely.

Under a load, if the rpm is only half of that (with still the same 9V on it), then I'd worry that the motor is under too much stress.

What really matters is not so much the voltage, but rather, the amperage. The amperage

is roughly proportional to the torque that the motor produces. It is also roughly proportional

to "the rpm it would have when it's running freely" minus "the rpm it has under a load".

Does anyone know what a safe amperage is for an M-motor?

In a DC motor, if the amperage (the current) is too high, then in the commutator (carbon sliding over metal) the carbon gets vaporized, and when the carbon contact points are gone, the motor is gone too.

[DLuders]

@ hoeij: See Philo's "9V Technic Motors Compared Characteristics" page for the amperage running in a Power Functions Medium motor.

[Sato]

Sorry that I wasn't clear.

I meant that I can't Hear if the motor is struggling to perform the required task when the model is build and played with.

All I hear is a bunch of noise from al the moving parts...

Edited August 19, 2010 by Sato

[hoeij]

I just bought mine on Monday. Now this is disconcerting.

Bought mine yesterday on eBay. I'm not worried though. In other threads on eurobricks you can find solutions how to make it work better. Moreover, I'm sure that lego will locate the source of the problems and decide on a solution, and if that involves extra parts, I'm sure lego costumer service will mail them after a phone call.

Even so, I think I'll build the B model first. The reason is, when my 8043 arrives, if I can get the main model to work using the ideas posted here on eurobricks, then I might not want to take it apart anymore, and never end up building the B model, which would be a pity because I think that model is very nice too. So to make sure I'll get to see both models, I'll have to build the B model first.

@ hoeij: See Philo's "9V Technic Motors Compared Characteristics" page for the amperage running in a Power Functions Medium motor.

I've read that page, but it doesn't say what amperage is safe in the long run. It tells us that the stalled current for the M motor at 9V is 850 mAmp. That kind of current will surely kill the motor quite quickly (the webpage says "Take care to avoid extended period stall condition"). What I don't know is how much current is safe in the longer run.