[OFFICIAL] 10320 Eldorado Fortress - Available NOW

[Aanchir]

2 hours ago, GameTime said:

POBB dock was brown. Pretty much every single movie or depiction of a pirate-bay, imperial port, or dock is brown, not black.
The only reason Lego used black here was to copy the original set design which at the time brown block pieces were in their infancy.

I mean… even POBB's masts, spars, and bowsprits were black, not brown. And lest we forget, when Pirates of Barracuda Bay was revealed, it got loads of criticism for seeming "playset-ish" and adhering closely to the original Black Seas Barracuda's color palette instead of the dark and mottled earth tones of the original LEGO Ideas proposal.

Also, it's important to keep in mind that Barracuda Bay's pier is an improvised structure built from repurposed shipwreck components, whereas Eldorado Fortress's pier is important military infrastructure, and as such is likely tarred somewhat regularly to prevent decay.

1 hour ago, RichardGoring said:

Personally, I see it and think they're fine together. It's a small fort and I'm OK with it being a small fort. Compared to a huge flagship, that this fort isn't designed to support, but may deter the ship from entering a mid-level harbour.

If it were to be a much bigger, more impressive fort, then LEGO would charge $400 for it, and at that point it becomes too much for relatively limited gains and appealing to a far smaller market.

Besides that, the original Eldorado Fortress was smaller than the Black Seas Barracuda — so considering that the updated version of the ship from Barracuda Bay had close to the same "footprint" as the original Barracuda, I never really expected any different from this Eldorado Fortress redesign. If anything, it was a pleasant surprise that they replaced one of the rowboats with a remake of the more impressive cargo ship from the Imperial Trading Post.

[F1stzz]

4 hours ago, GameTime said:

Lego honestly butchered this

They honestly did. 

4 hours ago, dimc said:

I will admit, the figures are pretty excellent. Barring the red pirate, all would have a good use in the new EF and all of those sell for over $10, sometimes a bunch more.

Yeah, that's pretty much what I was trying to say few days ago mentioning the potential costs of army building from this point on. I just don't get why we couldn't bring those prints back, not only for figures, but for flags as well (even tho I rather appreciate the new torso print for "new governor" & find it a bit more interesting in details). Down the road we'll have 3 different sorts of Bluecoats & all of them will be expensive to a various degree, same stuff with their flags. 

3 hours ago, TalonCard said:

the price to piece ratio is good

The price to value ratio isn't tho. I don't think it needs to be thoroughly explained over & over again, you're all grown up people here & can tell the difference, which is quite noticeable between what we've got in 21322 for 2500 pcs at $200 & what we have now in 10320 for the same amount of pieces at $215 (even at $225 in some places). PoBB offered the customer: tons of accessories (from basic weaponry to agricultural tools, to daily use items); two massive striking builds (and I mean structurally) like nothing ever before in the theme; lots of living creatures, plants; proper homages (dat Islanders one is a prime example) etc. On the other hand in 10320 we're mostly paying for the rocks. Accessories are quite limited from what I've seen in the reviews (limited to the point of considering 2 flintlocks a "cargo", in fact); there's little to no treasure & gold in a Fortress called "Eldorado"; plants? Forget about it, here's some dated palm trees (no coconuts for ya there too, btw) & foliage, guys; supplies? Well, soldiers may enjoy eating cannonballs from their plates; fauna? Here's your parrot & monkey, F off — and we can go all day. So yeah, "price to piece ratio" could sometimes be a two-sided coin, innit, lad? 

3 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

This isn't on the same level as Barracuda Bay.

Fixed the sentence for ya a little 

3 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

It isn't perfect, but it's still a good set.

I like how somebody formulated it on Insta somewhere: "as a standalone set — it's decent, as a remake — it is bad".

3 hours ago, jodawill said:

The black dock really isn't odd at all.

The colour isn't. The design of the build itself is the epitome of primitiveness & should never be a thing in 2023 at the price point of this set.

2 hours ago, GameTime said:

The only reason Lego used black here was to copy the original set design which at the time brown block pieces were in their infancy.

That is true frfr. Designers have lost the plot & couldn't differentiate the "remake" & "copypasta" in this case (and quite a few others). People who've seen all the complaints about the jetty (both build & colour related ones, including those coming from some reviewers), but still choose to defend TLG's lazy 4ss approach are just coping too hard at this point.

2 hours ago, RichardGoring said:

4 hours ago, GameTime said:

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by F1stzz

[CAESARBLACK]

19 hours ago, zinnn said:

I've watched a few reviews on YT of this set, and DEAR LORD, that dock/jetty is ugly as hell. Not only the choice of black bricks, but the way it's constructed it screams 1980s not a modern remake of 2023. HUGE disappointment. More than before I'm leaning towards passing on this one...

to be blunt I think these sort of posts are counter productive. For the brick value , it is worth it alone. I will be MOC'ing it July 4th (assuming I can build it in time).

[Yperio_Bricks]

This is almost some Star Wars thread level of entertainment

Ask 1000 people which color wood has. There you have it. It doesn't matter if there is some wood out there that is shimmering purple in the right light 30 minutes before dawn or if it is 20 years old wood that has turned grey. If they don't want to use 1x4 or 1x6 reddish brown plates or printed plates like anyone else, i am sure Lego could come up with an solution other than the one which belongs into a museum

[Alexandrina]

23 minutes ago, F1stzz said:

People who've seen all the complaints about the jetty (both build & colour related ones, including those coming from some reviewers), but still choose to defend TLG's lazy 4ss approach are just coping too hard at this point.

If you don't like the set you don't like it - but the hostility towards people who do like the set is honestly baffling. It's a good set. The price-to-piece ratio is good (this is objectively true; whether it's worse than Barracuda Bay or not is immaterial, you're still getting over 2000 pieces for less than £200). And yet apparently this is a terrible set and we should all despise it?

26 minutes ago, F1stzz said:

I like how somebody formulated it on Insta somewhere: "as a standalone set — it's decent, as a remake — it is bad".

So if you yourself are happy to admit that it's a decent set, why are you so vitriolic towards people who like it and are talking about its good aspects?

15 minutes ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

Ask 1000 people which color wood has. There you have it.

Wood can be black. Wood can be painted. Tudor architecture (slightly earlier than the Pirates era, but latter day Tudors definitely overlapped with early Age of Sail) is commonly depicted as being black beams. In fact, there's a house by me from the 1600s called the Black and White House on account of its black wooden beams framing white wattle-and-daub. There's nothing wrong with Lego having a black dock.

[Yperio_Bricks]

7 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

Wood can be black. Wood can be painted. Tudor architecture (slightly earlier than the Pirates era, but latter day Tudors definitely overlapped with early Age of Sail) is commonly depicted as being black beams. In fact, there's a house by me from the 1600s called the Black and White House on account of its black wooden beams framing white wattle-and-daub. There's nothing wrong with Lego having a black dock.

Yeah i know. There are many medieval houses in my city and wood can be painted in any color If only people would admit they want the docks black because of nostalgia instead of bringing up, ehm, reasons. I am out of this this thread.

[Alexandrina]

Just now, Yperio_Bricks said:

If only people would admit they want the docks black because of nostalgia instead of bringing up, ehm, reasons.

Here's the thing: you don't get to tell someone else that they only want a black dock because of nostalgia. That's not always true. In fact, I specifically don't have nostalgia for Eldorado Fortress. I own the original, yes, but I bought it a month ago - hardly nostalgia worthy. Yet I still have no issue with a black dock for the reasons enumerated above. For me it makes perfect sense as a colour.

[F1stzz]

16 minutes ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

This is almost some Star Wars thread level of entertainment

Welp, at least we can have that 

16 minutes ago, Yperio_Bricks said:

If they don't want to use 1x4 or 1x6 reddish brown plates or printed plates like anyone else, i am sure Lego could come up with an solution other than the one which belongs into a museum

No, sir, you don't understand: stacking 2x2 black bricks on top of each other and slapping some narrow 2x6/8/12 black plates on all of it is a masterpiece and costs $200, TY 

4 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

The hostility towards people who do like the set is honestly baffling.

I believe I wasn't hostile towards anyone here, lol, but if you wish so...

16 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

...this is objectively true; whether it's worse than Barracuda Bay or not is immaterial, you're still getting over 2000 pieces for less than £200

No, it's not, and I provided clear examples of why that's the case. If you love to spend hundreds of dollars on pieces in general that have little to no clear thought or creativity behind them — you're welcome, there's a line called "Classic" for you to explore, which has all the pieces to pay for, stack 'em crates all you like  Such a logic should never be applied to anything outside the "Classic" line tho, otherwise you're at a high risk of being fed with tasteless lazy shite for your own money. If you're enjoying such a process & asking for more — good for you, don't expect me to join tho 

5 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

Why are you so vitriolic towards people who like it and are talking about its good aspects?

First of all — pay attention, we were not talking about set's good aspects. The recent convo was about the dock in particular, which looks like it was thrown together by a 5 year old child rather than experienced designer, OR it's because some guys in the company thought it'd be a great idea to save some production costs on what happens to be a front of the model in 2023. Whatever the reason — this kind of jetty design is BS in 2023, and that's a fact. Basically, you, as a customer, were robbed of an elegant modern & advanced design, but still asked to pay the full price for it + 10% for inflation. That's what's happening for real here. You have to be downright outta your senses as a customer not to recognise it.

Second — I'm not vitriolic towards anybody in this thread, I am tho towards The LEGO Group itself. They've lost the touch & are trying to sell us highly priced but cheaply approached copycat of the legendary classic purely by pulling the two key strings: nostalgia and hunger for the theme to return. This set screams "carelessness, corner cutting, lack of inspiration" & I don't want Pirates theme to turn into a "lazily made nostalgia driven cash grab once in few years". If you see all the obvious shortcomings & cons of this set that were mentioned in the reviews, comments on social medias, in this thread by various people, but still prefer to defend TLG's BS in disputes with me to the point of sacrificing your own interests as a customer — then yes, you may consider me vitriolic towards you, Karen, & justifiably so. Pirates theme is the GOAT for me personally, so I care about it accordingly & won't let anybody in their sane mind call the severe quality degradation in the theme's set "immaterial" in my presence. Such a type of careless mindset shown by consumers is truly one of the reasons the Pirates theme was brought into "once in a while (maybe)" category — alongside all the other great themes that made TLG what it is today. So I encourage you to stop pandering to TLG's tricks too much for your own good & more so at the expense of the Pirates sets quality.

[Jack Sassy]

7 hours ago, Mister Phes said:

This is Classic Pirates - there is no such thing as "too classic"

Aye, what I meant is that in some aspects, like the railing or the lantern it seems like taken right out of 1989. It seemed to me a bit out of place but now that I look at it more and more - aye, yer right. 

 

Overall, I do like this set, to me, it was about time they released a proper Pirates set. Sure, few quality problems are present but designers did a really good job capturing the essence while updating the look of the fortress itself. Praise to designers! 

[eldiano]

I’m buying this for the figures, any fan would know we can replace brick colors and swap out what we don’t like I.e brick made door on second floor but fact of the matter is that people indeed complained about the POBB masts and to add the cherry on top if the docks were brown, ya’ll would be saying it should had been better in black.

Lest we forget Lego has been getting away with charging overinflated prices, I am pretty sure if POBB was released today it would had been close to 230-250.  There’s no comparison, remember the 50 dollar increase from what was originally the Lion Knights castle? For the longest time we heard it was 350usd then just so happens that August was the day they increases said prices and we got it for 399.99 😭😭. 
 

there’s no going back.  
 

 

Edited June 21, 2023 by eldiano

[Doddsino]

23 hours ago, Wesley D said:

I fear LEGO has discovered nostalgia can make them easy money.

Absolutely agreed.

That's one of the reasons I'm not going to pick up this set.

I don't want Lego going all "Disney Live Action Remake" with their sets.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Doddsino

[Captain Roger]

I feel dissapointed. Reasons:

1) Very similar to original. Pirates of Barracuda bay was a great set because it wasn't a remake of an old set only. It was an island you can transform into a ship or viceversa. Very original idea, specially when the island was very different from other pirate bases like Rocky Reef or Skull Island. However, this set offers no new properties at all, compared with 1989 set.

2) No pirate captain minifig

3) The design of the coffer is worse than original Lego coffers

4) The monkey can't move its legs or arms

5) The Shakos haven't got printed parts like 2009 and 2015.

6) one of the original doors is a plate in the new set.

I think it doesn't worth if you have the 1989 set.

[Sir Dano]

5 hours ago, RichiPuppy said:

 I guess they should have made a new base plate.

I'd be the one complaining then. I'll take a brick built base full of fun details like treasure and caves over a raised baseplate any day.

[Doddsino]

21 hours ago, Jack Sassy said:

Come now, what be a LEGO set without minor modifications? Sure, it isn't a perfect but it be a good set, and for that, we have to give this one a chance in hopes of LEGO making more Pirates sets in the future. Maybe it is just fake optimism but I am willing to give this one a chance to at least show those statistics that LEGO Pirates still rock! 

See, I admire your positive approach, but I just can't agree.

If I'm buying a new car off the lot, I don't want to be reassured that I can make modifications if I'm uncomfortable with something. I bought the car to drive off the lot, not to alter. I'm buying the set for the set.

And if the suggestion is to make modifications to the set, may as well just build my own from scratch if I'm going to "make the set my own". Swapping a few pieces is one thing, but needing to rebuild entire sections? That's not a "yes buy". If I'm not 100% happy with how the set looks, then I'm not going to purchase it. And yes, you can be happy with how a set looks but still make modifications.

Eldorado Fortress looks like a hodge podge of things. When it comes to what I prefer with a classic looking set, it should appear "grander" more than "elaborate", not that there isn't anything wrong with elaborate. There's needless detail to bolster the price and the piece count when they could have met in the middle to iron that out, and to maintain the integrity of the original set, which looks far better than this uninspired remake.

For your last point, I cannot and will not reward Lego if the belief is that they won't create any other Pirate sets if we don't buy this one. If anything, it'll enable them to continue to go down the lazy road of taking old sets, reimagining them in a sterile fashion that doesn't innovate or even evolve in their approach.

Don't reward mediocrity.

[jodawill]

9 minutes ago, Captain Roger said:

I feel dissapointed. Reasons:

1) Very similar to original. Pirates of Barracuda bay was a great set because it wasn't a remake of an old set only. It was an island you can transform into a ship or viceversa. Very original idea, specially when the island was very different from other pirate bases like Rocky Reef or Skull Island. However, this set offers no new properties at all, compared with 1989 set.

These are actually the reasons I like this one and not the other. PoBB was just a huge mess. In my opinion, the island configuration subtracted from the set. It didn't add any value. I actually think it would have sold a lot better if they had released the ship alone. I honestly don't see how anyone looks at that big pile of crap and says, "Oh, I have to have this!" It's like Shipwreck Island. As a kid, I wanted to get it because it had some cool parts. But even back then, I thought, "What exactly is this supposed to be?"

Eldorado Fortress was before my time. I wasn't even aware of its existence until I was an adult. I bought it off Craigslist about 10 years ago. I think I paid $50 for both it and Forestmen's Crossing, which was a steal back then, but highway robbery going off today's prices. I have no nostalgia associated with it, but to me, it's one of the greatest masterpieces Lego has ever made. I love that this new version takes the same design and just steps it up a notch. I never wanted the Lion Knights Castle treatment. It's such a design as it is, I've always thought that the improvements should come from the possibilities that new pieces give the designers.

The things I see people complaining about are really trivial to change. It would only take a few common pieces to enlarge the dock and make it brown. You could copy the palm trees from PoBB if you don't like the classic look. Personally, I prefer the classic palm trees because they look like Lego. One of the issues I have with a lot of modern designs is that they become so sophisticated, they lose the charm that makes Lego so great. That's why I'm not a fan of things like the new crocodile. I think 10320 does a perfect job keeping the Lego charm while still making improvements, at least as far as they could go without making new molds.

I definitely agree about the door. I hate plate doors. I doubt the designer had any options here. If I could be president of Lego, I'd bring back a lot of the old molds:

• Monkey torso
• Palm tree trunks (redesigned so they don't wear out)
• Large palm leaves
• Original parrot (dual molded is so much inferior to the printed ones!)
• Original crocodile and dragon
• Castle doors in at least two sizes
• Plumes... all of the plumes
• Coins

I would also bring back the original jolly roger. The original prints weren't really the best quality. They really ought to make some really crisp new ones.

I'm also glad the shakos aren't printed. They'll probably be between 17 to 25 cents on PAB. If they were printed, they'd probably be $1.25 or more. I kind of prefer the way they look too, although I like both.

[Aanchir]

54 minutes ago, Jack Sassy said:

Aye, what I meant is that in some aspects, like the railing or the lantern it seems like taken right out of 1989. It seemed to me a bit out of place but now that I look at it more and more - aye, yer right. 

I get what you mean about the railings, but I'm also not too sure what better approach there is for railings as short as these ones Even the Barracuda remake from PoBB used this same "old-school" cones+tiles approach for many of its railings, albeit sometimes with the newer "macaroni tiles" in that case instead of just rectangular ones.

I suppose for the lantern they could have used the newer lantern piece upside-down like Barracuda Bay did for its stern lights instead of the old lantern/palm tree fork piece, but in terms of design quality I feel that would've been more of a lateral move than an advancement. Neither of these two lantern designs strikes me as implicitly better or worse than the other.

9 minutes ago, Captain Roger said:

The design of the coffer is worse than original Lego coffers

LEGO still makes the old treasure chest lids, and they appear in several of this year's sets (even some of the latest Friends and City sets)!

I suspect that LEGO opted for the flat trunk lids in this set for two main reasons. First, this lid allows the trunks and barrels to be easily stacked on top of one another when moving cargo from the ship to the fort or vice-versa. Thus, the ship can carry quite a bit more cargo than if it could only be stacked one layer high. Second, this trunk lid was not available in any previous Pirates sets (not even PoBB or the 3-in-1 pirate ship), so LEGO probably figured including it here would offer more novelty and parts value for pirate builders than including three of the standard treasure chests that a lot of us already have an ample supply of.

17 minutes ago, Captain Roger said:

one of the original doors is a plate in the new set.

I have mixed feelings about the front doors being changed to barred gates, but I actually like the change to the office door. In the original set, the half-arch shape of the office door always seemed a bit awkward to me since it didn't match either the size or the shape of the door frame.

That said, I do kind of wish that the office door were tiled like the brick-built doors from 21325 or 10305 instead of being fully studded. Studs can work on a brick-built door if they represent something specific like rivets or embossed details, but when they cover the whole surface of the door like this they just feel kind of meaningless and distracting.

And in fact, if you remove the 1x2 handle plates that aren't connected to anything and replaced them with tiles, the studs on the remaining handle plates would roughly correspond to the position of the molded rivets on the old half-arch door mold. Realizing that makes me wish even more that the designers had taken that approach.

[Lion King]

I can’t decide if I can buy that fortress or not - i never own any pirates sets. I mean ANY. not the 2015 Piates theme. Not the Classic Pirates Theme. Not even the Imperial or Islander themes. Not that Ideas PoBB set (I regret missing the opportunity). 

I am hoping there would be a molded hull ship somedays but it may be expsnive. But I LOVE that ship in the set!

[Jack Sassy]

5 minutes ago, Doddsino said:

Don't reward mediocrity.

I see yer point. However, to me, LEGO is all about changing things to me own liking because it is impossible for a set to please each LEGO fan in the world. Despite numerous flaws, I still see this as a lovely remake and feel that the criticism is a bit harsh. Dunno, maybe it is just the fake optimism I have after 3 years of no Pirates. 

10 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

I get what you mean about the railings, but I'm also not too sure what better approach there is for railings as short as these ones Even the Barracuda remake from PoBB used this same "old-school" cones+tiles approach for many of its railings, albeit sometimes with the newer "macaroni tiles" in that case instead of just rectangular ones.

I suppose for the lantern they could have used the newer lantern piece upside-down like Barracuda Bay did for its stern lights instead of the old lantern/palm tree fork piece, but in terms of design quality I feel that would've been more of a lateral move than an advancement. Neither of these two lantern designs strikes me as implicitly better or worse than the other.

At this point, design has grown on me. 

[Arjo]

Well F1stzzz, whilst I think you might have gotten carried away in your last post, I can see where you are coming from. Your post before that, you also made a decent argument re. POBB being a better value for money set... and yet at the time I (and others) did not go for it (see Jodawill's rationale). However, this time around you are willing to pass on this set but others will not. It goes to show that, as always, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Yes TLG are pulling a number of strings to boost sales (nostalgia, fear of missing out...) and it hurts us AFOLs because though we may think we are savvy customers the truth of the matter is we are in fact addicts. Any lego maths is folly, there is not a set out there, big or small, that is not in fact overpriced (and yes it is getting worse). I do not believe in buying/skipping sets to send messages to TLG, I agree it is a specious argument presented by some but their enthusiasm is comparable to yours though at the other end of the spectrum.

Who knows, maybe when you get to see the set with your own eyes you will be swayed (and others will in fact have second thoughts). Could be you see some mods or expansions (with additional sets or separate bricks) that will eventually tempt you. Or maybe you will stick to your current truth about the set, good for your wallet, less so for your psyche given how passionate about the Pirates them you are. Not much anyone on this forum can do about it, so maybe let others enjoy it for what it is.

[jodawill]

It really is a shame though that this set doesn't really introduce any new minifigures. We have a generic pirate with no new parts and a redesign of a female pirate that already exists, and the rest of the minifigures are just updates on existing minifigures. It would have been great to have gotten at least one truly original minifigure here, whether it be Camilla or something similar to Steve. The Flynn Ryder minifigure in the new Disney castle would actually have been the best new character in Eldorado Fortress if they had put it in this set instead. I've seen licensed torsos on PAB occasionally. I hope that one shows up, but I'm not holding my breath.

[Alexandrina]

2 hours ago, F1stzz said:

No, it's not, and I provided clear examples of why that's the case. If you love to spend hundreds of dollars on pieces in general that have little to no clear thought or creativity behind them — you're welcome, there's a line called "Classic" for you to explore, which has all the pieces to pay for, stack 'em crates all you like  Such a logic should never be applied to anything outside the "Classic" line tho, otherwise you're at a high risk of being fed with tasteless lazy shite for your own money. If you're enjoying such a process & asking for more — good for you, don't expect me to join tho 

No, you're talking about a different metric - value for money, which is subjective. Price per piece is as objective a measure as you can get. The set costs a certain price, it contains a certain number of pieces.

2 hours ago, F1stzz said:

yes, you may consider me vitriolic towards you, Karen, & justifiably so.

And why do you feel the need to name-call? Who does that help? And just because you don't like a set (which is fine, nobody has to like a set and nobody has to buy a set) doesn't mean that people who do like the set are "outta your senses" and "need to stop pandering".

[Doddsino]

1 hour ago, Jack Sassy said:

I see yer point. However, to me, LEGO is all about changing things to me own liking because it is impossible for a set to please each LEGO fan in the world. Despite numerous flaws, I still see this as a lovely remake and feel that the criticism is a bit harsh. Dunno, maybe it is just the fake optimism I have after 3 years of no Pirates. 

Oh I get, man.

Pirates were probably the series I was most involved in, growing up. I was really disappointed when they got discontinued in 1997, although the sets they released that year were pretty weak.

I want nothing more than for Pirates to come back, and come back strong. But that starts with Lego putting in the work. 

If we accept them at the minimal, then that's what they're going to give us. It's the Disney mindset.

[Jack Sassy]

40 minutes ago, Doddsino said:

If we accept them at the minimal, then that's what they're going to give us. It's the Disney mindset.

What is the Disney mindset?

[F1stzz]

1 hour ago, eldiano said:

Any fan would know we can replace brick colors and swap out what we don’t like I.e brick made door on second floor.

M8, the fact I can replace the dock with whatever I see fitting doesn't automatically make the aforementioned dock a masterpiece & nicely designed. It doesn't work this way. In fact, when the customer needs to replace the entire section in a pricey set on his/her own — that more often than not indicates the problem being there with the initial design. That's what people are addressing here — the problem with the initial design. Also, you may sometimes change things even if you like the initial approach, so all in all this argument is pointless. The fact of the matter is, there were dozens of years of evolution & progress in building techniques — I'd like to see the culmination of this development in a new $200+ releases, not a degradation, please, thanks.

41 minutes ago, Doddsino said:

Don't reward mediocrity.

T H I S. Wholeheartedly agree with the whole take, as this is how things should always be look at. Hats off to you, sir 

9 minutes ago, Arjo said:

F1stzz, whilst I think you might have gotten carried away in your last post...

That's true & I admit it, tho I have a very clear reasoning behind everything I said.

10 minutes ago, Arjo said:

You also made a decent argument re. POBB being a better value for money set... and yet at the time I (and others) did not go for it (see Jodawill's rationale)

"PoBB was a better value for money than what we have with 10320 now" & "we didn't buy 21322 cuz of reasons" are statements that kinda lie in different areas, don't you think? You may have passed on 21322 & gonna grab 10320 — but that circumstance doesn't suddenly make the Eldorado Fortress a better value set overall.

20 minutes ago, Arjo said:

However, this time around you are willing to pass on this set but others will not.

You're putting words in my mouth here. I've clearly stated earlier that I'll most likely go ahead & buy this set, cuz I don't have the original 6276 & don't wanna miss on the modularity of the new one, which gives some good space for mods. You're confusing frustration & disappointment with a definite pass here. 

26 minutes ago, Arjo said:

There is not a set out there, big or small, that is not in fact overpriced (and yes it is getting worse).

There's a difference between paying something over for a certainly great product overall — and paying as much for a set that has numerous widely exposed cons in it. As I've said once, while PoBB purchase felt like a holiday & resurgence — 10320 already feels like a bittersweet one. The choice I personally get in this situation is either to pay God knows how much for a new 6276 copy — and then modify it, which will be harder to do since the set has a pre-moulded baseplate & the upgrade will still be pricey; or buy a used 6276 — but it's "used", so I'll have to wait & search for the better copy, & deal with all the trouble I've mentioned previously anyway; or buy 10320, cuz the main point is I need to have the Eldorado Fortress for my Bluecoats regardless. What do you think is the most reasonable solution here? Isn't it obvious? My frustration with 10320 cons comes from the fact that I don't want to pay three times more for an OLDER model, which I'd still be upgrading, while the new set makes the modification process miles easier & cheaper — but at the same time 10320 has quite a list of flaws that are disappointing & were possible to avoid if TLG cared for real. But with all that, buying 10320 is still the cheapest & the most convenient solution in my case, so what else I have to do. This is where the talk about "the value for the price" comes from & it's reasonable from my standpoint.

53 minutes ago, Arjo said:

Maybe let others enjoy it for what it is.

I've been constantly saying that people are free to agree or disagree with my statements & those shouldn't influence the mindset of anyone towards the 10320. We're just having a discussion here & voicing opinions, nobody's in control of anybody's wallet. Tho I do find quite worrisome the fact that those who are openly & rightfully criticizing the obvious "in yo face" negatives of the set are receiving a backlash (in few occasions — an aggressive one) towards them, which tells me we have a case of TLG worshipping that's gone a bit too far & is not healthy at all. I'd like to enjoy this set, but it just doesn't allow me to do so with its lack of accessories, supplies, wacky part usage & designing, questionable minifigure selection & so on. I'm not gonna unconsciously enjoy & sing praises to what's obviously badly & cheaply executed set at such a price point, as well as I'm not intending to make the audience to turn on it (I don't know how am I supposed to turn anybody on the set I've personally proclaimed I'm gonna get, lol). Again, there are pretty obvious flaws in this set, a great amount of them, some of them are overshadowing the positives, so I'd suggest we can talk about it openly & admit their existence instead of trying to inhale more copium every time those get to be mentioned. 

[F1stzz]

2 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

Price per piece is as objective a measure as you can get. The set costs a certain price, it contains a certain number of pieces.

The so-called "price-per-piece" metric is pretty much useless for customers as it doesn't represent the actual value of the set. Saying "price-per-piece is good" while implying "the set is good" is in fact a manipulation that only serves well to the manufacturer, not the customer. To make it clear: you can have 200 of various gray bricks which cost the same as the complete set built with this exact amount of different coloured bricks/plates/pins/whatever — but it doesn't mean the value of both is equal just because one pile of blocks has the same price as the other pile which is a complete set. It's just a pointless argument really.

2 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

And just because you don't like a set (which is fine, nobody has to like a set and nobody has to buy a set)...

Oh, so now I'm allowed not to like the cons & talk about it openly without being blamed for hostility towards anybody in this thread (which never existed in the first place)? That's nice, I guess the name-calling did help to some extent then.

2 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

...doesn't mean that people who do like the set are "outta your senses" and "need to stop pandering".

People, who do like 10320, are free to like it & there's nothing wrong with that. Something's wrong tho with people, who are jumping at those who dare to criticise the clear negatives of this set. It's not a normal behaviour to start labeling rightfully disappointed & frustrated people as "vitriolic" & stuff — those who do that are indeed outta their senses & should indeed stop pandering. I have no idea why all of a sudden it's critiques who have to defend their position & not the company who has F'd up the expectations for the product big time. "Agreeing or disagreeing" works both ways, in case some have forgotten. I really hope that from this point forward we're not gonna climb out of our skin trying to justify the existence of a long time outdated/lazy 4ss designs & approaches in modern LEGO products with a high price tag, which are aimed for the collectors and adults, just for the sake of disagreeing.