42160 Audi RS Q e-tron

[gyenesvi]

2 hours ago, R0Sch said:

Also it's clear from the 360° that the front wheel hubs will not be red and the ends are indeed 72008 elements.
https://www.lego.com/cdn/cs/set/assets/bltddadebb7f808847f/42160_v1.mp4

The steering linkage seems to be doubled up just as in case of 42099.

I was wondering whether the new wheel hubs will have the steering arm in the middle as the planetary hub has, or offset one stud as the regular wheel hub has. Based on the position of the red piece, I'd guess its offset. Also, my guess is that the hub will have the towball integrated, just like in case of the planetary (otherwise the pinhole would collide with the CV joint's head).

Also, I have been wondering about the speed of the model. If the gearing is 1:1 to the diff from the motor, it should be about 2x faster than 42099. With slightly weaker motors, but also with a ton less friction in the drivetrain. Wonder how that will actually play out!

[Paul B Technic]

I don't mind this. Depending on the price, it might be worth it.

[msk6003]

Maybe it will not corrrect but towball with half pin will make new hub has pin hole.

Edited June 6, 2023 by msk6003

[gyenesvi]

44 minutes ago, msk6003 said:

Maybe it will not corrrect but towball with half pin will make new hub has pin hole.

That's an interesting idea I also thought about but I doubt TLG would deem that stable enough, even if the half stud part had friction (which does not exist either in any pin).

[Zerobricks]

29 minutes ago, gyenesvi said:

That's an interesting idea I also thought about but I doubt TLG would deem that stable enough, even if the half stud part had friction (which does not exist either in any pin).

Exactly, half a pin wide arm would just break off. I think the general shape is the same as the normal CV hub, albeit with fixed pins. The towballs seems to be offset by half a stud at the hub, due to the use of those weird parts, hope it doesn't affect the steering system too much...

Also, I think description is meant to say new wheel hub element, not just a new wheel element. Also there's no mention of AWD in description,even though it's one of the most important features...

Edited June 6, 2023 by Zerobricks

[gyenesvi]

42 minutes ago, Zerobricks said:

The towballs seems to be offset by half a stud at the hub, due to the use of those weird parts, hope it doesn't affect the steering system too much...

I wondered the same. I do think it is misaligned by half a stud on the wheel hub end, but I can see on the 360 video that it has those red connectors on both linkages (in front and behind the axle), and I think the two together sort of cancel out the effect and keep it straight (push/pull the wheel in both directions equally; the misalignment might even result in a linkage with less wobbling). Otherwise I think a misalignment would be noticeable in this somewhat faster RC car.

[Zerobricks]

37 minutes ago, gyenesvi said:

I wondered the same. I do think it is misaligned by half a stud on the wheel hub end, but I can see on the 360 video that it has those red connectors on both linkages (in front and behind the axle), and I think the two together sort of cancel out the effect and keep it straight (push/pull the wheel in both directions equally; the misalignment might even result in a linkage with less wobbling). Otherwise I think a misalignment would be noticeable in this somewhat faster RC car.

Exactly, they push/pull on the system a bit but utimately cancel each other out. I did a bit of quick LDD sketching up and the front wheels are driven directly by an L motor. Steering is driven by an L motor on top of the FWD drive motor via a pair of 16 tooth gears. The rear wheels are driven by an L motor via 3 16-tooth gears. All diffs are the Daytona ones. The front suspension seems to be able to swing independently.

[Zerobricks]

Found another photo of the set, showing the new hubs more in detail:

So the new hub seems to be almost identical to the current ungeared one when it comes to attachment points, the only difference is that towball pins are fixed and that it can accept the new, stronger CV joint. I'm gonna keep digging for more details about the inboard CV joints.

[1gor]

26 minutes ago, Zerobricks said:

Found another photo of the set, showing the new hubs more in detail:

 

So the new hub seems to be almost identical to the current ungeared one when it comes to attachment points, the only difference is that towball pins are fixed and that it can accept the new, stronger CV joint. I'm gonna keep digging for more details about the inboard CV joints.

And it seems no reduction? Or there will be very high upgearing comming from motors (if this is 42099 hub)?

[keymaker]

29 minutes ago, 1gor said:

And it seems no reduction? Or there will be very high upgearing comming from motors (if this is 42099 hub)?

Of course there will be no reduction. You have hubs with reduction introduced in 42099. This one will have new hubs accepting big CV joints, no reduction.

[Zerobricks]

43 minutes ago, 1gor said:

And it seems no reduction? Or there will be very high upgearing comming from motors (if this is 42099 hub)?

No reduction, the only gearing is 14:22 from L motor to differential. I have a feeling the new hub will slowly replace the old, current ungeared one, since it has a stronger mounting points (towballs are part of the hub), higher steering angle (some 40°) and can carry much higher torque. I only wish they would actually have used 6 pins to attach the wheel instead of just 3, it would make the wheels almost impossible to fall off.

[1gor]

5 minutes ago, Zerobricks said:

 I have a feeling the new hub will slowly replace the old, current ungeared one, since it has a stronger mounting points (towballs are part of the hub), higher steering angle (some 40°) and can carry much higher torque. I only wish they would actually have used 6 pins to attach the wheel instead of just 3, it would make the wheels almost impossible to fall off.

I have that feeling too buddy

[zoo]

1 hour ago, Zerobricks said:

No reduction, the only gearing is 14:22 from L motor to differential. I have a feeling the new hub will slowly replace the old, current ungeared one, since it has a stronger mounting points (towballs are part of the hub), higher steering angle (some 40°) and can carry much higher torque. I only wish they would actually have used 6 pins to attach the wheel instead of just 3, it would make the wheels almost impossible to fall off.

I am not so sure about that. If the part that attaches to the wheel is "fixed" to the hub and not removable (like with the current planetary gear hub), you still need a different version if you want the option to include break discs or not. I wouldn't be suprised if we see a new hub introduced with in a 1:8 car in the not too distant future though.

[Zerobricks]

32 minutes ago, zoo said:

I am not so sure about that. If the part that attaches to the wheel is "fixed" to the hub and not removable (like with the current planetary gear hub), you still need a different version if you want the option to include break discs or not. I wouldn't be suprised if we see a new hub introduced with in a 1:8 car in the not too distant future though.

With the introduction of Daytona's bigger wheels an updated hub brake disc with a larger diameter would be welcome... 

[Equilibrium]

Having fixed towballs also limits mounting options to only two parts. Old hub will still be used everywhere where we don't want/can't use towball arms.

[1gor]

4 minutes ago, Equilibrium said:

Having fixed towballs also limits mounting options to only two parts. Old hub will still be used everywhere where we don't want/can't use towball arms.

Or TLC will make shorter arms (4L)...

[Krxlion]

Great discovery @Zerobricks. I was curious about any news regarding new wheel hubs and here they are! I do not know though if 6 pin connection would be that great. It sounds good at first, but in harsh circumstances the wheel could pop out with a part of wheel hub. There is no proof yet about fixed towballs, so let us wait for more details, maybe there will be ones that can be disconnected.

[Jundis]

19 minutes ago, Krxlion said:

It sounds good at first, but in harsh circumstances the wheel could pop out with a part of wheel hub

I think even attaching a wheel to 6 pins will be too hard for kids, 3 pins are really sufficient for any normal application in my opinion.

10 hours ago, 1gor said:

Or TLC will make shorter arms (4L)...

Yes please!

[gyenesvi]

26 minutes ago, Krxlion said:

There is no proof yet about fixed towballs, so let us wait for more details, maybe there will be ones that can be disconnected.

There is no room for a pin connection next to the new CV joint head, as it is wider than 1 stud, so the only option seems to be the fixed one.

15 hours ago, Zerobricks said:

So the new hub seems to be almost identical to the current ungeared one when it comes to attachment points, the only difference is that towball pins are fixed and that it can accept the new, stronger CV joint. I'm gonna keep digging for more details about the inboard CV joints.

Unfortunately not too much is visible on this image, but the hub part itself seems a bit wider though, like the planetary one. I hope the play in the rotating part will be less than the old one, something like the planetary, which is better in that respect.

10 hours ago, 1gor said:

Or TLC will make shorter arms (4L)...

Or even shorter, 2L or 3L, or something L shaped with a towball socket. That would be more useful for solid axles.

[1gor]

3 hours ago, gyenesvi said:

 

Or even shorter, 2L or 3L, or something L shaped with a towball socket. That would be more useful for solid axles.

That would be dream come true; but I'm very happy with red 43.2mm rims and tires that are perfect fit for my Unimog

[Zerobricks]

I hope the new hubs are also fixed more secure... Was driving the motorized Peugeot 9x8 mod and literally almost all the normal, current hubs failed and came apart. I think this has to do with the new redesign of the hubs which uses softer material... 

[gyenesvi]

3 hours ago, Zerobricks said:

I hope the new hubs are also fixed more secure... Was driving the motorized Peugeot 9x8 mod and literally almost all the normal, current hubs failed and came apart. I think this has to do with the new redesign of the hubs which uses softer material... 

Do you mean the inner rotating part (that has the pins) coming out? I would actually guess that this new hub might be packaged as a single piece like the planetary one. With the new CV joint head it would not be possible to make the inner side separate and push it in from the outside, like the old one, so it may be only possible to have it preassembled. Which would make it inseparable.

[Zerobricks]

1 hour ago, gyenesvi said:

Do you mean the inner rotating part (that has the pins) coming out? I would actually guess that this new hub might be packaged as a single piece like the planetary one. With the new CV joint head it would not be possible to make the inner side separate and push it in from the outside, like the old one, so it may be only possible to have it preassembled. Which would make it inseparable.

Yes, the inner dark bluish gray part pops out. I have built lots of supercars using this part and at least at 1:10 scale I never had an issue...until now, that is why I suspect material change. Ideally the new hub would be attached in a simillar way as the small turntable using several independent latches and have same kind of a good fit.

[astyanax]

3 hours ago, Zerobricks said:

I suspect material change

Evidently there's been a material change in Technic connectors over the past 1-2 years. Nowadays they're much softer to the touch, and in some scenarios they have ways less clutch power. For example try this:

Take a and push the studs of a 1x2 plate into the pinholes. Super tight fit!

Now take the new version and push the same 1x2 plate's studs into the pinholes. The plate almost falls out by itself...

(Of course: YMMV. But this is my experience with many Technic connectors!)

[Maaboo the Witch]

1 hour ago, astyanax said:

Evidently there's been a material change in Technic connectors over the past 1-2 years. Nowadays they're much softer to the touch, and in some scenarios they have ways less clutch power. For example try this:

Take a [snip] and push the studs of a 1x2 plate into the pinholes. Super tight fit!

Now take the new version [snip] and push the same 1x2 plate's studs into the pinholes. The plate almost falls out by itself...

(Of course: YMMV. But this is my experience with many Technic connectors!)

It's easier to insert axles into the newer connector as well.