Lira_Bricks

Earlier acting on problem-giving subjects

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Ever since a certain controversial set had been announced by Lego a few months back, a lot of topics are being used by opponents that complain about the values behind the set and the people it is representing.

The problem is that opponents of the set will always have the first say, people that are being represented in the set really do not want to talk about it all the time.

Any time the conversation is steered towards dislike for the represented people, moderators only step in once there is already conflict. But at that point it really is already too late.

So my question: can comments and posts about hate towards certain groups of people be dealt with immediately? We all know how all those conversations/conflicts end.

Edited by Lira_Bricks
fixed typo

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for this. I think it’s also an important part of the issue that there’s a ‘narrative’ that certain people are unreasonable, angry or hysterical - but it is always used as way to silence progressive opinions on here. Think of the tropes of angry black people, militant gay rights, or hysterical women. Many others simply get the message to ‘be quiet’.
In reality people are hurt and defending themselves, and arguably are only angry because they’re paying attention.

I have no clue what else I’m supposed to do when I see an inappropriate comment about LGBTQ+ issues (etc). If there is no action from moderators, then I know that others have seen it, and it’s been left as ‘okay’. So, if people like me step in and say it’s not, we are not being controversial, or stirring, or political, we are trying to make sure that hurtful and denigrating comments are not left to stand for the many other (quieter) contributors they will affect.

Ultimately that’s about making this forum a welcoming and safe place as much as we can. 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 minutes ago, williejm said:

angry black people, militant gay rights, or hysterical women

All subjects that are not about LEGO. and this being a website dedicated to LEGO, those issues should be taken elsewhere

I too want to be safe :wink:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Or alternatively, if it is "already too late" the threads should not even be started if the goal is to discuss anything outside of a construction toy.

Eurobricks is a platform for fans of LEGO to discuss creative building, collecting and display. A platform for games played with the toy and media based on or connected too the LEGO brand.

It is not a platform for social or political change to be spearheaded. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
37 minutes ago, Peppermint_M said:

Or alternatively, if it is "already too late" the threads should not even be started if the goal is to discuss anything outside of a construction toy.

Eurobricks is a platform for fans of LEGO to discuss creative building, collecting and display. A platform for games played with the toy and media based on or connected too the LEGO brand.

It is not a platform for social or political change to be spearheaded. 

What? So the threads about ‘Everyone is Awesome’, an official Lego set, accompanied with video from the designer, who happens to be a VP of the company, explaining what it represented and why it was important to him, and to LEGO as a brand, shouldn’t have been started? Because those are some threads we are talking about.

LEGO itself has decided to step up on social issues, and things some on here call ‘political’ (they tend not to be political if you live them), so it’s kinda hard to see how this platform can disassociate the sets, the sentiment and the social impact. Ultimately the impact for many of us identifying as LGBTQ+is the same, it is denigrating, dismissive, and being told we are wrong just for being. I can’t speak to other minority groups, but would not be surprised if this was similar on related topics. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Posted (edited)

@Jim

These people started a topic they don't want to be started by others.
Delete it please.

It's not about lego
It's just clickbait

Edited by JaBaCaDaBra

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, JaBaCaDaBra said:

@Jim

These people started a topic they don't want to be started by others.
Delete it please.

It's not about lego
It's just clickbait

It’s a thread in ‘Forum Information & help’ suggesting something for forums. Yes it’s referring to a specific example, but it doesn’t have to be specific in how that suggestion could be applied. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, 1974 said:

All subjects that are not about LEGO. and this being a website dedicated to LEGO, those issues should be taken elsewhere

I too want to be safe :wink:

Which should go both ways. I've been pretty inactive in the last month or so - only checking by every couple of days and then seldom posting - because of the fallout from the Everyone Is Awesome topic, during which one user decided to persistently deny my gender (this, fortunately, was dealt with by the mods) and others left the environment rather hostile. The first message here seems a reasonable one - hate, when hate appears, should be shut down, so that everyone can safely come to this place and talk about Lego. There's nowhere that quite measures up to it!

22 minutes ago, JaBaCaDaBra said:

It's just clickbait

I must have missed something then - because last time I checked, "clickbait" would apply if this was a thread with a deceptive title designed to falsely entice people to reading the thread (as, say, if someone posted a thread called "OFFICIAL: Lego announces wave of LOST sets"). Whether or not one agrees with the premise of the thread, it's hard to argue that the title isn't representative of the thread.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do you want done then!? 

As I mentioned elsewhere: Any action or inaction on staff part is wrong

Just as it is a twisty Gordian knot of an issue in life, it is just the same anywhere else.

As long as someone is in any way different to someone else one or other party has grounds to disagree. Good or bad grounds is moot, people will disagree.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Peppermint_M said:

What do you want done then!? 

As I mentioned elsewhere: Any action or inaction on staff part is wrong

Just as it is a twisty Gordian knot of an issue in life, it is just the same anywhere else.

As long as someone is in any way different to someone else one or other party has grounds to disagree. Good or bad grounds is moot, people will disagree.

But some things are not up for discussion, surely? I’m aware Ts&Cs just vaguely refer to ‘religion’ and ‘politics’, but maybe that needs revisited. Surely overt sexism, racism, ableism and homophobia is not okay? 

It gets tedious to point it out, but in ‘both-sides’ -ing this, rather than being reasonable, only one side suffers. The bigoted side is perfectly happy if all of the comments are shut down, shouted down, or otherwise made to go away. Defending their status quo is about maintaining that privilege and silencing everything else. It’s a mob mentality, and it works fine if you’re in the majority or want to be part of the gang.

On the other side, I am not different to someone else through choice, I’m gay becuase I’m gay. Just like if I was black or a wheelchair user, it’s not a choice or a thing that is okay for someone else to take issue with.

I appreciate you might think this is impossible and a pain in the blocks, but I really think Eurobricks is really behind the times on this stuff, and it’s making the site, which I have been a member of for almost ten years, an increasingly unpleasant place to be. Maybe that’s okay, maybe I’m not welcome here. Maybe that’s the site the site wants to be. If so - let it be honest about that, rather than trying to dismiss concerns, and in turn entrenching established prejudice. 

The initial post was pretty reasonable - simply asking for quicker moderation on topics that are likely to attract ‘controversy’. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are not actually answering the question: What do you want us to do?

As a staff member for ten years, I have seen the forum go from somewhere people came to share their creative efforts and discuss sets to somewhere members only want to complain about what they don't like and argue with each other. 

To prevent any abuse is to shut the entire discussion down. But that is wrong as you have said it makes the other side happy!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, Peppermint_M said:

You are not actually answering the question: What do you want us to do?

As a staff member for ten years, I have seen the forum go from somewhere people came to share their creative efforts and discuss sets to somewhere members only want to complain about what they don't like and argue with each other. 

To prevent any abuse is to shut the entire discussion down. But that is wrong as you have said it makes the other side happy!

My suggestions (though I think this should be a wider consult with more people) 

Revise the Ts & Cs

Explicitly say what is not acceptable in terms of ‘politics’

Intervene on behalf of the groups getting the abuse, promptly, so that they don’t have to decide whether to defend themselves.

perhaps one thing would be to take a step back and see if the moderators have adequate representation of people from minority groups, that sort of inclusivity can help. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 minutes ago, Peppermint_M said:

To prevent any abuse is to shut the entire discussion down.

That's not true. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I was on the receiving end of some transphobic abuse in the Everyone Is Awesome thread a while back. I reported the abuse, and the offending comments were removed, and the member dealt with. The discussion continued for some time after that, before the thread was eventually locked.

I can only speak for myself: but what I want is to be safe in the knowledge that if I'm singled out for abuse, it will be dealt with. In fairness, that has generally happened thus far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, williejm said:

perhaps one thing would be to take a step back and see if the moderators have adequate representation of people from minority groups, that sort of inclusivity can help. 

Going to have to stop you there. No one on staff or any other members should be forced to out themselves so we can say we are "properly representative." 

Speaking for myself, I honestly prefer it be known that I am a nerdy LEGO fan than anything else. I prefer to remain private on matters and so could other staff.

2 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

That's not true. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I was on the receiving end of some transphobic abuse in the Everyone Is Awesome thread a while back. I reported the abuse, and the offending comments were removed, and the member dealt with. The discussion continued for some time after that, before the thread was eventually locked.

I can only speak for myself: but what I want is to be safe in the knowledge that if I'm singled out for abuse, it will be dealt with. In fairness, that has generally happened thus far.

True, but in the context I was replying to, it seemed to be the only workable solution.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
9 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

That's not true. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, I was on the receiving end of some transphobic abuse in the Everyone Is Awesome thread a while back. I reported the abuse, and the offending comments were removed, and the member dealt with. The discussion continued for some time after that, before the thread was eventually locked.

I can only speak for myself: but what I want is to be safe in the knowledge that if I'm singled out for abuse, it will be dealt with. In fairness, that has generally happened thus far.

In my recollection I know I also reported the transphobic comments, and it took a bit of back & forth to see them acted on. 

It is also worth saying out loud HOW IMPORTANT that The Everything is Awesome set is to so many of us LGBTQ+ lego fans. To see the discussion on that (an official Lego set, designed by a gay VP,  in Pride Month, celebrating Pride and diversity) be mired in abuse and homophobia, and that not to be directly challenged or acted on by mods, then for the threads to be locked down as if it was a ‘both sides’ issue is pretty horrible. 

I would go further and say that I want other LGBTQ+ users who might not be as confident as myself or @Alexandrina to be able to post and engage here without fear of abuse. That requires actively fostering a more welcoming culture on the site which some of the things I’ve suggested might help with. 
 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Actual abuse and bullying has been dealt with in those threads and other threads throughout the long history of Eurobricks. When it became obvious that there are a few people that will never stop fighting and will prevent any positive discussion the topics got locked. Evidenced by this amd other threads that have been created by users specifically to fight and complain. 
 

Staff is not going to remove and ban everyone and everything you don’t like or agree with. Demanding that sort of action is also bullying, it goes both ways. It takes two to fight. We have rules and go by those rules. This is a safe place for people of all types and beliefs as long as they do not bully flame and personally attack others. Those that want to find fault will always find fault everywhere they go, as evidenced in this thread. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Um…I don’t want to start argument here. Instead of banning or removing, how about adding a specific member to “Ignore” list? Basically, you won’t see a specific user’s comments or messages throughout threads. It’s what I’m doing. I am against cyberbully, ya see…

Not to mention,… wow, it was so harsh and hurtful to read these posts from that moderator. 

That’s all I have to say… Peace out….

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Peppermint_M said:

Bump a thread to make a comment knowing it could re-ignite issues.

Cheers!

"Bump". July 24. Well, when that date is tagged as "bumped", we should all switch to Facebook or whatever hyper-fast reply to what-is-not-really-not-important-at-all issue there is.

Second: I my >very personal< opinion, this thread was thrown under the bus. And that felt bad - to me. As if there was a need to silence without using the "Closed-Thread-Type-Button". That one always works, doesn't it?

Third: There is a much more polite way to voice concern about a delicate topic. This reply was, in my very personal opinion, rude.

Maybe mods have a reason to do that, who knows, but honestly? What is that reply trying to tell the audience? What is the conclusion? Other than: Huh?

Best
Thorsten

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Lol to be honest it sounded like a useful suggestion to help out, more than a reignition of a touchy subject post.

Regardless although I personally don't think this thread should be shut down, just to avoid something that seems to be bothering a few people. 

I can remember when I first showed up here, I found many of the posts to be rather abrasive and off putting. The moderaters have done a great job of handling that situation without a heavy handed approach over the years. To the point of the forums pretty much being self moderated, so for that I am very thankful.

Now back to my arch nemesis a solid built suspended axle with drive and steering for my rock crawler. 

Peace out

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.