Lego 10277 - Crocodile Locomotive

[samsz_3]

New to eurobricks, not super sure about uploading files. This is a quick idea I played with in LDD for motorising with PF. Battery box is in the same place as PU, IR receiver is placed at the back of the other end. On top of the technic 1x4s and where the PF cable would be, there are jumpers which hold an L motor sideways. The spacing is right for a 20T gear (keeping the gear ratio the same). The roof needs to be modified to fit it. I haven't built mine yet but there should be enough room to run the cables. I don't want to buy into PU and prefer my locos to be powered rather than a wagon. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by samsz_3

[Phil B]

Built mine yesterday while watching Jurassic Park with the kids. Here's a picture:

As you see, I didn't put the red rubber bands on the front wheels (both sides). First order of the day after building it was to remove the ugly gap between the main cab and the nose. I decided to go with a similar mod as done by Jang, but keeping the grill bricks on the sides intact. Here is how I did my mod, shown in Stud.io as I am waiting for parts to arrive in the right colors (already tested it out in "borrowed" colors on my real-life build). Many thanks to @Sjuip for his LDD file (his post is located here).

Here is the unmodified model plus all the extra parts required for this mod:

The parts are:

• 8x Tile Modified 2x2 w 2 Studs in Reddish Brown
• 2x Tile 1x4 in Reddish Brown
• 8x Slope 30 1x1x2/3 in Reddish Brown (small cheeseslope)
• 4x Slope 30 1x2x2/3 in Reddish Brown (double cheeseslope)
• 4x Tile 1x8 in Dark Bluish Gray
• 4x Tile 1x3 in Dark Bluish Gray
• 4x Plate 1x1 in Dark Bluish Gray

Modification instructions:

1. Start with removing the roof, taking off the two Tile 2x4 on the side and taking out one Brick modified 1x2x1 2/3 with studs on the side, and one Brick modified 1x1x1 2/3 with studs on the side (optionally you can choose to source these bricks separately and skip to the second part of step 3). Note that this requires a bit more tearing down than shown in the image, but I think you get the idea:

2. Before putting the two Tile 2x4 back in their original place, slide the Brick modified 1x1x1 2/3 with studs on the side over to the trans-black 1x2 brick in the center. This will make the tile sit firmly when it gets placed back.

3. Now place the 2x4 tiles back and disconnect the nose from the main cab. Lift the top tiles and plates from the nose to get access to the 1x3 brick and plate "sandwich":

4. Not fully illustrated, but it should be easy to remove these 1x3 plates and brick with a little pulling and wiggling:

5. Replace them with the 1x2x1 2/3 and 1x1x1 2/3 bricks you removed previously, and put the previously removed tiles back on top:

6. Attach the 1x4 tile in the center, and 2 2x2 Tiles with 2 studs on each side, studs facing out:

7. Cover the studs with the cheeseslopes:

8. Reconnect the nose to the main cab. Notice how the gap has almost completely disappeared (like in Jang's Mod, but without sacrificing a grill brick):

9. To extend the running boards, remove the 1x6 and 1x4 tiles from one side:

10. Replace them with a 1x3 and a 1x8 tile, sticking a 1x1 Plate under the overhanging 1x8 tile:

11. Repeat the running board modification for the other side of the nose, and then repeat the entire process for the other nose. Once done, your Crocodile should look like this:

You will have the following leftovers:

• 4x Plate 1x3 in Black
• 2x Brick 1x3 in Light Bluish Gray
• 4x Tile 1x4 in Dark Bluish Gray
• 4x Tile 1x6 in Dark Bluish Gray

Enjoy!

Edited July 10, 2020 by Phil B

[zephyr1934]

12 hours ago, samsz_3 said:

prefer my locos to be powered rather than a wagon

Indeed, self-propelled is always a nice property in a locomotive (grin). Though I've heard of a few folks who want to use the model as a dummy engine that is pushed from behind. If you do that, make sure to remove the crown gears from the two axles under the cab so that you do not wind up with all four of the cab wheels fighting with each other on curves. Also remove one or both of the red traction bands from each of the axles under the cab if they are unpowered.

 

[samsz_3]

4 hours ago, zephyr1934 said:

Indeed, self-propelled is always a nice property in a locomotive (grin). Though I've heard of a few folks who want to use the model as a dummy engine that is pushed from behind. If you do that, make sure to remove the crown gears from the two axles under the cab so that you do not wind up with all four of the cab wheels fighting with each other on curves. Also remove one or both of the red traction bands from each of the axles under the cab if they are unpowered.

Yeah, I think there are about 7 gears in total on this. Pushing it will have some friction, but should be no where near as bad as the Emerald Night with its compound gear trains...

[SamLeCount]

20 hours ago, samsz_3 said:

New to eurobricks, not super sure about uploading files. This is a quick idea I played with in LDD for motorising with PF. Battery box is in the same place as PU, IR receiver is placed at the back of the other end. On top of the technic 1x4s and where the PF cable would be, there are jumpers which hold an L motor sideways. The spacing is right for a 20T gear (keeping the gear ratio the same). The roof needs to be modified to fit it. I haven't built mine yet but there should be enough room to run the cables. I don't want to buy into PU and prefer my locos to be powered rather than a wagon. 

Having tried a modification identical to this i found that the if the locomotive enconters any resistance then the motor lifts of the jumper plates causing the gears to skip which is why I went for this approach in the end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wufXpxX4NDU&feature=youtu.be

 

[zephyr1934]

5 hours ago, samsz_3 said:

Yeah, I think there are about 7 gears in total on this. Pushing it will have some friction, but should be no where near as bad as the Emerald Night with its compound gear trains...

It's not just the friction from the gears. A single axle going around a curve has to deal with the two different rotational speeds from the different rails. Removing one or both traction bands will let one or both sides slide rather than fight. With the entire gear assembly in place the two axles are coupled. So as the locomotive enters a curve there are actually three different rotational speeds that will fight each other, one from the straight track, and two from the different curved rails.

[CaptainSerMig]

I'm very sorry if this has been asked previously, but why were red technic pins with balljoint used on the driving rods while there are black ones connecting the noses to the cab? If they were all black the wheels would have looked so much better...

Of course I already modified mine but I'm still wondering why Lego didn't do it like this in the first place.

[Toastie]

1 hour ago, zephyr1934 said:

So as the locomotive enters a curve there are actually three different rotational speeds that will fight each other, one from the straight track, and two from the different curved rails.

That (the resulting loss of power due to partial canceling of net forward forces) plus the resulting force vectors pointing inside and outside, causing additional friction (= even more power loss) but much more annoyingly uplifting forces "facilitating" derailing.

On another thought: The 9V vs all-plastic track derailing issues (9V causing more) have been amply discussed by you and others elsewhere; I don't know whether this has been mentioned: Depending on how often and "how" 9V track pieces, particularly of course curves, have been assembled/disassembled, the metal parts maybe more or less bent, uplifted, or deformed (barely visible). It sometimes worked wonders at least here, when paying attention to that.

Best wishes
Thorsten 

[Amoreternum]

17 hours ago, Phil B said:

Built mine yesterday while watching Jurassic Park with the kids. Here's a picture:

[...]

These mods look great, so far the best ones I've seen. Have to try them!

[samsz_3]

6 hours ago, SamLeCount said:

Having tried a modification identical to this i found that the if the locomotive enconters any resistance then the motor lifts of the jumper plates causing the gears to skip which is why I went for this approach in the end. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wufXpxX4NDU&feature=youtu.be

 

I had a feeling that may happen as the clutch between a stud and Technic hole isn't loads...anyways great solution! Will probably use this. Did you have any issues with the IR reliever being buried inside the loco?

[SamLeCount]

50 minutes ago, samsz_3 said:

I had a feeling that may happen as the clutch between a stud and Technic hole isn't loads...anyways great solution! Will probably use this. Did you have any issues with the IR reliever being buried inside the loco?

Not really as lon as the remote is pointed in the general area of where the ir reciver is it seems to work

[A Wild P42]

I don't know about all the complains about it derailing, but mine hasn't derailed much. (It has derailed about 2 times) Might just be my layout. Seems to dip a little going through switches but I think it's because of the big train wheels.

[Merlict]

Was lucky enough to get one at 25% off, can't wait for it to get here

[Polarlicht]

Mine got from backoreded to in warehouse! Hype!

[Kallego]

12 minutes ago, Coolusername said:

Mine got from backoreded to in warehouse! Hype!

Mine too!

[samsz_3]

To anyone who knows about the prototype: Is there a slant on the running board? In this image of the LEGO model there apears to be one but in this blueprint there isn't. To anyone who's built the model does the blind wheel sit slightly above the rail? Is it due to the slight differences in spacing between the Technic "off centre" hole and how the system ball joints are centralised?

Also on the real thing where is the point of articulation for the noses? is it under the cab? I couldn't find any info on this.

 

[Toastie]

3 hours ago, samsz_3 said:

Also on the real thing where is the point of articulation for the noses? is it under the cab? I couldn't find any info on this.

Oh well, I believe others here know better than I do.

As Wikipedia is my friend in general and as I do speak a little German, it is even more so a friend of mine regarding the Ce 6/8 II (III): The relevant Wikipedia articles for this locomotive are in German (and some other exclusive languages). What I do take from this one is that there are basically the two driving units in the noses. They propel the six large wheels on each side, which are connected by the rods. The cab frame is coupled to the noses so it can pivot, but as far as I understood the articles, the wheels are not(?) rigidly connected to the cab. Also, the axles on each of the 6 driving wheel sets can move laterally quite a bit, as is the case for steamers as well.

This is then is some contrast to the LEGO model, but I believe realizing it closer to the original would be quite a challenge.

But again: It may be very different from what I read into it.

BTW: On my croc the slant was gone when I removed the two 1x4 bricks and some O-rings (see above), which secure the model from running off the stand.

Best
Thorsten

[THERIZE]

Although a model video doesn't of course give concrete proof about the articulation but I find it most likely for it to be like this. so the articulation would be right between the nose and the cabine. 

The unmodified set does indeed have a bit of a slant but I find it to be not that noticable as long as it isnt on the display stand. I did place a 1x3 plate between the nose and the pony truck on both sides for stability and this also makes the slant less noticable.

[Amoreternum]

Just now, THERIZE said:

Although a model video doesn't of course give concrete proof about the articulation but I find it most likely for it to be like this. so the articulation would be right between the nose and the cabine. 

The unmodified set does indeed have a bit of a slant but I find it to be not that noticable as long as it isnt on the display stand. I did place a 1x3 plate between the nose and the pony truck on both sides for stability and this also makes the slant less noticable.

Just thought of the exact same video - great model, and Märklin is one of the best if not the best manufacturer with great attention to detail and mechanics, apparently only a bit lacking in the sound division. I think it's as close to the prototype as a model can get, the real ones are rarely driven. 

[JopieK]

I just picked up my first 10277 at my in-laws! My sister-in-law was so kind to pick one up in a local toy store that still had one... And now LEGO also set a message that they have the item in the warehouse and will ship it to me soon. Seems there was also a run to get the train in local toy stores though... We don't believe TLG anymore if they say such a sets don't sell... maybe they also realize it when they said this could be a first set of a new line. 

@Amoreternum, € 3500... We should never complain about the price of LEGO anymore even though we can't build scenery from waste of course (like a in the model railroad building world...).

[Toastie]

4 hours ago, THERIZE said:

so the articulation would be right between the nose and the cabine. 

Absolutely. Wonderful video. 3:06: The whole driving unit is firmly attached to the noses, right? And then the cabin holds them "together". All the curve negotiating is done with the sliding axles, right?

Best
Thorsten

 

[Amoreternum]

8 hours ago, JopieK said:

[...]

@Amoreternum, € 3500... We should never complain about the price of LEGO anymore even though we can't build scenery from waste of course (like a in the model railroad building world...).

Nah, not really - paid around 150 € for my Croc, including the Powered Up stuff I ordered from Bricklink to motorize it from the get go, but that's roughly around the price of a medium sized H0-locomotive, some costing quite a lot more. Then again, I really like to take a look at their catalogues and products in general, it's almost like having a tiny prototype in your hands. Building a DR/BR 81 right now and I do own a H0 version of it (back from a Märklin starter kit from the early 2000s), and it's a blast to not have to google everything. But Peters videos are a blast in general.

[THERIZE]

8 hours ago, Toastie said:

The whole driving unit is firmly attached to the noses, right? And then the cabin holds them "together". All the curve negotiating is done with the sliding axles, right?

 

Yep exactly. The traction motors are in the noses and that assembly (motors, axles and housing) and are basically two gigantic bogies. The middle section doesn't do much apart from housing the cabin, pantographs and transformer. And the sliding axles are just to negociate even tighter turns.

[davidzq]

Build time was 80 minutes, but I'm a pretty fast builder.

As a 7 wide builder, it pleased me to see all the techniques this set uses that I commonly used in my own models. Especially loved the use of 1x5 technic plates. The build was more complex than I expected.

 

I'm quite pleased with this set, which is a surprise since I almost never buy sets.

 

Would definitely recommend this set ?

[CrispyBassist]

19 hours ago, Toastie said:

And then the cabin holds them "together".

 

9 hours ago, THERIZE said:

The traction motors are in the noses and that assembly (motors, axles and housing) and are basically two gigantic bogies. 

I heard someone recently call them "electric garrats", which is quite correct