Lord of the Rings Ongoing Discussion

[Jarreth2]

This is gonna start off strange but stick with me .. trawling youtube i came across Ashnflash’s review of Monkie Kid’s Team Hideout ( it’s on Lego’s website set #80044 ) it has 1582 pieces .. so the Rivendell set is very roughly 4 times larger. In all honesty its not a bad build and has some great building techniques and looks good, as he was reviewing it I kept thinking this sort of set multiplied by 4 could lend itself to being Rivendell ( obviously I don’t mean literally ) but I hope you can see where I’m going with my train of thought ? 👍🏼

[Balrogofmorgoth]

I think Rivendell could make for a good little microscale set, about the size of an Architecture set. But I’m really having a hard time seeing it in microscale at such a large size. It’s just not that kind of massive structure. Maybe it can be done and look good, idk. I just can’t really picture it. I think it lends itself much better to a large minifigure compatible scaled set. But the piece count is definitely puzzling in that regard

[hikouki]

I’d be very disappointed if this were microscale. I might still get it though if it ended up being a nice build but later and not upon release, and perhaps if it goes on sale.

Some say minifig scale is just too massive. Well, they could do as the Harry Potter sets, release smaller sets that can link together!

[Altair1]

7 hours ago, Jarreth2 said:

This is gonna start off strange but stick with me .. trawling youtube i came across Ashnflash’s review of Monkie Kid’s Team Hideout ( it’s on Lego’s website set #80044 ) it has 1582 pieces .. so the Rivendell set is very roughly 4 times larger. In all honesty its not a bad build and has some great building techniques and looks good, as he was reviewing it I kept thinking this sort of set multiplied by 4 could lend itself to being Rivendell ( obviously I don’t mean literally ) but I hope you can see where I’m going with my train of thought ? 👍🏼

I am not really a fan of the Monkie Kid sets range, but some of them have amazing water falls (in particular The Legendary Flower Fruit Mountain). I hope Rivendell will have water falls!

[Seaber]

I'm afraid I agree with those saying LOTR's pull isn't as great as others on here may think. That's not to say kids don't like it (they do) or it isn't great (it is), but franchises like Star Wars, MCU, Harry Potter, Pokemon, the Simpson, Batman and other Disney stuff seem to be higher up the list of things parents buy for their children, and most of those have Lego themes to go along with them. 

However, the Muppets got a CMS, Avatar got a range of sets and Queer Eye got a large set, and LOTR would be more popular than those three I think. 

[MAB]

1 hour ago, Seaber said:

I'm afraid I agree with those saying LOTR's pull isn't as great as others on here may think. That's not to say kids don't like it (they do) or it isn't great (it is), but franchises like Star Wars, MCU, Harry Potter, Pokemon, the Simpson, Batman and other Disney stuff seem to be higher up the list of things parents buy for their children, and most of those have Lego themes to go along with them. 

However, the Muppets got a CMS, Avatar got a range of sets and Queer Eye got a large set, and LOTR would be more popular than those three I think. 

I think Queer Eye was quite a small set compared to other 18+ these days.

2 hours ago, hikouki said:

Some say minifig scale is just too massive. Well, they could do as the Harry Potter sets, release smaller sets that can link together!

That requires a theme though. Adult sets are more buy everything at once in a big box, than needing to buy lots of smaller sets.

[wesker]

3 minutes ago, MAB said:

That requires a theme though. Adult sets are more buy everything at once in a big box, than needing to buy lots of smaller sets.

I've said it before but 18+ Diorama sets would really be the ideal direction to go. It fills the need for affordable LOTR sets with minifigures while still keeping the theme primarily targeted at an adult audience. Releases are generally limited between 1-3 dioramas per year so there's a lot less risk of oversaturating the brand compared to a traditional wave of retail wide playsets aimed at kids.

[Seaber]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

I think Queer Eye was quite a small set compared to other 18+ these days.

Yes it was, my point was Lego have made expensive sets on themes with far smaller catchments than LOTR. 

[MAB]

50 minutes ago, wesker said:

I've said it before but 18+ Diorama sets would really be the ideal direction to go. It fills the need for affordable LOTR sets with minifigures while still keeping the theme primarily targeted at an adult audience. Releases are generally limited between 1-3 dioramas per year so there's a lot less risk of oversaturating the brand compared to a traditional wave of retail wide playsets aimed at kids.

This is where different people like different things. Personally, the Star Wars dioramas do little for me. They are different scales, some micro and some with minifigs, and too many bricks wasted in bases and backdrops. SW has backups in the kid sets and adult sets, so there is plenty of other things to choose from so their existence is not an issue, the same with the helmets range. I'd prefer one decent adult set to 3x dioramas per year.

20 minutes ago, Seaber said:

Yes it was, my point was Lego have made expensive sets on themes with far smaller catchments than LOTR. 

That set seemed to be more about the publicity surrounding LGBT awareness especially during Pride celebrations than for sales. Not that I know how well it did for sales, but it got LEGO a lot of positive press stories. We'll never know but I wonder if sales for other shows like Seinfeld were better.

[mtrsteve]

3 hours ago, wesker said:

I've said it before but 18+ Diorama sets would really be the ideal direction to go. It fills the need for affordable LOTR sets with minifigures while still keeping the theme primarily targeted at an adult audience. Releases are generally limited between 1-3 dioramas per year so there's a lot less risk of oversaturating the brand compared to a traditional wave of retail wide playsets aimed at kids.

I hadn't thought of this option until (you?) posted it the other day, but this is one of many outcomes I could be happy with if there is a longer term series of releases. My imagination runs wild with the possibility of them all coming together to form a triptych of story boards for the three movies... heck, I might just have to embark on a long term MOC project now that the idea is in my head...

[natesroom]

3 hours ago, MAB said:

This is where different people like different things. Personally, the Star Wars dioramas do little for me. They are different scales, some micro and some with minifigs, and too many bricks wasted in bases and backdrops. SW has backups in the kid sets and adult sets, so there is plenty of other things to choose from so their existence is not an issue, the same with the helmets range. I'd prefer one decent adult set to 3x dioramas per year.

That set seemed to be more about the publicity surrounding LGBT awareness especially during Pride celebrations than for sales. Not that I know how well it did for sales, but it got LEGO a lot of positive press stories. We'll never know but I wonder if sales for other shows like Seinfeld were better.

Walmart has that set marked down to $45 dollars... Obviously didnt sell that well when markdowns that severe are happening.

[Ravenclaw62442]

7 hours ago, Seaber said:

I'm afraid I agree with those saying LOTR's pull isn't as great as others on here may think. That's not to say kids don't like it (they do) or it isn't great (it is), but franchises like Star Wars, MCU, Harry Potter, Pokemon, the Simpson, Batman and other Disney stuff seem to be higher up the list of things parents buy for their children, and most of those have Lego themes to go along with them. 

However, the Muppets got a CMS, Avatar got a range of sets and Queer Eye got a large set, and LOTR would be more popular than those three I think. 

All you have to do is compare how much merch currently on sale exists for both Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings. LotR is a much much smaller niche than Harry Potter when it comes to merch and it always has been. I think it attracts an older audience in general (of course there are kids that are into it) that doesn’t buy as much merch and is more likely to buy bigger more expensive one off items. 

WB owns both franchises and treats them very differently for a reason. 

[MAB]

24 minutes ago, Ravenclaw62442 said:

All you have to do is compare how much merch currently on sale exists for both Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings. LotR is a much much smaller niche than Harry Potter when it comes to merch and it always has been. I think it attracts an older audience in general (of course there are kids that are into it) that doesn’t buy as much merch and is more likely to buy bigger more expensive one off items. 

WB owns both franchises and treats them very differently for a reason. 

Indeed, and a lot of the LOTR merch is high quality, detailed and expensive. The LOTR board games I have are also firmly aimed at adults, with quite difficult mechanics.

[Ravenclaw62442]

6 minutes ago, MAB said:

Indeed, and a lot of the LOTR merch is high quality, detailed and expensive. The LOTR board games I have are also firmly aimed at adults, with quite difficult mechanics.

What LotR stuff is out there is all pretty high quality stuff.

But look how often someone like the Noble Collection makes new Middle-earth stuff compared to Wizarding World stuff. It’s just night and day. There are franchises with current cinema releases that would kill to have a piece of the Potter machine 

[Gorilla94]

19 hours ago, mtrsteve said:

It depends what the 'project' is. If it's a full on revival, I hear you. If it's a one-off nod to the adult collectors, I could see (and be reasonably happy with) this sort of outcome. But I also agree with you and MAB, that Rivendell is not the best choice for microscale, just rolling with the latest rumors re: piece count. (And yes obviously at 6000+ pieces it would be bigger and more detailed). 

I´d say the project is "making money".

A set does not need to target at pretty much every possible customer like Wall-E did (in my opinion one if not the best lego sets of all time), but it has to offer at least something to make enough people buy it or it will end like the black panther bust, of which  not a single store I know did sell a single copy of. The price point shrinks the target audience drastically. Micro Scale thins it out much more. Rivendell is not the most interesting thing to make a set of. Those potential customers left will still have standards (probably even higher ones, if they made compromises with the points mentioned before) and I am just honest, when I say that I can´t imagine lego being able to make a gorgeous microscale representation of Rivendell. "It´s somewhat ok for that scale, I guess" won´t be enough for that price tag. There are quite a few people, that would still buy the set for minifigures no matter how bad the build is... or buy the figures from resellers for a crazy price, because they want them for many different reasons. Some are some sort of collector, some want to make lotr-MOCs or stop motion videos... If they are golden, they become worthless for practical use, which shrinks the target group to a very, very, very limited amount of niche collectors who still desire them badly... The result would be at best a set so appealing as the new UCS Gunship.

I bet at least the minifigures will be regular fleshies. Everything else would have to be sabotage by an undercover mega construx agent or revenge by a vengeful employee. They can´t be that incompetent.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Gorilla94

[natesroom]

2 hours ago, MAB said:

Indeed, and a lot of the LOTR merch is high quality, detailed and expensive. The LOTR board games I have are also firmly aimed at adults, with quite difficult mechanics.

War of the Ring?

[Alegrispa]

On 12/14/2022 at 1:52 PM, Balrogofmorgoth said:

A CMF series for LOTR would solve a lot of our problems. Especially if it came alongside waves of sets. It’ll never ever happen though.

Man, that would be the dream. If that were the last CMF ever, I wouldn't even mind.

[Alegrispa]

11 hours ago, Seaber said:

I'm afraid I agree with those saying LOTR's pull isn't as great as others on here may think. That's not to say kids don't like it (they do) or it isn't great (it is), but franchises like Star Wars, MCU, Harry Potter, Pokemon, the Simpson, Batman and other Disney stuff seem to be higher up the list of things parents buy for their children, and most of those have Lego themes to go along with them. 

However, the Muppets got a CMS, Avatar got a range of sets and Queer Eye got a large set, and LOTR would be more popular than those three I think. 

Exactly. LotR unfortunately just isn't in the Zeitgeist among kids. Doesn't mean it won't ever be again, just right now it's not even remotely on the same radar as all those other franchises.

11 hours ago, Seaber said:

However, the Muppets got a CMS, Avatar got a range of sets and Queer Eye got a large set, and LOTR would be more popular than those three I think. 

I agree it would definitely be a lot more popular, but those aren't really the best things to compare it to.

The Muppets CMF was pretty limited and likely intended as a one off, the Avatar sets are mostly just sitting on shelves (though the new movie could still turn that around, but I could easily see it being massively successful without pushing much merchandise, pretty much the same was it was with the first movie), and the Queer Eye set was clearly just a fanboy project pushed by the VP of design, which barely sold, even at a huge discount directly from LEGO.

[MAB]

1 hour ago, natesroom said:

War of the Ring?

Yes, also Journeys in Middle Earth. Also the LEGO Helms Deep game but that can be played by kids.

[natesroom]

2 hours ago, MAB said:

Yes, also Journeys in Middle Earth. Also the LEGO Helms Deep game but that can be played by kids.

awesome i just got WOTR for Christmas

[zoth33]

15 hours ago, Altair1 said:

I am not really a fan of the Monkie Kid sets range, but some of them have amazing water falls (in particular The Legendary Flower Fruit Mountain). I hope Rivendell will have water falls!

Flower Fruit Mountain is a great set and has some nice techniques.  I can see them using some of the waterfalls from the MK sets for Rivendell.  I just hope the architecture is good and we have a good selection of minifigs.  

[Mandalorianknight]

On 12/16/2022 at 8:05 AM, natesroom said:

Walmart has that set marked down to $45 dollars... Obviously didnt sell that well when markdowns that severe are happening.

Between that set, the vidyo failure, and all the other poorly selling sets, lego really needs to take another look at what they're producing. I can forgive eternals because marvel had no way of knowing the film would be as bad as it was and banking on the MCU making money typically works, but stuff like the recent marvel D2Cs, Camp Nou, and-did people say the avatar sets were doing poorly? I think I heard that, though I don't know for sure- feel like they could have thought them through more. Stuff like avatar or the general concept of vidiyo is alright, even if they should have tested the waters before releasing so many sets, but stuff like queer eye and the BP bust are just... what were they thinking? Whoever's deciding what sets are made right now needs to either be replaced or severely change course.

Anyway, all that to say, lego's definately been throwing random themes and sets at the wall lately, so LOTR system sets aren't that unreasonable to assume. It'd be nice if they were far enough along in the pipeline that they get produced before lego (hopefully) course corrects and becomes more cautious about how many sets/themes they're making, but if not, we'll just have to hope they do well enough to secure a spot. I'm still a fan of my idea that LOTR and IJ are both iconic but not quite enough to go evergreen (IJ doesn't have as much material from the movies, LOTR isn't quite as popular), and they should rotate every other year.

[hikouki]

13 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

Between that set, the vidyo failure, and all the other poorly selling sets, lego really needs to take another look at what they're producing. I can forgive eternals because marvel had no way of knowing the film would be as bad as it was and banking on the MCU making money typically works, but stuff like the recent marvel D2Cs, Camp Nou, and-did people say the avatar sets were doing poorly? I think I heard that, though I don't know for sure- feel like they could have thought them through more. Stuff like avatar or the general concept of vidiyo is alright, even if they should have tested the waters before releasing so many sets, but stuff like queer eye and the BP bust are just... what were they thinking? Whoever's deciding what sets are made right now needs to either be replaced or severely change course.

Anyway, all that to say, lego's definately been throwing random themes and sets at the wall lately, so LOTR system sets aren't that unreasonable to assume. It'd be nice if they were far enough along in the pipeline that they get produced before lego (hopefully) course corrects and becomes more cautious about how many sets/themes they're making, but if not, we'll just have to hope they do well enough to secure a spot. I'm still a fan of my idea that LOTR and IJ are both iconic but not quite enough to go evergreen (IJ doesn't have as much material from the movies, LOTR isn't quite as popular), and they should rotate every other year.

As for LOTR, they're probably banking on the fact that Amazon Prime has released that new series.

[Balrogofmorgoth]

46 minutes ago, hikouki said:

As for LOTR, they're probably banking on the fact that Amazon Prime has released that new series.

That was almost certainly part of their thought process 

[Balrogofmorgoth]

On 12/16/2022 at 11:14 AM, Gorilla94 said:

I´d say the project is "making money".

A set does not need to target at pretty much every possible customer like Wall-E did (in my opinion one if not the best lego sets of all time), but it has to offer at least something to make enough people buy it or it will end like the black panther bust, of which  not a single store I know did sell a single copy of. The price point shrinks the target audience drastically. Micro Scale thins it out much more. Rivendell is not the most interesting thing to make a set of. Those potential customers left will still have standards (probably even higher ones, if they made compromises with the points mentioned before) and I am just honest, when I say that I can´t imagine lego being able to make a gorgeous microscale representation of Rivendell. "It´s somewhat ok for that scale, I guess" won´t be enough for that price tag. There are quite a few people, that would still buy the set for minifigures no matter how bad the build is... or buy the figures from resellers for a crazy price, because they want them for many different reasons. Some are some sort of collector, some want to make lotr-MOCs or stop motion videos... If they are golden, they become worthless for practical use, which shrinks the target group to a very, very, very limited amount of niche collectors who still desire them badly... The result would be at best a set so appealing as the new UCS Gunship.

I bet at least the minifigures will be regular fleshies. Everything else would have to be sabotage by an undercover mega construx agent or revenge by a vengeful employee. They can´t be that incompetent.

Honestly the Gunship is a fantastic set, I genuinely have idea why people hate it. I in no way endorse the MandR crowd of demanding certain things from lego, and I couldn’t care less about minifigures in UCS sets, they’re simply an added bonus and nowhere near the purpose of the set. Cody would have made no sense in that set anyway. But the set itself is artfully designed and looks superb, especially in person. I’ll never know why people don’t like it