[TC10] Technic Pneumatic Contest - Information Topic

[BusterHaus]

Are IR receivers allowed to control pumps?

[Epic Technic]

A quick question. In the rules, it says that electronics such as MINDSTORMS aren't allowed. But elsewhere in the rules it says I can use any type of motor, as long as it's operating a pump. Would it be ok for me to use EV3 Large motors to power my pump since I have very few PF motors. The EV3 motors wouldn't be used to do anything other than run at full power to power the pump.

• You can use ANY type of motor, as long as it's operating a pump.
  

I would say yes.

Are IR receivers allowed to control pumps?

• You can use ANY type of motor, as long as it's operating a pump.
  
• PF or other motorization is NOT permitted for non pump functions
  

I would say no.

[BusterHaus]

• You can use ANY type of motor, as long as it's operating a pump.
  
• PF or other motorization is NOT permitted for non pump functions
  

I would say no.

The IR receiver would only control when the pump motor runs. The functions are still pneumatic and only happen while the pump is running. I'll wait for an official answer to this.

[TheMindGarage]

• You can use ANY type of motor, as long as it's operating a pump.
  

I would say yes.

I hope so! Currently my setup of a single Large motor powering a single pump (from 42043 set) geared 1:5 up stalls the motor under load, and gearing it less makes it unbearably slow. But 3xEV3 Large motors will definitely do the job.

[dhc6twinotter]

I hope so! Currently my setup of a single Large motor powering a single pump (from 42043 set) geared 1:5 up stalls the motor under load, and gearing it less makes it unbearably slow. But 3xEV3 Large motors will definitely do the job.

How would you power the motors? Converter wires? Mindstorms are not allowed, per the rules.

[TheMindGarage]

How would you power the motors? Converter wires? Mindstorms are not allowed, per the rules.

What? Then I'm doomed. I was hoping that I'd be allowed to use MINDSTORMS solely for the motors powering the pump, but if that isn't the case, then I can't enter :(.

[Jim]

How would you power the motors? Converter wires? Mindstorms are not allowed, per the rules.

Not entirely. The rules state any motor, so I'm fine with Mindstorms motors. You will need to have converter cables though. No Mindstorms EV3 or NXT unit.

The IR receiver would only control when the pump motor runs. The functions are still pneumatic and only happen while the pump is running. I'll wait for an official answer to this.

And let's keep it simple and focus on Pneumatics. So no IR controllers. That will open up a new can of worms.

So any motor, yes. But NO EV3/NXT units or IR receivers.

[TheMindGarage]

Don't have any converter cables :/. I think I'll try 1x Large and 1x Medium motor with an adder - that's all the power I can get.

[Appie]

I hope so! Currently my setup of a single Large motor powering a single pump (from 42043 set) geared 1:5 up stalls the motor under load, and gearing it less makes it unbearably slow. But 3xEV3 Large motors will definitely do the job.

WHat on earth are you trying to build? A compressor should do fine with a L motor and 1 or 2 pumps on it. More motors on 1 or 2 pumps isn't going to make it any better. In fact you might break your pump(s) with it.

[TheMindGarage]

WHat on earth are you trying to build?* A compressor should do fine with a L motor and 1 or 2 pumps on it. More motors on 1 or 2 pumps isn't going to make it any better. In fact you might break your pump(s) with it.

A better two-cylinder LPE with minimal valve deadpoint and entirely stock parts.

The limiting factor seems to be the motor - the motor stalls at times. I think I'll try using the adder with the M-motor, then drop the gear ratio from 1:5 to 1:3 if I need to.

* That's defininitely not the first time people have asked me that :P. Over on the LEGO Galleries, I'm known for ridiculous flywheel experiments.

[kolbjha]

I am considering making a control unit, containing the pneumatic pumps, the PF parts to drive them, and all the pneumatic switches. The control unit is then connected to the actual model using an umbilical, with two hoses for each of the pneumatic actuators.

Is such an arrangement allowed? I think it is, but want to be sure.

Edited August 29, 2016 by kolbjha

[Jim]

I am considering making a control unit, containing the pneumatic pumps, the PF parts to drive them, and all the pneumatic switches. The control unit is then connected to the actual model using an umbilical, with two hoses for each of the pneumatic actuators. Is such an arrangement allowed?

Yup, go for it!

[kolbjha]

Ok, thanks for the feedback, Jim

[kolbjha]

Another small question: Is it allow to motorize a pneumatic actuator, like sort of a double-acting pump, or is motorization only allowed for the pneumatic pump parts?

[Milan]

Another small question: Is it allow to motorize a pneumatic actuator, like sort of a double-acting pump, or is motorization only allowed for the pneumatic pump parts?

Lets stick with the rules, which is using motors only for pneumatic pumps.

[KvM]

I was thinking of making a vacuum gripper by powering a pneumatic actuator. So apparently that is not allowed?! The gray bricks, which were used for the old cylinders with one port, are not strong enough for a good vacuum. So might this be an exception?

Edited August 30, 2016 by KvM

[Klirre]

The rules state: Only one entry per member.

Does that mean you're stuck with your project once you've created the discussion topic or when you've actually made the entry-post?

I'm wondering since my project got way too expensive and I've got a smaller and hopefully better one in mind.

[jorgeopesi]

What about a group of MOCs?, wheel loader and dumper together .

[roppie11]

The rules state: Only one entry per member.

Does that mean you're stuck with your project once you've created the discussion topic or when you've actually made the entry-post?

I'm wondering since my project got way too expensive and I've got a smaller and hopefully better one in mind.

well, you can edit the entry post as much as you like. You cant edit the topic title though (of your discussion topic) which is sad. and if you really want to quit, just change your entry post to somethink like: Not participating anymore

What about a group of MOCs?, wheel loader and dumper together .

well, TLG does the same in set 42043, so i assume it is allowed

but as always jim's answer is decisive

Edited August 30, 2016 by roppie11

[Milan]

I was thinking of making a vacuum gripper by powering a pneumatic actuator. So apparently that is not allowed?

It is only allowed to power (with Lego motors) a pneumatic pump.

The rules state: Only one entry per member.

Does that mean you're stuck with your project once you've created the discussion topic or when you've actually made the entry-post?

You can abandon your build and start a new Discussion topic, with a new build. But once you made your Entry post in the Entry topic, it is considered as final.

What about a group of MOCs?, wheel loader and dumper together .

Let's stick with the rules: Design a single pneumatic model.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Milan

[Jim]

Yup, yup and yup. What Milan said

For my information; KVM what exactly do you mean by pneumatic actuator?

[KvM]

I mean the cylinder with two ports. Is it OK to drive those?

[Jim]

I mean the cylinder with two ports. Is it OK to drive those?

You mean the old Pneumatic cylinders? You can use any Pneumatic cylinder. And you can use PF to drive a Pneumatic pump. But I'm still not sure what you are getting at, sorry.

[KvM]

I just meant the normal cylinders with two port. But instead of actuating them by a valve, I want to use them to generate a vacuum for a gripper. In order to do so I have to drive them by a motor, just as you would do with a pump, but this time a cylinder is extended and compressed by the pf motor. So in this case the cylinder is used as a pump, however it is generating the vacuum.

Edited August 31, 2016 by KvM

[Klirre]

I just meant the normal cylinders with two port. But instead of actuating them by a valve, I want to use them to generate a vacuum for a gripper. In order to do so I have to drive them by a motor, just as you would do with a pump, but this time a cylinder is extended and compressed by the pf motor. So in this case the cylinder is used as a pump, however it is generating the vacuum.

Sorry to interrupt your question, but is that even possible? In theory you would push the same air to and from the cylinder with every revolution of the engine. The pressure would oscillate between negative and positive pressure, relative to atmospheric pressure, but the net sum of pressure would be close to zero.

Even if it is or isn't allowed in the competition I would like to see if you can manage to create vacuum with a properly working pneumatic cylinder.