Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[GK733]

It has. They spended gigantic amounts of money on the marketing campaign of the first year of NinjaGo, a line that was just designed and created and of which they were much less sure that it would pay off. For Bionicle - not so much, despite it having a gigantic fanbase and 10 years of history.

Remember when Ninjago sets became selfwarmers due to their brittle parts, convoluted story, same build repeated over and over again, gave no profit, stores didn't want to sell them and it got axed? Me neither.

[Frozen Assasin]

Well, they (Bionicle) still had a gigantic fanbase that bought them and followed the story despite all it's flaws (of which it had a lot) (BZP, which still posed questions to Greg about canon and the future of the web-serials even in 2014, is a good example of that) , so they were sure that those guys would return to Bionicle and buy them even if they did the Inika warp again. And they are around 45% - 50% of the buyers.

Also, I said in the first year of NinjaGo,before it became one of their most-bestselling series.

And above that - the story of NinjaGo , as it is now, has all the warning sings of becoming just like Bionicle. And BTW - it almost got axed off in 2013. If it wasn't for a petition, there would be no NinjaGo right now.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Frozen Assasin

[GK733]

And they are around 45% - 50% of the buyers.

...not even close.

AFoLs make around 10% or even less of Lego's sales. Expect that number to be a lot smaller for Bionicle.

I'm not going to continue this debate. Arguing with you is pointless and this is going way too off-topic.

Edited August 28, 2015 by GK733

[Toa Eljay]

Yup. But in brick - per - price ratio and the overal piece count they don't even come close to the Titans of G1. They come much closer to the Toa, as well as the Protectors.

Even Kulta vs Ekimu has a lower piece count than the Titans of G1 (of maybe they just come close) and that are two sets.

Also, if they really wanted to spend money on the Bionicle series it would

a) gotten a much bigger advertising campaign.

b) Much better animations , comparable to NinjaGo in length and story-line, released on TV (and if they really loved us, made by Ghosts)

c) More graphic novels

d) announce the return of CryoShell - togheter with music and (maybe) even a new album

e) have the same people as G1 for story and design,

f) I'm running out of letters

Let's run through this, shall we?

A: Front row seats at one of the biggest nerd conventions in North America. From what I've heard from folks that went to the event, Bionicle was practically the first thing you saw when you walked in the doors of New York Comic Con. That takes a lotta money. Plus, constant social media giveaways and contests. Their marketing is fine. It's actually pretty standard fare if we're comparing it to G1.

B: I'll be frank, that's subjective. Not saying it's untrue, but it is quite subjective. Also, it's pretty clear they do love us. Bionicle is back, is it not? (Loaded question, I bet. I digress)

C: Like the two currently set to be released very soon? With entirely original content? We only got one (to my knowledge) graphic novel with entirely new content and that was in 2009. The rest were mostly compilations.

D: Again, subjective. Bionicle survived six years without Cryoshell. No reason to bring them back just to make a select group of people happy unless there'd be a major effect toward attraction.

E: Why? Why is a fresh start such an alien concept to so many people? Do you wanna go back to stick figures and brittle pieces? Do you want to sink tons of money that will end up being wasted thanks to new pieces? The same cluttered designs instead of a canvas just waiting to be filled? There is quite honestly no reason to go back to the old team aside from just being nostalgic.

In regards to the price-per-piece value thing, you need to also keep in mind that a vast majority of the pieces used in the 01 titans were smaller, technic-y bits. While I can't exactly explain why Tahu or Kopaka of all sets are $20, I can say confidently that every other set has quite a reasonable value. The Protectors? Incredible. Best Matoran sized build we've ever gotten, and cheaper than the last Matoran sets we got. They've come with new pieces, molds, a new style, a new world, and something new to get invested in.

It hadn't occurred to me until recently how difficult it actually is to get into the old story. Trying to remember the Protectors new names was actually a bit of a challenge. Now multiply that by 10 years. It's like getting into a Marvel or DC comic from the start... tomorrow.

Lego has done a great job so far in my opinion. I know that not everyone is happy with it, which is no surprise, but I do believe they've done all they can to make all parties happy. Bionicle IS back. Just don't assume it's your Bionicle. But that doesn't mean it can't be.

And above that - the story of NinjaGo , as it is now, has all the warning sings of becoming just like Bionicle. And BTW - it almost got axed off in 2013. If it wasn't for a petition, there would be no NinjaGo right now.

A petition? Do you mean an online petition? If so, that's absurd. Parents with kids who were fans of the line calling in, however, would be more like it. As I recall, they got like... 50k calls a day for quite a while asking about Ninjago. May be wrong about that, but it was a hefty number. Actually, fairly recently Lego was quoted saying that Ninjago has become an "evergreen theme", the likes of City or Castle or what not. If someone could find the source on that, that'd be awesome.

. However, I do feel it has some helpful insight in regards to how Lego has handled Bionicle and its return. Edited August 28, 2015 by Toa Eljay

[Mandate]

It has. They spended gigantic amounts of money on the marketing campaign of the first year of NinjaGo, a line that was just designed and created and of which they were much less sure that it would pay off. For Bionicle - not so much, despite it having a gigantic fanbase and 10 years of history.

Let's compare the context of their releases, shall we?

NINJAGO:

- Had two highly successful predecessors

- No prior history

- Ninja

BIONICLE G2:

- Had two highly debatable predecessors

- The original predecessor of the same name and similar plot was highly successful twelve years ago

- Original predecessor's reboot failed spectacularly despite its sizable marketing project (!)

- Second predecessor only sold what it needed to to survive

- Relatively large and very toxic fanbase

NINJAGO had a reason for a larger advertising budget than BIONICLE G2 for a number of reasons. Just because it has a large fanbase and nostalgia isn't an excuse to go all-out on marketing. NINJAGO's demographic had been tested in the past two years for how well it would work in theory. BIONICLE G2 did not and does not have the same luxury. G2's story is heavily based on 2001, which was fifteen years ago now. The marketing campaign for BIONICLE is very comparable to NINJAGO's as it is.

Well, they (Bionicle) still had a gigantic fanbase that bought them and followed the story despite all it's flaws (of which it had a lot) (BZP, which still posed questions to Greg about canon and the future of the web-serials even in 2014, is a good example of that) , so they were sure that those guys would return to Bionicle and buy them even if they did the Inika warp again. And they are around 45% - 50% of the buyers.

Also, I said in the first year of NinjaGo,before it became one of their most-bestselling series.

And above that - the story of NinjaGo , as it is now, has all the warning sings of becoming just like Bionicle. And BTW - it almost got axed off in 2013. If it wasn't for a petition, there would be no NinjaGo right now.

Have you done any research, any at all, into a single thing you've said?

[MakutaOfWar]

So somebody has the trans blue Mask of Water on ebay. $475, plus an extra $20 and it could be yours! I'm not paying that ridiculous price for A Piece Of Plastic.

[Frozen Assasin]

Let's compare the context of their releases, shall we?

NINJAGO:

- Had two highly successful predecessors

- No prior history

- Ninja

- One predcessor, not two.

- Expect the fact that it got closed after 2 years.

- And what ? I think that giant robots are much more marketable to little childeren than Ninja 's.

BIONICLE G2:

- Had two highly debatable predecessors

- The original predecessor of the same name and similar plot was highly successful twelve years ago

- Original predecessor's reboot failed spectacularly despite its sizable marketing project (!)

- Second predecessor only sold what it needed to to survive

- Relatively large and very toxic fanbase

- 3. Slizers, Roboriders, Bionicle G1. HF doesn't count, since, well HF.

- Actually, the last extremly succesfull line came in 2007, when it was all sold out.

- What ? Oh, you mean HF. I didn't fail that hard, and a lot of people liked it. The majority of BZP (more than 50,000 members) liked it and a guy even went so far to create a whole own universe based on the toys.

- Yeah, maybe.

-50,000 people in the BZpower community, several hunderds in the Russian fan-base and god knows how many more scattered across Europe. It is the biggest fan-base any non-licensed LEGO product ever had. Okay, it is toxic, I've to agree with that. I am one of those guys who posed questions to GF - so yes , I did research into that. Most of the things I have said - wintnessed them first-hand.

45%-50% - okay, maybe I wasn't right in the numbers, but you get the idea.

@ Toa Eljay.

-I meant that it would have a bigger campaign outside of the community, like on TV , for example. And yes, i want to get back to the messy and cluttered designs of old. Why ? Because that is part of the charm of Bionicle.

- I did so. I got into the world of DC first and then into the world of Marvel. I remember a lot of things from my head.

But yeah, it is getting pointless. I will not convince you and you will not convince me. Stalemate.

So somebody has the trans blue Mask of Water on ebay. $475, plus an extra $20 and it could be yours! I'm not paying that ridiculous price for A Piece Of Plastic.

There are those who bought it. For a even bigger price.

[Iben]

It hadn't occurred to me until recently how difficult it actually is to get into the old story. Trying to remember the Protectors new names was actually a bit of a challenge. Now multiply that by 10 years. It's like getting into a Marvel or DC comic from the start... tomorrow.

Although I don't agree with Frozen, this is something that's blatantly untrue. G1's story is understandably hard to understand it all. It's not hard to get into the overall story, especially as a lot of things are not important to understand the story to begin with. Seriously, it's like saying you need to know every single magic spell and potion to get into Harry Potter. That's hardly true either.

You pretty much can leave out a lot of stuff without it affecting your understanding of the story much. The Time Trap book is an excellent example of this. Do you really need to know about how the Dark Hunters tried to steal the Vahi, or the deal Teridax and Vakama struck to understand the story and get into the next wave ? Of course not. I often get the impression that people who call the G1 story extremely overcomplicated, act as if you're obligated to know every little detail to understand what it is about. Which was certainly not true. If you wanted to know why Teridax didn't attack the Turaga and the Matoran for a year, then you could opt to read Time Trap, but it's not like you couldn't understand the rest of the story without it ?

Ancient, Helryx, Botar, Tobduk, Kojol, Trinuma, etc. Never were they so important that you couldn't go without knowing who they were to understand why the set-characters did what they were doing. Destral, Xia, Odina, Stelt. Never did I really feel the need to know where those places were to get the point of the story. Seriously, sometimes it feels as if people act like you can't grasp the story without knowing everything, which really wasn't true.

I can agree that there were parts of the storyline that were so unimportant that it was pretty much redundant. Mazeka/Vultraz for instance, that could have been scrapped, and many more things could have been. But other substories and characters simply fleshed out the wave-storylines, and it simply gave people who wanted to learn more, the chance to actually do so. I never really felt left behind because I couldn't read the books, I understood the story pretty much without them. Sure, me and my brothers didn't knew all the details, but they were never so important that we were stuck.

The complete story of Bionicle was sure complex. And sure, at the very ending, it became harder to find new things. But saying that it's soooo hard to understand G1 and that you need to know every single thing, just isn't true.

However, not giving the current story a chance to grow is stupid as well. The current story and the first year of G1 don't really differ that much, so you can't expect that the current story is as fleshed out as the old one is now. Really, give it some time, it will grow in the future.

-Iben

Edited August 28, 2015 by Iben

[Mandate]

- One predcessor, not two.

- Expect the fact that it got closed after 2 years.

- And what ? I think that giant robots are much more marketable to little childeren than Ninja 's.

- Two predecessors, Atlantis and Power Miners.

- Two and a half, and IIRC it was because they didn't want the line turning into another BIONICLE. I do not recall if that was the case, but the line had enough steam going that this year was HUGE and next year was meant to be even larger before the film got delayed. What does this even have to do with no prior history to the line?

- What giant robots? You mean the one that appeared at the end of an overly convoluted 8-year long storyline, or it and the other one that appeared at the end of a failed reboot?

- 3. Slizers, Roboriders, Bionicle G1. HF doesn't count, since, well HF.

- Actually, the last extremly succesfull line came in 2007, when it was all sold out.

- What ? Oh, you mean HF. I didn't fail that hard, and a lot of people liked it. The majority of BZP (more than 50,000 members) liked it and a guy even went so far to create a whole own universe based on the toys.

- Yeah, maybe.

-50,000 people in the BZpower community, several hunderds in the Russian fan-base and god knows how many more scattered across Europe. It is the biggest fan-base any non-licensed LEGO product ever had. Okay, it is toxic, I've to agree with that. I am one of those guys who posed questions to GF - so yes , I did research into that. Most of the things I have said - wintnessed them first-hand.

45%-50% - okay, maybe I wasn't right in the numbers, but you get the idea.

- Slizers and Roboriders was a predecessor to G2? I mean sure, they're somewhat related because of G1, but aside from that they've had little to no influence. But if you're going to insist that they count, then HF will still count no matter what.

- Do you do any research? I will admit I was sorely understating how successful the sets where in 2004-2006 (sales peaked in 2002), but that's because of how successful the original three were in comparison to the rest of them.

- It did. HF's sales were never fantastic, but it sold well enough that they could continue it for some time.

- How many are active? How many are duplicate accounts? How many are there explicitly for BIONICLE, and how many have joined simply because it's one of the largest fan websites?

And no, I don't "get" what you were saying. Not even 10% of LEGO's sales are from AFOLs, and that "10%" is a very, very large overestimate. Last I knew it was around 5%, but times have changed. 45-50% of BIONICLE sales coming from active members of the online community is a ridiculously large number, I'd be surprised if it was over 3%.

G2 has had far more this year than I would have expected otherwise. Two years ago I avoided BIONICLE like the plague, and when G2 first leaked my curioity got the better of me and I'm impressed with how much we've had, and I hold Power Miners, Atlantis, Agents and Exo-Force very close to my heart, not to mention the dedication I once held to NINJAGO. We're in a bit of a dry season for story stuff, but there's been enough to keep discussion going which is always good. If this year has been successful enough, we'll surely see more next year.

[Frozen Assasin]

So, guys, who already has multiples of all some of the Skull Villains ?

@ Mandate - I already understood that nobody here agrees with me. No need to kick me when I'm already down.

I meant real ninja's, 'cause Slizers are more related to G2 than PM to NinjaGo.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Frozen Assasin

[TheOneVeyronian]

So, guys, who already has multiples of all some of the Skull Villains ?

*raises hand* Me... I have 2 Skull Warriors, 2 Skull Bashers, 3 Skull Slicers, 2 Skull Scorpios and 2 MMvSG's. I still want to get a 3rd Skull Warrior

In case anybody asks, I bought multiples for parts because, as parts packs, they're mostly really good, and we're unlikely to see some of the parts and recolours crop up again. Gotta have as many as I can afford to lay my hands on

[TheDesuComplex]

So, guys, who already has multiples of all some of the Skull Villains ?

I'm still hoping to get two of all the sets save Basher and Scorpio, mainly because I want two of each part...

[Frozen Assasin]

*raises hand* Me... I have 2 Skull Warriors, 2 Skull Bashers, 3 Skull Slicers, 2 Skull Scorpios and 2 MMvSG's. I still want to get a 3rd Skull Warrior

In case anybody asks, I bought multiples for parts because, as parts packs, they're mostly really good, and we're unlikely to see some of the parts and recolours crop up again. Gotta have as many as I can afford to lay my hands on

Wow, I don't even have enough money to buy all the Skull Villains, let alone multiples of each...You must have a lot of money.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Frozen Assasin

[Kalhiki]

So, guys, who already has multiples of all some of the Skull Villains ?

Ask me when they go on sale.

Speaking of which, I saw Pohatu, LOSS, and Onua for sale at a Walmart. Pohatu and LOSS were around $10 I think, and Onua $15. I would've picked some up, but I really had no interest (and I already got two extra Onuas when they were on sale at Target a while back).

[Frozen Assasin]

Aren't they already for sale in America ?

[Bbrink1996]

So I still can't get the book for the Kindle app for some reason. I go to the Ipad Kindle store on amazon but the book doesn't show up in the search results. Only the second book and the graphic novel. And when I use a direct link like the one Mesonak gave a few pages earlier I don't get the option to buy it. Anyone know what's up with that? Did anybody even manage to buy the book for Kindle or is everyone buying physical copies?

[Kalhiki]

Aren't they already for sale in America ?

Sorry. on sale. Cut prices.

Probably not indicative of all stores, though. That particular Walmart always seems to be slashing prices.

[Aanchir]

So I still can't get the book for the Kindle app for some reason. I go to the Ipad Kindle store on amazon but the book doesn't show up in the search results. Only the second book and the graphic novel. And when I use a direct link like the one Mesonak gave a few pages earlier I don't get the option to buy it. Anyone know what's up with that? Did anybody even manage to buy the book for Kindle or is everyone buying physical copies?

Maybe Kindle editions are region-locked and the Kindle version has only actually been released in the United States? I've noticed some of the people commenting on not being able to get the Kindle version are not from the United States, and that some other countries' versions of Amazon (like Amazon.co.uk) do not seem to have a Kindle version listed.

[Mutant Orc]

So, guys, who already has multiples of all some of the Skull Villains ?

I have another Slicer. I was going to use some of my VIP rewards to get it cheaper but the store I went to had a problem but I'd queued n all so I got it full RRP anyway ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I wouldn't mind picking up a double of maybe some of the others either (for the parts such as for mocing/moding the toa in skeleton zombie versions which is amusing) but then there are other sets coming out later this year such as the Star Wars ones that we don't yet know the price of in sterling so how expensive they are will determine if I do get more doubles or not.

[Bigger Fish]

I just realized how similar the stories for G2 Bionicle and JoJo's bizarre adventure are to each other.

[Logan McOwen]

I have doubles of all of the skellies sans Grinder. If this villain pack is offered up like the Hero Pack was, then I'll order a dupe of MMvsSG in order to get it.

[Shakar]

I really want that Villain Pack. Kulta's mask just looks great in gold, reminding me of the Mesoamerican aesthetic even more. And I'd try to build some sort of super-Kulta with it, or maybe use it as armour.

[Bbrink1996]

Maybe Kindle editions are region-locked and the Kindle version has only actually been released in the United States? I've noticed some of the people commenting on not being able to get the Kindle version are not from the United States, and that some other countries' versions of Amazon (like Amazon.co.uk) do not seem to have a Kindle version listed.

Hmm, I guess that might be it. I'll try to find out if there is a way to go around this region lock otherwise I have to wait until it will be available in other countries I suppose.

[Frozen Assasin]

Sorry. on sale. Cut prices.

Probably not indicative of all stores, though. That particular Walmart always seems to be slashing prices.

No, I meant like sold. In that way.

[Toa_Bomb]

If I wanna pretend that jaller is a guitar ace from outer space and gets together to play metal shows every week

I know I'm late to the party but you could totally imagine that now, given the whole "Spherus Magna Expanded Universe" thing

So, guys, who already has multiples of all some of the Skull Villains ?

I have 3 Skull Warriors for photoshoots, one with custom paint bits, and 2 MMvSGs for Kulta's friction problem, the horrid mask stand, and the ability to have Ekimu and the combi at the same time.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Toa_Bomb