Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Aanchir]

Tanma died?

The curse of joining a fanbase 14 years late strikes again

Nah, just an alternate universe Tanma. Main universe Tanma is still alive, as far as I know.

[Lord-Vorahk]

Yeah, Kingdom!Tanma died, Prime!Tanma is still around.

[Toa Eljay]

I really do believe a lot of fans have taken his work for granted simply due to becoming jaded. I'm sure, as many have surmised previously, it's because of his handling of Bionicle post-cancellation. But gee, the things I've seen good chunks of the community say about him is... I think the word I'd use is bratty. A lot of the folks criticizing him for letting fans take control of the story via rapid fire canonization end up wanting this or that of their own accord (i.e The MU's height). A lot of it does seem to be valid critique, but a lot of it also seems to be incredibly condescending and almost hypocritical, like somehow after years of enjoying Greg's writing they're suddenly against him because a few folks have become very vocal about it over the last 3 or so years.

And then the blaming. I don't think I've seen people before in a fanbase that have been so downright ungrateful to an author because they didn't get their perfect little bio-mechanical world. So they end up blaming pretty much just him, when a very good majority of the decisions made for Bionicle came from a story team. It's incredible.

Granted, I'm sure some people would say that these folks don't owe Greg anything, which is true, but I still find it ridiculous that they've followed a line Greg is partially response for helping exist to begin with and then whine and complain and nitpick every single thing because it's either not realistic or not how they want it.

[Kalhiki]

I didn't mind Greg. But I didn't like how convoluted the story became and how much stuff got canonized near the end.

Which is why I like G2 so much. A lot more open space that doesn't confine things so much through things that are canon.

[MakutaOfWar]

^Well we barely have any information at all in G2 so far, you could say the exact thing about the first wave in Gen 1.

[Kingslayer]

I really do believe a lot of fans have taken his work for granted simply due to becoming jaded. I'm sure, as many have surmised previously, it's because of his handling of Bionicle post-cancellation. But gee, the things I've seen good chunks of the community say about him is... I think the word I'd use is bratty. A lot of the folks criticizing him for letting fans take control of the story via rapid fire canonization end up wanting this or that of their own accord (i.e The MU's height). A lot of it does seem to be valid critique, but a lot of it also seems to be incredibly condescending and almost hypocritical, like somehow after years of enjoying Greg's writing they're suddenly against him because a few folks have become very vocal about it over the last 3 or so years.

And then the blaming. I don't think I've seen people before in a fanbase that have been so downright ungrateful to an author because they didn't get their perfect little bio-mechanical world. So they end up blaming pretty much just him, when a very good majority of the decisions made for Bionicle came from a story team. It's incredible.

Granted, I'm sure some people would say that these folks don't owe Greg anything, which is true, but I still find it ridiculous that they've followed a line Greg is partially response for helping exist to begin with and then whine and complain and nitpick every single thing because it's either not realistic or not how they want it.

To be fair, I think a lot of people don't like Greg for the same reason people don't like George Lucas. I also really don't like all this canonizing stuff. I think it's pointless personally.

[Logan McOwen]

Kingdom!Tanma

Prime!Tanma

Stop that immediately.

[Kalhiki]

^Well we barely have any information at all in G2 so far, you could say the exact thing about the first wave in Gen 1.

True, but I hope they continue the "simpler take on things."

Though that's not to say I wouldn't like to see some things canonized. I'd especially like to know what Okotan culture is like.

[Gatanui]

I really do believe a lot of fans have taken his work for granted simply due to becoming jaded. I'm sure, as many have surmised previously, it's because of his handling of Bionicle post-cancellation. But gee, the things I've seen good chunks of the community say about him is... I think the word I'd use is bratty. A lot of the folks criticizing him for letting fans take control of the story via rapid fire canonization end up wanting this or that of their own accord (i.e The MU's height). A lot of it does seem to be valid critique, but a lot of it also seems to be incredibly condescending and almost hypocritical, like somehow after years of enjoying Greg's writing they're suddenly against him because a few folks have become very vocal about it over the last 3 or so years.

And then the blaming. I don't think I've seen people before in a fanbase that have been so downright ungrateful to an author because they didn't get their perfect little bio-mechanical world. So they end up blaming pretty much just him, when a very good majority of the decisions made for Bionicle came from a story team. It's incredible.

Granted, I'm sure some people would say that these folks don't owe Greg anything, which is true, but I still find it ridiculous that they've followed a line Greg is partially response for helping exist to begin with and then whine and complain and nitpick every single thing because it's either not realistic or not how they want it.

I agree with you. This "hating on Greg" bandwagon has been jumped on way too extensively in my opinion. It's fine not to like his style but hatred is not okay.

[Lyichir]

^Well we barely have any information at all in G2 so far, you could say the exact thing about the first wave in Gen 1.

You could indeed say the exact same thing about the first wave of Gen 1. That's a big part of why so many people like Gen 2—the classic theme drifted a heck of a long way from its simple, iconic beginning.

As for the discussion about Greg, I DO blame him for a lot of the problems with the story (the rest of the story team was focused primarily on "big picture" things like story arcs, so most stuff like the meandering serials, alternate universes, and boneheaded canonizations was on him). At the same time, I recognize that he's NOT a bad writer, that his work for Ninjago, Chima, and even Hero Factory has been stellar, and that one of the biggest faults in his work on Bionicle was a result of him trying too hard to give a temperamental fandom what they wanted instead of what the story actually NEEDED.

[Toa Eljay]

As for the discussion about Greg, I DO blame him for a lot of the problems with the story (the rest of the story team was focused primarily on "big picture" things like story arcs, so most stuff like the meandering serials, alternate universes, and boneheaded canonizations was on him). At the same time, I recognize that he's NOT a bad writer, that his work for Ninjago, Chima, and even Hero Factory has been stellar, and that one of the biggest faults in his work on Bionicle was a result of him trying too hard to give a temperamental fandom what they wanted instead of what the story actually NEEDED.

Out of curiosity, do you or anyone have a list of the things he's canonized that has detracted from Bionicle and/or hurt the line/story? Post and pre cancellation, of course.

The reason I ask is because it's easy enough for you to make a blanket statement such as that (as many have) in order to push blame on Greg as some sort of scapegoat. I won't deny that Bionicle had many problems, but it's arguably ignorant to claim they're all or mostly his. The height of the MU robot? Where has it been said that was his doing? If I remember correctly, notes claiming it was the height it was were included in Christian Faber's concepts. I may be wrong, so please correct me if I am.

Not to mention, what problems per-say? I ask for a list because what may seem like problems may only be problems to you or a select group of people. It's easier to discuss the semantics of what's an issue and what isn't with a visual list of issues, because then we can figure out if they're actual issues or your own personal tastes.

As far as recent canonizations go, I blame the fan base more than I do Greg. A lot of it has been voted upon and discussed on fan sites, then pitched to him. Why should he have to say no to something that A. The fans want and B. Makes sense? I'm not claiming all of these things do, not am I saying I like them. I'm merely bringing up an argument.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Toa Eljay

[GK733]

Out of curiosity, do you or anyone have a list of the things he's canonized that has detracted from Bionicle and/or hurt the line/story? Post and pre cancellation, of course.

The idea to not to be able to re-enact some of the things in story and get more involved into, therefore buying sets and supporting the existence of the line.One ff these missteps being Klakk, a rare rather ugly polybag is suddenly canonized as an antidote to the whole shadow leech virus, The second greatest plotpoint of 2008.

After cancellation Greg pulled so many new characters in it didn't make any sense the whole dreameating-tentacle-monster-lady is just plain awful idea atop of other loose ends and connection problems. I also really much dislike the idea that the toa got separated, not because it itself is that bad idea but when story came to somewhat conclusion he messed everything up and stopped there. The serials after it's cancellation are now like a plate that still has food on it and no one wants to eat it. I recall the dishwasher(reboot) the right decision.

Edited May 6, 2015 by GK733

[Toa Eljay]

The idea to not to be able to re-enact some of the things in story and get more involved into, therefore buying sets and supporting the existence of the line.One ff these missteps being Klakk, a rare rather ugly polybag is suddenly canonized as an antidote to the whole shadow leech virus, The second greatest plotpoint of 2008.

After cancellation Greg pulled so many new characters in it didn't make any sense the whole dreameating-tentacle-monster-lady is just plain awful idea atop of other loose ends and connection problems. I also really much dislike the idea that the toa got separated, not because it itself is that bad idea but when story came to somewhat conclusion he messed everything up and stopped there. The serials after it's cancellation are now like a plate that still has food on it and no one wants to eat it. I recall the dishwasher(reboot) the right decision.

Considering the Klakk came with... BrickMaster, was it? I'm not 100% sure, but an official Lego catalog. Considering it came with it as opposed to other polybags such as Good Guy, wouldn't one assume it was always meant to be a part of the story? Did he ever say that he thought up and single handedly wrote into the story a plot point such as that?

And if I remember correctly, Sahmad's Tale was actually really well received. Did that change? I'm not honestly sure.

However, yes, all of the serials post-cancellation were Greg's doing, and I know a lot of that has given the fanbase mixed feelings. But what about during the first run of Bionicle? Books? Story? Etc?

[Lyichir]

Out of curiosity, do you or anyone have a list of the things he's canonized that has detracted from Bionicle and/or hurt the line/story? Post and pre cancellation, of course.

The reason I ask is because it's easy enough for you to make a blanket statement such as that (as many have) in order to push blame on Greg as some sort of scapegoat. I won't deny that Bionicle had many problems, but it's arguably ignorant to claim they're all or mostly his. The height of the MU robot? Where has it been said that was his doing? If I remember correctly, notes claiming it was the height it was were included in Christian Faber's concepts. I may be wrong, so please correct me if I am.

Not to mention, what problems per-say? I ask for a list because what may seem like problems may only be problems to you or a select group of people. It's easier to discuss the semantics of what's an issue and what isn't with a visual list of issues, because then we can figure out if they're actual issues or your own personal tastes.

As far as recent canonizations go, I blame the fan base more than I do Greg. A lot of it has been voted upon and discussed on fan sites, then pitched to him. Why should he have to say no to something that A. The fans want and B. Makes sense? I'm not claiming all of these things do, not am I saying I like them. I'm merely bringing up an argument.

Believe me, I couldn't care less about things like the height of the Mata Nui Robot if I tried. It's got it's own gravity inside it—what's the point of even worrying about if the scale is practical?

Canonizations that bother me include things like the stupid, pointless push to get the Toa Mangai's Kanohi matched up with their elements. What purpose does that serve? They're still unnamed characters—the only difference is that now it's harder for fans to put their own spin on them, because now there's less left to the imagination. Similarly, I disliked the choices for color schemes of other elements—most of them color combinations that left little wiggle room and in many cases overlapped with the actual color schemes of characters with different elements. hings like that—and yes, I'd agree that the fans are mostly to blame, but Greg also deserves some of the blame for assuming that the fans who petition him about stupid stuff like that are the only ones who care or matter.

Problems I find with Greg's writing for Bionicle include his predilection for gritty, over-the-top one-liners (especially in 2006 and 2007), his tendency to divert the actual important story with alternate universe shenanigans and other side-stories that, despite being at best tangential to the overarching story, could have big effects on the status quo of beloved characters, and problematic implications such as all Toa of Psionics after Orde being female because the Great Beings wanted them to be "more gentle".

[Toa Eljay]

Believe me, I couldn't care less about things like the height of the Mata Nui Robot if I tried. It's got it's own gravity inside it—what's the point of even worrying about if the scale is practical?

I believe we can agree here for sure. =P

Canonizations that bother me include things like the stupid, pointless push to get the Toa Mangai's Kanohi matched up with their elements. What purpose does that serve? They're still unnamed characters—the only difference is that now it's harder for fans to put their own spin on them, because now there's less left to the imagination. Similarly, I disliked the choices for color schemes of other elements—most of them color combinations that left little wiggle room and in many cases overlapped with the actual color schemes of characters with different elements. hings like that—and yes, I'd agree that the fans are mostly to blame, but Greg also deserves some of the blame for assuming that the fans who petition him about stupid stuff like that are the only ones who care or matter.

I do agree with you that it limits fan creativity. That's why I'm also opposed to rapid canonization. However, if it fans are actively becoming involved in the community to make it so they're heard by Greg and they're able to contribute in some way to a (supposedly) never changing story, why is that such a bad assumption? I've seen the polls. A lot of people voted in them. An online poll where you had to register to a website in order to be heard. Who else would Greg be listening to? Fan letters in the mail? Postcards? Strobe lights in the sky, signaling the return of the mighty, mysterious, dark and brooding Bat-Greg?

My slightly more realistic and serious point is that I don't feel Greg is in the wrong for listening to active fans online. All the stuff that has recently been canonized has been stuff being polled for. I DO however believe doing all this canonization in the first place is an issue. I think Greg shouldn't be doing it at all. Maybe some few exceptions every once and a while for things that absolutely make sense and contribute, but very rarely even then.

Problems I find with Greg's writing for Bionicle include his predilection for gritty, over-the-top one-liners (especially in 2006 and 2007), his tendency to divert the actual important story with alternate universe shenanigans and other side-stories that, despite being at best tangential to the overarching story, could have big effects on the status quo of beloved characters, and problematic implications such as all Toa of Psionics after Orde being female because the Great Beings wanted them to be "more gentle".

The entire line took a shift like that around 2006 and 2007. I wouldn't exactly pin that solely on Greg either considering all the dark imagery and alt-rock we were being shown around that time.

But regardless, those are you problems with his writing and that's perfectly fine. I personally find that people read too much into and flipped out a bit much over that last one, but aside from that I won't get into it.

I'll say it again, I do not deny Greg had problems and has caused issues for the story. However, I most certainly do not believe he's the sole cause nor majority cause, and I think people oughta think about it some more and realize there was an entire team of people at Lego running the story, and as such they may have had an even larger role in regards to certain aspects than he did.

[Dorek]

A lot of this probably belongs in the G1 topic =P.

I will say that I think some of the hard feelings about canonization overall also stem from the fact that people against canonization were actually in the minority; most polls actually reflected a desire to see more things canonized, and the have the various pockets filled in. People were never going to be happy with all the reveals, and I'm also not saying that a majority opinion is inherently right, but at least in terms of post-cancellation, he was writing to a very specific audience, and this is what the audience showed a desire to see.

and problematic implications such as all Toa of Psionics after Orde being female because the Great Beings wanted them to be "more gentle".

I genuinely have a hard time faulting him for this, because while he handled it somewhat poorly, the backlash was completely out of proportion, especially considering that he was just trying to rectify a previous mistake rather than actually include a retcon that probably would have been received even worse. His road to hell was clearly paved with good intentions.

[Toa Eljay]

His road to hell was clearly paved with good intentions.

As most tend to be. =P

A lot of this probably belongs in the G1 topic =P.

Yikes! You're right! Thanks for the reminder, I'll shoot anything else that way.

In regard to Gen2, in which case, I'm honestly quite excited for the next series of animations. Anyone have any idea how many there'll be? I doubt there will be anymore than 9, like the first half of 2015.

[CabooseBM]

Stop that immediately.

What? No. You stop it. That's a perfectly valid way to label versions of characters from different universes. I may have remembered that one Tanma died but the original Tanma is still alive, but someone less involved may not. Tagging what Tanma is what makes that easy, and it's perfectly sensible to use terminology from other franchises to describe it, like G1/G2 from Transformers/MLP. I don't know what ridiculous hang ups you have about fandom stuff but yelling at people on Eurobricks is not the answer.

[Logan McOwen]

>yelling

>on the internet

Okie dokie, pig-and-a-pokey.

But anyway, it seems a Chinese company has already stepped up to the plate to produce knockoffs of the G2 Bionicle sets! Introducing... BIONLCIE! Are they simple reboxed copies of actual sets, or their own re-molds? Who knows! But, there's no real incentive to buy these, as the prices are barely different from Lego's, and there's no unusual recolours. They are literally just clones.

Edited May 6, 2015 by LewiMOC

[Lord-Vorahk]

Oh dear. Still, look at the beautiful description of the BIONCLIE figure.

Warning: far away from the fire

Gender: Boys

Brand Name: xinh

Age Range: > 6 years old (I know some people here will take offense at that!)

Material: Plastic

Plastic Type: ABS

Type: Self-Locking Bricks

Scale: 1:64 (Yes, there's a scale. Between what, Tahu's set and the size of an actual Toa?)

Model Number: 8685

Theme: Robots

piece: one piece (Here's our first weird crossover)

figure1: Protector of the Jungle,water,stone,fire (Tahu appears to be having an identity crisis.)

feature1: baby block toy (... No.)

feature2: no russian language (How is this a feature?)

feature3: the avengers super heroes block (Crossover number two, starring Robert Downey Jr. as Tahu.)

feature4: pokemon toy (Crossover three, gotta catch all the masks Krana more masks more Krana Kraata Disks Keys to Nongu Ignika Keystones Masks)

feature5: model building kits

feature6: playmobil block (Oh come on, that's even worse than Mega Bloks.)

feature7: minecraft (...)

Best toy ever.

Edited May 6, 2015 by Lord-Vorahk

[AyliffeMakit]

I'm done

[Shakar]

http://www.aliexpres...2321935952.html

There's this gem too. Still, these don't seem to have exclusive recolours (not that I would buy them, but those white 4M shells were pretty intruguing until Cody and Obi Wan introduced them officially).

[GK733]

>yelling

>on the internet

Okie dokie, pig-and-a-pokey.

But anyway, it seems a Chinese company has already stepped up to the plate to produce knockoffs of the G2 Bionicle sets! Introducing... BIONLCIE! Are they simple reboxed copies of actual sets, or their own re-molds? Who knows! But, there's no real incentive to buy these, as the prices are barely different from Lego's, and there's no unusual recolours. They are literally just clones.

>greentexting

>outside of... well

Just don't do it please.

Aside from the obvious bad quality of those sets I like that box design, gives a nostalgic feeling and looks more compact. I have always felt that Official boxes are far too slim.

Edited May 6, 2015 by GK733

[LegendsOfNinjago]

Oh dear. Still, look at the beautiful description of the BIONCLIE figure.

Best toy ever.

I shat bricks...

[DraikNova]

That's just plain pathetic. If you want to make money, at least get the presentation right. I mean, how much money would it cost to get the description right or at least non-ridiculous? Zero, nada, nothing.

Edited May 6, 2015 by DraikNova