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Baritones 3: Day Two


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#101 Tamamono

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 08:40 PM

View PostHinckley, on 15 August 2011 - 08:36 PM, said:

Oh, now I get it. I didn't understand why you were asking. I see now.

In that case, no.


:distressed:

Anyways, there's still about 40 hours quite a bit of time to vote, and we need 13 votes to convict. What does everyone else think? Do we vote someone off today, or do we not vote and hope for the best?

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#102 Brickdoctor

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 08:50 PM

View PostCaptain Tamamono, on 15 August 2011 - 08:40 PM, said:

Anyways, there's still about 40 hours quite a bit of time to vote, and we need 13 votes to convict. What does everyone else think? Do we vote someone off today, or do we not vote and hope for the best?
I still say we should lynch someone. At least we'll get to decide who dies.

#103 RileyC

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 09:02 PM

Poor Sarah.  :cry_sad: I'm so sorry Samuel for your terrible loss.

Now about her death, I dont think this was just random, I think the scum was behind it. So the scum seems like they have a few "day" actions that they can use. We must be really careful and think wisely about who we want to vote off. With the information we have I'm not yet convinced that we can make a conviction on solid ground. But if a good explanation as to why we should vote today, I can be flexible.

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#104 The Crazy One

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 11:00 PM

So sad. Three townies and no clues. This is a worrying developement. Day actions are a disturbing prospect. Pardon if I have forgotten but what was the cause of death?

View PostBrickdoctor, on 15 August 2011 - 08:50 PM, said:

I still say we should lynch someone. At least we'll get to decide who dies.

A valid point as it's the only way, but I'm not brave enough to vote for anyone that I suspect.  :sceptic:

#105 badboytje88

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Posted 15 August 2011 - 11:20 PM

Since voting isn't getting along at all, it might also be a clever idea to contemplate on who we think needs protection, to be blocked or investigated or something like that. Downside is that this makes our moves predictable for the scum.

#106 Bob

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 12:00 AM

View PostSandy, on 15 August 2011 - 03:31 PM, said:

No, not my Sarah! :cry_sad: First my precious daughters, now my wife! Why, oh Big Voice, why?!

This is almost too much to bear. I can't just helplessly watch as my loved ones die all around me. I've got to know whether I can help our Town or not, that's why I...

Vote: Barbara (BobtheConstructionMan)

The reasons are that I already voted for her yesterday, and she has been flying under the radar today as well. I will change my vote if a more suspicious name comes up - that is, if I can vote at all.

You scumbags, I'm going to get you all for what you did to my wife! :angry:
Oh for the love of God. You once again honestly think that I'm flying under the radar again? Why are you so vindictive to try and lynch me? I posted twice today, and both times I thought were useful posts with my views and ideas. There are people who haven't posted at all, and have only spoken once, yet you single me out. Why?

View PostPeanuts, on 15 August 2011 - 04:33 PM, said:

I can't believe you actually think about that as an option. There are some reasons why this makes no sence:
1. God hasn't said anything about voting, just about conviction. Why would he warn us about a penalty and not warn us about another?
2. What is the sence of a penalty if you don't make clear it is a penalty? People will just do the same mistakes, as they don't know they can be punished for it.
3. Someone would be punished every day following your theory, as the day ends when a conviction is reached. Well, unless the vote is too split to reach a conviction before everyone voted, but in this case, you wouldn't lynch anyone so there would be another penalty. :wacko: Your idea is just strange.
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#107 Shadows

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 02:09 AM

Just what we needed, another town death. *huh*

Well, I think this confirms that Eugene was killed by a vigilante, who I would ask to use a bit more restraint in the future.

It could also mean that the scum get two kills, one at night and one during the day, but that would be a pretty douche move on the part of god.

Oh, and given that he won't provide a normal vote count like every other fucking host in history, he clearly is a douche, so all bets are off regarding the scum getting two kills. :sceptic:

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#108 Brickdoctor

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 02:17 AM

View PostShadows, on 16 August 2011 - 02:09 AM, said:

Oh, and given that he won't provide a normal vote count like every other megablocking host in history, he clearly is a douche, so all bets are off regarding the scum getting two kills. :sceptic:
I would have to disagree. If there is a vote hijacker, it's an understandable move. To post vote tallies often would make it too easy to pick out the hijacker.

#109 WhiteFang

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 02:58 AM

I didn't really expect to see yesterday turned out badly with the loss of 2 good men. Now, there are huge tons of discussions and also to figure out carefully on how we can go about. We made a wrongful conviction in Day 1, so we can't go about doing it again for today.

I haven't entirely gone through the rest of the inputs, but one thing for sure, I am very certain there are a lot of things happening last night, apart from the killing of Eugene by a vigilate wielding a machine gun. So, where does it leave to? I don't believe last night was only an involvement of one successful night actions? I am sure there are more but it was not shown which is likely due to its magical combinations?

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#110 JimBee

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 03:38 AM

Well, I wanted to wait longer, but time is ticking away, and I must present this accusation now.

Vote: Petr (Zepher)

Not to worry, a lengthy explanation follows.

As many of you have noticed, Petr has been acting strange and erratic. Most notably, today he proxied his vote to Samuel, who we know has something strange going on with his voting ability.

But this is not why I voted for him. You see, on Day 1, Petr contacted eight random people, including myself and the late Eugene (it should be noted here that earlier today Petr said that Eugene was his only ally. While this may be true as I'm voting for him right now, the statement seemed to imply that Petr had not had any private conversations with anyone else). Anyway, here is what he said to us eight:

Quote

Hello new friend. I have chosen you randomly off the list of players so as to have an ally. Chances are high that you'll be town, and if not, I have nothing to lose, it would actually save my neck more if the scum were aware that I have no actions. So, let's start this behind the scenes show off right. Start to pool information. If you don't trust me, I understand, but I am making claims that would be stupid for a scum to make, a vanilla townie is never a good scum claim. If you're scum, would you mind alerting me as well, I wouldn't want anyone to get the wrong idea of me talking to scum. Also, if you use me leaching information as a reason to lynch me, well, it won't do you much good. I'm, as stated above, a vanilla townie, so the town won't lose anything but the ratio of town to scum a little. Anyway, if you trust me, give me information, and maybe we can start to organize this thing from the town end a bit. I'm doubting too many folks will trust me, but with a go.

-Petr

This seems reasonable enough, but there are a few things to notice.

- Petr suggested that we pool information. However, this is a one-on-one conversation, and we don't know who the others are. Petr could easily filter information that is being sent and received to his liking.

- In addition to that, pooling information with randomly chosen people is, quite frankly, idiotic. If one or more of the chosen people were scum, it would be very easy to mix in false information. Or, if Petr is scum, for him to mix in false information and have the rest of us become paranoid of each other.

Alright, let's look at the next automated message:

Quote

I have not gained more information, but I have sent out this to all my other contacts:

My real purpose in contacting you is thus:

I have purposely painted a target on my head by trying to organize the town, if I get killed, then I think one of the people I've contacted are more likely to be scum. So, here's my list of people I've contacted. (CENSORED: I'm leaving it up to the six others contacted to reveal themselves). Now, you may say that the scum may kill me to frame the people I've contacted, but unless someone tells the scum that those are the people I've contacted, it is impossible for them to know to kill me to frame those people. The only way for the scum to know that I'm taking on an organizational role is if one of those eight people are scum. So if I'm killed, add a little bit more suspicion to those people.

(The red was me in case that wasn't obvious).

A few more things become clear here:

- Painting a target on his head? The smart scum move would be to not kill him and avoid drawing suspicion to themselves. Plus, Petr cannot avoid being killed by someone outside of the conversation (being killed for another reason). This move only protects himself and doesn't help the town.

- Now that we know everyone else he contacted, the first move, presumably, would be to go to them and exchange information. There's another opportunity for false information to find its way to townies, and increases the risk of voting off one of our own.

To me, the whole thing looks like Petr is trying to cause confusion and paranoia among these people. If he is scum, he knew all eight people are town, and was trying to get us to be suspicious of each other. Maybe, even, we would go ahead and kill ourselves off.

And yes, I realize that once Petr died, all eight people contacted would realize his alignment, and since he claims to be town, we would all be accusing each other. Remember though, that Petr protects himself in these ways:

- If I had a killing role (alignment aside), I can't kill him because that would make me scum.

- If I brought this to the public (as I'm doing now), I'm scum because then the scum know about this so-called strategy.

So you see, Petr means to not be killed, and keep his alignment a secret. Since no one knows his alignment, we can't kill or lynch him because if he is town, we'd be suspicious.

But there's still no way of knowing, unless we lynch him. Does this makes sense?

So, I'm doing what goes against my gut instinct and revealing all of this to everyone, because I know that I'll be a suspect if Petr turns out to be town anyways.

However, seeing as we don't have any better options with reasoning besides "he's quiet" (that didn't work out too well yesterday, did it?), this, I believe, is the best course of action. For everyone's sake, I hope Petr is scum or neutral (could be a Jester with all of this idiocy).

All I know is that he's confusing the hell out of me, which is never a good thing when we're trying to find scum. And, as I've said before: A stupid/confusing townie is just as dangerous as scum.

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#111 CorneliusMurdock

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 03:47 AM

Wow, Yan that is weird.  Petr has been acting strangely and your argument is very well thought out and logical.  I would like to hear how he tries to explain this before placing my vote.

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#112 WhiteFang

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 04:27 AM

Oh my goodness! I didn't realise Sarah was dead until I catch up with all of the recent happenings.  :cry_sad:

Now I am extremely confident that there is someone among us who is giving out poison. Whether that person is a friend or foe, we do not know for sure. Certainly for sure, this person definitely gave out poison last night, and it takes awhile before the poison took effect. This is a bold assumption but I am not seeing any wrong to assume this.

I can't believe things had took for a worse, plus the vote stealer or vote blocker theory out there. I need time to compose myself before deciding what to do next.

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#113 RileyC

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 05:06 AM

This is certainly a very well thought out evaluation of Petr's behaviour. While I agree with most if not all of your points you raise, to air on the side of caution in will wait for Petr to speak for herself to try and clear her name. Petr is definitely the best suspect we have found today for sure with the little information we got. I'm glad you, Yan, could piece some things together.

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#114 Inconspicuous

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 05:19 AM

View PostJimButcher, on 16 August 2011 - 03:38 AM, said:

But this is not why I voted for him. You see, on Day 1, Petr contacted eight random people, including myself and the late Eugene.

I too was one of the eight people contacted, and I've been suspicious of Petr ever since. I couldn't make sense of why he was doing it, and your thoughts have helped me clarify my own.

View PostJimButcher, on 16 August 2011 - 03:38 AM, said:

Remember though, that Petr protects himself in these ways:

- If I had a killing role (alignment aside), I can't kill him because that would make me scum.

- If I brought this to the public (as I'm doing now), I'm scum because then the scum know about this so-called strategy.

If this really was Petr's strategy, it's quite effective until someone has the guts to speak out. I'm glad you had the guts Yan.

View PostJimButcher, on 16 August 2011 - 03:38 AM, said:

But there's still no way of knowing, unless we lynch him. Does this makes sense?

All I know is that he's confusing the hell out of me, which is never a good thing when we're trying to find scum. And, as I've said before: A stupid/confusing townie is just as dangerous as scum.

I agree that he's causing confusion while protecting himself with fear of a chain reaction if he dies. We don't have perfect evidence against him, but I think this is as good as we're going to get today.

In the meantime, I'm going to proxy you, Yan. I might not be around to change my vote after hearing Petr's defense, so I'll let you judge whether it's worth it.

Proxy: Yan (JimButcher)

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#115 Pandora

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 06:38 AM

Yan, you raise some very good points.

I was also one of the "random" people contacted, and it certainly raised my eyebrows.

It would be remarkable for all eight and Petr to be town, if indeed this is as random as Petr claims, so I don't think I'm revealing anything the scum don't already know.

I'm confused by your behaviour, Petr - both in the general conversation and the behaviour that Yan has revealed.

I wish to be responsible for my own vote, so for now I vote: Petr (Zepher) with a view to changing this if I'm presented with a good reason to do so.

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#116 badboytje88

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 06:47 AM

I've been thinking about the vote hijacking and the poisoning. It might be possible that both these things were done by the same persons. I've read a book once called the Forest in which there was an evil character who was able to choose between 3 night actions. This came to mind because both the actions were committed in broad day light. I might also be wrong. Yan your argument really makes sense and I'm looking forward to hearing Petrs explanation. Alas I to must Proxy: Yan (JimButcher) because I've got a busy day ahead of me.

#117 Waterbrick Down

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 07:31 AM

Thankfully I will not be as busy as some, so for the moment I will hold my vote. The loss of Sarah is indeed tragic and equally as strange as that of Eugene's.

Since Yan has broken the silence, I too will come out and claim as one of the ones whom Petr contacted in private. At first I thought this behavior very strange and I agree with Yan in that I could not figure how the arrangement did any good aside from keeping Petr alive. However due to his willingness to lead the charge against Barbara at first with a slightly logical argument, I thought he was possibly town. Additionally his admittance to being roll blocked before the news of a poisoner had broken out also seemed to make his town allegiance more ensured as no sane mafia would bring such suspicion on himself the night a scum kill had appeared to have been roll blocked. Overarching this entire scenario has been his constantly somewhat erratic behavior, which can be seen as either town-like (since no scum would dare draw that much attention to himself), or mafia-like (serving to distract or lead easy lynches).  :def_shrug: I'll wait for Petr's reply, but as has been stated he does have a few questions to answer.

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#118 Fugazi

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 08:59 AM

View PostJimButcher, on 16 August 2011 - 03:38 AM, said:

But this is not why I voted for him. You see, on Day 1, Petr contacted eight random people, including myself and the late Eugene (it should be noted here that earlier today Petr said that Eugene was his only ally. While this may be true as I'm voting for him right now, the statement seemed to imply that Petr had not had any private conversations with anyone else). Anyway, here is what he said to us eight:

[snip]

All I know is that he's confusing the hell out of me, which is never a good thing when we're trying to find scum. And, as I've said before: A stupid/confusing townie is just as dangerous as scum.
:sceptic:

I don't know what to make of this plan. Petr could be an over-eager townie looking to save his skin above anything else. I see no way in which this network was helping the town at all. Worse, it was designed to cast suspicion on people who may not be responsible for whatever happened to Eugene. Confusion and more confusion.

I'm waiting for a further statement from Petr.
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#119 Rick

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 09:16 AM

I have the same reservations as Falicia. I do not see how Petr's weird move of contacting random people would help us, especially on day 1. And I don't see why a townie would paint such a huge target on his back if, even if he would be killed, it would not provide us any conclusive evidence at all. As already concluded, I don't think we say it would have to be one of the people contacted that would have killed him.

On the other hand, I also don't see scum making such a weird move. If I would have been amongst the people contacted and had investigative abilities, I would have known who to target last night. Unless of course Petr would show up as a townie in investigations but actually isn't...

#120 Fugazi

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 09:27 AM

View PostRick, on 16 August 2011 - 09:16 AM, said:

On the other hand, I also don't see scum making such a weird move. If I would have been amongst the people contacted and had investigative abilities, I would have known who to target last night. Unless of course Petr would show up as a townie in investigations but actually isn't...
Good point. On the other hand, it has been suggested that some scum may be immune to investigation.

... which is exactly what you were saying. :blush: Sorry, read too quickly!
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#121 Quarryman

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 09:33 AM

View PostJimButcher, on 16 August 2011 - 03:38 AM, said:

All I know is that he's confusing the hell out of me, which is never a good thing when we're trying to find scum. And, as I've said before: A stupid/confusing townie is just as dangerous as scum.
Exactly what I'm thinking as well.

Vote: Petr (Zepher)

I could be persuaded to unvote if Petr shows up with a proper explanation for his strange and confusing behaviour, but for now I believe we're better off without him.
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#122 Shadows

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 11:26 AM

View PostJimButcher, on 16 August 2011 - 03:38 AM, said:

Vote: Petr (Zepher)

Not to worry, a lengthy explanation follows.

As many of you have noticed, Petr has been acting strange and erratic. Most notably, today he proxied his vote to Samuel, who we know has something strange going on with his voting ability.

*snip*

All I know is that he's confusing the hell out of me, which is never a good thing when we're trying to find scum. And, as I've said before: A stupid/confusing townie is just as dangerous as scum.
Strong start, strong finish. I can't argue with this logic, especially since nothing better has been presented for us to consider.

Vote: Petr (Zepher)

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#123 Bob

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 11:29 AM

Vote: Petr (Zepher)

I had believed him to be a townie based on the way he was charging after everyone who spoke, but he's rather confusing and annoying. As others have said, we are indeed better off without him.

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#124 Hinckley

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 11:34 AM

Vote tally

Barbara (Bob the Construction Man) 1 vote ([Zepher])
Petr (Zepher) 8 votes (CallMePieOrDie, JimButcher, [Inconspicuous], Pandora, [badboytje88], Quarryman, Shadows, Bob the Construction Man)

24 hours remain in Day 2.

#125 Dragonator

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Posted 16 August 2011 - 11:40 AM

Yan has raised some serious concerns. In my opinion, Petr's actions seem very blunt and destined to fail as an attempt at scum manipulation. So either he is an over-enthusiastic townie or he wasn't thinking too well when he made this little plan. Looking at Yan's statement however, I currently feel voting for Petr is the best course of action for today. We have a lead, we have suspicious behaviour, let's follow through on it.

View PostFugazi, on 16 August 2011 - 08:59 AM, said:

I don't know what to make of this plan. Petr could be an over-eager townie looking to save his skin above anything else. I see no way in which this network was helping the town at all. Worse, it was designed to cast suspicion on people who may not be responsible for whatever happened to Eugene. Confusion and more confusion.
He could be an over-eager townie, yes, but as you say, the "network" is more designed to benefit Petr himself than anyone else. Something just doesn't add up here, and I want an answer.

Thus I will Vote: Petr (Zepher)

Also, I note Samuel's vote did not count again. :look:

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