Has LEGO Castle Become Cliche'?

[WesternOutlaw]

Recently, I was browsing the new LEGO Castle Kingdom images, and as I did so, I couldn't help to think...

Has LEGO Castle Become Cliche'?

While part of me wants to think that LEGO Castle has withstood the test of time, another part of me can't help to wonder, is Castle getting old?

Since the introduction of LEGO Castle with the classic yellow 375, to some of the best castles ever made, then to rainbow knights, followed by the rejuvenation of the theme with Castle 2000, are we ready for yet another Castle theme?

The new theme certainly looks interesting, but I must admit that I would be just as happy if LEGO re-released each of the Classic Castle sets as legends, although this comparison might be a separate topic of it's own. Personally, I'd like to see LEGO delve into ancient history themes with Roman, Greek, and Egyptian civilizations and leave the Dark Ages in the dark for a few more years.

So what are your thoughts? Is LEGO Castle timeless or has it become tiresome?

[ProducePrincess]

Well i personally wouldn't want ancient history theme to replace castle . i would like it to be like how we had vikings and knights kingdom at the same time.

The thing that i'm finding tiresome about the castle themes are the sets are too similar. I would like to have a real mountain fortress set or at least a castle similar to these two castle 1 and castle 2. These set's both have a landscape that also affects the way the castle is built instead of a castle like this where it's pretty flat except for the odd burp inbetween.

All these giant seige engines that lego is putting into the castle theme are the thing that has really gotten tiresome for me. All i want is a simple well designed trebuchet or battering ram , not some massive flickfire missle launching battle tower.

castle has become a little tiresome but i don't want it to be replaced.

[Tyrant]

It might be due to the fact that Castle is my favorite theme, but I believe it is timeless. I do believe it has stumbled along the way, but which of the themes that have lasted a while haven't stumbled? The upcoming incarnation looks promising. It seems to be a throw back to the older style using more current techniques (in some cases anyway) and with more current styles (more detailed torsos with double sided printing, for instance). I think interest will remain because the middle ages will continue to interest people, even if only because a large chunk o ffantasy stories use it as a backdrop.

Having said that, overall the Castle line could use a little more variety to keep it fresh. The Dragon Outpost in the upcoming series is an interesting change. More midrange buildings like that or the Black Falcon Fortress of old could help keep things interesting. Another way to keep it relevant could be to make a larger, more detailed (and by necessity more expensive) castle.

Edit to add: I believe Castle can coexist with other Historical themes so I don't see the reason to cancel Castle to impliment Egyptian/Roman/Greek themes.

Edited March 21, 2010 by Tyrant

[Athos]

I'm not sure cliche is the right word. That's the draw of castle to me. All the castle cliches (knights in armor, maidens in distress). I think a better term is 'old hat.'

And I don't think its that either. The new factions and elements keep it from being the same thing over and over. And when they go a different direction in castle (KK2), everyone gets up in arms. So we must all like cliche.

Though I would like to see some other eras explored too.

Steve

[gunm]

I wouldn't call it cliche, old hat, or tiresome at all. The medieval/fantasy theme is timeless and will always have a following as there's definitely a lure with knights, castles, dragons, trolls, wizards and the like. Lots of play possibilities and imaginative stories to tell with this genre, although I can understand sometimes one needs a break from being absorbed in any one thing.

[Batbrick]

I'm not sure a theme can become cliche anymore than the action film genre can they both have formulas present but its in the variations that they can be successful.

That said I know what you mean TheBrickster, though I don't think cliche suits so much as tiresome. I love Castle, but ultimately I think another historical theme needs the spotlight, no matter how fantastic it gets such as the Viking theme.

Batbirck Away!

[The Cobra]

If Castle has become tiresome, what about Pirates? (nearly) Every 2009 set was a remake of an older one.

Back on target: a little more fantasy would help (and I don't just mean Trolls, Dwarves and never_seen_Elves), but I still think this is a Timeless theme.

[lightningtiger]

Great Lego themes are timeless - and it's our own and also the childrens creative minds that make it timeless !

I voted timeless, castle along with city, trains, even Star Wars is truely timeless !

I'm a conformist! FOREVER !

[Svelte]

I admit I don't find Kingdoms very inspiring - maybe because it seems quite similar to the 07 Fantasy line apart from the figs and colours of the factions - and I think I liked those aspects of Fantasy better.

But then, as an AFOL, I've bought the big KK1 castle, the KK2 line from 2004-2006, and almost all the Fantasy sets. They definitely improved as time went on so Kingdoms doesn't feel like an exciting 'leap' to me - just more of the same.

And to be honest I think I'm suffering from BBF syndrome - Bley Building Fatigue I just can't get excited about yet adding more large bley constructions to my collection.

I *am* much, MUCH more excited about the Prince of Persia sets with their amazing colours, parts and figs, as well as their unique designs, and even the Harry Potter Hogwarts, which looks much more solid and Castley-based than many others in that line. So even if Kingdoms isn't that exciting, there is still a lot out there that provide Castle-type builds in a more fresh and original way

[Cutty]

Just scanning over all prevoius posts here, I'll add my 2 cents anyway:

All medieval-related themes TLC did in the past, well excluding those Power-Rangery-KK2 sets for obvoius reasons, tackled the essential themes prevalent in our own cultural sphere. And these are "noble knights", "distressed maidens", "wise kings", "wicked sorcerors", "deadly dragons" aso. Most of this stems from vocal and scriptual traditions dating back for millennia in some cases (dragons and heroic characters were already found in mesopotamian epics older than even the oldest texts of the bible!).

On the other hand there seemed to be little variation to the medieval-themes over time, which is cool in a way given collectors, parents and children (it's still a toy, no? ) had consistency in parts, motifs and overall compatibility. Variation went rampant with KK2, which I STILL think wasn't as bad as people want to make it out to be. Introducing the now fading "Castle"-line things were rectified into a more positive direction with putting away some outlandish design-choices and introducing a more "fantasy-literature" rendition of a medieval world while still keeping a design-frame that "rings true" to actual historic medieval times. Given there are trolls (I will not call them orcs! That is foul Tolkien-speech! Bleh!), dragons and undead all with fantastic war-machines, the main human faction was quite awesome on its own.

With the upcoming of the "Kingdoms"-line we see reduced fantasy-elements in favour of a more human approach, although it still remains that "ringing true"-quality over totally historic accuracy.

So what's my point in churning that write-up out? The Question: Timeless or tiresome!

From what I said above I think tackling themes inherent to our culture's overall scriptual tradition does make it timeless.

What do superhero-comicbooks/movies do else? Same thing all over!

And in rotating design-approaches over the last years TLC avoided too much tiring repetition, ALTHOUGH (!) they are a little fast in actually replacing appealing lines for something new. Tiresome? Not generally.

Yet as I mentioned somewhere in another thread I am sitting here with a want for more of the fading "Castle"-theme. It doesn't feel complete in my book! And that IS tiresome at least to me.

Be well,

Cutty

Edited March 21, 2010 by Cutty

[FilmGirl27]

IMO, it's a bit tiresome, not really tiresome though.

I'm starting to find it a bit boring, but then again, I never really was a big fan anyway.

*runs out of the topic* Don't hurt me!

[Norro]

It's fairly inevitable that I would vote timeless ; )

However while the theme never gets old the set selection certainly does. I think many of your perceived complaints could be alleviated by just widening the set bracket away from the stereo-typical 5-9 sets each range comprises.

I personally am not that excited about 'Kingdoms', the figs/accessories look nice, but I still hate bley ; )

God Bless,

Nathan

[ProducePrincess]

And to be honest I think I'm suffering from BBF syndrome - Bley Building Fatigue I just can't get excited about yet adding more large bley constructions to my collection.

I *am* much, MUCH more excited about the Prince of Persia sets with their amazing colours, parts and figs, as well as their unique designs, and even the Harry Potter Hogwarts, which looks much more solid and Castley-based than many others in that line. So even if Kingdoms isn't that exciting, there is still a lot out there that provide Castle-type builds in a more fresh and original way

I agree with you on BBF syndrome . I wonder what other colours could work for castle though maybe white ,tan ,black , or even dark grey could be used.

Those colours don't have the kindof clean and shiny good guys look that bley castles have , and tan would make it look like hogwarts in the end

[ziljin]

I think they should release historical sets alongside castle. Since Medieval knights are historical. Rulers and warriors existed in nearly every historical empire. And plenty of human enemies.

[blueandwhite]

Personally, I don't think that the Castle theme is any more or less cliche than any of LEGO's other themes. Town/City certainly has had it's share of police stations, fire stations and airports. Any space theme most certainly will include a space ship or space station and what is a Pirate theme without a ship or island fortress? It almost goes without saying that a theme like Castle will recycle certain popular ideas or concepts as new LEGO fans are brought into the fold. As an AFOL, I find that this challenge is brought against LEGO Castle on a frequent basis yet I'm not really convinced that Castle is any more cliche than any other theme that LEGO has fashioned in the past two decades.

I always get the distinct impression that many LEGO fans feel some distain for the Castle theme as it indirectly interferes with LEGO developing a theme that they genuinely want (a Greek or Roman line, or the return of Western for example). The fact that Castle chugs along year after year while different eras in history continue to be ignored must be incredibly frustrating for fans interested in those time periods. For those of us who are dedicated Castle fans, I suspect that LEGO Castle will never get old. Conversely, for some of you who continue to pine for something different, LEGO Castle is probably regarded more as a hindrance than anything else.

I'd be very interested to see whether fans who feel that the line is cliche are predominantly fans of Castle or if they have a stronger interest in another, possibly competing theme.

[ZO6]

Predictable and sterile. I think that those two words define what Castle has become.

Predictable - There is the flagship castle for the good guys, often a smaller fort for the bad guys, another even smaller outpost, and then a whole range of siege engines. Other themes may be predictable as well, and have recycled designs every couple of years, and I'm not saying it's fine for them to be like that - but there is really no reason for castle sets to be so similar. It's not like you're trying to design a police or fire station or something else you see on a day to day basis, castle designs (and all the sets within the theme) should be much more imaginative. Mix things up more!

Sterile - What you see is what you get. There is little in the way of hidden play features, details, or accessories. Everything is bare-bones. We know these Castle sets can have so much more to them, just look at some of the new Harry Potter sets.

Other thoughts: The first castles started out as four sided structures built on plates. We then moved onto castle designs that incorporated raised baseplates - sometimes for the better, and sometimes for the worse. We've now come full circle - back to building structures on small plates. I'd personally like to see some more interesting designs, either by using raised baseplates again and incorporating the castle into it for a more organic design, or else doing something different such as with the Forestmen sets.

Give us more details and accessories - this could be fire pits, tables made out of a couple of bricks with a goblet or two on them, more secret compartments for treasure to hide in, etc. Many of these things could be built out of a low number of bricks, so prices should not really increase, and they would really enhance playability and the look of the sets.

Note: I haven't bought many castle themed sets from the past decade, so I'm itching to pick up most of the Kingdoms ones despite their shortcomings.

Edited March 21, 2010 by ZO6

[Jack Bricker]

Well I think that the Castle theme is just where it should be because in a sense they are remaking the old sets but, with new colors and better emblems. I do agree that all of the Castle themes are very similar but, so are the Pirate themes. I don't think people would want Castle to end like the Pirates theme did. I would like to see the Castle theme get a little more historical like us actual coats of arms and perhapes have some crusaders but, I think our world is just too politically correct to accept such things.

[Calanon]

I believe it's a timelessly tiresome. Yes, that doesn't make sense, but we seem to get repeats of all the same sets, just made better an with new factions. Sometimes made worse, but often better. If it were really tiresome, people who already have a lot of castle sets wouldn't bother buying those new ones.

I must say, I agree with the above about the sets. It would be nice to see a decent mostly brick-built good and bad castle of equal size without the use of those wall pieces. I do like siege engines, but as long as they are good looking and realistic.

The MMV was a breath of fresh air in the castle line, IMO. Sets like these appeal to children and AFOLs due to the brilliant design, unique new things such as the cows and the two soldiers/guards for added playability. I'm sure a good, realistic functional Lego windmill would appeal too.

[The Penguin]

I suppose that Castle nowadays is turning into a good, predictable moneybag. In that I fully agree with ZO6. The sets vary in design and colours, but basically remain the same. Do you remember the hype around jester fig when it just vame to light? That happened because LEGO had introduced something really new, something never done before. Same with MMV.

I suppose that in order the theme not to become tiresome or cliche, TLC should definitely find a good balance between "generic" trends in the theme and "heroes" ones. What I mean is that heroes-oriented KKII obviously failed (though there were some nice ideas there) while generic soldies classic sets no longer, IMO, may be very interesting to kids.

A good attempt has been made in Fantasy Era, but, really that was not enough.

Good day, ladies and gentlemen! )

[Batbrick]

Hmmm, I agree with what Svelte said, the bley thing is quite irritating. Not that I dislike the colour, I'm currently in need it for my Gotham that I can't seem to shutup about

But it would be good to see a greater variety of colour such as in the prince of Persia theme.

Batbrick Away!

[DaleDVM]

Castle is a timeless theme that is certainly cliche. However, which theme isn't cliche? In fact... all of LEGO is Cliche. Buildings and vehicles... Vehicles and buildings... That certainly does not make it tired.

I think some AFOLs forget that this is a childs toy and most children buying current castle sets were too young to even remember the Knights Kingdom sets from a few short years ago. None of them have any clue about the classic castles I got when I was younger. Every castle release is new and different to children as it is likely their 1st or maybe the 2nd castle they own.

I also find it funny calling a toy with unlimited rebuilding possibilities tired? As for the castle theme. I cannot think of anything more suited to build out of Lego bricks than castles? Even my nephews who collect varied themes from Star Wars and Power Miners to Pirates and Bionicle take the pieces from those sets to build of all things... castles. Lets face it kids just love castles and forts! And obviously Love is timeless.

When the Fantasy line was released LEGO designed some very new and interesting sets for us to purchase.

The Skeleton Prison Carriage was certainly unique looking.

The Skeleton Tower with it's skull face drawbridge.

The Dwarf Mine with the mine cars and pulley funtions.

The Troll Fortress was certainly unique if not perfectly executed.

The Battle Wheel while rediculous was completely new.

The Troll Ship was the first really large ship in the castle line.

The Skeleton Ship Attack gave us a dock and warehouse and a unique ship.

The Medieval Market Village was covered in awesomesauce.

They released battlepacks for the army builders out there and one for each faction so you could build up whichever faction you enjoyed.

The Ultimate Chess Set was an incredible build and design as well.

While this "Fantasy" line was new and exciting a lot of AFOLs moaned and groaned that this was all too different and we need to go back to the classics. While there is more of a classic feel to the new "Kingdoms" line, some are already calling it tired and cliche. I feel bad for LEGO it seems they cannot win. IMHO both lines are epic wins. So long live castle... it is the perfect theme for building with bricks.

Edited March 22, 2010 by DaleDVM

[WesternOutlaw]

Interesting thoughts - and it's nice to see some differing opinions on the subject. Just for the record, I love Castle and don't think it should be discontinued. In fact, part of me tends to say that it is timeless. But at the same time, I think it would be nice to see the theme expanded in more diverse ways. I applaud LEGO for offering the large Medieval Market Village (with awesome sauce as Dale mentions above ). The troll warship was an epic creation as well, and I loved the Dwarf Mine. But at the same time, the Castles have been lacking in my opinion, and a few have mentioned the burn-out with bley (part of the problem).

I started this topic as a discussion to see what castle and history fans think of a theme that has lasted a very long time, especially with Kingdoms just around the corner. I think for the most part, LEGO has really reinvigorated the theme with the skellies and dwarves in Castle 2000. Will Castle be around forever? Perhaps, but maybe it's time some new colors and concepts are infused into the theme.

[Albero - BEL]

Well. Very interesting topic being Castle my favourite theme.

I went out of my "dark age" when the fantasy line was out and I was very happy to see that LEGO had introduced some new stuff. I loved the dwarves, the crownies and the orcs. Even the skellies weren't that bad.

It is true that many people (including me) are very happy with the return of this classic style with the kingdoms theme, but nothing forbids LEGO to maintain the core of classic sets and style (chariot, main castle, etc...) adding something new.

The effort made with the Medieval market village, which I personally consider the best set ever, was going in this direction.

It's enough to surf a bit this forum or other forums to see how many ideas for new sets there could be. I must also admit that a return to modular buildings would be a very wise choice (we see that, partially, in kingdoms).

At the same time I would welcome very very much some historical themes, but not to replace Castle, but to go in parallel.

These are my 2 cents.

Andrea

[BearHeart]

Personally, I’m not tired of the Castle line. I missed out on most of big castle sets of the golden age of the 80’s and 90’s chiefly because my family didn’t have the money for those size sets.

Now, I have a chance to buy the kinds of sets that I didn’t get when I was a kid.

I wouldn’t mind if LEGO took a one or two-year hiatus from the European medieval style castles and gave us something from different time periods or different parts of the world. This has already been done once in the late 90s with the Ninja theme.

The new line is called “Kingdoms” rather than “Castle” which opens up these possibilities. Who knows, maybe this is what LEGO has planned for the future.

[gotoAndLego]

Although I haven't had a Castle set since the yellow days with their brick-built horses I do feel it needs a AFOL level set. Medeival Market is a step in the right direction. A Cafe Corner, Imperial Flagship, or Emerald Night to their respective themes. Something that is really brick heavy with an emphasis on details and techniques over playability. Not necessarily something along the lines of the Star Wars UCS models as those have no real playability. I think something like that would be very inspirational; in my case, I had lost interest in City sets until the Modular buildings and Creator houses came out. Heck, a cathedral would be super cool.

Edited March 22, 2010 by gotoAndLego