Kumbbl

no problem - different opinions are absolutely fine... i especially asked for your opinions in my initial posting...and i must say, most of the replies i can comprehend - interesting views... What exactly is the difference between the M- and the L-Motor concerning size, rpm, torque?

hey, hey, throttle down, keep calm...why do you think, i'm limiting others? Nothing could be further from my intentions... everybody can do what he/she want to do... but to express my opinion is allowed, isn't it, Sir? even if it is another opinion as yours....

you can not reliable put the rpm-power of the racebuggy motor through a multispeed transmission-gearbox so the "horse power" can not be brought to the street... at least not without the danger breaking up gears and axles and some other stuff... Please show me one working showcase of a really fast driving RC supercar full featured with multispeed gearbox, steering and independent suspension (i mention these features because all these features causes a certain weight of such a car which prevents also from being driven fast by motor)... so my conclusion remains: current lego parts are not designed and meant for really fast and therefore satisfying RC-supercars... and these principle and fundamental limitations can not be eliminated by workarounds...

i partially agree too The racebuggy motor is really powerfull - i forgot... and the Pagini Zonda is a very well done RC-car - but IMHO it is not a so called supercar because it has no transmission gearbox - a RC-car with buggymotor can be fast, you are right but buggymotor with full power and e.g. 4-speed gearbox doesn't work - current transmission parts can not handle the needed torque... ==> therefore partially agreement: racebuggy-cars can be fun but this has nothing to do with these typical RC-supercars out there...these are all slow and weak - per principle... yes, agree, i can comprehend this... but under the pure functional view this motorization is unsatisfying because it doesn't work as it should work for a playable RC-supercar...at least IMHO... Another problem: current motors of lego are way too big related to the car-environment in which they should work - especially for some car functions like shifting gears, moving seats (the motor is bigger than the seat it should move - not really realistic ;-) etc... but i admit: this problem has lower priority and can often worked around...

Hi everyone, i have posted the following as reply in this thread: http://www.eurobrick...showtopic=80878 But because there this is quite concealed because this has more or less nothing to do with the 8880-MOD-thread-topic i decided to open a new topic: Wel, here we go: Thank you efferman, very well spoken! I have a very special opinion to RC-ing of lego supercars: completely unnecessary (no offending of people who build such cars! ;-) Why: Lego and its motors and transmission parts have never been designed for usage in RC controlled cars. some weeks ago i gave my son an RC controlled BMW X3 and i have to say i is a lot of fun to play with it. But why is this fun: because the cars is fast and has power.. IMHO playing with RC cars is only fun if these cars can drive really fast and have enoughe torque to climb up some hills (fast) But what about lego cars: If motorized they are ALL very very slow - beyond all bearing! Therefore IMHO the official lego set 9398 is a very boring and bad set... boring build and boring play and no learn effects for kids (except from the fact, that obviously lego is not good for RC-ing cars ;-) Motorizing (and RC-ing) of helicopters, space shuttles, excavators, backhoes or other machinery is ok and adds play-value - but for supercars the value is in the realism of the features and in the learning effect how some features of the real world cars work... (therefore IMHO the 8880 is still far beyond of all other supercars - just one example: only the 8880 has a gear shifting which comes in the closeness of a real gear box - all current (8448-based) gearboxes are far away from this, because these gearboxes are more or less like multiplexers like the 8480) There are many very impressive supercar MOCs out there, but i admit all RC-controlled have never impressed me (reason see above: too slow and weak)... whereas all manual driven with great features or great construction are very impressive...one example: sheepos Landrover would be equaly impressive if not motorized, just the working breakes, sequential shiftbox, clutch etc. are enough to be a great supercar (i really admire these features a lot but not the motorization of it)... but as a RC-model it is still somehow boring, because too slow and weak...sorry, sheepo ;-) so: let lego do what lego can do and what lego is meant for! And RC-ing of cars belongs not to that (at least not with current motors and transmission parts) - reasons see above. Just my 2 ct.... What is your opinion? P.S. @efferman: I hope it is ok, that i have also copied your quotation?!

Thank you efferman, very well spoken! I have a very special opinion to RC-ing of lego supercars: completely unnecessary (no offending of people who build such cars! ;-) Why: Lego and its motors and transmission parts have never been designed for usage in RC controlled cars. some weeks ago i gave my son an RC controlled BMW X3 and i have to say i is a lot of fun to play with it. But why is this fun: because the cars is fast and has power.. IMHO playing with RC cars is only fun if these cars can drive really fast and have enoughe torque to climb up some hills (fast) But what about lego cars: If motorized they are ALL very very slow - beyond all bearing! Therefore IMHO the official lego set 9398 is a very boring and bad set... boring build and boring play and no learn effects for kids (except from the fact, that obviously lego is not good for RC-ing cars ;-) Motorizing (and RC-ing) of helicopters, space shuttles, excavators, backhoes or other machinery is ok and adds play-value - but for supercars the value is in the realism of the features and in the learning effect how some features of the real world cars work... (therefore IMHO the 8880 is still far beyond of all other supercars - just one example: only the 8880 has a gear shifting which comes in the closeness of a real gear box - all current (8448-based) gearboxes are far away from this, because these gearboxes are more or less like multiplexers like the 8480) There are many very impressive supercar MOCs out there, but i admit all RC-controlled have never impressed me (reason see above: too slow and weak)... whereas all manual driven with great features or great construction are very impressive...one example: sheepos Landrover would be equaly impressive if not motorized, just the working breakes, sequential shiftbox, clutch etc. are enough to be a great supercar (i really admire these features a lot but not the motorization of it)... but as a RC-model it is still somehow boring, because too slow and weak...sorry, sheepo ;-) so: let lego do what lego can do and what lego is meant for! And RC-ing of cars belongs not to that (at least not with current motors and transmission parts) - reasons see above. Just my 2 ct....

Some weeks ago i have posted a solution for an AWD-RWD-selector for the 8880, but in the meanwhile i found my first approach somehow clumsy and not realistic... Therefore here is a complete reworked design which is IMHO now much more realistic in function and usage. First the final result: Direct behind the shifting gate and between the seats you see two additional lever: - The left one (next the driverseat) is the selector for AWD (all-wheel-drive) or RWD (rear-wheel-drive) mode: so now the lever is there where it should be: close to the driverseat - The right one is a selector-gate for two steering modes (details can be seen here: http://www.eurobrick...showtopic=79125 - most of the details are stil valid, some modifications caused by the AWD-RWD-selector are mentioned in this new posting) Well, now how it works: 1. the changed drivetrain (level 0): The original direct connection between A and B has been removed and replaced by the new green marked train, which includes at B an additional drivingring, a clutch gear and a selector. In the left position (as seen below) the AWD is active, in the right position (drivingring connects directly to the differential) only the RWD provides input for the transmission gearbox for driving the engine (or vice versa in case of motorization) 2. setup and design of the changeover catch: You see that 2 gray bricks 1x3 have to be replaced by a small modul built up with plates which holds a 2x4 plate with holes which in turn holds the axle for the changeover catch 3. Complete drivetrain a level 1 (steering level): You see how the new ADW-RWD fits in the complete new design of the steering drivetrain: - green is the new steering drivetrain (see above the link to the posting which describes the two steering modes) - red is the replacement of the ugly chainlink and it's a speedup of the engine pistons by factor 3 (24th --> 8th) --> results in really "flying" pistons (and dramatically alleviates motorization because it eliminates the original overdrive) - yellow is the changeover catch axle for the AWD-RWD-selector 4. the new selectors-gate: 5. some other stuff: HOG-setup: engine setup (as original): 7. Again the final result: Summary: With this AWD-RWD-selection, the mentioned two-steering-modes (see http://www.eurobrick...showtopic=79125) and my sliding seats MOD (see http://www.eurobrick...showtopic=79397) the 8880 is now one of the most functional (ie. no bodywork features like opening hood, doors etc) featured supercars at all... now i'm quite satisfied with the icon 8880 Now i will invest some mind power to the bodywork, especially opening doors would be nice...........

if anyone is "offending" the alpha and the omega of all supercars (8880) than i must play the defence lawyer ;-): ** It resembles a car very well...actually it has y very powerful design - like an american muscle car... but of course: different people different tastes But one remark i can not second: The HOG of 8880 is in no way rough, in contrary: IMHO steering via HOG is very smooth - at least with my model... not better, but one of the best b-models ever, right... P.S. **First part of my reply isn't meant to be serious... ;-)

@colinrichardson: very well spoken - no, not cynical, but probably realistic..especially the first statement about the "fame"...the second statement i would doubt: I'm quite convinced that there is one guy whi is responsible for a model who design the main layout und the key concepts - but of course this guy will consult his fellows for detail solutions and problems - and of course there is a qualitymanagement-process in the designergroup and and and... but at the end i believe that we can always name one guy who is the "father" of a model - always knowing that he has not done the job completely alone...

Nobody outside who has some good connections to a current TLG-designer - in best case to Markus Kossman, the current chief designer of TLG? I'm convinced each of the current designers knows (or can very simple research) the designers of previous models, at least of the best ones.... maybe some of the old "gurus" are still at TLG...

Hi all, just wondering because i have build this model again after some years being dismanteled in the box... and again i have to say: Cudos to the man who has desigend this lego technic icon, this pneumatic engineering marvel... sure, some sets are bigger and have more mechanics, but i do not know a set which is more realistic and more ingenious from a conceptual and design viewpoint. Combined with an exceptual good aesthetic and appearance. And this combination is really astonishing. Therefore it would be interesting to know the name of this guy... Thanks you and best regards

call it "second model of a set"... now clearer?

well, after building a lot of B-models i come to the following conclusion (for me): Very good: 8880 racer (outstanding look), 8862 combine (in addition it has plenty of space for modifications, e.g. an engine), 8480 submarine (uniqueness), 8053 harbour crane (uniqueness), 8485 T-Rex (uniqueness) Good: 8258, 8868 (ugly and few features but outstanding automatic pneumatic loop), 8479 Buggy... Common for all of them is a great look and the fact, they are quite different from the main model... most of them would be a good set for its own...

I recommend not to use half bushings because this ruins the well done design on the right hand side of the excavator - i recommend instead to move the axle completely into the hole and put a full bush on the left and put another full bush direct to the second right red beam (ie. between the rightmost beam and the second beam from the right)...looks way better and works pefectly. Thank you very much for this very very well done update of a very good old technic pneumatic set! Just finished my build an apart from my recommendation above all funtions work very well and the original character of the excavator is preserved. so IMHO a perfect MOD. Best regards

by far - the 8868 has IMHO one of the most sopisticated designs of all technic sets until now - this set is legend and will be remain legend... 9397 is not a bad set but far away from being or becoming a legendary set ever... anyway: 8043 has good chances to become a legendary set...

wow, together with Jennifer Clarks Pneumatic-Excavator this is the most astonishing Lego technic model i have ever seen..

yepp - never a good idea to sell Lego technic icons or potential icons - and the 8043 is definitvely a potential icon... complete and seldom used/played technic set-icons achieve high prizes after some years out of producrtion - at least if they come completely with well preserved box and instructions... but if you want to sell: one week ago i got a used (one times build) but near mint 8043 (box, instructions and parts look as new) for 95€... IMHO for this now OOP model a really good deal for me... in ebay all 8043 (even used ones without box) cost about 115€ and more... but first quarter in a year is expensive technic time - in november / december all prizes go down... so if you want to sell, then sell it now ah, btw: my bid is 30€

could not say it better - agree 100%

Hi, here i have posted the summaries of the MODS for sliding seats and 2-mode 4W-steering: http://www.eurobrick...showtopic=79397 I wrote: "...I can imagine only one more functional feature-MOD: switchable 4WD and RWD..."... well, here we go: Now one can switch by a lever between All-wheel-drive (AWD as the standard 8880) and just rear-wheel drive (RWD, new). As the following pictures show this complicates the already complicated drive train of the 8880 but it works very well and moving the car around still can drive high speed pistons of the first gear without vibrations. The full MOD can be applied quite easy from the underneath... Here you see the new drivertrain with the new driving-ring which switches between AWD and RWD... The new driving-ring plus two clutches are installed directly below the 4-speed-gearbox shifted by 1 hole which lets rotate both levels of 16th gears fully indenpendent but i assume between two gears of both levels there is just a distance of about 0,05 mm! but it works absolutely correct and without any friction... The next picture describes the function in detail: One remark: The optimized and most realistic implementation would not block the FWD in RWD-mode but would instead connect with another driving ring the rear drive hard with the center differential - but this would need a quite complex linkage between two driving-rings underneath the floor and this is more or less impossible with this studded construction... therefore i have decided to implement the RWD so it works but lacks somehow realism compared to real life implementations... One side-effect of my solution is: in RWD the complete drivetrain rotation with about half speed compared to AWD (this comes from the center differential and its blocked front input... i call it a feature instead a disadvantage because so the active RWD-mode is visible at a glance... ;-) the next picture shows a side-view: you see the selector need one short beam underneath but with some slopes and in black this is quite "invisible"... full contracted suspension has still enough ground clearance... Full summary: now I'm finished with my functional moding of the supercar icon 8880: It has now this RWD/AWD-mode-selector, sliding seats by a lever and a 2-mode 4W-steering-system in addition to a chain-free V8-engine drive which allows full highspeed pistons (3 times faster than standard 8880)... All these modes together fit very will into the 8880 so the overall construction and character is untouched and preserved. These three MODs uses 27 gears more so now the 8880 uses 78 gears which is a "fair" amount, even in comparison to current modern studdless state of the art supercars i would assume ;-) At the end two questions to all lovers of the 8880: - do you think these are sensful features which add value to the car? - do you have ideas (or already pictures) for a more elaborated bodywork? best regards

well, here we go - there is enough space: http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=79397

good idea - but building an icon like the 8880 with studdless liftarms would be quite a sacrilege - at least IMHO... and building just the 178th studdless supercar is somehow unmagical - at least for me - studdless supercars are designed to end - as the magnificent models of crownkillers, juergen, sheepo and some other great designers proof - more or less all of them have more or less the same features (apart from such oustanding features like working brakes or a working pedal driven clutch or throttle - but these features are quite seldom) and many of them follow the more or less same basic supercar-design-principles - the great difference is the bodywork, which is often astonishing, i have to admit... So for me it is more thrilling (and i admit less time consuming than building a MOC from scratch) trying to improve already great models/sets even a little bit more... and for this i make no difference between old studded and younger studdless models...

Hi, a week ago i have MODed the 8880 with a 2-mode 4W-steering for high and slow speed with different switchable directions of the rear steering - here are the details and pictures: http://www.eurobrick...showtopic=79125 Now i have found a very well fitting and working solution for applying sliding seats to the 8880 - a feature current supercars miss but IMHO a full-featured supercar needs adjustable seats. Applying this to the 8880 has caused my quite a headache because there is really very few space "indoor" the 8880... well, here we go: The construction is simple and sturdy and is based on a worm-gear and 24th gear, whereas the latter one moves the former one... the follwing two pictures show the function: in this modified passanger compartment a new seat-understructure will be installed, which then can be moved by the 24th gear (moved by the black lever): Here you get the results with installed seats (here in back position): And here some more pics (you see the 8880-seats can be used without any modification): Front position: Full indoor pictures: Well, before some building-instruction pics a short summary: Now the 8880 has not only a 2-mode 4WS with direct chainfree engine drive but also slideable seats by a lever - so the feature list of this outstanding technic-set is quite complete (my MODs in bold): - 4WD - 4W wishbone suspension - 4WS with 2 different modes with switchable direction of rear steering (NEW) - adjustable and slideable seats by lever (NEW) - synchronized 4-speed gearbox - V8 engine - HOG - indoor working steering wheel - boot which can be opened - swifeling headlights I can imagine only one more functional feature-MOD: switchable 4WD and RWD - apart from that only the bodywork could be more elaborated with openable doors and bonnet.... Here some pics how to build the sliding seats: Here you see one of the most important modifications: replacing the brick 1x6 with holes by a brick 1x4 with holes (s.a.-step 4 in the building instructions of the 8880) Here you see the final prepared basement: Enjoy!

By far in this sequence: 1. 8880 and 8455 - both with own strength... 2. 8459 (based on my assumption that models like 8421 are subsumed by "PF") Models like 8053 and 8265 (and some others) for me never can be "best models without PF" because these models needs essentially support by motorizing - otherwise playability is lousy....

For these guys who wants the pistons "fly": Replace the engine drive in the picture above with this bunch of gears: (you see that the idler axles have a second bearing to the right of the steering rack - this is necessary for a vibration free drive train - but all this fits very well in the structure of the 8880) In the following picture you see the full "engine drive train" - you see also how easy you can choose different engine speeds: For the two gears marked in the picture below as "upper gear" and "lower gear" you can choose on of the following combinations (lower --> upper): - 24 ---> 8 (high speed pistons - my current setup) - 8 ---> 24 (low speed pistons) - 16 ---> 16 (standard speed) The advantage of this solution - compared to the approaches mentioned above by CP5670 and allanp - is that the gear numbers at the switch box are still correct.. Any yeah, these flying pistons are funny, i like them too...

well, i have to admit, that i'm not an expert, but i thought i saw most mobile cranes in action with full lifted boom... but maybe you are right, then i was wrong ;-) but then a crane exactly once bring its boom to the needed angle - right?