Kumbbl

this and some other like (which have not "won" the entry ;-): <snip> No doubt, most of the entries in the HoF are outstanding models - but these above are - at least IMHO - sub-par with all these other legends - to be honest: they are good models but way sub-par... and such sub-par entries devaluate the HoF at all because it brings in an arbitrariness... Anyway, not a big deal, just my 2 ct...

:thumbup: :thumbup: couldn't say it better... i had in mind a similar remark some days but i admit, i didn't dare because i do not want to snub some of the builders of the MOCs now in the HoF... i always thought, this HoF should be a place of real legends and at the beginnings it was... but now it is a collection of MOCS, all of them at least good and well done but a lot of them surely far away from being legends... a legend is more than a beauty model with a lot of functions... But as jantjeuh already said: this is just my humble opinion and i didn't want offending anybody out there... and to be honest: all MOCs currently listed in the HoF are far better than anything i could design from scratch... but what i can is: To distinguish between outstanding models (regadless if from TLG or being a MOC) and "just" good" or very good models....

awesome! but why not using the rechargeable 7.2 Volt battery box instead of modifying the standard one?... the 7.2 is way lighter and should do the job very well...

here is another comparison: http://www.brickshelf.com/gallery/Kumbbl/Technic-Stuff/Diverses/supercar-shootout.xlsx In the meanwhile there are some supercar MOCs out there which probably outperform the old 8880 but overall the 880 competes still very well and it is still the best supercar lego has released - the 8448 has its pros like the modularity and some smoother looks but overall i agree: still no real successor of the 8880...

the pure pppr comparison is unfair... when comparing sets you have to distinguish between the PF-parts and the bricks/arms/pins etc... Remove from the 42009 and the 42030 the parts for the PF-components (as offered in the lego-shop) and then compute the pppr. 42009: 170€ --> PF-price: 23€ --> Price without PF: 147€ --> ppp: 5ct 42030: 220€ --> PF-price: 125€ --> Price without PF: 95€ --> ppp: 5ct You see, both sets have the same price per part ratio (pppr)... back to the question which one is the best starter set: it depends what are you searching for? if you want the full PF assortment, then you should by the 42030, if PF is not your piece of cake then choose the 42009 - if you buy both then you are probably equiped very well for building .. ;-)

i know lego does some pre-tests with kids and this has happend with the 42030 also, no doubt... but in this case i doubt that they offered the "test"-kids different steering solutions - i guess using the servo for steering was pre-set by the team cause of non technical aspects - like i and allanp have decribed above... and maybe also cause of the illegal aspect you wrote about LA-based steering... but of course: who knows .... ;) hard to answer without any insider knowledge... but i admit: it would be very interesting to know something about the design process of this model - maybe the designer will tell us some infos in the future - as has be done for the 42009....

there is one notice: steering is one of the most important features of a driven vehicle and therefore it should perform well (at least well - not to mention the realism, but it should at least perform well and suitable) - but two of the recent flagships, the unimog 8110 and now the 42030 front loader, fail in exactly this feature: in both models the out-of-the-box steering is crap (IMHO) - for the Unimog it can at least be fixed fast and satisfying with few cheap parts...

well, you are right - but they have more to do with reality than the servo (for this steering) because at least the perform as in reality (from an endresult viewpoint) even if the underlying ground principle has nothing to do with reality... but this would be a good compromise... fully agreed - have assumed the same above... To avoid misunderstandings: For me the 42030 is not a bad SET (it has its pros like the full PF assortment for an overall fair price) but it is an average MODEL...with a better steering and a more balanced design i would rate it as a good or maybe even very good model... but still being away from outstanding...

i agree with every word... these are the reasons why i rate the 8265 higher...it is the better LEGO-MODEL (if RC is not the most important feature - as for me): More balanced design and much more interesting build (and lets face it: lego technic is not only for playing with the finished model, it is also about BUILDING the model, build by kids!) both are very well spoken and again i agree at 100% - nevertheless i think using the servo and this binary control (full, center, full) for steering was the wrong compromise decision.. why? - playability: if you want the best playability with a LOADER (not a RC car, here we talk about a loader!) and you want really loading and feeding dump trucks with buckets of sands then you need a precise control about your loading and its steering angles so can precisly heading the sandheap - such a jerky full-center-full steering is not really satisfying here.... and with such a slow speed of a loader 5 to 10 seconds from full left to right are really not a problem.. matches perfectly - usage by children: yes, you are right, lego technic is mainly made for kids but: not all model for all kids regardless their age: models like the 42030 are not made for kids 4 or 5 years old (with this age i would agree with you, then a servo would be the best solution) but such a model is made for kids about between 9 years old and above - and these kids can perfectly steer an articulated loader with a slow and not-return-to-center LA-driven steering...do not under estimate kids - stressing parts like the LAs: IMHO the stress applied to the steering LAs at the end points would not be higher as the stress to the servo and related parts when "bashing" the full and heavy front part of the loader in one jerk to the left or to the right... (sorry for my clumsy english) Well, maybe there are other aspects which lead the designer to make the steering with the servo, so e.g. providing the full PF motor assortment in one set... but from just technical aspects i see really NO advantage when using the servo for this loader steering, and i mean really NO - not even playability (s.a., why not) Of course Lego can not really fulfill the slogan Technic as in reality, but the steering of the 42030 is the complete opposite... well, LAs are not as in reality but they REACT and perform (from a result viewpoint) as in reality which is IMHO often a senseful compromise (as e.g. in an excavator like the 8043) - but the servo driven steering of the 42030 has really nothing to do with reality: neither ground principle nor performance nor result --> simply nothing and therefore it is a really poor solution and the wrong compromise - LA-driven steering (or maybe even pneumatic+compressor driven) would be also compromises but they would be better ones... Just my 2ct

Well, that's your opinion, i have another one...

No, i'm referring to the standard motorization which only powers the front bucket...this is essential for my because turning LAs by Hand is a nightmare, and its also enough for me because the RCing stuff is Not so important for me... I do not play with it in a sandbox .... ;-) I agree concerning the hand powered LAs, but the 8265 has One of the best motorizations especially when done with a PF switch... Very well Integrated in the set and makes the 8265 a very good model...

wow - there are some really well done minis - but this F1 racer and the waterplane are my favorites until now... couldn't say which one i like better...

An incredible beauty

Jim, i agree with you that 220€ (probably there will soon some discounts) are a really fair price for all this stuff... BTW just the PF Elements are worth anout 125 or Even more... But nevertheless i vote for the 8265: it Looks better at least overall, the Front of 42030 is nothing less than ugly. And the motorization of 8265 is implemented very very well - IMHO One of the best add-on motorization of TLG sets... I agree with blakbird: it comes Down to the question If you like full motorization and RC or If you like more building complexity... The build of 8265 is really fun... And wat i have seen building the 42030 is really boring... And RCing is Not the most important feature for me.... But it is a really good parts pack...

Yes, maybe - depends a little bit on the price... ;-)

8069... less than two years ago... by far not the best set - but it was a lot of building fun for me after ~ 30 years darkness and has fixed me on ;-)... so i have collected quite all interestings sets from < 10 (the 80ies sets from my childhood i found on the attic) to about 110 sets in less than two years..

IIRC there is a thread called "what makes a set a good set?" or something similar... more or less this is the important question also for flagships... My critierias for must-have flagships are - in this priority: 1. complexity, well done internal design (e.g. modularity) and clever solutions 2. functionality 3. Innovation 4. Realism rsp. authenticity 5. Playability 6. Look 7. well done B-model Outstanding examples are e.g.: 8880, 8868, 8480, 8479, 8485, 8455, 8258, 8043, 8110 and to a lesser extent the 42009 (really no innovation)

well - if they sell 42030 for 200€ in Germany than this would be a really fair offering - just all PF-components have a value of ca. 125€ (according the prizes of the PF-components in the lego online shop)... in this case i must change my "rip-off" remark to "bargain" ...

from an absolute functionality viewpoint maybe but only maybe: 8275: has more or less the same functions: drive and steer and two additional functions - and yes, i agree, the 8275 is boring too - BUT: at its time the 8275 was very innovative because it was the first IR remote controlled model with the new PF components... therefore the 8275 was way more interesting than the 42030 9398: concerning functionality it is boring, of course - BUT: it is the first RC crawler and therefore it is somehow innovative The 42030 is just another loader...well it is RC but what else? the 8265 is even more beauty (at least IMHO) and can be perfectly "electrified"... and: no other function than loading (8069, 8265, 8862, 8455...) has be done more often by TLG - and now again the 42030... cawlers and dozers are way more seldom... But of course: people at TLG are not stupid and therefore i'm sure they give the mass what the mass want to get - and probably the mass want to get the next loader incarnation... and i'm sure the model will sell well... but not everyone has to be part of the mass anyway: there is no need for an agreement concerning this topic - i wish all new owners of the 42030 much fun with this model!

hmm, i have to admit, you are right... i have calculated the avarage prize of a part with 0,07€ (based on some recent sets without PF and without pneumatic)... with this avarage prize of a part the prize of the 42030 matches quite well the prizes of 9398 and 8043 (BTW: the retail prize of 9398 was not 200 but 170 - 200 would be way to expensive for the parts and PF-components) so i would unsay the "rip off"... yes, probably you are right here too... Overall: seems that i was completely wrong... but that's ok for me - thank you for you good and helpful answer! BTW: nevertheless the 42030 is a boring model i will pass - and probably my "rip off" remark was slightly biased by this opinion .....

Well, probably... But to be honest: i give a sh** to a license... For me it doesn't matter If a model like a loader looks like a real brand because this adds nothing to building fun, beautyness and playability - the excavator 8043 is the best example for my opinion: it has no license but it is simply agreat lego model and became already an icon... I highly doubt that 42030 will ever become an icon...but future will show... Well, maybe a license for a real world icon like a unimog makes sense, and maybe also for some car brands like ferrari or others which are known and recognized by most of the people and children... But who cares if a loader is a Volvo or something else?! A front loader - regardless of volvo, liebherr, catapillar or something else - is for sure no real world icon and only a minority of the target group would recognice and care if a loader is a special brand... So such a license add nothing to such a model apart from costs.. Just my 2ct

For this set this is quite a rip off... Another reason to pass...

WOW!!! Great excavator boom section. Can't wait to see the whole machine...

Indeed... His mobile crane is one of the Most impressive and awesome i have ever seen... You can find it in his brickshelf folder...

Thanks for clarification! But One qestion to 1: am i right that the original crane of Jennifer has suspension on all three axles? Or have i misonterpreted the description and pictures on her website? To the ranking: why does you rank this crane higher as e. G. That One of pipasseyoyo: http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=535367