mostlytechnic

I've got 2, since I put the lights and motor on one channel of the receiver. No problem doing that. I'm not sure if a third (for lights plus a double motor) will fit or not, I'll check tonight. thanks, I didn't realize that. The photos I'd looked at (mostly wikipedia) were from angles where it appeared the first car hump was flush with the front. That would make sense to me, but hey, I'm not a high speed train designer. Your first pic though I think I'm gonna go add to the review, since it's SO perfect!

Give lego a call - was it sold by amazon themselves or from a third party seller? If the latter, it's possible someone stole the parts out, but my guess is a bad packing job and Lego will probably make it right.

Found the motor-reversing thread: http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=63461&hl= I've got both a yellow cargo loco and a Maersk that have double motors this way. Work great.

wow, debating whether or not to show this to my wife. She'd love it, but might expect me to build her one now :)

I know i'm looking forward to your reviews - if nothing else, there's always something new to see and maybe copy.

Great coupling setup there. Lego should have considered something like that for the Horizon Express

For dual-motoring it, I'd seriously look at modifying the motors themselves. I did it before (I know I've got a thread on here about it; I'll see if I can find it) but just open the train motor and switch the wires connecting to the motor. Takes a little soldering, but not too hard. Then you've got a motor that runs backwards. Means you don't need a switch inside the loco :) I made a couple of them for my layout.

Indexed by Moderator Lego 10233 Horizon Express Lego's newest adult fan-oriented train is the Horizon Express. Based off the French TGV (most notably the 1980s orange livery), it's a high-speed passenger train. The TGV has a distinctive sloped nose and end-to-end symmetry, so Lego designed this set for AFOLs to buy a pair and put them back to back. The set comes as a stand alone train, but includes instructions for motorization and works fine on all Lego tracks. Even if you only plan to display it, I'd recommend getting some straight track lengths to put it on. When this set was announced online, the train fans immediately began poring over the images, looking for any details of interest. A few things quickly became topics of discussion: The SNOT arrows on the sides of the locomotive (ok, so technically they call it a "power car," but I'm sticking with locomotive throughout this review since that's what most people would call it), the windows, some new parts like the pneumatic connector being used in the pantographs, new colors - lots of orange - and the few stickers and printed parts. Lego generously provided this prerelease set to Eurobricks for reviewing, and EB generously provided it to me for this writeup. Enjoy! Name: Horizon Express Set Number: 10233 Pieces: 1351 Price: US $129.99 CA $149.99 DE 99.99€ UK 79.99 £ DK 899.00 DKK Minifigs: 6 Theme: Expert Creator Year of Release: 2013 Links: Bricklink Peeron Brickset The Box... The Box by mostlytechnic, on Flickr I came home from work to find this - a white box all the way from Denmark. With a Lego address label... Opening the Box Inside the Box by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Inside, some genuine European bubble wrap. I wonder if it's different than American bubble wrap. Metric dimensions? Different smelling air? Do the bubbles sound different when you pop them, sorta like how European police sirens are different than our American ones? Oh, wait. No one cares about the bubble wrap. There's also a Lego Horizon Express set in there. Better get that out fast and get reviewing! The Box, Front The Box, Front by mostlytechnic, on Flickr The front of the box has a nice action shot of the train. Note that there's not really track its running on - don't want to possibly confuse people into thinking track is included. Being a European box, it's a bit plainer than our American versions, but it's got nice insets of the dimensions and minifigs. It's also marked "Expert" - apparently Lego is now highlighting the larger, AFOL-oriented sets this way within the Creator line. The Box, Top The Box, Top by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Like other Creator sets, an inventory of parts is on top of the box. Unlike most, it's crammed full of tiny parts since there's so many in this large set. I love that the 1:1 size indicator is the SNOT built arrow graphic from the side of the locomotive - it's a part the fans have been discussing since the set was first revealed, so Lego is obviously thinking about the target market clearly with this set. This one's for the fans. The Box, Back The Box, Back by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Unlike the front, the back of the box is crowded and busy. Lots of action shots dominate - opening up to show the interiors down the left, the big station shot at the bottom, and details of the car furnishings at the top. The middle has plugs for the expandability of the set. Two can be run back to back to make a longer, more accurate looking train, and you can pick up PowerFunctions parts to electrify the set. The Box, Bottom The Box, Bottom by mostlytechnic, on Flickr On the bottom are the mandatory production location listing (Denmark, Hungary, Mexico, Germany, China, and Czech Republic in this case) and choking warnings. There's also though a neat shot of the train with the roof off, so buyers can see inside. Nice way to fill the space with a new image. The Contents The Contents by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Lots of bags here - numbered 1 through 3 (since there's 3 cars, I bet I know how they're divided...), the three train baseplates, a bag with the magnetic couplings and tubing, and the manuals and sticker sheet, nicely protected with cardboard so they are pristine. Much appreciated, Lego! The Stickers The Stickers by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Like the Emerald Night, the set includes extra stickers. The manual only has you apply the two decorative stickers, the #14 stickers to the locomotive, and the #1 and #2 stickers to the cars. If you got a second set, you could make that have locomotive #10 and number additional cars all the way through 9. That'd be a long train, but I'm sure it won't be long before a LUG somewhere is showing one off. The Manuals The Manuals, Backs by mostlytechnic, on Flickr There are three manuals, one for each car. The fronts are all the same image from the front of the box. The backs have some new (at least I don't recall seeing them before) images - no more "WIN!" kid! The Manuals, Page 1 The Manuals, Page 1 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr The first manual starts with more new graphics - instead of the old pictographs telling you not to work on carpet and not to dump them all together, now we get a minifig kid building one group at a time. There's also a very nice set of photos on how to use the brick separator - I'm sure lots of people didn't realize how useful and flexible it is, so this is a great educational tool. There's also a text and QR code reference to lego.com/brickseparator for more information. The Manuals The Manuals by mostlytechnic, on Flickr The instructions themselves are plain but clear. There's no extraneous graphics, just clear instructions. I had no trouble at any point in the build knowing what to add - helped of course by the rarity of grey parts, but still, it's a nicely made manual. With all the black in the set, the new outlines on black parts help a lot as well. The Special Parts The Special Parts by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Lucy the engineer here will show us some of the special parts in the set. There's the brick separator - despite the image in the manual, it's NOT ORANGE! That's nice, since practically the entire rest of the set IS. There's some train slope parts in orange and black, the decorative train wheel sides, a printed windshield (new print, as far as I can tell), the pneumatic connector in dark bluish grey (new color), a couple printed tiles (unique to this set) and a few of the new and rare 2x2 inverted tiles. Building the Locomotive, 1 Building the Locomotive, 1 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Time to start building. The locomotive begins with a train base and a rim of bricks. There are the mandatory parts that make no sense yet (the blue handles) and some grills and jumper plates at the front that will come in useful later. Building the Locomotive, 2 Building the Locomotive, 2 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr At the rear of the locomotive is this interesting part. I assume it's supposed to be some electrical equipment (it's right below where the pantographs will eventually be), but you can see how the bars on it are used to hold the end of the snot arrows. Building the Locomotive, 3 Building the Locomotive, 3 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Here's details of how those arrows are made. It's just cheese slopes on 1x1 plates with clips, and then all attached to the bars. It's simple and ingenious, and it's a technique that many people will never have seen before. Building the Locomotive, 4 Building the Locomotive, 4 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr The nose of the locomotive is built separately. There's a number of different snot attachments used, clear headlight bricks that are *actually used as headlights!!!*, and a seat and control panel for the engineer. There's also the usual interesting part usage, such as the black grills that will never be seen and could easily have been any other 1x2 part. Building the Locomotive, 5 Building the Locomotive, 5 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr The nose is coming together now - two of the orange wedge pieces stack up, and orange and while tiles and curves are added to the snot connections to make the lower sides. Building the Locomotive, 6 Building the Locomotive, 6 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr The nose attaches to the body of the locomotive by the grey plate under the driver's seat. Other parts of the body have been added as well - lots of grill bricks, some recessed handles (using those jumper plates in the beginning), and the printed tiles via more SNOT work. The tiles do make a nice transition between the orange and black, but the printing could be better. The white and orange ink aren't opaque enough, so they show the black through. It would have been better to use a white tile and print the orange and black on it, or use heavier printing of the white and orange on the black tile. Plus, this is such a specific part. The train would look strange without it since it's designed for it, but I can't see using it anywhere else. Building the Locomotive, 7 Building the Locomotive, 7 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr A row of orange adds another stripe to the sides, and you can see here all the interior space left available for eventual motorization of the set. Building the Locomotive, 8 Building the Locomotive, 8 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Ok, what on earth is this? Random parts joined together, with pins holding the brown bottom and the grey/orange top together... this is one of those moments where you are following directions without having a clue what it'll turn out being. I love those parts of building... Building the Locomotive, 9 Building the Locomotive, 9 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr It's a transformer! Well, sorta. Twist the orange parts around, thanks to the pin connections, and now you have some unique angles that will look great under the locomotive. Building the Locomotive, 10 Building the Locomotive, 10 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Bogey time. Anyone who's built other Lego trains will find these pretty normal. I love though how they build two with very different methods yet they look so similar. The left bogey uses the special train wheel holders, metal axles, and wheels, and then adds some black minifig heads and other parts as decoration. The right bogey uses technic beams as a frame, wheels on technic axles, and then the decorative side pieces. Building the Locomotive, 11 Building the Locomotive, 11 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr If you're familiar with the TGV or other high speed trains, you know they have interesting air splitters under the front end for aerodynamics. So let's make that here - note the dark tan rails inside the orange wedge. Those will be useful in a second. Building the Locomotive, 12 Building the Locomotive, 12 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr With the loco upside down, we can add the splitter. The orange wedge slides into the bricks with grooves, making a nice upside down slope. Building the Locomotive, 13 Building the Locomotive, 13 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr The grey portion attaches to the few stud holes left visible in the previous photo, and a couple orange tiles brace it all together. Building the Locomotive, 14 Building the Locomotive, 14 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Since the set doesn't include electronics, Lego fills in the interior with some decorations, much like they did with the Maersk train. There's a block of random pieces that looks strangely similar to the PF receiver, a unit that I suppose is supposed to be some electrical or motor equipment, and of course, the very nice pantographs using the pneumatic connectors as joints. They work great here. Building the Locomotive, Finished Building the Locomotive, Finished by mostlytechnic, on Flickr The complete locomotive. You can clearly see here how the printed tile doesn't quite match in color, but also how nice the rest of the unit is. There's a TON of black cheese graters on the roof. The stripes just look great, and the snot arrows nicely break up the large black expanse. Building the Locomotive, A Flaw Building the Locomotive, a flaw by mostlytechnic, on Flickr This, however, bugs me. There's no roof under the pantograph, so you can see all the way to the floor under it. Building the First Car, 1 Building the First Car, 1 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr The first car begins with a baseplate and assorted parts down one side. Some things are pretty obvious if you've build Lego trains before - the long grey plate will have some chairs on it later I'm sure, but other parts I don't yet know about - like the weird snot section at the left, or the grey neck bracket. Building the First Car, 2 Building the First Car, 2 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Now it's coming together. Chairs and racks for luggage are filling in the space, there's a computer screen, and there's long black tiles down both sides. Building the First Car, 3 Building the First Car, 3 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Time for the windows. The fans immediately jumped all over the window design as soon as photos got on the internet. These are tall windows laid on their side, so there's some fiddly snot work to make it happen. This section of the build uses a lot of small parts - headlight bricks, 1x1 plates, 1x1 tiles, etc - to hold it together. Building the First Car, 4 Building the First Car, 4 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr A row of windows goes down each side of the car and white and orange stripes are added. It's still very flimsy at this point though - only a few studs hold each side together. There's also nice brick-built doors at the end where you can add the number stickers to the window. Building the First Car, 5 Building the First Car, 5 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr This unit will go under the car to fill in between the wheels. Like on the locomotive, pins are used to make otherwise-impossible angles, and there's a pair of 2x2 orange tiles that will fill in the holes in the train baseplate from underneath. I found it interesting though that Lego used the silver 1x1 round plates. You can't see them and they're not used anywhere else in the build. Why not save a few pennies and use 1x1 square plates or even round ones in another color? Heck, I'll probably replace them on mine and have some flat silver 1x1s to use in something else. Building the First Car, 6 Building the First Car, 6 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Two more bogeys. The left is a very common Lego design, used on lots of other trains over the years. The right one is different. It's a Jacobs bogey and goes between two cars so they share it, hence the pins on the ends rather than one in the middle. Building the First Car, 7 Building the First Car, 7 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr The roof. Lots of black. I actually like the couple spots where cheese wedge and a tile break up the smooth curve. There's also some tubing running the length of the roof to mimic the power cable on the roof of the real TGV. Building the First Car, 8 Building the First Car, 8 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr A look inside the car. That strange bunch of snot work at the very beginning turned out to be a bathroom, complete with sliding door. However, as a train car, it's pretty cramped. You can't actually get a fig past the bathroom and there's studs sticking into the aisle (some snot plates were used just to stick up and keep the long window section from being pushed inside the car when you handle it). But just stick the roof on and car 1 is done. Building the Second Car, 1 Building the Second Car, 1 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Car 2 starts similar to number 1, but obviously the interior will be different. Big thumbs up to Lego for having the cars be unique. My wife saw this and immediately guessed the white overhangs will be tables (she's right). Building the Second Car, 2 Building the Second Car, 2 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr This is obviously the eating car. Seats with tables, the coffee maker, and a bar at the end. Yep, a bar. But it's Lego, so I assume they're serving fancy bottled water and maybe some sparkling juice. The rest of this car is built like the first - windows, then roof - so now we'll jump ahead. The Finished Train The Finished Train by mostlytechnic, on Flickr I love how the train flows. The stripes run the length just like they should, making it look like a complete train rather than a random assortment of cars like freight trains do. To nitpick though, I don't like how the hump at the start of the first car sticks up higher than the locomotive. I think that should be flush, but they had to cheat a little on the back of the locomotive to make the pantograph the way they wanted to. [edit: comments have pointed out that the real TGV is like this - Lego modeled it accurately. It's just not how I would have done it.] Also, the windows are too low - if you have figs seated inside, the windows are below their heads. They'd have to crawl to see outside. They look good from the outside though; it's just Lego proportions being off a bit. The limitations of Lego also mean there's more gap between the cars than there should be and the whole thing is too short, but it's still nice. I've seen some interesting work happening in the EB Train forum though on spring-loaded bogeys to fix this passenger train issue (basically, the cars can be closer together while in straight track, but then spread apart a little to negotiate curves) and I'd love to see Lego do something like that. I think it takes up space inside the car though, and they want the playability more. The length would definitely be helped by adding a second set to extend it. Sadly, there's not parts provided to make the Jacobs bogey in the middle. The official pic on the back of the box shows the double train using two bogeys in the middle. I'm sure anyone buying two sets to make a longer train will modify the middle to have the Jacobs bogey again there. Opening the Finished Train Opening the Finished Train by mostlytechnic, on Flickr The Horizon Express opens nicely for play. I especially like that the top of the walls on the passenger cars come off with the roof, making the interior easier to access. The Minifigs The Minifigs by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Here's the six figs that come with the train. It's a nice assortment: and engineer (female), a steward (male) and four passengers. I'm not a minifig expert, so I'm not sure what's new and old about these figs, but they're all nice. The Minifigs The Minifigs by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Most have back printing, but there's no second face on any of them. I appreciate though having 6 different hairpieces though. Power Functions, 1 Power Functions, 1 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr The third book of the instructions includes step-by-step instructions for powering the train, assuming you have all the needed electical parts. First, a bunch of the loco comes apart. Power Functions, 2 Power Functions, 2 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Here's what you need to power it - a speed remote control, an IR receiver, a battery box (I'm using the 6 AAA battery box, but Lego recommends the rechargeable battery box and transformer), PF lights (if you want headlights), and a train motor. Pricey if you don't already have them, although using the AAA battery box over the rechargeable one saves $50 or so. Power Functions, 3 Power Functions, 3 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr First the decorative sides are put onto the train motor. Power Functions, 4 Power Functions, 4 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr The PF lights stick into the trans clear headlight bricks and the wires run on each side of the engineer. Finally the reason for those blue handles in the very beginning is revealed - they make it MUCH easier to mount the center brick of the lights to the base of the train without disassembling more of the walls. Power Functions, 5 Power Functions, 5 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr The IR receiver and battery box mount in the space freed up by removing the other parts. This is a perfect snug fit. According to the manual, you're supposed to put the lights and motor on separate channels of the receiver so you can control them independently. Since I have multiple trains, I didn't want to use up two channels like that, so I stacked them on the receiver. At first I had the lights as the top plug, and then the battery box wouldn't fit. It's so precise in there that raising the light plug 2 plates made the cord block the battery box. I reversed the plugs (since there's plenty of extra wire coming from the motor) and it worked fine. For people who want to run dual motors, it might be tricky. You need a switch to reverse the second motor, and there's not much room for that. I don't know if a switch would fit behind the driver. Stacking a third plug on the receiver also might hit the pantograph. The Trio The Trio by mostlytechnic, on Flickr The three recent AFOL trains - Emerald Night, Maersk, and Horizon Express. Steam, diesel freight, and electric passenger. Very different in every way, but all well-recreated in Lego. Comparison to the Real Thing Wow, Lego nailed it. They replaced the TGV logo at the back with their arrows since this isn't officially a TGV. Otherwise, look how much it matches. The sticker on the nose. The grey chin. Even the little windows on the side of the driver, that they used the backs of headlight bricks to make. The cheese graters on the roof, the grills on the side, the size of the stripes. About the only way to get closer in appearance would be to have a custom nose part molded (like some of the old trains did) but that wouldn't be nearly as cool as the brick-built version. The Video (click through to YouTube to see in 1080p) In the video you can see how nicely the train runs. I never got it up to full speed, since my straights aren't long enough to do it without crashing. I have no doubt the LUGs will soon have long versions of this train running on their high-speed layouts. You can also see how well it handles curves and switches, both in forward and reverse. The nose does overhang though, so make sure to leave room around your track. The Conclusion If you're a train fan and like passenger trains, get this set. It's a great design and better than the 7938 Passenger Train. It's got the playability of the 7938, but looks better for the adult fan. The color scheme stands out and it'll look good either on a layout or as a static display model. The Ratings Value: 9/10 - It's more than the EN or Maersk cost, but there's also more parts. It has a lot of a less-common color, but not as fantastically usable as the EN's dark green or Maersk blue. Still, it's at the 10 cents a part sweet spot, has 6 figs, and all the train-specific parts, so the value is solid. Design: 8/10 - The look is good, but personally, not as good as EN and Maersk. I think the HE suffers more from the shorter design, and there's some minor flaws IMHO (under the pantograph, the printed tiles, etc). It feels less detailed than the other two, but the real train is much sleeker and less "greebled" than a steam or diesel loco as well. Playability: 8/10 - It's got nice playability, but I can't go higher since other train sets (3677, 7938, 7939) come completely with the Power Functions and track and accessories, the Maersk had containers and a truck, etc. However, this is targeted at a fan base that likely already has track and motors and stations, so I understand not including that. Parts: 9/10 - A number of new or rare parts, LOTS of orange. Can't help but wonder what it'd have looked like in dark blue or dark red though... or the modern blue and silver livery. Can you imagine tons of flat silver bricks and parts :) Overall: 8/10 - Part of this is simply bias - I'm not a big passenger train fan. Here in the US they're rare. Trains here are cargo and that's just visually more interesting I think. I appreciate what Lego did here, making a very different train from EN and Maersk, it's just not my cup of tea like those were (for the record, I own two of each of those - along with 7939 and 3677 cargo trains). For what it is, it's well done, attractive, and ripe for modding. I can already picture people making longer versions of this (longer individual cars that is) and running them on some of those high-speed layouts they have in European LUGs. It will look fantastic there. On my layout, not as much. Additionally, when I look at EN or Maersk, those are nearly flawless. The railings on Maersk annoy me since they get out of shape so easily, and EN has a cord from the tender to the locomotive if you power it, but those are minor. The printed tile and hole under the pantograph here bug me more. Still, it's a solid train and I have no doubt it'll appeal to tons of fans. Just be ready to buy 2 of them, because you know you'll want a second.

Sweet, but not worth going into the BF madness for. Parts are common enough to build it myself, but I'll gladly take it as a freebie with any online orders I make.

If nothing else, I'll have the set this coming Sat (Nov 17) from the VIP event - I'll post pics if nothing else has appeared by then.

and fraud is part of any sales... just an expense you have to plan for and accept. Some you can avoid (when I sell my used electronics on ebay, I record the serial numbers so a buyer can't swap their dead unit in a return) but some you just have to eat.

No, in the US the fig is a gamestop exclusive. No free fig from Amazon.

don't know, but I know I've spent a few thousand each of the last years. I also don't know if it's based just on in store, or if S@H purchases on your VIP card count as well. Either way, I'm sure I've spent $3k+ in store this year.

Like last year, there's a super special event at Lego retail stores in the US for the top spending VIP members. Got my invite today... For me, it's 9-10am Sat Nov 17 (ie the hour before the store normally opens on the Saturday before Thanksgiving). Has tickets for myself and 1 guest. The fine print on the back of the invite: "One free limited edition Holiday set per person with $99 purchase [i assume that's the same set others will get for spending $99 on Black Friday]. One transaction per person, with a spending limit of $5000 before discounts are applied [Wow, who's gonna drop 5 grand in one day? I'd sure love to though!] The event is open to individual consumers only who are purchasing products for personal use. Attendees may not purchase more than 5 of any single LEGO set or product and Holiday exclusives are limited to one per person." So it sounds like it's just like last year's event - you get the normal Lego scratch-off Black Friday discount at the checkout, the free holiday set with $99 purchase, and limit 5 of any particular set. Last year we also got one of the free holiday pick-a-brick boxes (that you get right now for spending $75) that we could fill right then. So basically it's just a chance to get the Black friday discount without the crowds. Don't know how many are invited - last year it was I think 25 per store. I know last year I was #1 for my store (yep, I spend a crapton there!). Don't know where I rank this year. The invites aren't quite as nice this year though - a blue and red printed card, but no plastic "wax seal" like last year. But heck, it's fun and free. Not gonna complain! Now just have to go call and RSVP. Nah, I'll just go and buy some stuff and rsvp in person...

Tried that, and it appears to work. Edited one of my posts here to turn off the fancy editor, then tried the quick edit on the RA forum version of the review, and all 3 video links were there. If I toggled that back to the fancy mode, they vanished. Guess they must be going over some limit in the forum software. I'll just keep that in mind for the future! most people will never have a problem - just us big, long review writers :) It is weird though that the bbcode after the videos stays just fine (the bolded text in the conclusion, etc) - but the videos WERE the last thing I added to the review. I had the whole thing written, added those, then saved it in the RA. When I copy and pasted it over to the Technic forum, the videos vanished and I had to re-add them, so maybe the C&P of embedded media doesn't work, so they were still the last code added to the post, so they're what gets lost?

thanks for the info - is there any way to edit a post straight into the full editor rather than having to go through the quick edit first? Wonder if that would work better for big posts.

I didn't add media tags - I just pasted the youtube links in, and the forum software added them when I saved the post. Just tried - when I hit edit on the post, it came up in the editor with NOTHING in the video section. there's just a couple blank lines between the paragraph introducing the videos and the line saying they're in 1080p on youtube. Hit cancel and it was fine. But editing makes them disappear. Tried some other things. If I hit quote on the post, it quotes it into a new post, but the videos are completely gone. Then I went to my post of the same review in the RA Teacher's section - if I edit or quote there, ONE video link remains (in media tags) but the other two videos are gone. Very weird - maybe just something with my account or something? (testing using a different video link)edit: ok, tried several different videos (mine and other peoples) and repeated editing and saving of this post, and it's working fine here. Wonder if just something weird is going on with my computer/that post. Dunno....

Yep, the rubber bands are a great way to transfer power. They can slip if you need (like on the helicopter when it's tilted all the way one direction, there's no damage to the motor since the rubber bands just slip) and you can use multiple if you need it to not slip as easily (see the hovercraft, where there's a pair of red bands driving the wheel). The drawback is they're often very tricky to get on in these complicated builds (I had to get out long tweezers on this set since I've got big hands) and they stretch over time. Most of the bands I used here were new, pulled from other sets, since the original ones were worthless at this point.

Laughed yesterday when I got an email ad from Gamestop promoting the free fig w/ the game. Of course, when you clicked through to the gamestop website, there's no mention of the fig anymore. I preordered the game for PC at my local GS months ago, so if there's no fig, I'll be .

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=75864 If I edit the post and save, the 3 videos near the end disappear. I have to re-paste the URLs and have it re-embed them if I edit anything in the post, like fixing a typo. It did this while I was working on the review over several days in the RA as well.

I've got some youtube videos for my reviews. I include them by just pasting the youtube.com/whatever URL, and the board makes them into embedded videos. However, if you edit the post later, the video links are lost. The entire media tags and URL disappear. Any idea why?

Thanks, fixed the typo. Yes, the controller would be great for keeping something running since this version of it has a jack for an AC adapter and you can lock the red buttons on. And you could probably use the programming to make the other buttons seem to stay on as well.

Lego 8485 Technic Control Center II This large Technic set cost a fortune when it came out in the mid 90s, but it was a beast. With 3 motors and a massive programmable control box, it was the equivalent of a Mindstorms set. Even the RCX was still a few years away, so this was top of the line electronics in Legoland. Instructions are included for 3 models - a hovercraft, a helicopter, and a dinosaur. I'd be terribly remiss not to mention here the excellent writeup Blakbird already did in his Technicopedia here. He has excellent renderings of all the mechanisms so you can clearly see how everything works. Definitely go check his page out - but after you read mine here of course! Name: Technic Control Center II Set Number: 8485 Pieces: 1079 Price: $219 originally Minifigs: 0 Theme: Technic Year of Release: 1995 Links: Bricklink Peeron Brickset Building the Hovercraft, 1 Building the Hovercraft, 1 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr The hovercraft begins like most old Technic vehicles, with a beam and plate frame. There's a bevel gear on one of the axles, and a pair of power cables have been installed. We'll see later what these all do... Building the Hovercraft, 2 Building the Hovercraft, 2 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr A lot gets added pretty quickly. The shape of the vehicle is now obvious. Wheels are installed (with those red belts connected to one of them to provide power). A pair of motors sit on those power cables from the beginning, with the other ends of the cables stuck down next to the motors for later connection to the rest of the system. Building the Hovercraft, 3 Building the Hovercraft, 3 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr The upper layers of the craft are taking form as well. There's a sporty yellow stripe to give a little color to the black vehicle. A driver seat is up front (but no figure is included in the set, even though it's close to Technic fig size). We can now see the second motor's purpose - it drives that black belt on the outside, which then drives the worm gear in the gearbox at the back. That gear then rotates a single wheel below to provide steering. Also note here the normal build method of the older studded Technic - bricks and plates are stacked, and then beams are added vertically to hold it all together. It's a very strong building technique, but can be annoying since you have to alternate layers of bricks and plates to get the thickness right. Building the Hovercraft, Finished Building the Hovercraft, Finished by mostlytechnic, on Flickr The completed hovercraft. The long wires are used to make a wired remote from the control box to the craft. They run through some axles at the top center to keep you from pulling them off. It's a decent idea, but the cables still aren't near long enough to actually use this way. Granted, I'm a 6'3" adult, but I'd have to pretty much crawl to drive it on the floor. A couple flex cables are used at the back to "shroud" the "fan", but otherwise there's no rare parts in this vehicle. From the control box, the red A and B buttons provide forward and reverse (driving just one of the front wheels so that no differential is needed) and the yellow W and E steer the rear wheel. Building the Hovercraft, The Rear Building the Hovercraft, the Rear by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Here's a closer look at the back of the hovercraft. A few axles and various joiners make the frame for the flex cables to attach. The fan is driven from an axle connected to the front motor so it spins when the vehicle moves. The Hovercraft's Underbelly The Hovercraft's Underbelly by mostlytechnic, on Flickr A look at the underside of the hovercraft - you can see the drive of the front wheel near the center of the photo. The 24 tooth gear behind the bevel gear transfers motion upward to an axle running along the top of the craft to spin the fan at the back. Looking near the top of the photo, you can see the steering wheel. It has a pretty wide range of motion, so this craft turns pretty sharply for its size. The Hovercraft's Spares The Hovercraft's Spares by mostlytechnic, on Flickr There are a TON of leftover parts on this build. It's obvious that the other models were the main design and the hovercraft was just a 3rd build tossed in. That's a gallon bag there, full of parts. Building the Helicopter, 1 Building the Helicopter, 1 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr The helicopter starts right off with a motor. This will eventually be the cockpit here, and that motor (double-geared down with the red belts and then down again via the worm gear in the gearbox) will tilt the copter side to side. Building the Helicopter, 2 Building the Helicopter, 2 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Ah, now it's starting to actually look like something. It's a pretty good sized chopper too. The key interesting bit here is the black frame in the center (where the cargo or passengers would be in a real helicopter like this). Right now that's attached to the motor in the cockpit which tilts it side to side. Later a front to back tilt mechanism will be installed into that frame to make a nice gimbal setup. Building the Helicopter, 3 Building the Helicopter, 3 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Again, we get a yellow stripe to keep this mostly black set from getting TOO boring. The second motor has been installed now, where the engine would usually be in a copter of this style. That one will eventually spin the main and tail rotors. There's some very interesting angles formed to make the tail of this helicopter. It doesn't appear to be right for quite a while, and then suddenly it pops into shape. Building the Helicopter, 4 Building the Helicopter, 4 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Almost done. The wheels are stationary, and the gear at the front of the turbine under the main rotor is just decoration. But you can see the axle running to the tail rotor and how a lot of hinge plates have made for a nice shape to the helicopter. Building the Helicopter, 5 Building the Helicopter, 5 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Here's the rest of the gimbal. This block mounts inside the frame in the cargo hold. The axle will go down into the support structure and connect to a motor below. That rotation will work all the way up through this gearbox to tilt the chopper forwards and back (the axle through the 24 tooth gear will support the whole weight of the helicopter). Building the Helicopter, 6 Building the Helicopter, 6 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr A look at the mechanisms. The gimbal is fully assembled now, and you can see the electrical connections on the underside of the helicopter. Eventually long cords will connect to those and provide power to the two motors inside the copter. The pin holes in the light grey base of the gimbal will connect to the support structure that's yet to be built. Lego also had to cheat a bit and put a couple gears on the outside of the helicopter since there's not room inside for them. The drive system here: There's a motor in the cockpit. It has a small bush on it, connected to the large pulley via the red belt. That drives the bevel gears, which turn the two gears on the ouside of the chopper. That then drives the worm gear and then the 24 tooth gear in the gearbox, which finaly tilts the black frame of the gimbal side to side. Building the Helicopter, 7 Building the Helicopter, 7 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr The base for the helicopter is fairly massive. You can see the abundance of Technic beams used already, and it's just getting started. The whole light grey section pivots up (except for the two light grey vertical beams at the right end with pins sticking out). There's a motor tucked into the right end of the light grey section as well - that drives the vertical axle coming up and then into the helicopter eventually. They did a nice job here of making a reliable system - there's a set of slopes on the black base that ensure the grey portion is centered when it comes down each time. Building the Helicopter, 8 Building the Helicopter, 8 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr The motor, closeup. This is obviously now raised into the air. The motor drives the vertical axle via two sets of pulleys and belts, gearing the rotation down significantly. Building the Helicopter, 9 Building the Helicopter, 9 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr A platform on the left has been added - in a moment the huge control panel will be mounted here. There's tiles on the beams since the control panel strangely has no holes on the bottom for studs. Building the Helicopter, 10 Building the Helicopter, 10 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr This is how the unit raises - when you push the left platform down, the motor on the right rises. Thanks to the interesting geometry Lego used, you get more height on the right than you lower the left. Building the Helicopter, 11 Building the Helicopter, 11 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Now the brains are installed. There's beams on the top and sides to hold it in place (and it's pretty darn solid, since there's studs on the top of the control panel). All three outputs are used, with wires running to the three motors. Well, just one motor so far, plus two cables that WILL be attached to the motors in the helicopter. You can also see here the very rare white coil that bundles the wires together. With multiple long wires like this, that's a very handy part. A pain to put on, though. Building the Helicopter, 12 Building the Helicopter, 12 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Finally some color! This large platform is light grey beams with lots of red plates on top. There's not enough plates though to make it solid, so this will have to do. Good thing the helicopter can't move horizontally though, since landing on those skinny sections would be mighty tricky! Building the Helicopter, 13 Building the Helicopter, 13 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr The platform mounts to those lonely grey vertical beams. It's only held on by a couple pins, but it's sturdy enough since it doesn't really have to support anything. The lift mechanism will hold all the actual weight. Building the Helicopter, Finished Building the Helicopter, 14 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Finally done! The helicopter itself mounts onto the lift mechanism, and the wires connect to the two 9v connectors on the bottom of the chopper. Now it's a fully functional model. One of the best features is how the lift mechanism is stable at any position. It's pretty well balanced between the copter and the control panel, plus all the pivot points in the lift mechanism are friction pins. Building the Dinosaur, 1 Building the Dinosaur, 1 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Like most builds, this one starts off looking NOTHING like the end result. We start with a motor in the center and a gearbox on the right. Quite the lengthy chain of gearing down here - a small bush to large pulley (white rubber band), across an axle to another small bush and down to large pulley (red band). That axle runs under the gearbox to a small gear and up to the 24 tooth on the right. That drives the worm gear and then another 24 tooth gear. The large platform on the left, well... looks about the right size for the control panel, right? Building the Dinosaur, 2 Building the Dinosaur, 2 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Yep, that's the control panel. The assorted beams hold it in place VERY securely. Vertical axles now come off the gearbox to the right. Pressing the red buttons on the panel raise and lower them. There's small stubs that block the liftarms from rotating too far, and since the drive is coming via rubber bands, they'll slip when the arms are blocked. Building the Dinosaur, 3 Building the Dinosaur, 3 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr With the stand done for now, it's time to start the dinosaur itself. This unit has an obvious motor up front and there's gearbox buried inside at the rear, but they're not connected. The rear gearbox drives that double-pulley on the side (and a matching one on the opposite side). And somehow, I suspect those axle connectors hanging down to the sides of the motor will eventually connect to the vertical axles from the stand. The spacing is right at least... Building the Dinosaur, 3b Building the Dinosaur, 3b by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Here's the same unit from above. Note that the pulleys on each side have the frictionless pins opposite each other. Seems like a good way to drive reciprocating motion like legs or arms or something. And there's strangely a big hole up the middle. Building the Dinosaur, 4 Building the Dinosaur, 4 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Now more of the internals are coming together. The front motor drives (or at least it will shortly, when another rubber band is added) the worm gear on the side. There's lots of pins on the sides ready for the vertical reinforcing beams to be added as well. Building the Dinosaur, 4b Building the Dinosaur, 4b by mostlytechnic, on Flickr The back - the motor goes through a couple stages to drive the pulleys on the sides. Building the Dinosaur, 5 Building the Dinosaur, 5 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr There are so many pivot points here it's crazy. So much flexibility, this has to be the tail. Building the Dinosaur, 6 Building the Dinosaur, 6 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr The dino is starting to take shape. The tail is attached to the back of the motor unit, and several flex cables link it together. There's one up the top center for support, and a pair on the sides that hook to the pulleys to make the tail sway back and forth. Building the Dinosaur, 7 Building the Dinosaur, 7 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr A lot of black beams have been added. Too bad the slope bricks at the back of the body have stickers on them... with all the pieces in this set you'd think they could have avoided reusing stickered pieces like this. On the technical side, there's more pulleys added up front and additional flex cables on the sides. These flex cables route through the dark grey tubes so they can bend but stay in place. Building the Dinosaur, 8 Building the Dinosaur, 8 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr It's almost alive... there's cute little T-Rex arms with "claws" connected to the side pulleys so they move. A short flex cable hooks to the back of the neck for support, while being connected to a cam in the center of the body so it pulls. Building the Dinosaur, 9 Building the Dinosaur, 9 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr A head. And yes, I realize I mounted the lower jaw upside down. It'll be fixed for the next image, I promise. Didn't seem worth taking the set partially back apart to remake this photo though. So, the side flex cables hook to the balls on the sides of the steering arm to rock the head side to side. Another flex cable hooks to the back of the head to hold it up and make it open and close as it moves. Building the Dinosaur, 10 Building the Dinosaur, 10 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Nearly done. The hole in the center (remember that, from many steps ago?) goes onto the stand and there's a single axle through the body for support. The vertical axles do connect to the body, and the power from the body motors hooks to the control panel. The whole thing is pretty well balanced on that pivot axle, so it's easy for those vertical axles to tilt the whole body up and down. Building the Dinosaur, 11 Building the Dinosaur, 11 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr A leg. With so many pivots and angles and beams it'd take an engineering degree to design. Building the Dinosaur, 12 Building the Dinosaur, 12 by mostlytechnic, on Flickr Two of those legs, mirror images of each other, attach to the body and the base. They look great, even though they don't actually support any weight. It's a great way to hide the light grey support stand though. The Complete Beast The Complete Beast by mostlytechnic, on Flickr From the front, the dino looks properly menacing with the teeth and eyes. The Rare Pieces The rare pieces by mostlytechnic, on Flickr So, this is a prime example of Lego being financially unsound back in the day. This big red plate - there's 4 f them in the set (well, 2 left and 2 right). This wing-like piece was only in this set and one other, years later, in red. It came in black/white/grey at the same time, so the only reason it was used in red for this set was to make the helicopter platform stand out. Why not use simpler, common red pieces instead? Second piece is a cute white coil. It is used to bundle wires together. It only came in this set, the earlier 8082 Multi-Control set, and a handful of educational sets. It's a great part, but not necessary. Finally, this steering part on the right. It's used in the neck of the dinosaur, but a similar effect could have been done with axle connectors and liftarms, just not as neatly. This was the ONLY set to ever include it in black, and it only ever appeared in white in a late 80s Technic car. There's also 5 flex cables in the set that only appear in this model. The Video A set like this demands video. This is not a static model like many Lego designs - this is motorized and programmable and moving. I made a separate video for each model, so you can see what you want easier. The hovercraft - cool idea and mechanically well done, but not nearly as impressive as the other two. Plus I just can't get over the short cable length. The helicopter - awesome! There's clever design here with having some of the motors inside the chopper and one in the base. The balance and friction pins let it stay wherever you put it vertically, and the motion is just cool. It's a nice design aesthetically and very playable. The dinosaur - in my opinion, the star of the show. It might not be as playable as the helicopter, but the motion is just so unique and well done. It's impressive to see a toy like Lego, rigid and bricklike and normally used to make simple mechanical machines, be so fluid and natural in its motion. The use of flex cables is vital to making this work and it's done brilliantly. (Note though in the video that my set is second hand and old. It was obviously left built as a dino for a long time, since the flex cables have a permanent bend to them. This makes the tail movement not as smooth as it should be.) This is hands-down the version I'll keep on display - though I'd love to have a second set to have the helicopter on display as well! Hm, I wonder if I get just a control box, build my own stand, and mount the Sopwith Camel on it and motorize it... that'd make a sweet combo too! (all videos can be seen full 1080p HD on YouTube) The Conclusion: GET THIS SET if you love Technic. It's such a change from the trucks and construction equipment that we're used to. The build style is so different (for you youngsters who only know the studless era of Technic) and the designs are expertly done. I actually though skipped one whole feature of this set - the programability! That control box can save and replay "programs" of button presses, so you can automate your creations. It really was the precursor to the RCX and NXT systems, although there's no logic in the controller. It simply records your button presses (including timing) and plays them back. Two sequences can be remembered at a time. Frankly, the main use I'd see for that in this set is for display. If I was going to have the dino or helicopter out on display, I'd definitely record a nice set of movements so I could play them back with a quick button press for visitors. The Ratings Value: 10/10 - It was an expensive set in its day, and it's expensive now. However, you get the control box, 3 motors, tons of Technic bricks, and great designs. Design: 10/10 - The design is outstanding. All 3 models are visually spot-on. I personally love this era of Technic where models weren't trying to look cosmetically perfect with lots of panels. It's still instantly recognizable and lets you see the internals. The mechanisms are brilliantly executed and make great use of the part selection AND the control panel. Playability: 9.5/10 - I wanted to give another 10, but those short wires on the hovercraft still bug me. Since no one will play with that model for more than a few minutes before building the other two though, I only took off half a point. Parts: 9/10 - There's tons of bricks and plates, a bundle of electronics, flex cables, and more. However, it's mostly black and grey, so not visually terribly interesting. Overall: 10/10 - The helicopter and dinosaur are simply awesome, some of the best designs ever to come from Lego. I'm glad I spent the money to get this set!

Gorgeous design - I particularly like the curves in on the sides of the upper windows.

Yep, full review coming in a day or two... will be here in the Technic forum. Photos and writeup are done, just gotta finish the video portion.