Offensive stereotypes

[Bobskink]

When looking at the new Space Police sets I got really mad at the narrow-mindedness of the character design. Maybe it's to farfetched, but it was the first thing I thought of. Why are the villains aliens. It's not like Mars mission, there the villains were one particular race of aliens, but now every alien is a villain. It's so racist in my opinion. Of course no one will really get offended, but still, Lego is for the kids and now it tells them that what is strange, must be bad.

Wouldn’t it be so cool if the Space Police guys had an alien sidekick, it’s also an easy and recognizable stereotype, but a better stereotype.

Also, why do only the Woman have a screaming face.

I'm not a feminist or American, I don’t get offended that easily, I understand that certain old values must go to keep making profit, but they should be more careful.

[AwesomeStar]

Feminist OR an American? Sounds teeny-weeny bit racist-y.

Just sayin'

Then again, I'm from good old England and what-not. But yeah, I agree with you.

I don't really like teh look of the sets at all tbh. They just look too.... MOC'ish. Most MOCS are amazing, but the sets look like something a kid done in a couple of hours.

Just my two pence.

[Joebot]

This topic popped up over in the Space Police thread once the first new pictures showed up.

I, for one, agree with you. I think this sort of thing is important, especially in a kid's toy. Obviously there are no real alien speices that are going to be offended by their portrayal in a Lego set. That's not the point. I just don't like how TLC sets up "The Other" as the enemy that must be defeated.

Besides that, it's boring. It's been done to death. The human vs. aliens/monsters/whatever has been repeated over and over again.

I said this in the other thread -- how cool would it have been if TLC had created a multi-species Space Police force, like the Green Lantern Corp. That would have been awesome. Instead, it's just another dull humans vs. aliens conflict.

[meschepers]

I'm not a feminist or American, I don’t get offended that easily, I understand that certain old values must go to keep making profit, but they should be more careful.

Are you serious with this? You made a topic about stereotypes and you go and make stereotypes about a whole nation and a whole gender? Maybe you should look at yourself about falling to stereotypes before you go and crusade against them. I am actually from the U.S.A. and the only thing that offends me is ignorance and hypocrites.

The truth of the story could be that maybe in the Space Police Universe that the aliens are criminals. Maybe they have been repressed so much that they are forced to steal, rob and murder in order to survive. All they are doing is striking back at the establishment that has held them down for generations.

Or, it is much easier for children to relate to humans as the good guys since the kids themselves are, presumably, humans. You can't blame LEGO for all the Sci-Fi movies where the aliens are the bad guys. The Aliens could just be defending heir homes (Like in the Mars Mission theme). I know that as a kid I would use the aliens in any kind of line of toy that I had as a bad guy and that didn't turn me into a racist.

Don't forget the current Castle line where the bad guys are skeletons and trolls. They are different from humans. Does that mean LEGO needs to recall the Castle line because the "bad guys" are different?

Edited February 13, 2009 by meschepers

[Bobskink]

Are you serious with this? You made a topic about stereotypes and you go and make stereotypes about a whole nation and a whole gender? Maybe you should look at yourself about falling to stereotypes before you go and crusade against them. I am actually from the U.S.A. and the only thing that offends me is ignorance and hypocrites.

That was a joke duh ;)

About the Castle line, this is such an ancient theme. You could also look at it as different races (humans, dwarfs, evles...) united against evil.

Anyay, I'm not offended and I don't mind that much, but I do think Lego should be carefull about these things.

Edited February 13, 2009 by Bobskink

[Hinckley]

If you're going to start a debate like this, have a solid argument. Solid like sculpey! There is a scared face for the men, there are actually two different ones, right? So, American Feminists can settle down because saying only the female face is scared is seriously misinformed.

For the issue of the Space Police, I agree that it'd be cool for the Space Police to have an alien sidekick and have human villains and all that PC American Feminist Crap. But, from a test marketing standpoint, and I've talked to the head of play themes about this, there are certain test-markets where any product that shows human on human violence doesn't test well. So, instead of trying to please everyone and be PC and get all down and dirty with different stories and deep characters, they just stick to human vs. monsters. It's easier for them to make cool toys for us that way. And in the long wrong, the heads and arms are interchangeable because they're LEGO and you can play whatever you want at home. Please don't sit there and chase the aliens with human and cry because of how unfair and racist it is to the make-believe alien race. Perhaps you can even start an alien civil rights movement, or play that the police force is corrupt and the persecuted bad guys are actually good people-it's your play time, do whatever you want.

[meschepers]

Sorry for my reaction but sarcasm/humor is hard to read when it isn't in person, only in text. When I see things like that it just makes my blood boil.

Perhaps the aliens aren't always evil, just defending themselves. There are two themes that bring that up in my mind: Mars Mission and Power Miners. In Mars mission the humans came to the planet to mine the ore (or whatever it was). The aliens were defending their home and their resources much as we would. But the humans basically enslaved them to power their machines and continue mining. I see the same thing in Power Miners where the rock people are defending their territory from the human miners. It is also something we see in nature where we as the humans feel we are being attacked by wild animals but what a lot of people don't look at is the fact that as the human population grows the animals have to become more aggressive as their homes are being overtaken by people (there are places in the U.S.A. where bears are walking through people's yards because a housing addition has been built on their habitat). It could be considered a metaphor for nature in the modern world where the humans are taking over and nature has to do something to protect itself. More likely it is just natural for kids to see aliens as evil since that is what it has been since Sci-Fi began.

As far as LEGO goes I agree that they should be careful in who the bad guys are but I think that aliens are a safer bet than other humans. Though I would really loved to have seen at least one of the new Space Police sets have a couple of Blacktron guys from the original Space Police theme. They could have a great spaceship. But also on that note I would liked to have seen a few aliens on the Space Police force as well... it only makes sense. But, as creative people i shouldn't be too hard to switch out a few parts between aliens and Space Police and make a mixed force with aliens and humans on both sides of the law. That's what I'd do if I had kids who were buying the theme.

Once again, sorry for me reaction to the first post and sorry that this was a rant of it's own.

Good day everyone.

[The Green Brick Giant]

I think the new IJ sets are a lot worse than aliens being bad guys. They have redder skinned minifgiures, and I'm sure some group will not like that.

[Bobskink]

Sorry Hick, but you make it seem to easy I think. Kids can't make the connections adults do. I think there's a big difference between on race or al of them.

I know that there are male scared faces, but only two on a million. For the girls it's a lot more these last few years. If Marion has a scared face, why not continue the stereotype and give Indy an angry face and his fater a conserned face.

But starting an alien civil rights movement sounds cool, maybe a good and funny way to mention this problem.

[Captain Green Hair]

I buy the sets, i make up who i think is good or bad, or both or whatever...

Be free and make up your own mind, instead of letting toys make it up for you for crying out loud!

Toys have been like this for years, when i was a kid it was like that and it has in no way affected my way of thinking.

Parents and environment are a bigger influence then this.

[Bobskink]

I think the new IJ sets are a lot worse than aliens being bad guys. They have redder skinned minifgiures, and I'm sure some group will not like that.

but they aren't really bad guys, they are just an ancient race who try to protect there land.

@Captain green hair Funny, I did the same thing with my Joe's and Cobra's.

[Ricecracker]

have a solid argument. Solid like sculpey!

How 'bout solid like your head is currently ?

I actually found 3 different scared male heads, just within the first 3 pages of minifig heads on the Bricklink catalogue:

1. The one Hinckley had

2.

3.

Versus 5 female heads:

1.

2.

3.

4.

5.

Truthfully, I actually think that you could use the first one I listed under female, for a male.

Really, I don't believe that little kids, the target group for this line, will actually think about it in a racist way. Also, everyone knows that LEGO is for making your own stuff, they even encourage people to build the sets once, then build whatever you want with the parts. I know that younger kids mix and match minifigs, and monsters, and don't really stick to the "story" given to them by TLC. It's all about imagination, and hey, if you wan to go around calling TLC racist for this, then by all means do it, just have an argument a little more solid than Hinckley's head. Just my thoughts though.

[eti]

I don't like the idea that all 'play sets' need good and bad guys. Just put in a number of characters and let the kids decide who's good and who's bad. Mabye most characters will be good sometimes and bad at other times, just like real people.

[Bobskink]

if you wan to go around calling TLC racist for this, then by all means do it, just have an argument a little more solid than Hinckley's head. Just my thoughts though.

That's my point, I don't think they are racist, but I just think they should be carefull, before we know they do really offend somebody and what will hapen if that person starts somekind of lawsuit.

[Ricecracker]

That's my point, I don't think they are racist, but I just think they should be carefull, before we know they do really offend somebody and what will hapen if that person starts somekind of lawsuit.

I agree, but I don't think this is anywhere close to being racist, or near a lawsuit. Really, they made up the characters, so they actually could be created bad. We just don't know.

[The Penguin]

Well, gentlemen, I must say, that I can agree with Bobskink.

Lego should be careful. Very careful. It has already made quite an offense for russians, for example. I mean the Indy line. What is disturbing, is that in sets based on first 3 films those nazi scum is called simply "bad guys", while in sets based on the fourth film we have "russian guards". And not once it's specified that russians are evil and so on.... As the result, BTW, there are no 4-th film Indy sets in Russia. And I assure you they'd have been selling greatly!

Just another example, gentlemen. ////

[Athos]

I can't believe we're even having a discussion as to whether we should worry about being offensive to imaginary aliens...

Steve

[Matn]

Oh, well. I think we don't must forget that LEGO is and always will be a toy. When I was little and playing with LEGO and other toys I didn't think if something was racistical or not. Actually, just like Captain green hair said.

[Oky]

For the issue of the Space Police, I agree that it'd be cool for the Space Police to have an alien sidekick and have human villains and all that PC American Feminist Crap. But, from a test marketing standpoint, and I've talked to the head of play themes about this, there are certain test-markets where any product that shows human on human violence doesn't test well. So, instead of trying to please everyone and be PC and get all down and dirty with different stories and deep characters, they just stick to human vs. monsters. It's easier for them to make cool toys for us that way. And in the long wrong, the heads and arms are interchangeable because they're LEGO and you can play whatever you want at home. Please don't sit there and chase the aliens with human and cry because of how unfair and racist it is to the make-believe alien race. Perhaps you can even start an alien civil rights movement, or play that the police force is corrupt and the persecuted bad guys are actually good people-it's your play time, do whatever you want.

Well said, Hinck!

I usually don't care much for such issues. I agree with some of the arguments here, but we all know very well that TLC has no intentions of teaching kids racism or anything; they are just trying to create factions that are easy to differentiate.

I must admit, though, that that Jelly who is hooked up to the Crystal Reaper disturbed me quite a bit...

Also, I don't think that any of the licensed themes quallify for an argument here. Lego is just copying what they see in the movies. If anything, it's the films that are racist.

Also, why do only the women have a screaming face.

Actually, in addition to the ones Hinckley and ricecracker posted, all the Power Miners have a scared face. So there are actually more scared men than women.

Edited February 13, 2009 by Oky Wan Kenobi

[The Penguin]

Kids, yes. ) But I assure you that kids (7-12) understand much more than we might think. ) Post-modern age, you know.... )

Edited February 13, 2009 by The Penguin

[Raphy]

Guys, look at Agents! The bad guys are actual humans. Maybe freakish (metal jaws, slime faces, flame hair?) but they're still humans. And besides.....

The aliens and skeletons and trolls and rock monsters must think that the humans are the bad guys, right? So it all depends on whoes side you're on!

[Derek]

Perhaps the aliens in the sets are just the bad guys of alien civilization. There can be other normal aliens, but these are just the ones the police are going after. When have we seen a civilian in a CITY police set?

Edited February 13, 2009 by darthperson

[natelite]

I can't believe we're even having a discussion as to whether we should worry about being offensive to imaginary aliens...

Steve

of course we do! we dont want them to get offended and come here and start disintegrating us like in that movie "mars attack!" now do we ?

[Athos]

of course we do! we dont want them to get offended and come here and start disintegrating us like in that movie "mars attack!" now do we ?

Bring it on.

Steve

[Joebot]

Really, I don't believe that little kids, the target group for this line, will actually think about it in a racist way.

Agreed, kids don't THINK about it that way, at least not in any consicous, self-reflective sort of way. This is much more subtle and insidious. I'm not suggesting that TLC is doing this stuff intentionally. They don't have any shadowy motives. They're just trying to sell cool toys to young kids. But that doesn't mean they shouldn't think about this sort of thing though.

I think the issue is not one of people being offended (unless there's a big Squidman demographic out there that I'm not aware of). The issue is teaching kids that the Other (whether that be an alien, troll, monster, or basically anyone who doesn't look like you) is evil.

TLC used to be more careful about this sort of thing. When you look back at the Native American sets or the Islander sets, none of them have any built-in conflict, where Native Americans were fighting with the soldiers. The two groups were sold in completely different sets with no overlap. I have to think that was done intentionally.

Speaking of Native Americans, don't the descriptions of the Mars Mission storyline sound like the American West? The astronauts show up, claim "manifest destiny," and start rounding up the Martians and exploiting the natural resources. It's really a weird theme.