LEGO City Problems/Rant

[lightningtiger]

Funny that someone said 1930's theme......

Plus this town set never released.....

If release these days it would be called either Friend's or Creator.

[notaromantic]

Well, the word itself, "building", implies one thing - to build. I agree with many of the replies - time to start building your "buildings". I believe Lego has done their job well - they've provided us with the raw materials, sans of course all of those specific parts we'd all like to see (doors and windows, please...), and they've provided us with a great platform from which to begin. And the Lego community has taken up the slack, meaning that never before have I seen such a plethora of Lego inspiration, tools, and supplies, and other various resources available to an AFOL of experience, or to a budding AFOL. Take advantage of it. Asking LEGO to also provide us with a detailed imagination, or to request that they deliver on all of our own whims, is going a tad too far and seems to actually defeat the purpose that LEGO begin with - to get children, and large children alike, to use their own initiative and take that great leap - to create.

You may just feel frustrated, like many of us have and do, caught in that transitory period - between collector and MOC'er. Between "buyer" and "builder". And there, when your buying is not as satisfactory as it once was, and your building gene has been tapped, it is easy to place the blame upon LEGO - for not giving us what we need - to realize our own visions. But then I look around at all of the great, great work being done, using LEGO as an artistic medium, by clearly very artistic people. Which, to me, indicates that it is not the medium which is lacking - but rather, the artist using it.

MOC-ing is not an easy task. Art is not an easy task. Creativity is far from an easy task... But at least LEGO engages us in the act. Not many modern companies care to do so, in fact, they'd rather we not think too deeply about what we're doing as long as the $$ is rolling in.

The only sad thing is that LEGO has become such a market, that it may price some of us out of working in certain colors. I'm finding it extremely difficult to build in dark red or dark green this year, whereas last year those parts were easily obtainable. But that's another conversation... But then again, hey, if that inflation in price-per-piece is only because there are now more and more people "building", then it can't really be that bad of a thing now, can it?

Edited September 4, 2014 by notaromantic

[Rob1321]

Funny that someone said 1930's theme......

Plus this town set never released.....

If release these days it would be called either Friend's or Creator.

WOW, that's awesome.

[CityBuilder]

Funny that someone said 1930's theme......

Plus this town set never released.....

If release these days it would be called either Friend's or Creator.

I've seen the second one, but I've never seen that first one! It looks really cool, I love 1930's things. Do you know what it's called, if it was ever released, or where I can find out more about it?

[lightningtiger]

There is only those two images of that set and sub-theme.......though you can see where perhaps some modular and Friend's set ideas might have come from right ?

(i.e. the bakery in the 1930's scene.....looks to be an inspiration of the Friend's Bakery )

[notaromantic]

The little yellow plate-roofed, red-chimneyed house at the far left is adorable. Might have to try that...

Better pics anywhere?

Edited September 4, 2014 by notaromantic

[SweetiePie88]

To those who want "more buildings" - I'd love to hear some suggestions of what type of buildings, specifically, you'd like to see.

What about a lego themed building. That'd be perfect for a lego city. It could be 3 floors tall. There could be a floor that's a lego store styled layout, a floor that could be like a big builders area, and a floor with maybe the history of lego.

Or what about a dentists office or a doctor's office?

[Vincent Kessels]

I'm kind of tired of the "made for kids" excuse. Does anyone know how many adults buy Lego? Like what % of market they make up?

Only 5% according to TLG.

[AirborneAFOL]

Well, the word itself, "building", implies one thing - to build. I agree with many of the replies - time to start building your "buildings". I believe Lego has done their job well - they've provided us with the raw materials, sans of course all of those specific parts we'd all like to see (doors and windows, please...), and they've provided us with a great platform from which to begin. And the Lego community has taken up the slack, meaning that never before have I seen such a plethora of Lego inspiration, tools, and supplies, and other various resources available to an AFOL of experience, or to a budding AFOL. Take advantage of it. Asking LEGO to also provide us with a detailed imagination, or to request that they deliver on all of our own whims, is going a tad too far and seems to actually defeat the purpose that LEGO begin with - to get children, and large children alike, to use their own initiative and take that great leap - to create.

Bravo, Sir. Fantastic post, top to bottom. Some marvelous points. If I may, I'd piggyback a couple other elements (pun intended?) for consideration:

1. Look at Lego a decade ago. There was no Creator Expert line. There was no Pick-A-Brick (either online or in-store). The secondary market (bricklink, Ebay, Craigslist, etc) was in it's infancy. The TLG's Ideas concept did not exist. When you consider that TLG is the worst's largest toy manufacturer, and that it's privately owned (meaning they can take a longview without being beholden to quarterly shareholder sentiments) - the past decade has been a windfall for AFOL's. Looking at things from Lego's longview - the past decade was incredible progress, and gives much to be excited for in the decade ahead. Is there more work to do? Certainly - AFOL's are a market, like females, Lego has only begun to tap into.

2. Marketing. At the end of the day, Lego needs to be profitable. Sure, they can maintain some lines at a loss, if they see it as a longterm investment. But on the whole, they need to produce what sells at a decent margin. While Lego's marketing is probably not perfect, they're clearly decent at it lest they wouldn't be where they are. And the unfortunately reality of that is that for every Museum or Bank that may appeal to AFOL's, we're outnumbered tenfold by grandparents buying a fire or police theme for their grandchild. Take this with a the standard heresay cavaets, but my local Lego store manager (a huge volume outlet - Mall of America) told me just last weekend that the Fairground Mixer sales have been paltry, and the Creator Expert line as a whole is routinely a "dead space" on their floor, compared to the swarms packed around the Star Wars and other liscenced themes. HOWEVER - while "first time buyers" flock to the lisenced themes, City and Creator Expert lines are a much more longterm market - kids are discovering Lego via the lisenced themes, but spend 5-years settled into a City or Castle theme. That implies while Lego won't be filling their finite shelf space with "buildings" - they will be around long after the latest hit movie theme is long gone. City builders need to embrace the fact its a marathon, not a sprint.

3. This brings me to my "million dollar idea" for TLG. The AFOL secondary market is thriving. Many of us make very lucrative returns on "investments" - buying a few extra sets and tucking them away. The Fire Brigade and Green Grocer routinely sell on the secondary market at double or triple their retail cost from only a few years ago. Lego should create a "Vault" (much like Disney has) for their retired sets. Every 5 years or so, they could produce a limited number of previously-retired sets, and even at a 25-50% mark up from the original retail, I'm positive they'd sell. Otherwise, those of us who became AFOL's only years after one of these "unique buildings" was retired will be left spending our money on the secondary market - or griping about how Lego only produces a very few unique buildings per year.

[Blakstone]

I agree AirborneAFOL. Though the growth in value of retired LEGO sets has gotten to the point where they are like uncut diamonds on the black market.

LEGO sees themselves as offering a cradle to grave product at this point. The Duplos are compatible with the Juniors and LEGO System and minidoll lines. They have sets that appeal for every age range though it is the modulars that are aimed at the adults.

My biggest issue with the modulars are the lackluster minifigs. But LEGO has a solution for that too, the CMF line.

Sure, I wish that LEGO made products that targeted me a bit better such as continue LEGO Lord of the Rings, bringing back Vikings, Forestmen, and other historical sets for example. I think every AFOL and KFOL for that matter has a wish list of what they want. LEGO cannot meet all those demands... unless you MOC. But even then many find that they want new molds and prints to better define their world.

The fact that you can buy individual bricks via The LEGO Store / Shop@Home or through third party sites such as Bricklink makes a lot of things possible.

[Rob1321]

I agree and disagree with many of the things posted above. But I also find it hard to believe LEGO can't come up with something more interesting than cops and robbers for the city line. I just think it's a step in the wrong direction.

[Joebot]

HOWEVER - while "first time buyers" flock to the lisenced themes, City and Creator Expert lines are a much more longterm market - kids are discovering Lego via the lisenced themes, but spend 5-years settled into a City or Castle theme. That implies while Lego won't be filling their finite shelf space with "buildings" - they will be around long after the latest hit movie theme is long gone. City builders need to embrace the fact its a marathon, not a sprint.

This is a really interesting point. I've often thought that the appeal of City is fundamentally different than any other Lego theme, because it's designed to mimic the real, modern world. The attraction is not in the "action / adventure / role-playing" that most Lego themes go for. The appeal comes from building a model of what you see around you. It's more akin to model trains. Back in Ye Olden Days of "Classic Town," the Town product line provided you a wide variety of stuff to populate your little town. And it was all designed to go together. The cars actually fit on the freakin' road plates, for example. It was cohesive and easy to expand. Just buy a pair of straight road plates, and boom, your town just got bigger, and now you've got a couple of empty spaces, just perfect for the pizzeria or the auto mechanic or the hospital or the cargo center. As Airborne put it -- it's a marathon. City builders are in this for the long-haul, not just some flash-in-the-pan trendy movie license.

I think Lego has totally lost sight of that. They seem to trying to market City as just-another Play Theme, no different from Chima or Ninjago. Most sets have a built-in conflict (usually cops / robbers). There are sooooo many vehicles. I think that approach is wrong. City is unique, and the product design should reflect that.

[Sarah]

I'm kind of tired of the "made for kids" excuse. Does anyone know how many adults buy Lego? Like what % of market they make up? To me LEGO is getting stale and boring. Especially with so many themes aimed at children. Sure, LEGO probably is for kids, but a kid probably buys 1 or 2 cheap sets where as an adult buys 3-5 moderately priced to expensive sets. I just think LEGO needs to take a better look at their market. They're LEGO for crying out loud. I find it hard to believe that all they can come up with is the same old boring cops/robbers theme. More buildings is most def what we need. How about micro apartments? Small but fully sized houses? Some Hot Rods? Old fashioned gas stations? Motorcycle shop? (a cool one a la 70s biker). How about a small radio station out in the desert? That would be an awesome/fun little build. Maybe LEGO just isn't for me. Maybe I should find another more adult friendly hobby. Sigh.

For what its worth though I believe the new small cottage/hut theme in the Creator line is a step in the right direction. Also loving the dual shop theme. Def excited to see 2015s hut and dual shops.

You underestimate how many sets children buy/have bought on their behalf.

At age 6 (when we first bought Legos for my son) he got $50-ish sets from two different aunts and uncles for his birthday plus we purchased one at that level. Then he bought two more $30-ish sets with birthday money he got from other relatives. And two or three more smaller sets.

Before age 6, he got the Lego truck from an aunt and uncle.

He went to a friend's age 6 party and EVERY gift that kid got from his party guests (except for ours) was a $30-ish or more Lego. and it was a park party -- not Lego themed at all.

My son has been to same-aged friends houses for playdates who have much more extensive lego collections than his. In fact, I get the feel we may be on the small end and we are probably lower middle class around here. (Though with richer relatives who have few children to shower their generosity upon)

Edited September 4, 2014 by Sarah

[TomKraut]

I don't want Lego to create houses or other 'normal' buildings for City. I want them to make whatever sells best in that line. City is Lego's must successful theme, and has been for DECADES! I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing...

As long as City is a cash cow for Lego, they can afford to give us amazing, probably low ROI things like Modulars and Ideas-Sets. Or Creator houses, for that matter...

[Rob1321]

Just because adults don't make up a huge chunk of the market does not mean we don't account for a good amount of their sales. For example, a child buys 3-5 minor sets in about an year worth about $20-$45 dollars a piece, where as an adult will buy a couple of modular sets worth $200 dollars a piece. So an adult already spent about double what an average child would spend in an year. Not to mention buying road plates and various other sets just to start off a little city moc. Also consider the Star Wars line, a child normally buys 2-3 battle packs and plays with them for a couple of months and forgets about them. An adult on the other hand buys 3-15 battle packs for their mocs. Not all adults but plenty do. So as I said, adults spend a lot of money on LEGO. Adults are responsible for this site and the rising popularity of LEGO. Just look at how big LEGO has become at various cons and such. To many children LEGO is just a part of childhood which they eventually outgrow, but us adults have been here and will continue to be here even after various trends pass. We will try our best to keep LEGO alive. Sure, LEGO isn't struggling now, but that doesn't mean that one day they won't. Especially with all of these new technologies available to children. Video games/electronics etc etc. My point is simple, LEGO does have an adult market, and a prominent one at that, I believe it would be foolish of them to ignore that.

[Rick]

Just because adults don't make up a huge chunk of the market does not mean we don't account for a good amount of their sales.

I seem to recall that the 5% figure that was mentioned earlier refers to sales. Adults (who buy stuff for themselves) don't make up 5% of TLG's customers.

[Blakstone]

My point is simple, LEGO does have an adult market, and a prominent one at that, I believe it would be foolish of them to ignore that.

Agreed. But don't mistake LEGO not giving you exactly what you want as them ignoring the adult market. Check Shop@Home and filter by age range. The highest one they have is 12+ but that covers a LOT of sets especially the very expense ones.

But you don't have to take our word for it. This is what Jørgen Vig Knudstorp, CEO of the Lego Group, had to say recently:

Most sales makes Lego well with parents who buy toys for their children. Most of the criticism comes but of the adult Lego community. Does it pay at all then made ​​to listen to these hardcore fans?

Yeah, absolutely. It's like buying a car. Most people, like myself, do not understand how a car works. But you still want to have a high quality car. The car company developing a new car should not just ask me how the car should be, but also a racing driver. The tests the car and leads it to its limit and can say so, what can be done better to improve the driving experience. So I look at the community. The community are the experts.

Some people say to me: Thank you so taking good care of our brand. For them, Lego is a movement which they possess. I'm not her master, but her servant. I try to treat them that way. I learn a lot from them. You can not say exactly what will have a five year old child next year at Christmas to me, but I need other people. But can you tell me what makes a great construction experience and what is the fascination with Lego. They do better than most people.I learned a lot from the community. I visit every year three or four fan conventions and spend there a few days to mitzukriegen, which are just the latest topics.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Blakstone

[TomKraut]

I seem to recall that the 5% figure that was mentioned earlier refers to sales. Adults (who buy stuff for themselves) don't make up 5% of TLG's customers.

Yup, it was sales, not customers. And catering to only 5% of your market the way TLG does is simply amazing! Which lets me to believe that Knudstorp is telling the truth and that he sees real value in the AFOL base besides the revenue they create.

[Lind Whisperer]

Yup, it was sales, not customers. And catering to only 5% of your market the way TLG does is simply amazing! Which lets me to believe that Knudstorp is telling the truth and that he sees real value in the AFOL base besides the revenue they create.

Not to criticize, but I severely doubt that the actual amount of sales is as low as 5%. A few years ago, as recent as 2006? Quite possibly. But the numbers of new AFOLs constantly joining the ranks keep swelling, and for every two hundred that join, only two or three ever 'take a break/go into a Dark Age*.' And for every new AFOL that joins, LEGO's sales to AFOLs go up another $$.

*The implication being that both will eventually return back to the hobby.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Lind Whisperer

[TomKraut]

The number is more recent, from 2010 (Source: http://brickset.com/article/567). I'm sure the AFOL market has grown since then, what with the Lego Movie and all, but I am still surprised that it is this high!

When you are part of something, it is hard to view it objectively, especially when you are as deeply embedded in it as we (active users at Eurobricks) are in the AFOL community. For us, spending money on Lego is normal, but for the vast majority of people, it's absurd (except as a gift for children).

[Rob1321]

A lot of these numbers are speculative at best and some guesses. No way of telling who adults are buying for. Especially if you're buying at a local store. Sure, they have surveys but they don't tell the whole story.

And of course LEGO can't please everyone. But an adult line with various themes would be awesome. Of course I don't believe my opinion is neither right or wrong. Just my opinion on the matter.

[Ardelon]

I have to agree with the OP about the lack of buildings in City sets. Of course, Creator and the Modulars make up for it, but that means City isnt really City, but more like a "Police & Fire) theme. Thats not necessarily a complaint, though, since even these lines show a promise of getting better, with crooks hideouts and buildings on fire. The new construction set might give us more, the demolition set might include a building to actually demolish. Hopefully the golden era of City set diversity of the 80s and early 90s is returning.

I personally could only work with the Creator houses, as the Modulars are too big for the "LEGO City" scale, which I adopted. So that cuts down on the avaiable sets right there. And while its a self-imposed constraint, I stand by the claim that the Modulars are not a substitute for "LEGO City" sets exactly because of the difference in scale and aesthetic. Not to mention the price, but I might be able to justify that as a parts investment. In the end, I end up building most of my houses/buildings, for better or worse.

[Thetford]

When I look back in retrospect, most of the sets my parents bought me as a child (which makes up the bulk of my collection) were all the typically male action orientated sets that you guys seem to despise (the police range - my first set was the Command Post Central, racing, trains, Rock Raiders, X-treme, Res Q etc), it was only when I started buying my own sets, or when they asked me to pick out sets, was when I got more civilian sets (coastguard, bank, main street, restaurant, more trains, Studio, etc), it didn't even dawn on them when I colonised a third of the living room floor space in to some sort of suburban community. I wonder how much my parents' shopping habits are similar to that of other parents.

[AirborneAFOL]

Interesting point, Thetford.

Makes me wonder how many "repeat" police sets kids end up getting. I imagine quite a few 6-yr olds get a "police station" - but 2 years later the instructions are lost and it's been disbanded into a "box of bricks", so a "police station" once again appears atop their Christmas list.

[Thetford]

Interesting point, Thetford.

Makes me wonder how many "repeat" police sets kids end up getting. I imagine quite a few 6-yr olds get a "police station" - but 2 years later the instructions are lost and it's been disbanded into a "box of bricks", so a "police station" once again appears atop their Christmas list.

I have been working under the theory that the reason why police stations are always repeated every couple of years is so that there is always a police station on the shelves, so that one is always available to parents to buy for their child as a first Lego set, as they tend to have features that may be deemed exciting for their child: vehicles, accessories, a healthy number of minifigures, including female minifigures, a built in scenario (cops v robbers, and pretty much every one has a prison escape route built in), not to mention they tend to be larger in comparison to other sets.