Are Star Wars MOC Builders becoming a dying breed?

[Anio]

Also my standards are far higher than my ability; i.e. I know what I want my builds it to look like, but I find it impossible to acheive it. I've spent several years debating building a large Cloud City, but it's driven me nuts each time I tried!!

So you are perseverant. That is an important asset in order to design good MOCs.

A good methodology and a high level of exigency with yourself are also important.

For the first, analyse how official sets are built instead of "just building" them. As for the exigency with yourself, I guess it is difficult to help someone for that. You have it, or you don't.

I bricklink all my MOCs too. Many people do so.

@ Cavegod : pretty difficult to make curves with plates... :/ I generally avoid to turn into UCS a model that won't fit the Lego system well.

As for the Star Wars universe, there are TONS of things that can still be made. Star Wars is not only ships. There are a lot of places to reproduce.

Even if it is only ship, there are many scales possible.

Edited April 4, 2013 by Anio

[Saint]

I've been doing the SW -figs collecting a few years now , and since a couple of years started MOC-ing my own models. I haven't got the best of camera's , but a friend of mine, wants to help out with taking pictures, what takes a lot of logistic sadly. I'm in the proces of building a larger base ( diorama ) for my CTT , now with 3 LAAT-I and 1 LAAT-C , witch arn't on my brickshelf yet, again the lack of time and logistic involved are difficult.

I attended the Brickmania fests a couple of times and I see the enthousiasmem for Star Wars by kids and adults alike, so I keep building !

I have too many projects in my head, little time and fewer bricks to do all of it . If I have a new MOC I post it here on EB, not being affraid of some critisism ( if it is not pissing vinigar or nitpicking ) I try to do something with positive advise .

There is a whole universe in the SW universe ( ) and LEGO cannot possible make everything, so my advise is just to keep building !!

Grtz Saint

[Brickdoctor]

So you are perseverant. That is an important asset in order to design good MOCs.

A good methodology and a high level of exigency with yourself are also important.

For the first, analyse how official sets are built instead of "just building" them. As for the exigency with yourself, I guess it is difficult to help someone for that. You have it, or you don't.

Agreed. Where MOCs are concerned, quality is always better than quantity. But I guess the problem with that is because builders who know what they are doing/what they want to do/what they can do take a long time perfecting a creation, which leads other members to believe that there isn't actually any building being done.

And on that note, and in response to cavegod, perhaps some more WIP threads are what we need. I know I'm guilty of doing this, too: wanting to surprise and/or awe everyone by suddenly unveiling the perfect creation. But if you're stuck or if you're doing something big, there are plenty of examples in this forum of the discussing and interest generated by a WIP thread for a big project. (like the big motorized Turbotank that's almost been completed) Something to consider; maybe that will generate more interest in MOCing.

[Erdbeereis]

Good point with better/larger MOCs taking a longer period of time to complete. I have experienced this myself; I have been working on a train station for about a year now, and sometimes it is just difficult to get yourself to finish. In a way, I agree that making a WIP topic wouldn't be a bad idea sometimes, as long as members try their best to see the projects through to the end. This is a good discussion.

[Werlu Ulcur]

I'm NOT saying this is wrong, but as a couple of people posted before, SW Lego collecting (at least around these parts) seems to be extremely minifig-oriented. I have the firm impression that the majority here don't care much about the set in general, only about the minifigs.

Ergo, if the minifigs are the most important aspect of Lego SW hobby, it's no wonder that you don't see many SW MOCs.

[Brickdoctor]

I'm NOT saying this is wrong, but as a couple of people posted before, SW Lego collecting (at least around these parts) seems to be extremely minifig-oriented. I have the firm impression that the majority here don't care much about the set in general, only about the minifigs.

Ergo, if the minifigs are the most important aspect of Lego SW hobby, it's no wonder that you don't see many SW MOCs.

Well, it depends. Because for me, as an MOCer, Star Wars sets are in large part about the minifigs, because I can get all the pieces by themselves and build whatever I want. So I really don't care how accurate or good-looking the set itself is when I buy it; I'm looking at the minifigs and the value in pieces I'm getting for my money.

[mechamike]

Clanure put words on my thoughts Well done! Also most of the talk I hear is about the minfigs, its almost never about the set itself.." WOW finally a new Jabbas Palace , look at those minfigs"

It also annoys me when someone builds a SW moc and people bash it for not beeing exacly as in the movies..things like that perhaps puts a lid on the joy of build aswell.. Things in the movies are not even correct in the movies.. take the AT-AT, it varies in size alot from shot to shot..

To avoid beeing bashed for not mocing as seen in the movies/games , I decided not to build Mos Eisley in my Tattoine diorama but another place only mentioned and never seen. I just pray that there are no picture in any CW flick of the place..

Btw.. I forgot.. there is som SW MOCing going on over at Swebrick were I belong , We are building a SW community build, a modulebased TIE fighter hangar, 15 people has signed up for building at least one module of 32x64 studs, Will be finished this autumn and displayed.. perhaps this will will spark some more SW moc'ing at least in Sweden, we also plan to share the instructions so more can build a module

[HJR-Holland]

I must say that reading the feedback everyone is giving I see two common denominators:

- The means to build something (MOC building is an expensive hobby for most)

- LEGO releases so many sets that it is not ‘worth the trouble’ to make MOCs

I must confess that the latter is something I encountered as well, and withheld me from building MOCs for a while:

- I spent a small fortune on parts for a Solar Sailor, and the minute I was finished, LEGO launched theirs.

- Then I built a Republic Fighter Tank, and guess what happened? Indeed, LEGO launched theirs.

- Then I decided to skip movie- and videogames vehicles altogether and focus on EU instead. What did I do? Pen out a TIE-Mauler and buying hundreds of track pieces, and what did LEGO do? Of course, they launched a TIE-Mauler as well… AArrgghh!!!

These days it seems nothing is safe to build anymore, with LEGO now even releasing an E-wing!

OK, it’s not set in the right time period (an E-wing during the clone Wars??) and is in a wrong colour scheme, but having built an E-wing myself couple of years ago I can’t help but thinking that if I hadn’t, I probably wouldn’t have bother building one right now as LEGO already released one…

On another note, It seems LEGO themselves are also not bothered in encouraging creativity with the Star Wars sets these days: instead of showing alternative models at the back side of Star Wars sets, what they do is show other sets you can buy as well to make your ‘collection’ complete. It’s something you won’t see on the packaging of other LEGO sets…

Rather odd really, that a company that in the basis tries to inspire kids to build whatever they can imagine, is killing that exact same principle by releasing an on-going stream of wanted and unwanted sets, pushing away people’s need to sit and create something themselves…

[deckard9]

And on that note, and in response to cavegod, perhaps some more WIP threads are what we need. I know I'm guilty of doing this, too: wanting to surprise and/or awe everyone by suddenly unveiling the perfect creation. But if you're stuck or if you're doing something big, there are plenty of examples in this forum of the discussing and interest generated by a WIP thread for a big project. (like the big motorized Turbotank that's almost been completed) Something to consider; maybe that will generate more interest in MOCing.

The problem with the WiP is thou, that the response is somewhat limited. I am working on the CTT, and I am running in a couple of problems while doing it. I started the thread hopeing, that there would be some exchange of ideas, like: "try this it might work better", but there is noresponse like that - just one in this case. Even if I ask questiosn about problems...

[kibosh]

I'm NOT saying this is wrong, but as a couple of people posted before, SW Lego collecting (at least around these parts) seems to be extremely minifig-oriented. I have the firm impression that the majority here don't care much about the set in general, only about the minifigs.

Ergo, if the minifigs are the most important aspect of Lego SW hobby, it's no wonder that you don't see many SW MOCs.

I think this is true. To a degree. But it's largely an influence of Star Wars collectors in general. I used to be one of them that had to have every single variant of every single action figure. I don't think it's the case for LEGO fans who happen to collect Star Wars. The good news for LEGO fans is you can usually sell the minfigs to SW collectors for a hefty profit. They don't want the bricks.

BTW, I still have hundreds of unopened SW action figures if anyone is interested...

I must say that reading the feedback everyone is giving I see two common denominators:

- The means to build something (MOC building is an expensive hobby for most)

- LEGO releases so many sets that it is not ‘worth the trouble’ to make MOCs

I must confess that the latter is something I encountered as well, and withheld me from building MOCs for a while:

On another note, It seems LEGO themselves are also not bothered in encouraging creativity with the Star Wars sets these days: instead of showing alternative models at the back side of Star Wars sets, what they do is show other sets you can buy as well to make your ‘collection’ complete. It’s something you won’t see on the packaging of other LEGO sets…

Rather odd really, that a company that in the basis tries to inspire kids to build whatever they can imagine, is killing that exact same principle by releasing an on-going stream of wanted and unwanted sets, pushing away people’s need to sit and create something themselves…

For the reasons already mentioned, I generally don't MOC Star Wars models. I MOD them. I take the X-Wing, and make it slightly better. My next project is taking Jabba's Palace, and really expanding it properly and fill it with the proper minifigures. It will also be my first attempt at adding LED lighting.

And I will start a WIP thread if people are interested.

As for the lack of alternate model pictures on the box, that is not exclusive to Star Wars. LEGO has dropped that on every line except Creator. And that happened a while ago, sadly. I used to LOVE that aspect of LEGO. The active encouragement of imagination. For the family that is new to LEGO, and might not know what it is or what it can be, they might think what you see is what you get. I really think LEGO should show that you can do more with the bricks on the box.

[Walter Kovacs]

I have a few different ideas as to what is happening. I also think it's a healthy dose of all of them that is creating the shortage.

1. As has been said before, unless you build it with at least a few thousand pieces, create something very accurate and in scale, or come up with some amazing new technique, you aren't going to get noticed. Why do people show off their stuff? To get noticed. Let's be honest, that's what it's about. You want kudos from people who share an interest in the things you are interested in. If you aren't interested in getting noticed, you MOC, but you don't post. It's about that easy.

2. The first reactions a new builder gets to their MOCs shapes, imho, their feelings towards the process. If I spend hours and hours on something, post it, and then have that MOC criticized for any of the myriad of things we criticize for, I don't think I would want to post anything else. The creative process has then been stifled for that new builder. I'm not saying comments should be all fluff and no substance, but it seems once you've achieved a level of moderate building skill (which anyone can achieve with just a little effort), you fall into a void of being too good to be noticed for how bad you've done, and too bad to be noticed for how good you've done. That's the problem with mediocrity. Nobody notices you, period.

3. The SW universe and it's fans are a peculiar and particular bunch. The vast majority don't appreciate non-canon subject matter being tied to SW. Even if I build a perfect MOC of perhaps some sort of TIE variant, if it hasn't been seen in the movies, shows, books, etc. then it really is nothing more than another sci-fi vehicle. Regardless of how much I stick to the aesthetic of the canon TIE ships. Going back to #1 and #2, if it isn't going to be well received and I'm not going to get some notoriety for it, why post?

4. As with every hobby (and really just about everything), there are elite members. These folks could stick a chewed up brick on a turd, and they would receive praise because of their past achievements. Right or wrong, it's not my place to say, but it happens. The rest of the community envies and desires that same praise, but it just doesn't happen that way. That also leaves new builders with a bad taste towards the process.

5. There's obviously the time/financial (not to mention talent) constraints that keep most of us from building in the "uber-UCS, more accurate than the 'real' thing, fully functioning repulsor lift" scale that as mentioned before is what gets noticed.

6. I think SW Lego has transcended normal Lego and is now more on par with SW Action Figures. There's a contingent of the fan base now that really has no interest in the Lego aspect of it. How many of you out there cringe to think that my UCS MF has been disassembled and the parts all sorted in with the rest of my Lego collection? That contingent would have no interest in any MOC really.

7. Lastly, there's that contingent of the fan base who doesn't care how cool/well built something is, if it didn't come from TLG, then it isn't acceptable. Just like some fans don't count exclusives because of the limited availability, or count clone bricks etc. So, if it isn't legit in their eyes, they aren't going to comment. No comments means no motivation to post MOCs. No motivation means less and less MOCs on EB.

If this seems like a rant, I don't intend it to be one. These are just the observations I've had as well as my own personal experiences. YMMV.

It might be nice if every posted MOC had significant constructive feedback, but that just isn't reality. It requires a lot more work than most are willing to give to constructively provide feedback on MOCs that are mediocre.

Well said, Clanure. I couldn't agree with you more.

I have some additional observations as well.

I've been away from EB for the better part of two years, for personal reasons. Before my self-imposed exile, I was on a quest to build an UCS version of every TIE variant I could find a source photo for. I posted every model that I built, and with few exceptions, I only garnered 3 or 4 comments per model. And nothing ever seemed constructive. I might get a "this section doesn't look right" comment, but nothing in the way of "and here's how to make it better", which is what I really needed to advance in my art. If I knew how to improve it, It wouldn't look the way it does now.

Also, I am a very fervent MLCad MOCer. Every MOC I do starts in MLCad, and then gets translated into real bricks as I am able to afford buying them. But whenever I post a rendered MOC, the only comment I seem to get is "When are you going to build it in real bricks." (This attitude has changed in the last few years, as LDD has made digital bricking much more accessible.)

Another thing is that MOCing takes time, and sometimes other interests creep into our lives. I got involved in the Mafia games here at EB, and fell in love with them. Right now I am designing MOCs in MLCad for my own mafia game, and that takes a lot of hard work and time, and must be done in secrecy to avoid giving anything away in the game. And this takes away from time I could devote to MOCing SW type things.

[HJR-Holland]

Walter, do you have a link to your work?

[Walter Kovacs]

Walter, do you have a link to your work?

I used to have my Brickshelf link in my sig, I guess I need to get it back in there.

Brickshelf

TIE Models on Brickshelf, since I've got a lot of other crap there as well.

[krispy]

At the risk of sounding repetitive: my n00b-MOCer point of view.

I'm still new to the MOC community, so I can't comment on "how it used to be". For me personally, there are just two major factors limiting my MOC output. Time and money. The other possible reasons mentioned in this thread, I don't identify with (though they could of course matter to others).

(Warning: rant-like content below! You can stop reading if you're only interested in the summary.)

[rant]

You spend ages getting the shapes right and perfecting the greebling. Then you start to sourcing all the bricks you need, which in my experience is as costly as it is time consuming even with great aides like Bricklink. And finally, as I've recently found out with my Assault Gunboat, when you actually build it, all kinds of construction "issues" come to light (like the whole thing collapsing in on itself ). The money thing is a bit self-imposed: I suppose some people don't mind if the creation is purely virtual, even with non-existent brick-color parts, but I actually do like to build everything I design and that will cost me moneyz.

I am not bothered by TLG releasing so many sets all the time. I know most MOC version are better (for my purposes) anyway. Case in point: my next build will be an A-Wing (to complement my B-Wing) which will be build in part with bricks from TLG's new A-Wing. I currently just lack the funds to order all the additional parts I need. Seriously, I need a new camera first so I can show off the MOCs better .

I'm also not bothered by criticism as long as it is constructive. Call me naive, but I'm "showing off" my MOC's primarily to get feedback and make them better. That's why I share my digital files. Usually the response I see isn't exactly overwhelming, but you often just need that one nudge in the right direction (big shout out to user Cornwaille here).

Of course praise is nice, even cooler if people build your design, but the best is if they improve upon it, because ultimately it's about what sits on my starfighter shelve here at home (me sharing isn't as altruistic as it seems ).

[/rant]

Edit: upon reading the thread again, I realized that there's something to say about the supply of models in the SW universe drying up. The Extended Universe offers a lot, but whether it's canon is debatable as I've recently found with my Missile Boat MOC.

PS. Walter: I absolutely LOVE your work on the UCS TIE series

Edited April 5, 2013 by krispy

[Brickdoctor]

I am not bothered by TLG releasing so many sets all the time. I know most MOC version are better (for my purposes) anyway. Case in point: my next build will be an A-Wing (to complement my B-Wing) which will be build in part with bricks from TLG's new A-Wing. I currently just lack the funds to order all the additional parts I need. Seriously, I need a new camera first so I can show off the MOCs better .

I agree, and I'm sure that the majority of the experienced and dedicated MOCers will agree with that, too. We know that we can build whatever we want, so we don't really care if TLG releases something that we're working on, even if we do like to see TLG stepping up their game. I think the problem is that the newer fans are seeing these better quality sets from TLG and assuming or getting the impression that there's little or no need to build MOCs.

[M<0><0<DSWIM]

I agree, and I'm sure that the majority of the experienced and dedicated MOCers will agree with that, too. We know that we can build whatever we want, so we don't really care if TLG releases something that we're working on, even if we do like to see TLG stepping up their game. I think the problem is that the newer fans are seeing these better quality sets from TLG and assuming or getting the impression that there's little or no need to build MOCs.

This is where I , again, mention that there are many scales other than minifig. Really, take your minifig collection and build those characters in action figure or 12 inch scale. I honestly think that the problem is that most builders only look at moccing from one scale's point of view. Most of the reason I build in other scales besides minifig is pretty much because everything has been done for the most part. Also, it's a way to stand out from other builders as one commentor said. Give it a try, guys!

[Brickdoctor]

This is where I , again, mention that there are many scales other than minifig. Really, take your minifig collection and build those characters in action figure or 12 inch scale. I honestly think that the problem is that most builders only look at moccing from one scale's point of view. Most of the reason I build in other scales besides minifig is pretty much because everything has been done for the most part. Also, it's a way to stand out from other builders as one commentor said. Give it a try, guys!

Good point. I guess that is where the minifig craze factor comes in. Nowadays even when builders build bigger or smaller, it seems that they're just fixing the accuracy of a minifig-scale model. (But I still don't think builders need to turn to other scales to find models to build; they just need to get past the assumption that TLG's new and improved sets are better than what they could build from scratch.)

Oh, and,

(I hope you don't mind that I used your picture, cavegod. It fit perfectly with the post. I'll remove it if you're not okay with that.)

[Brickplumber]

Well, I too have been collecting Star Wars since 1999 (and Lego for 16+ years now). I really only build big MOCs that are to minifigure scale (2 so far, both around 100,000 piece counts). I have had to start selling off my boxed Star Wars collection to fund my big builds { :( }. I do feel that in order to get noticed it has to be a stand-out build (unless you have had a stand-out build already) and maybe thats why I build big. That in turn does not mean building big accurate MOCs gets you noticed (my second has not got much) but I build because I like it and if praise comes from along with it, then awesome. Also I feel that AC Pin has built sooo many awesome Star wars MOCs that there isn't much left (just kidding, his stuff is stellar). Lego certainly has gotten much better with thier Star Wars sets and the community as a whole has somewhat decreased thier Star Wars MOCs, but I haven't and although the sets are better, many are not accurate to scale and I feel there is a lot of MOCs to build.

[Phoib]

I only recently got out of my dark days, and have been planning a Home One MOC for while now. However, a ship based MOC is most often massive, and therefore expensive, both in time and monies. I think that is a problem with most Star Wars MOCs, they are either based on battles or on ships, and therefore are pretty massive by design.

I think that is holding many people back, and explains why there are more mocs for other themes. It is fun to make a small archery target for the castle theme, but for Star Wars?

[Davor]

Ok...my opinion...

First sw builder mostly buy only sw sets - you get perfect minifigs and small amount of expensive bricks (€/brick ratio) that are usualy useless for real mocing - on top of that you get some kind of halfgood model that looks ok for display ( althou usualy most of official models are unrealistic - too small/ too big) ...

.... So what happens.....you have tons od starwars sets and you spend too much € but in reality you can't build decent 32*32 moc with all that bricks you have...so you keep all you clone battlepack "walkers"/ oversized jedi starfighters/undersized stardestroyers/bizzar wampa "caves" on you shelf and confort yourself that you have 1000000000€ worth colection of bricks and minis ...but in reality its 90% useless bricks that just fill the space in you house....

But whan you are not only into sw...lets say you are also in castle...you get far better amount of usefull basic gray bricks, tiles etc...also you have some brown ones..some tiles....some...........and look at the miracle ..you can acctualy build moc that looks good...

This is the problem.

[Anio]

So gathering tons of Star Wars sets would not enable people to do MOCs ?

I doubt it. Seriously.

Edited April 6, 2013 by Anio

[ACPin]

I certainly agree with most of the comments that have been made earlier.

But if you're not MOCing, then you're also part of the problem.

That's why I've restarted the Community Builds to get more members to participate and MOC on a common theme. The object of the CBs is to get all levels of expertise involved within a sufficient timeframe. Participation has always been and will always be the key to a successful CB. There are lots of sign-ups at the start but as we've seen in the previous CBs, we haven't gotten 100% participation in all of them since it started in July 2011. At least we've gotten some interest for new MOCs during the CBs, just imagine what it would be like if we didn't have them at all.

Participate, build, contribute and stop asking the same question if you're not willing to be part of the solution.

AC

[TWP]

I think we can make people more enthioushiastic for sw MOCing by posting a moc on the EB frontpage. You see many great MOCs on there - except sw.

About the thing being good once gives you fame for always - maybe we have to encourage other people's MOCs by all massively posting it's great, so they will post again something else that's even better because they also were given many tips their first build.

@deckard: I do sometimes comment on MOCswith saying it is great (because it is), but suggesting too an improvement because something looks not really good, and how it can

be improved. But sometimes it is the smallest detail and that makes me look too critic (is that a good word).

Sometimes a MOC looks awful, like a three-year-old's build, while I am sure they can do much better.

What also may help ( in line with first paragraph), is that certain builders/mods with autorothy, like ACpin or brickdoctor, post a comment with a improvement (just realised tip is something else in english, sorry for above)

@cavegod: is it a caloffee transport or mon calamari cruiser?

@HJR: a mauroder is not the same as Lego has made, but I guess you already did knew that.

[Brickdoctor]

I think we can make people more enthioushiastic for sw MOCing by posting a moc on the EB frontpage. You see many great MOCs on there - except sw.

In regards to the frontpage, the purpose of EB's frontpage is not to blog MOCs. There are other announcements - contests, new set pictures, reviews, press releases, etc. - which take precedence and which usually have an amount of time during which they are kept at the top of the frontpage and nothing else is frontpaged. MOCs are frontpaged only when there is an excellent MOC and there is no other announcement that needs to be frontpaged and there is no other announcement that is being kept at the top of the frontpage at the time.

That being said, since Regulators don't have frontpaging powers, I don't know how often Erdy or Stash look to frontpage a Star Wars MOC as compared to mods and admins in other EB forums.

[TWP]

In regards to the frontpage, the purpose of EB's frontpage is not to blog MOCs. There are other announcements - contests, new set pictures, reviews, press releases, etc. - which take precedence and which usually have an amount of time during which they are kept at the top of the frontpage and nothing else is frontpaged. MOCs are frontpaged only when there is an excellent MOC and there is no other announcement that needs to be frontpaged and there is no other announcement that is being kept at the top of the frontpage at the time.

That being said, since Regulators don't have frontpaging powers, I don't know how often Erdy or Stash look to frontpage a Star Wars MOC as compared to mods and admins in other EB forums.

Sorry, I didn't knew that. But I can't remember having seen a star wars moc on there since a very long time.

Anyways, what's not more important than an image of an FRIENDS set? :p