RC of lego technic "supercars" sensefull or not?

[Kumbbl]

Hi everyone,

i have posted the following as reply in this thread: http://www.eurobrick...showtopic=80878

But because there this is quite concealed because this has more or less nothing to do with the 8880-MOD-thread-topic i decided to open a new topic:

Wel, here we go:

why everyone want at every time RC in the models?

Thank you efferman, very well spoken! I have a very special opinion to RC-ing of lego supercars: completely unnecessary (no offending of people who build such cars! ;-)

Why: Lego and its motors and transmission parts have never been designed for usage in RC controlled cars. some weeks ago i gave my son an RC controlled BMW X3 and i have to say i is a lot of fun to play with it. But why is this fun: because the cars is fast and has power.. IMHO playing with RC cars is only fun if these cars can drive really fast and have enoughe torque to climb up some hills (fast)

But what about lego cars: If motorized they are ALL very very slow - beyond all bearing! Therefore IMHO the official lego set 9398 is a very boring and bad set... boring build and boring play and no learn effects for kids (except from the fact, that obviously lego is not good for RC-ing cars ;-)

Motorizing (and RC-ing) of helicopters, space shuttles, excavators, backhoes or other machinery is ok and adds play-value - but for supercars the value is in the realism of the features and in the learning effect how some features of the real world cars work... (therefore IMHO the 8880 is still far beyond of all other supercars - just one example: only the 8880 has a gear shifting which comes in the closeness of a real gear box - all current (8448-based) gearboxes are far away from this, because these gearboxes are more or less like multiplexers like the 8480)

There are many very impressive supercar MOCs out there, but i admit all RC-controlled have never impressed me (reason see above: too slow and weak)... whereas all manual driven with great features or great construction are very impressive...one example: sheepos Landrover would be equaly impressive if not motorized, just the working breakes, sequential shiftbox, clutch etc. are enough to be a great supercar (i really admire these features a lot but not the motorization of it)... but as a RC-model it is still somehow boring, because too slow and weak...sorry, sheepo ;-)

so: let lego do what lego can do and what lego is meant for! And RC-ing of cars belongs not to that (at least not with current motors and transmission parts) - reasons see above.

Just my 2 ct....

What is your opinion?

P.S.

@efferman: I hope it is ok, that i have also copied your quotation?!

[jorgeopesi]

I agree, my RC cars are slows but I don´t build them for performance is just for fun with all possible mechanisms.

[piterx]

I love getting crazy with rc cars dude!

because it's satisfying as hell when you get everything done in the right way and your model is actually working under your eyes :)

for the speed problem...im building a model wich is a nice compromise....this is not gonna be fast as a fuel car of course, but at least it's gonna be funnier than driving a crawler lol

[legomuppet9]

I love getting crazy with rc cars dude!

because it's satisfying as hell when you get everything done in the right way and your model is actually working under your eyes :)

for the speed problem...im building a model wich is a nice compromise....this is not gonna be fast as a fuel car of course, but at least it's gonna be funnier than driving a crawler lol

What he said, and I actually have a similar project in my line up too

[Pvdb]

I partially agree and that is why my recent Koenigsegg has no batteries in it, but some of the remote controlled power funtions supercars are impressive in their own right whether or not they drive well, Sheepo's Bugatti for example. And there are a few cars made with the true 'radio control' buggy motors that do run well, the Tumbler and the Zonda by Sariel for example. http://sariel.pl/2012/09/pagani-zonda/ .

[Kumbbl]

I partially agree and that is why my recent Koenigsegg has no batteries in it, but some of the remote controlled power funtions supercars are impressive in their own right whether or not they drive well, Sheepo's Bugatti for example. And there are a few cars made with the true 'radio control' buggy motors that do run well, the Tumbler and the Zonda by Sariel for example. http://sariel.pl/2012/09/pagani-zonda/ .

i partially agree too

The racebuggy motor is really powerfull - i forgot... and the Pagini Zonda is a very well done RC-car - but IMHO it is not a so called supercar because it has no transmission gearbox - a RC-car with buggymotor can be fast, you are right but buggymotor with full power and e.g. 4-speed gearbox doesn't work - current transmission parts can not handle the needed torque... ==> therefore partially agreement: racebuggy-cars can be fun but this has nothing to do with these typical RC-supercars out there...these are all slow and weak - per principle...

because it's satisfying as hell when you get everything done in the right way and your model is actually working under your eyes

yes, agree, i can comprehend this... but under the pure functional view this motorization is unsatisfying because it doesn't work as it should work for a playable RC-supercar...at least IMHO...

Another problem: current motors of lego are way too big related to the car-environment in which they should work - especially for some car functions like shifting gears, moving seats (the motor is bigger than the seat it should move - not really realistic ;-) etc... but i admit: this problem has lower priority and can often worked around...

Edited March 27, 2013 by Kumbbl

[piterx]

what do you mean with "buggymotor can't work with gearbox" ?

[Kumbbl]

what do you mean with "buggymotor can't work with gearbox" ?

you can not reliable put the rpm-power of the racebuggy motor through a multispeed transmission-gearbox so the "horse power" can not be brought to the street... at least not without the danger breaking up gears and axles and some other stuff...

Please show me one working showcase of a really fast driving RC supercar full featured with multispeed gearbox, steering and independent suspension (i mention these features because all these features causes a certain weight of such a car which prevents also from being driven fast by motor)... so my conclusion remains: current lego parts are not designed and meant for really fast and therefore satisfying RC-supercars... and these principle and fundamental limitations can not be eliminated by workarounds...

[Sariel]

But what about lego cars: If motorized they are ALL very very slow - beyond all bearing!

No, they are not. And I already have a car that will be even faster.

Also, with the L motors available, I think we have a chance for supercars that are both functional and reasonably fast. I, at least, will try may hand at this.

The bottom line, sir, is simple - let people try and see for themselves what Lego is fit for. You don't have to motorize your cars if you don't like it, but don't limit the others.

current lego parts are not designed and meant for really fast and therefore satisfying RC-supercars... and these principle and fundamental limitations can not be eliminated by workarounds...

I'm pretty sure a couple of years ago people said the same about Trial Trucks.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Sariel

[jorgeopesi]

This is the maximum speed that I got with my R8 and one RC motor , it was a huge car...

[piterx]

My Lancia Fulvia will have 2 L motors and 4 gears and this is gonna be enough fast to require a handbrake to have fun in corners :)

[AKM_76]

I'm so very much agree with the first post, motorizing and RC controlling everything, was thinking about it also. But I never played with RC car personally, Lego or other manufacturer and I'd like to try it with Lego. Speed and climbing walls does not seem a strong argument for me, I really believe that 'slow' can be very cool if it designed nice, more then, when I see all that RC cars running that unrealistically crazy fast it looks quite annoying. Just some of my thoughts.

Edited March 27, 2013 by AKM_76

[Kumbbl]

The bottom line, sir, is simple - let people try and see for themselves what Lego is fit for. You don't have to motorize your cars if you don't like it, but don't limit the others.

hey, hey, throttle down, keep calm...why do you think, i'm limiting others? Nothing could be further from my intentions... everybody can do what he/she want to do... but to express my opinion is allowed, isn't it, Sir? even if it is another opinion as yours....

[Sariel]

Of course it is and I'm not denying anybody their own opinions. You expressed yours, I presented a different view, that's it. Sorry if it sounded like throttling up.

[Kumbbl]

no problem - different opinions are absolutely fine... i especially asked for your opinions in my initial posting...and i must say, most of the replies i can comprehend - interesting views...

What exactly is the difference between the M- and the L-Motor concerning size, rpm, torque?

[piterx]

Lol sariel you always seem angry at anyone xD

[Alasdair Ryan]

Just to add fuel to the fire,I find lego car moc's/sets boring,because of the fact that many builders just stick a gearbox on 4 wheels and then build a body around it.

I do like Sheepos Landrover because it has lots of feature not normally found on most car mocs.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Alasdair Ryan

[Paul Boratko]

Nothing wrong with motorizing a car if you can pull it off and are happy with the performance like Sariel has shown...

I was working on a prototype chassis where you can easily pop out the gearbox and replace it with a motor, and then pop out the rear H.O.G. and replace it with a servo motor... My only problem was finding room for the battery box... I always thought this kind of simple concept would be cool where as you could have it either way, but I just don't think I could keep the performance once I tried to add a simple body onto it using the PF motors... The most common questions that I get asked are "Does it run?" and "Why don't you build something that uses motors?"

Radio Controlled is the way to go if you want a fast easily controlled supercar as Sariel has shown... I am not a huge fan of the infrared technology for driving fast vehicles... It is good for slower moving things and operating functions, but unlike radio controlled, you have to point the remote at the sensor on the vehicle and follow it around...

Edited March 27, 2013 by Paul Boratko

[Kumbbl]

Of course it is and I'm not denying anybody their own opinions. You expressed yours, I presented a different view, that's it. Sorry if it sounded like throttling up.

by the way - just visited your website and found this astonishing "thing": http://sariel.pl/2012/12/tumbler/#more-2456

It is IMHO not the counterevidence of my point of view because it isn't a typical supercar with multispeed transmission but it is nevertheless one of the best MOCs i have ever seen: and it is a RC "car" playing with seems to very funny...

So i will state my initial proposition more precisely: IC and motorized typical supercars are IMHO nothing which is well supported by current lego parts but transmissionless RC-motor-based (racebuggy motor) "car-objects" can be indeed very funny and well done with lego

[Sariel]

Lol sariel you always seem angry at anyone xD

I don't know where this impression comes from. Maybe I shouldn't comment at EB at all.

What exactly is the difference between the M- and the L-Motor concerning size, rpm, torque?

Huge: http://www.philohome...s/motorcomp.htm

Edited March 27, 2013 by Sariel

[Kumbbl]

Maybe I shouldn't comment at EB at all.

please do furthermore, because your comments are always valuable and offer often interesting viewpoints...

[jorgeopesi]

I think I have something more to say but not about Sariel this time sorry, just kidding . I often misunderstand me and I hope this isn´t one of them ... be my weird sense of humor or the bad google english... Really all MOCs I build are motorized but not because I want to play, maybe is a bizarre search for work in little space and go to check that what I do works, in fact I got tired of large scales cars because I had lot of empty space and prefer the intermediate scales for the "no room experience", does anyone else the same problem? , not the humor problem .

[piterx]

I don't know where this impression comes from. Maybe I shouldn't comment at EB at all. Something that mr Ryan could consider sometimes, too.

Huge: http://www.philohome.com/motors/motorcomp.htm

duuude take it easy! Im only joking, thats exactly what i mean... You usually seem a bit sharp with everyone, theres no need to say "i can consider not posting" have a laugh sometimes when someone wants to joke with you :-)

[Sariel]

But that's the problem - our perception clearly varies a lot. I'm making relaxed observations, and you're like "calm down" and "take it easy". And I'm already trying to comment as rarely as possible.

[piterx]

Lol i dont know then :D btw who cares! Talkin on forums can easily turn sarcasm in rudeness and viceversa :)