Hero Factory 2011

[Arigomi]

 

Good old Bionicle, a theme that got and is still extremely bashed for "being incompatible with true LEGO". Meet Hero Factory II, which will be bashed for being incompatible with true LEGO from now on.

The funny thing is that more and more System sets have been incorporating ball & socket joints for articulation. The most recent examples are 7325 Cursed Cobra Statue and and 5764 Rescue Robot.   

[cylex7]

Anyone have any scans of the parts list in the backs of the instruction booklets? I'm looking for the arm pieces for Furno 2.0 so I can give Corroder some arm articulation. Thanks!

[LuxorV]

Anyone have any scans of the parts list in the backs of the instruction booklets? I'm looking for the arm pieces for Furno 2.0 so I can give Corroder some arm articulation. Thanks!

Most of the reviews (if not all) include a picture of the parts list. Check them out

[_shaddow_]

So now it's wrong to want something new instead of building the old stuff over and over again? Right, sorry. How dare I even suggest it.

Well, we do have something new, it just doesn't seem to please you. Bionicle is over, it's hard but we must get over it. This isn't bionicle, and TLG already said it would be different.

[dviddy]

I hate taking my sets apart. That's not what they were made for.

Right, LEGO sets are definitely not made to be assembled and disassembled and then played with and built into other things. No sir! That's not what LEGO stands for at all!

[Refia]

Right, LEGO sets are definitely not made to be assembled and disassembled and then played with and built into other things. No sir! That's not what LEGO stands for at all!

Do with your sets what you want, but don't tell me how I should treat mine, okay? Better leave them like they are then take them apart to become one of the many complaining about snapped joints. I don't like taking sets apart, that's not what I bought them for. They're decoration for my room, and the building a fun passtime, the first time around.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Refia

[Once In A Lifetime]

Wow, how I simply despise the new 2.0 good characters, how different they are from Bionicle, or even the first wave of Hero Factory. Although, I may want to get Jetbug...

[Ratbat]

My one problem with Fire Lord is the fact that there is no armor on his upper legs. Other than that, I think he looks great. I just wish he got his own weapon instead of Furno's blades.

I can't wait for these to pop up in my area. I'm eager to see what I can make out of the limbs by themselves.

[Zarkan]

I hope/wish it was a new rule not to ever have sets with unique parts in HF. It was one of the downfalls in Bionicle. To rely on making new molds instead of caring on other things.

I'm sorry, I'm normally fine with different points of view, but I can't let this slide. To say that Bionicle would have been better off without unique Kanohi, weapons, and armor pieces is absolutely ridiculous. One of the biggest complaints about bionicle sets has always been that they are all too similar to each other, and those unique molds are the main things that kept them from being 100% clones of each other. Do you honestly think that Lewa, Pohatu, and Onua would have been improved if they looked exactly like Tahu bar colors? Are you actually suggesting that the Bara manga sets would have been better off without the unique elemental-flavored armor and weapons? I honestly can't fathom why you'd hold such a belief.

Edited December 3, 2010 by Zarkan

[Darkness Falls]

I'm sorry, I'm normally fine with different points of view, but I can't let this slide. To say that Bionicle would have been better off without unique Kanohi, weapons, and armor pieces is absolutely ridiculous. One of the biggest complaints about bionicle sets has always been that they are all too similar to each other, and those unique molds are the main things that kept them from being 100% clones of each other. Do you honestly think that Lewa, Pohatu, and Onua would have been improved if they looked exactly like Tahu bar colors? Are you actually suggesting that the Bara manga sets would have been better off without the unique elemental-flavored armor and weapons? I honestly can't fathom why you'd hold such a belief.

Well, I think the theme of Hero Facotry being this "build your own hero" and them being strict robots means they should have a much more unified theme. Heads, limbs, etc should be similar and hopefully modular with all vehicle sets, because these ARE mass-produced robots that fight crime- they need to make use of the materials they have rather than spend time crafting individual weapons. The only problem I currently have with Hero factory is that it is so limited currently- there's no room for epic, large beasts in this universe unless the Heroes are sent to a dinosaur planet. That's upsetting.

[vexorian]

I'm sorry, I'm normally fine with different points of view, but I can't let this slide. To say that Bionicle would have been better off without unique Kanohi, weapons, and armor pieces is absolutely ridiculous. One of the biggest complaints about bionicle sets has always been that they are all too similar to each other, and those unique molds are the main things that kept them from being 100% clones of each other.

That's my point . The unique molds were too many times in Bionicle used as an excuse to have waves of clones.

Do you honestly think that Lewa, Pohatu, and Onua would have been improved if they looked exactly like Tahu bar colors?

I think that by using things like the double sided masks, or by modifying the configuration of the mask, they could have had different builds and looks without over relying on different molds. No slizer had a mold unique to them and each managed to be unique in his way anyway.

In many ways it promotes creativity when MoCing. Don't just use a mask, customize it to look like something unique.

Are you actually suggesting that the Bara manga sets would have been better off without the unique elemental-flavored armor and weapons?

I would have loved them to be able to acquire water/jungle/fire/stone looks without having to resort to making up unique molds to do it. That's right.

Somehow system sets have managed to be different from each other without making an exclusive mold for each.

I am not saying that all sets should all use the same pieces. I am just sharing that no piece should be made specifically for a set. A LEGO piece should be versatile enough to work in at least two different sets no matter the element. And that's something great that is being accomplished with the villains IMHO.

Edited December 4, 2010 by vexorian

[CabooseBM]

Do with your sets what you want, but don't tell me how I should treat mine, okay? Better leave them like they are then take them apart to become one of the many complaining about snapped joints. I don't like taking sets apart, that's not what I bought them for. They're decoration for my room, and the building a fun passtime, the first time around.

What you bought them for =/= what they were made for.

LEGO Bionicle is LEGO. It is made for building. This reason is why the new Heroes are awesome.

[Brickthing]

What you bought them for =/= what they were made for.

LEGO Bionicle is LEGO. It is made for building. This reason is why the new Heroes are awesome.

It seems these Heroes weren't made for the same reason that he buys sets for, which would be why he doesn't find them awesome like you do. We should probably drop this circular arguing now before it deteriorates. Each to his own.

[SpiderSpaceman]

I am not saying that all sets should all use the same pieces. I am just sharing that no piece should be made specifically for a set. A LEGO piece should be versatile enough to work in at least two different sets no matter the element. And that's something great that is being accomplished with the villains IMHO.

On this note, booooo giant buzz lightyear head, booooo.

[Refia]

What you bought them for =/= what they were made for.

LEGO Bionicle is LEGO. It is made for building. This reason is why the new Heroes are awesome.

Correct. That is why there's an instruction booklet delivered with them, and why the sets have a set-design. The parts you buy are for building the figure, first of all. If LEGO wanted own creations to be more important, why bother with set-design? Just group together random parts and put them on the shelves. Saves set-design, instruction-booklet printing and the like, which would make the sets cheaper, too. But as it is, these sets exist to build the figure first and foremost. That's how I saw it since the day I began buying LEGO.

Edited December 4, 2010 by Refia

[vexorian]

On this note, booooo giant buzz lightyear head, booooo.

As a matter of fact, yes. That thing was awful.

But you mentioned a single set out of thousands. Plus Buzz' head was not used as an excuse to have the same exact set as Zurg but only with different colors and head. Bionicle on the other hand has been so guilty of that.

I don't mind a unique mold every once in a while. But making that the only appeal of a whole theme. That each set has a unique piece and not a unique build was something I never liked about Bionicle.

Edited December 4, 2010 by vexorian

[CabooseBM]

As a matter of fact, yes. That thing was awful.

But you mentioned a single set out of thousands. Plus Buzz' head was not used as an excuse to have the same exact set as Zurg but only with different colors and head. Bionicle on the other hand has been so guilty of that.

I don't mind a unique mold every once in a while. But making that the only appeal of a whole theme. That each set has a unique piece and not a unique build was something I never liked about Bionicle.

I can agree with that, actually. I'd be happy to trade unique pieces for a unique build.

Stature and stance can matter just as much as a unique face.

[Aanchir]

I'm in between the two points-of-view that seem to be presented here. I tend to leave my sets together most of the time. I will occasionally use parts from sets I have together, but usually I do one of two things. I may take apart one or more entire sets, but build exclusively with their pieces (not with the rest of my collection). On the other hand, I may build primarily with my collection and selectively remove parts from sets only when they seem appropriate for the task I have in mind.

This might be a consequence of my raising-- during my childhood, my parents would berate me for taking sets apart almost immediately after I had first put them together. In retrospect, the primary reason for this criticism was probably the fact that once apart, the sets' pieces would be dispersed throughout the house, contributing to its perpetual state of untidiness. It was also probably a consequence of one time in my childhood when my parents went through a bunch of sets we had and bagged each set's parts separately so we could rebuild them. This was to save storage space, not necessarily because my parents had any preference for whether the sets were together or apart, but in any event the conclusions I drew from these attitudes are clear enough.

I used to collect BIONICLE sets primarily to appreciate them when built. I was not too selective in which sets I got-- in fact, my two siblings and I had a formulaic system deciding which of us got which sets (on the basis of color). We did use personal opinions to decide which of us would get which large sets, but this was based on our preferences for the sets themselves and not on the merits of the pieces. Overall, for the most part we ended up with a complete collection of BIONICLE sets besides a few exceptions-- the Tarakava and Lesovikk sets, both of which we missed out on (My twin brother later ended up getting the Lesovikk figure, separate and pre-built, at a Brickfair convention).

Today, these attitudes I held towards buying sets embarrass me (especially since I can now appreciate the dreadful impact they must have had on my parents' wallet). But vestiges of these attitudes are still a part of who I am, and I appreciate set design and part design as much today as I did then. However, I now am a little bit more selective about which sets I buy (particularly since, being at college, I don't want my room to become cluttered with too many sets or sets of incompatible themes).

-----

Enough reminiscing, back on topic: LEGO is a toy that appeals to diverse tastes. There is no one way the sets are designed to be played with-- their versatility is part of what makes them LEGO. Hero Factory 2011 represents a bit of a shift towards MOCing potential by making the pieces more versatile and less specific to particular characters. But this comes at a cost which some people regret-- the loss of individuality.

In my opinion, what we're seeing is a "re-balancing" of the sets' values. In Hero Factory 2010 there was a profound shift away from the versatility of design that had characterized many aspects of BIONICLE. The canister sets, while they had unique pieces, were what BIONICLE fans tend to call "clone sets"-- sets with an identical arrangement of mostly-identical pieces. It should be pointed out that the way most people use it, "clone set" does not denote an identical appearance, but rather an identical structure and arrangement. This was true of the 2010 heroes: the structure was identical, and the parts that made the sets different were the exact same sort of parts attached pretty much the exact same way.

Hero Factory 2011 sets are a step away from that, even if the underlying structure is roughly the same among all the heroes. Armor is attached in different positions and at different angles between the sets. Weapons, rather than having a "budget" of one exclusive weapon mold to each set, are made from varying unique-looking arrangements of pieces. Only the heads, torsos, and skeletons are still "cloned". LEGO doesn't mean to abandon the fans who preferred the sets as action figures, but instead they're trying to make up for slighting the fans who preferred the building aspect of the sets.

Perhaps they haven't achieved that correct balance quite yet. I'm confident, though, that they're working on it, and that the personality of the sets is still an important value in set design.

...I need to ramble less.

[Zarkan]

I think that by using things like the double sided masks, or by modifying the configuration of the mask, they could have had different builds and looks without over relying on different molds. No slizer had a mold unique to them and each managed to be unique in his way anyway.

Right... because that worked out so well for the 2011 villians:

Also, I would personally not use Slizers as an example of how Bionicle should have been. There's a reason why the former line was discontinued so quickly, you know.

[vexorian]

Subjective, that example looks much better to me than many bionicle waves at least.

Slizers lasted three waves, and that's a relative success considering how it was TLG's first try in regards to action figures and the build system was so immature. When you compare with the more recent roboriders or the Barah magna waves... 3 waves is not bad at all in my opinion.

Bionicle lasted many waves but I don't think it is really for the merit of the sets but because somehow TLG wanted a long history based stuff. No theme should last so much time no matter how good. There are differences in certain points of time, that you wonder if 2004-2005 and 2006-2009 could have been called different themes if it wasn't for the story... And I sometimes wonder if Bionicle should have really lasted that long. It certainly did not have a positive effect on the community with a large part of it getting zealously locked into Bionicle and not wanting to move on later. That's one of the reasons I think/hope HF will last only 3-4 waves or it may even end in the 2nd.

Edited December 4, 2010 by vexorian

[Aanchir]

Subjective, that example looks much better to me than many bionicle waves at least.

Slizers lasted three waves, and that's a relative success considering how it was TLG's first try in regards to action figures and the build system was so immature. When you compare with the more recent roboriders or the Barah magna waves... 3 waves is not bad at all in my opinion.

Bionicle lasted many waves but I don't think it is really for the merit of the sets but because somehow TLG wanted a long history based stuff. No theme should last so much time no matter how good. There are differences in certain points of time, that you wonder if 2004-2005 and 2006-2009 could have been called different themes if it wasn't for the story... And I sometimes wonder if Bionicle should have really lasted that long. It certainly did not have a positive effect on the community with a large part of it getting zealously locked into Bionicle and not wanting to move on later. That's one of the reasons I think/hope HF will last only 3-4 waves or it may even end in the 2nd.

Were there three waves of Slizers? I thought there were only two (the first eight Throwbots, and then the final four). But then again, I'm from the US, where they were called ThrowBots. Perhaps they had a different release pattern here-- it wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. In any event, I agree that it's silly to assume a line with a short lifespan wasn't good or successful-- I already had this discussion in another forum a while back when someone tried to suggest that themes like Agents and Power Miners weren't successful. On the contrary, a theme is successful if it lasts more than a single wave. Whether that success lasts is another matter, and BIONICLE was extremely lucky that people remained attached to the theme for so many years.

I personally like that BIONICLE lasted as long as it did. Certainly a lot of people now refuse to move on past BIONICLE, but then there are certain AFOLs who refuse to move on past the Space themes of the 80s and 90s. When something different, even just a little different, replaces something that people like, there's going to be resistance from at least a few fans. It doesn't matter how long they had to get used to the theme.

[vexorian]

The first 8 throwbots were two waves of four. At least that's how I remember it. I remember that the first time I went to the store, only turbo, ski, torch and scuba were around. Then a year later the remaining slizer appeared. The first 4 slizers, turbo, ski, torch and scuba only had advertising to the four slizers and the combiner in the catalog that was included. Then I think the other four slizers appeared later, they had all 8 slizers in their catalog. Also, of these four slizers (Amazon, jet, electro, granite) only Amazon used the build that was used in the first four. The other three all used different a new 'torso' piece.

When I saw Blaster and Flare's (whom were definitely another wave) included catalog I think the first four slizers were not listed, but my memory is fuzzy about this.

Edited December 4, 2010 by vexorian

[Zarkan]

Subjective, that example looks much better to me than many bionicle waves at least.

What I was referring to was the fact that you can clearly see the faces of the other two heroes when looking at the back of the sets. Please don't tell me you seriously think that is a good thing.

No theme should last so much time no matter how good.

And that is because....why? If a theme is doing really well, why should they cancel it, especially if the company still has ideas left for what they can do with it? The very reason TLC was defamed so much during the infamous "dark ages" was because they discontinued all of their core themes like Classic town and Space in favor of experimental themes that were often of inferior quality. This same principle applies to other kinds of entertainment, particularly TV shows. I've lost count of how many times people have gotten upset when quality programs get canceled prematurely in favor of new ones (see: The Spectacular Spiderman, Firefly, and a whole host of others). There's no reason to hold to such an absolute concept as "nothing should last for longer than a few years, no matter how good it is."

[Rocketbilly]

The first 8 throwbots were two waves of four. At least that's how I remember it. I remember that the first time I went to the store, only turbo, ski, torch and scuba were around. Then a year later the remaining slizer appeared. The first 4 slizers, turbo, ski, torch and scuba only had advertising to the four slizers and the combiner in the catalog that was included. Then I think the other four slizers appeared later, they had all 8 slizers in their catalog. Also, of these four slizers (Amazon, jet, electro, granite) only Amazon used the build that was used in the first four. The other three all used different a new 'torso' piece.

When I saw Blaster and Flare's (whom were definitely another wave) included catalog I think the first four slizers were not listed, but my memory is fuzzy about this.

Yeah, that sounds like something that would happen, but here in england we got all eight at once. I remember very well seeing them all on a cardboard display stand in Tesco.

There were three columns, and with the left column contain four of the sets, and the right column containing the other four, along with the boxes of collectible discs in th e middle column.

The second wave ehre inthe uk consisted of the two canister slizers, Millenium and and I think one other. I was about seven then!

I think Hero Factory, as a theme, will last a long time. Not just because it's the "new BIONICLE" but because Lego have introduced a whole new building style, and I'm sure they wouldn't bother doing that for just one or two waves - that is unless they want to keep the building style consistent and only change the themes of the sets, just making sure they've always got an action figure based theme that utilizes the system. I just hope this new building style is more successful than Znap. Though obviously they're completely different.

Will/Rocketbily

[ZORK64]

About the Slizer waves:

In Germany, the first eight Slizers were released at the same time here.

Sub Slizer, Ice Slizer, City Slizer and Fire Slizer could build into one combiner, Judge Slizer, Jungle Slizer, Rock Slizer and Energy Slizer into another combiner.

The second wave contained the Spark and the Flare Slizer and the two Titan sets, the Millenium Slizer and the Blaster Slizer.

In the story, Judge, Jungle, Rock and Energy were killed when an asteroid crashed the Slizer Planet, and the bad guys from the second wave emerged from that asteroid (that also explains why Blaster Slizer's face is a mix of Judge's and Jungle's face). Because of this, only Sub, Ice, City and Fire (with changed names, if I remember that correct) were listed in the catalog along with the new ones (but it was still easy to get the other four in the stores).

...I need to ramble less.

No, your post are always interesting. You shouldn't short them.