LuxorV Posted June 19, 2009 I just want to be clear on this, where would I post my Halo MOCs? Sci-fi or Other themes? I used to post them in other themes, but now the description does not say 'Other non-theme specific MOCs.'.... I think they should go in Sci-Fi, since they are based on a Sci-Fi videogame , but Siegfried has the power on that area, so it will be his word After a bit of research - if you look at this and this, your prevois Halo creations are now in the Sci-Fi forum. That should be a decisive hint, right? LuxorV Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peppermint_M Posted June 19, 2009 I like the new lists, they make a bit more sense. I like how the discriotions clue you in a bit better as to what goes where (as mentiond elsewhere, I was at a loss to find Agents for a month of membership). I can't wait for the new banners and sub-forums. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Svelte Posted June 19, 2009 The only thing I would adjust, would be to include Adventurers with the History forum. I always think of old Johnny as a history theme, as he's an archaeologist. That was my initial thought too, as it seemed the Western theme didn't seem any more of a 'pure historical' than the Adventurers line. Perhaps part of the resistance is because Adventurers was a long-running theme still regarded very fondly and with an emphasis on beautifully detailed architecture styles which seem more 'Historical' than action-based, whereas Action themes tend to be one- or two- wave wonders with limited fan bases and an emphasis on vehicles. Maybe 'History' only includes themes up to the start of the 20th century? That could justify the split. However it would be a little weird, for example, if something like WW2 MOCs were supposed to be posted in 'History' but an Egyptian temple being explored by Johnny Thunder had to go into 'Action'. I guess the Dino line of Adventurer sets muddied the issue, as they don't fit in a historical context. I don't doubt there was much discussion amongst the staff before this decision was made, so perhaps they could share more of their reasoning. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bonaparte Posted June 19, 2009 I guess the Dino line of Adventurer sets muddied the issue, as they don't fit in a historical context. I don't doubt there was much discussion amongst the staff before this decision was made, so perhaps they could share more of their reasoning. We've placed all historical themes which are actually situated in their corresponding time in the past in "Historic Themes". Following that logic, Wild West belongings in Historic Themes (since it's actually happening during the time of indians and cowboys) and Adventures belongs in Action (it's often about history, but the timeline of the theme is the present). So a theme is in the "Historic forum" when it's situated in it's historical context. That is the current logic. Exception is WW as it was never an official Lego theme, so we left it in "Other Themes". Seeing some of the arguments, I'm discussing with the staff to move Adventurers from "Action Themes" to "Historic Themes" because the fan base in Action Themes (with Agents, Power Miners, etc) is very different from the fan basis of the older Adventurers theme (who's fan basis is more leaning towards the themes now in "Historic Themes"). For the moment, world war (WW) is still in "Other Themes", but if Adventures should go to "Historic Themes", why not move World War to "Action Themes" because there's a thin line between some of the Agent MOC's and some WW MOCs. Thoughts? Anyway, we are listening to the arguments made in this thread and might do some fine-tuning in the near future. To be continued Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
prateek Posted June 19, 2009 I think this is a wise move. The action themes is a brilliant idea, most of those themes never fit in anywhere else. The only thing I would adjust, would be to include Adventurers with the History forum. I always think of old Johnny as a history theme, as he's an archaeologist. i agree. there's no adventure in adventurers Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JimBee Posted June 20, 2009 I also agree that Adventures/ Orient Expedition should be placed in the History forum. It has more history themes to it than action subjects. For the moment, world war (WW) is still in "Other Themes", but if Adventures should go to "Historic Themes", why not move World War to "Action Themes" because there's a thin line between some of the Agent MOC's and some WW MOCs. Thoughts? I want war and apocalyptic MOCs to be kept in Other Themes, but it would make more sense for war MOCs to be in action. On another note, regarding apocalyptic MOCs, I think that they should remain in Other Themes. Considering that this category includes past, present, and future, there is nothing really Sci-Fi about them, depending on the perspective. There could be robots and/ or aliens, but in my mind, the apocalypse is humans with limited technology fighting zombies. Anyway, we are listening to the arguments made in this thread and might do some fine-tuning in the near future. To be continued It's really great to hear that us members can make such a difference. This is what I like to see from the staff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadows Posted June 20, 2009 I have to say I completely disagree with lumping Adventurers into history, and I'll explain why. It's not historical. Visiting sites from the past isn't the same as being part of it. Historical Themes is about the cultures that made up those time periods and nothing else. Knights, Ninjas, Vikings, Cowboys and Natives and Soldiers. It's also potentially about Romans and any other real historic group living their lives in that period, not the present day. Pirates would be there if it wasn't a seperate forum. Johnny Thunder is about modern archaeology that drifts into the bizarre with dinosaurs, but even in it's historical modes is never really about the people from the past, it's about a set group of characters who are fighting each other, with the occasional local getting involved in the fight. Cars, trucks, planes, dynamite. It's the Archaeology equivalent of Agents and a perfect fit in Action. Orient Expedition isn't even historical. It featured buildings that are still being built to this day and some fantasy based creatures. I don't get where anyone is coming from with that one. Taken a step further, a number of Adventurers sets were part of Studios. You know, the same group that brought you Spiderman, Jurassic Park, Frankenstein and Stuntmen doing tricks. Not historical. To be blunt, Adventurers has as much historical purpose as Time Cruisers, but at least it traveled to the past instead of ruins of the past. I doubt anyone wants that in history, and Adventurers doesn't belong either. It would be like putting Indiana Jones in History. Modern action in a historic setting isn't historic, it's action, and we all know that Johnny Thunder was copied from ... modeled after ... inspired by Indy. Basically, no matter where it goes, unless people start posting things, it's going to be buried under the newer, more active themes. In history it was always buried under Castle, in action it'll be under Power Miners and Agents, but with thousands fewer posts, at least it will be easy to find. I don't think we made the intent of historical themes clear enough, thus the confusion, but I hope that makes it more obvious. I know it's perfectly clear for me, but ultimately, we try to listen to the community and do what is best, I just don't see burying Adventurers in a forum it doesn't belong in as a good plan, but if you do... So obviously this is still being discussed and decided. Comments? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Algernon Posted June 20, 2009 Personally I think Power Miners and Rock Raiders belong in Sci-Fi. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Derek Posted June 20, 2009 This all sounds fantastic! I can't even begin to express my gratitude to the staff for making this such a fantastic website and community! If you ever need help, I might be intersted... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tinn-man Posted June 20, 2009 Has anyone guessed Brickfilms for the new forum? That's what I think it is. And that falls under creative activities, right? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Siegfried Posted June 20, 2009 On another note, regarding apocalyptic MOCs, I think that they should remain in Other Themes. Considering that this category includes past, present, and future, there is nothing really Sci-Fi about them, depending on the perspective. There could be robots and/ or aliens, but in my mind, the apocalypse is humans with limited technology fighting zombies. Ahh! You seem to be making the same mistake as someone else I know. Sci-Fi is not about the future, nor are robots, aliens or even space required. (As a reverse point, including aliens doesn't make something Sci-Fi anyway; was ALF or ET Sci-Fi?) It's about exploring the possibilities of science and technology. Thus the time period is irrelevant. Does the fact that Jules Verne stories (or 2001 by Clarke for that matter) are now based in the past mean that they are no longer Sci-Fi? To me, and many others, Post Apoc is more just Steam Punk in the future. Also zombies are not needed for Post Apoc. I don't recall any being in Mad Max... Personally I think Power Miners and Rock Raiders belong in Sci-Fi. Actually so do I, but we needed more themes for the Action forum. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CP5670 Posted June 20, 2009 (edited) I think the "sci fi" heading as it stands is too inclusive, and the forum would become huge if you put in everything that actually belongs in there. I brought up Aquazone in other thread, which is essentially a spinoff of Space, and numerous other themes like Alpha Team, Agents and Power Miners would certainly fit in. For that matter, if you include anything that "explores the possibilities of science and technology," then Technic and Mindstorms would be obvious choices too. Edited June 20, 2009 by CP5670 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Siegfried Posted June 20, 2009 I think the "sci fi" heading as it stands is too inclusive, and the forum would become huge if you put it in everything that actually belongs in there. I brought up Aquazone in other thread, which is essentially a spinoff of Space, and numerous other themes like Alpha Team, Agents and Power Miners would certainly fit in. For that matter, if you include anything that "explores the possibilities of science and technology," then Technic and Mindstorms would be obvious choices too. Not really. One thing Sci-Fi isn't about is "today" and Technic is very today. I do agree the name isn't perfect, but it was the best that I could think of that covers the desired content. (Yes, you can blame me for the name.) The fact was we had an ever growing "Others" section and we wanted to find a better home. This is our solution. Ultimately you can't please everyone. The underground lines were an obvious problem as they have both fantasy and Sci-Fi elements in them. It's much the same with the underwater themes. Thus we decided to make a split there, especially since TLG tend to make the division there themselves. As you say, the forum would be too big if we included everything that could have been, and dividing up the underwater themes would have been confusing, especially with MOCs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Batbrick Posted June 20, 2009 Very neat changes, I'm glad we finally have a subforum for the action themes to go, very neat. I'll add my voice to saying that I reckon Post-Apoc would be better in other themes though. Of course I understand that technically it does fit in with the cocnept of Sci-Fi, but I also think it sticks out like a sore thumb and would be more at home in Other Themes. Batbrick Away! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Algernon Posted June 20, 2009 (edited) Ahh! You seem to be making the same mistake as someone else I know. Sci-Fi is not about the future, nor are robots, aliens or even space required. (As a reverse point, including aliens doesn't make something Sci-Fi anyway; was ALF or ET Sci-Fi?) It's about exploring the possibilities of science and technology. Thus the time period is irrelevant. Does the fact that Jules Verne stories (or 2001 by Clarke for that matter) are now based in the past mean that they are no longer Sci-Fi? To me, and many others, Post Apoc is more just Steam Punk in the future. Also zombies are not needed for Post Apoc. I don't recall any being in Mad Max... Mmmm... I'm not sure about that. There is a very faint line between "action" and "sci-fi". Sci-fi is usually about technology, and this technology is usually used to venture into space, where things like aliens often lurk. The inclusion of aliens really does make something sci-fi, because in the minds of most people, that would be a logical association. It's become a staple of the genre, it really wouldn't make any sense to put it anywhere else. What would you call "Alien VS Predator"? It doesn't involve technology to any real extent- just aliens. Yet it would be called a sci-fi by a vast majority of moviegoers. Regardless of the technical definition, doesn't the definition most of our users are going to use make more sense to adhere to? Edited June 20, 2009 by Algernon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Siegfried Posted June 20, 2009 There is a very faint line between "action" and "sci-fi". As a movie/TV genre definition yes, but that's about it. In terms of Sci-Fi stories they are completely different. Sci-fi is usually about technology, and this technology is usually used to venture into space, where things like aliens often lurk. The inclusion of aliens really does make something sci-fi, because in the minds of most people, that would be a logical association. It's become a staple of the genre, it really wouldn't make any sense to put it anywhere else. I don't agree with that at all... but all the same we've already decided that most alien and space things will go in the Sci-Fi forum. The change is about including, not excluding. What would you call "Alien VS Predator"? It doesn't involve technology to any real extent- just aliens. Yet it would be called a sci-fi by a vast majority of moviegoers. Regardless of the technical definition, doesn't the definition most of our users are going to use make more sense to adhere to? Aside from a rubbish movie, I'd call AVP horror. But I've already said... I personally don't see a lot of TV "Sci-Fi" (or SyFy ) as real Sci-Fi... but many do. In the spirit of free thinking and not impressing my opinions on others, all things that are generally seen as Sci-Fi (such as Star Trek, Battlestar Galactica, Doctor Who, Babylon 5) are welcome here. ...so what's your point? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Lord Admiral Posted June 20, 2009 I say, just have 5 main forums--Town, Pirates, Space, Castle, Others--and stick the MOCs not belonging to existing themes in its own little corn...I mean forum. I kid, I kid. But too-generic names aside, I think a lot of themes past and present fall under multiple categories or form niche categories of their own regardless. Beyond the 4 classic themes (6 if you include trains and boats), there is no perfect way to group the rest of them. They're just whatever TLG thinks makes for an interesting line of toys at any particular time. So I think the mods (or someone) should put their collective feet down, make a final list of which themes will go into which forum, and call it a day. It seems kind of harsh, but people will otherwise be indefinitely arguing about who goes into what. But that's just MHO. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Captain Zuloo Posted June 20, 2009 Has anyone guessed Brickfilms for the new forum? That's what I think it is. And that falls under creative activities, right? We shall cross our fingers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Peppermint_M Posted June 20, 2009 I am afraid I disagree with a few points about Adventurers... I always saw them as somewhere in the 50s or earlier, similar to Indiana Jones, derived from the same adventure serials of that time. I didn't know the characters names (apart from Sam Grant, who for some strange reason everyone persists in calling Johnny Thunder, who is actualy a DC Comics character) The old man was Howard Carter their lady friend was Lara Croft. The Egyptian themed sets were my favourite of all and the adventures occured in a similar space in time as Indy, or slightly pre-WWII. The bad guys spoke with german accents (sorry, that was Indy's influence again) and the mummies were similar to the Scooby Doo guys in rubber masks. (Heck, we called him Shaggy) Therefore I would see it as history. The jungle adventures were in the same period and the Orient ones? Yet again they fit in the 50s or maybe even earlier than that (Colonial) and to have a classic bad guy that looks a whole lot like Ming the Merciless they must have been inspired by those aforementioned saturday morning action cliffhangers at the movie theater (sandwiched between a Loony Toon and the newsreel) and the pulp adventure comics. So while sort of "action-ey" its a lot more like history, set in some romantacised era where the world is still a mystery and dashing square jawed young men uncover untold treasures from desert, jungle and the orient with the plucky news reporter to capture the moment and the learned professor to point the way. Ok, so the dinosaur bit was very left field, but it was a last hurrah for the theme and there wasn't any other mysteriouse lands to explore. It certainly isn't "present day" the cars, the planes, the characters all screamed the mythical 1950s (or earlier). Just my thoughts on the matter. It was my favourite theme back in the day, I'd be sad to see it buried under the flavour of the month. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadows Posted June 20, 2009 It certainly isn't "present day" the cars, the planes, the characters all screamed the mythical 1950s (or earlier). That's perfect, because honestly, anything 20th century or beyond can't be counted as historical or we'd have to include WWII, the moon landing sets, the architecture series, the latest firehouse, the Emerald Express and a lot of other things that don't belong. Heck, Star Wars (I know that's one of your favourites ) was set "A long time ago...", so lets move it to Historical too. Just my thoughts on the matter. It was my favourite theme back in the day, I'd be sad to see it buried under the flavour of the month. Be active in it, build some things and share them, I know we'd love to see it. Right now, it's actually on the first page of Action where it has a chance of being seen. It's dead buried under 200 tons of Castle in Historical. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Svelte Posted June 20, 2009 I have to say I completely disagree with lumping Adventurers into history, and I'll explain why.It's not historical. Visiting sites from the past isn't the same as being part of it. Historical Themes is about the cultures that made up those time periods and nothing else. Knights, Ninjas, Vikings, Cowboys and Natives and Soldiers. It's also potentially about Romans and any other real historic group living their lives in that period, not the present day. Pirates would be there if it wasn't a seperate forum. Johnny Thunder is about modern archaeology that drifts into the bizarre with dinosaurs, but even in it's historical modes is never really about the people from the past, it's about a set group of characters who are fighting each other, with the occasional local getting involved in the fight. Cars, trucks, planes, dynamite. It's the Archaeology equivalent of Agents and a perfect fit in Action. .... To be blunt, Adventurers has as much historical purpose as Time Cruisers, but at least it traveled to the past instead of ruins of the past. I doubt anyone wants that in history, and Adventurers doesn't belong either. An interesting distinction, and I can kind of see why you might draw a line that way, but I don't find it fully convincing. For a start, if the Adventurer sets are based in the 1930s, then aren't the characters living in that era a part of History themselves? Adventurers are certainly not contemporaneous with City/ Town, so the era as a whole becomes a part of the Lego version of historical narrative. Just because in the sets exploring that time Lego chooses to emphasise archaelogy and exploration over other social history of the time shouldn't exclude it from being regarded this way. There was a lot happening in frontier USA other than cowboys, Indians and bandits, for example - but the narrowly focused Western sets focussing on those areas still make your cut. Time Cruisers is different in that it seems to exist outside a timeline and constitutes a kind of 'temporal tourism' where visitors are moving back and forth between disparate eras - Adventurers is not like that at all as the characters are grounded in a cohesive era and living distinct if literary-cliched lives as adventurer explorers. If you're going to be that strict about the definition of what constitutes 'History' (perhaps pre 20th Century as I suggested above?), then surely a whole lot of Castle lines based on fantasy elements don't meet this criteria. To be honest, Adventurers seems more 'historical' to me than themes which rely on Norse myth, LOTR stylings or 19th Century Gothic Horror (such as the Batlord Castle subtheme), which could even possibly be more regarded as Sci Fi! You could end up with a situation where 10193 Medieval Market Village is allowed as it has some semblance of reality, but everything else from 07 onwards - bearing much more resemblance to literature than to real life - is partitioned as Fantasy. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Shadows Posted June 20, 2009 *SNIP*(perhaps pre 20th Century as I suggested above?) *SNIP* Works for me! Seriously, you could have sold me with that on it's own. If you'll stick to that, I'll try to get you a nice place for ice trays and egg timers. Seriously though, I don't see Adventurers as historical for the same reason you don't see Time Cruisers that way, they visited modern (for their period) ruins of historical places like tourists. I'd really like to reserve historical themes for things primarily centered around real historical periods when they happened. If they ever made Romans, no question where it would go. If Johnny Thunder visited Roman ruins, it wouldn't be the same. Yes, Castle, Ninja and Viking all include mythological and fantasy influences, but typically not as their main focus, instead they serve as an element of conflict so kids have something to fight. Pretty much all Castle lines since the 90's have been this way, but they've still always been centered around at least one major human faction in a castle. For Adventurers, the main focus was on the team that never did any real archaeology and more or less played tourist through ruins of historical periods, a non-historical period, and dinosaurs. I really want to draw this line and be done with it before it sucks in other areas. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zepher Posted June 20, 2009 Why is there even a question about this? If it happened in the history, it's past. If it's happening now, it's not. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VBBN Posted June 20, 2009 I have a quick comment about the layout, maybe even an admin would be kind to do so, is it possible we could swatch the Community and B/S/T sections around? I am really frusterated, because I am used to Community being in the middle. Everything else looks good though. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Capt. Kirk Posted June 21, 2009 I had a quick look at the new layout and at first sight... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
