Lego Icons 10332 Medieval Town Square Discussion Thread

[zoth33]

22 hours ago, Lyichir said:

I literally said so in the very post you quoted. The Orca is a big, prominent part of the set it's in, which is priced to suit the inclusion of such a large molded animal. That's going to probably drive sales of that one set the same way the big molded dinosaurs from the various Jurassic sets do.

By comparison, goats are just kind of plain, not exceptional. They're small animals like any other and don't have a ton of "wow factor" for kids. I honestly think the only reason they're so desired by AFOLs, compared to other animals like pigs or sheep or cows, is because they were once ever-so-briefly available and never have been since. But unlike hardcore AFOLs who have been following what animals are or aren't available, most buyers don't know that—to them a goat is probably just an animal like any other, and probably not something that'd make a major impact on the sales of any one given set.

I'm reminded also of the reason Lego doesn't rerelease modular buildings—that the potential sales for any possible rerelease is smaller than the potential sales of a brand-new one, minus people who already have the original and are satisfied with it. So when Lego has the budget to create a new animal mold, a similar calculus may play out—should we make goats again, which very few fans have, or should we make an animal that we've never produced and which absolutely nobody has? We've seen a lot of new animals in recent years, and I wouldn't be surprised if this sort of calculation has played out.

All this isn't to say we'll NEVER see goats again or that there couldn't be a scenario where they'd be worth bringing back. But despite the AFOL passion for goats, there's little reason to assume that bringing goats back is or should be the highest possible priority for Lego designers.

Ok then why have they made smaller molds for rabbits.  Or like the Hare they only have sparingly used.  I just find it odd that they will put in new molds for things like orca's, sharks, etc.  Yet we still have the same bat mold.  Also they made those oversized ants and only used those in 2 sets so I don't get the justification for saying they need to fit it in the budget as Lego can clearly do that with the goat which can be used in multiple sets across different themes.  

[Lyichir]

24 minutes ago, zoth33 said:

Ok then why have they made smaller molds for rabbits.  Or like the Hare they only have sparingly used.  I just find it odd that they will put in new molds for things like orca's, sharks, etc.  Yet we still have the same bat mold.  Also they made those oversized ants and only used those in 2 sets so I don't get the justification for saying they need to fit it in the budget as Lego can clearly do that with the goat which can be used in multiple sets across different themes.  

The hare and ants are easy to explain—those were for licensed themes (the subject matter of which are very dependent on what's in the material it's adapting). Bunnies are cute and cuddly pets (and great for things like Easter sets or magic acts). Orcas and sharks have the aforementioned "wow factor" for kids, that add a lot of play value to a given set.

I do think it'd be nice to get a new bat mold (like the newer rats), but I feel like (like the frog), the old slightly clunky version is nostalgic enough and used decoratively enough that Lego doesn't see the need.

Edited June 21, 2023 by Lyichir

[BrickJagger]

On 6/19/2023 at 11:37 AM, woodford86 said:

I don't buy the "too expensive to make" argument about the molds. Look how many one-off pieces get released in the CMF's every year, and how many new animal molds are churned out for city line etc. You'll never convince me that a killer whale or a seal or a tortoise is easier to place in sets than a goat.

I find it difficult to accept that a multi-billion-dollar corporation can believably cry poor about having to create one (1) new mold that it also knows will be very popular : )

[zoth33]

8 minutes ago, BrickJagger said:

I find it difficult to accept that a multi-billion-dollar corporation can believably cry poor about having to create one (1) new mold that it also knows will be very popular : )

Exactly.  I don't know why people are making excuses.  They can easily do it.  

[Grover]

1 hour ago, zoth33 said:

Exactly.  I don't know why people are making excuses.  They can easily do it.  

Considering that a precision mold is expensive (think $100k), it would seem cost prohibitive for one-off molds like for the CMFs, but they do it.  Some of these may be lesser quality shorter run molds, but still, the mold is expensive, especially at the precision tolerances the TLG demands.  As for the goat, I can see all sides of the argument.  However, the goat is a fairly complex shape, with the curved horns, etc., as one must consider how the mold is filled, particularly if there is dual molding going on (as in for the horns).  The sheep and the cows are popular. I think that the goat would be just as popular with kids and non AFOLs, plus have the extra draw of AFOL buys, so it would probably sell pretty well.  That said, TLG is still a business, and I have no idea how they make their choices on budgets, profit margins etc., so there's no telling.

[Roebuck]

3 hours ago, zoth33 said:

They can easily do it.  

Yes, but now it is all about the right moment with the right set and in the meantime enjoy the hype

2 hours ago, Grover said:

Considering that a precision mold is expensive (think $100k), it would seem cost prohibitive for one-off molds like for the CMFs, but they do it.  Some of these may be lesser quality shorter run molds, but still, the mold is expensive, especially at the precision tolerances the TLG demands

The CMF sell so many sets so it is worth it and the theme have a very high budget they can use for new moulds (I wonder how much the sales will drop with the new boxes)..

2 hours ago, Grover said:

As for the goat, I can see all sides of the argument.  However, the goat is a fairly complex shape, with the curved horns, etc., as one must consider how the mold is filled, particularly if there is dual molding going on (as in for the horns).  The sheep and the cows are popular. I think that the goat would be just as popular with kids and non AFOLs, plus have the extra draw of AFOL buys, so it would probably sell pretty well.  That said, TLG is still a business, and I have no idea how they make their choices on budgets, profit margins etc., so there's no telling.

If the goat did not exist and the hype and demand for a re-release was not a issue, I think it would have been made for a new farm sub-theme in City or a CMF. We got the farm animals in the following order:

1. Horse
2. Foal
3. Cow
4. Pig
5. Hen
6. Sheep
7. Calf, Piglet, Lamb (sheep wool)
8. The most likely next farm animal? Goat, roaster, chickens, duck, geese, donkey?

[Lyichir]

20 hours ago, BrickJagger said:

I find it difficult to accept that a multi-billion-dollar corporation can believably cry poor about having to create one (1) new mold that it also knows will be very popular : )

I feel like we're talking in circles. Obviously Lego can make molds of anything it wants to. My point the whole time has been that goats are a somewhat niche interest despite certain AFOL fervor for them, and that when Lego has had the choice between remaking a goat and using the budget in other ways, it has so far opted for the latter. It's not a matter of being "too poor", it's a matter of priorities, and unfortunately for some AFOLs their particular desires are not always as important or universal as they seem to think they are.

[zoth33]

3 hours ago, Lyichir said:

I feel like we're talking in circles. Obviously Lego can make molds of anything it wants to. My point the whole time has been that goats are a somewhat niche interest despite certain AFOL fervor for them, and that when Lego has had the choice between remaking a goat and using the budget in other ways, it has so far opted for the latter. It's not a matter of being "too poor", it's a matter of priorities, and unfortunately for some AFOLs their particular desires are not always as important or universal as they seem to think they are.

I get what people are saying.  The penguin is pretty niche they still made that.  My point is goats are pretty common all over the world why not just make one I mean you have cows, horses, sheep, rabbits, chickens, pigs, are all common domesticated animals.  I mean they made a bald eagle.  They really need to make a regular wolf and fox.  They also made squirrels.  I mean I could go on and on but I think a goat would be great to have again and they could make so many different color variations.  

[Roebuck]

3 hours ago, zoth33 said:

but I think a goat would be great to have again and they could make so many different color variations.  

Yes, I really hope when we see the goat again (in this set hopefully) it has a different color and/or print then the original

[BrickJagger]

6 hours ago, Lyichir said:

I feel like we're talking in circles. Obviously Lego can make molds of anything it wants to. My point the whole time has been that goats are a somewhat niche interest despite certain AFOL fervor for them, and that when Lego has had the choice between remaking a goat and using the budget in other ways, it has so far opted for the latter. It's not a matter of being "too poor", it's a matter of priorities, and unfortunately for some AFOLs their particular desires are not always as important or universal as they seem to think they are.

I can't find the original source right now and my bad if I'm misremembering, but I am pretty sure Lego has brought up the prohibitive cost of making a new goat mold at least once. If Lego isn't making goats because they're "niche" I can accept that, but we'd all be better off if they just admitted it instead of leaving it up for speculation. I agree with @zoth33 that they've been negligent when it comes to making run-of-the-mill animals. Considering one of the most mundane farm animals out there a "niche adult interest" is as fascinating as it is bizarre. 

[Roebuck]

48 minutes ago, BrickJagger said:

I can't find the original source right now and my bad if I'm misremembering, but I am pretty sure Lego has brought up the prohibitive cost of making a new goat mold at least once.

I believe it was for the blacksmith set, but Ideas have close to zero budget so no surprise there

50 minutes ago, BrickJagger said:

If Lego isn't making goats because they're "niche" I can accept that, but we'd all be better off if they just admitted it instead of leaving it up for speculation. 

The speculation is probably good advertising for them
 

51 minutes ago, BrickJagger said:

 I agree with @zoth33 that they've been negligent when it comes to making run-of-the-mill animals. Considering one of the most mundane farm animals out there a "niche adult interest" is as fascinating as it is bizarre.

I do not think it is considered too niche, but for a 10 year period after the goat we did not get almost a single farm animal not even a horse in any set. The last few years we have gotten a lot of animals also farm animals, but I understand why they made those instead of a goat. However with the next set with new farm animals it makes very little sense not to include a goat since we got moulds of the more common ones now. So as long as we get this set out on the marked we are golden, I am sure it will include a goat mould or maybe even two

[Alexandrina]

On 6/23/2023 at 6:35 AM, BrickJagger said:

Considering one of the most mundane farm animals out there a "niche adult interest" is as fascinating as it is bizarre. 

I don't think @Lyichir was saying goats are in any way niche or obscure as animals, but the subset of people who 1) are Lego fans, 2) care about what animals Lego puts out, and 3) want goats more than any other animal is niche. Especially given that until two years ago there were no sheep, cows were long out of production, and pigs were recently released in a Harry Potter set. There are limited opportunities for farm animals anyway, especially since if the rumours that the Medieval Village is a spin-off of part of the original Lion Knights Castle model are true, animals weren't the priority for that set. Last year's Farm subtheme did a good job bringing the standard farm animals into Lego's repertoire (alongside the squirrel, which isn't a farm animal but is far more common a sight than goats).

I'd also argue that goats are in the "second tier" of farm animals. To me, the mundane farm animals are pigs, cows, sheep, horses and chickens. I don't remember seeing any media where goats are resident on a standard farm, nor can I recall ever going to a farm which had goats.

[TeriXeri]

1 hour ago, Alexandrina said:

I'd also argue that goats are in the "second tier" of farm animals. To me, the mundane farm animals are pigs, cows, sheep, horses and chickens. I don't remember seeing any media where goats are resident on a standard farm, nor can I recall ever going to a farm which had goats.

The only goat farms i've visited were childrens farms with goats to pet, or goat milk farms that usually make ice cream on-site as a tourist attraction, but there are bigger commercial goat milk (white goats) farms for cheese as well.

Goat cheese is also big product of southern Europe , whereas Goat meat is quite popular, especially outside of Northern Europe/North America.

But yeah in terms of LEGO's Farm / European Medieval sets, I always see those mainly based on Northern Europe (farm and castle)/North America (farm), as well, so goats being less common compared to other animals isn't a surprise.

A petting zoo or goat milk/cheese farm would be a pretty cool City set tho.

Edited June 27, 2023 by TeriXeri

[MAB]

I doubt a goat mold will need to be as expensive as some other parts as it does not have to have the tolerances of a brick with multiple attachment points. It doesn't have to have incredibly accurate tooling, so long as the anti-studs at the feet grip whatever it is standing on and the back stud works, the rest of the shape is not very important when it comes to precision.

I imagine the larger problem is fitting it in to sets in a meaningful way. I'd prefer more sheep than goats. I really wonder if the demand is there. The goat is essentially a meme because it is hard to find and therefore expensive but could well be not very popular if it was widely available.

[Alexandrina]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

The goat is essentially a meme because it is hard to find and therefore expensive but could well be not very popular if it was widely available.

There's also the issue that those who are most desperately wanting the goat are more likely to have already bought one on the secondary market if they didn't get one new (obviously not everyone is in a position to afford a goat, of course) - the demographic that already owns a goat and therefore won't buy a set just because the goat is in it likely overlaps with the demographic who would see a goat as a significant selling point influencing their decision to buy.

[Sir Dano]

I already have two goats but you're very mistaken if you think I wouldn't buy more if they were available in a set or for a reasonable price.

[LegoAUT]

Honestly, I love goats for historical MOCs but I would never ever pay the aftermarket prices for TLG goats.. that‘s just crazy. 

[Roebuck]

It looks to me that several sets lately have popped up from nowhere for sale in shops. So I still have a small hope we will see this set this year as a surprise release 

However so far there is not a whisper as far as I know that any of the sets that came from the same source are releasing right?! Not even one of the Disney once and they are releasing a LOT of them this year..

[eldiano]

I’m confused so why did the leaked images of this set have a goat then? Granted the study group might have screwed it up but either way it’s safe to say it’s around the corner within this year or next year, the thing is that even at the beginning of the year we had no idea wether lego was releasing the medieval village or el dorado fortress and look what happened haha

[Black Feather]

Pretty sure they are coming at some point.  I don’t think LEGO made all that effort to clean it from the internet because it was a hoax.  Hope not too long.  And hope that blurry forestman looking figure is a black or blue alternate color of the red one from 10305.  Going to be pissed if it’s just the red one again or not a forestman at all. 

[Roebuck]

4 hours ago, eldiano said:

I’m confused so why did the leaked images of this set have a goat then?

The goat is a good point! I assume they could have gotten hold of one old one instead of putting one prelim one there, indicating they will make a new mould for the set..

2 hours ago, Black Feather said:

 I don’t think LEGO made all that effort to clean it from the internet because it was a hoax. 

I think Lego will go after any site that has pictures of leaks and prelims stamped on them. It was definitely not a hoax the pictures came from Lego, no one is that good on faking leaks unless the AI have started doing it However it is still possible it was only sets designed by the designers on the day in the month they can build whatever they want and Lego used them in the survey to see if anyone was interested in buying them if they hit the shelf's

[eldiano]

On 7/10/2023 at 1:54 AM, Roebuck said:

The goat is a good point! I assume they could have gotten hold of one old one instead of putting one prelim one there, indicating they will make a new mould for the set..

I think Lego will go after any site that has pictures of leaks and prelims stamped on them. It was definitely not a hoax the pictures came from Lego, no one is that good on faking leaks unless the AI have started doing it However it is still possible it was only sets designed by the designers on the day in the month they can build whatever they want and Lego used them in the survey to see if anyone was interested in buying them if they hit the shelf's

If i remember correctly the goat was grey! definetely hinting at something new. 

LEGO's not playing around, they just shut down a server on discord for DCMA violations(clearly had lego confidential labels all over it) so it's not even safe to talk about it I think. 

[Khargeust]

On 7/10/2023 at 8:54 AM, Roebuck said:

I think Lego will go after any site that has pictures of leaks and prelims stamped on them. 

 

21 minutes ago, eldiano said:

LEGO's not playing around, they just shut down a server on discord for DCMA violations(clearly had lego confidential labels all over it) so it's not even safe to talk about it I think. 

 

The leaked picture is still on Reddit and YouTube.

[Roebuck]

23 minutes ago, eldiano said:

If i remember correctly the goat was grey! definetely hinting at something new. 

LEGO's not playing around, they just shut down a server on discord for DCMA violations(clearly had lego confidential labels all over it) so it's not even safe to talk about it I think. 

I think it had the color of a mould in the earlier stages of development, so impossible to say what colour it will have in the set, hopefully a new one
It should be no problem taking about it as long as no one post a picture of it

[RichardGoring]

7 hours ago, eldiano said:

If i remember correctly the goat was grey! definetely hinting at something new. 

It was grey, but I suspect it's a 3D printed prototype/stand-in, before they get proper tooling to do it in production. (IF they get proper tooling to do it in production. It's still a concept and may be changed before finalization).