40516 Everyone Is Awesome

[PhoenixBuilder]

29 minutes ago, NetherCreeper said:

I do hope they do more than just release a set. Make a donation or participate in an event, or anything more than just try to get people to buy stuff. That'll help make the point stronger and not just a marketing ploy.

Agreed on this entirely. Very excited about the idea of a Pride set, but if the money just goes to Lego's pockets I'll feel uncomfortable about it. There are plenty of charities the proceeds could go to that represent the message behind the set. 

[Robert8]

2 hours ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

Awesome set  The blue minifig’s hairpiece is a new mould, right? I wonder if it was specifically designed for this set or whether it was originally intended for another set that got pushed back or something. Can’t think of a licensed character with that hairstyle though

Superman from the CW shows

But you're right. Seems to be new!

3 hours ago, williejm said:

It doesn’t sound like an odd concept at all.

It’s a set embracing Pride and Diversity - hence the rainbow 🌈 and the 11 different coloured monochrome figures representing the 11 colours on the progressive Pride flag (which is a combination of this 🏳️‍🌈(standard six-colour Pride flag) , the transgender Pride flag (pink, white and light blue) and also features black 🖤and brown🤎 for racial diversity.

I, for one, am ecstatically surprised and delighted by this, and I’m sure many other LGBTI+ Lego fans and fans-to-be will be too. 

Ohhh I didt click to me fitst but now it makes sense

Hmm what an odd idea for a LEGO set 

 

 

[Captain Nemo]

FYI—I removed an image of the set posted here. 
 

I know it is everywhere online, but please do not post leaked images here.

Discussion can continue here; FYI there will be a dedicated press release/discussion thread when(ever) the set is officially revealed. 

[strangely]

1 hour ago, TheMainBricker said:

It's a nice colourful set, but the very fact that this set won't be allowed to be sold in a lot of countries means that it is a very political set, and one that I think breaks Lego's own rules about political statements. The fact that there will be debate around Lego doing this set means that it's political, I'm really surprised Lego want to go down this route.

That's for Lego to decide, if they don't feel it's political, it's not. They internally made this decision, so it clearly falls within their interpretation of their standards.

[williejm]

3 hours ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

 

Existence is political for some of us. 

[Graupensuppe]

I did it first (kind of)

[2lazeetomakeaname]

19 minutes ago, strangely said:

That's for Lego to decide, if they don't feel it's political, it's not. They internally made this decision, so it clearly falls within their interpretation of their standards.

They could have easily made the Osprey and crooks hideout fit in their interpretation of their own standards. This set existing is fine, but not when other sets have been cancelled for being "political"

Edited May 18, 2021 by 2lazeetomakeaname

[williejm]

10 minutes ago, 2lazeetomakeaname said:

They could have easily made the Osprey and crooks hideout fit in their interpretation of their own standards. This set existing is fine, but not when other sets have been cancelled for being "political"

Yeah. That’s not your decision though ... so you don’t really get to say X is only fine if Y happens ...

[2lazeetomakeaname]

3 minutes ago, williejm said:

Yeah. That’s not your decision though ... so you don’t really get to say X is only fine if Y happens ...

I didn't say it was my decision though, I said there policy is stupid.

 

[PhoenixBuilder]

22 minutes ago, 2lazeetomakeaname said:

They could have easily made the Osprey and crooks hideout fit in their interpretation of their own standards. This set existing is fine, but not when other sets have been cancelled for being "political"

In fairness, there's a harm that can be identified with the military associations of the Osprey. I don't think this set is comparable, there's no harm in recognition of civil rights and liberties. As Lego said when the Crook's Hideout cancellation was announced, 'we always aim to represent the reality of the world in a way that is fun, positive and appropriate for kids.'

Edited May 18, 2021 by PhoenixBuilder

[2lazeetomakeaname]

1 minute ago, PhoenixBuilder said:

In fairness, there's a harm that can be identified with the military associations of the Osprey. I don't think this set is comparable, there's no harm in recognition of civil rights and liberties.

But why can't there be a dynamite factory? Theres more violence in most licensed themes. They really need to update there rules to clarify what they can and can't do, because it isn't very clear.

[FrkW]

Also, while to me it's obvious this is the pride flag, and just in time for pride month, it would surprise me if it actually says so. That way countries with laws against "gay propaganda" would have a hard time motivating a ban.

It does make directly linked donations from profit tricky thought, as does the global reach (would it all go to organisations in Denmark? European initiatives? The country where it was purchased? In several countries, unfortunately, LGBT+ organisations are banned).  

I do think it's a wonderful step even sans donations, thought. Inclusion matters, and Lego have a far greater reach than many which could be said to have gone after the pink money. This can make a difference for kids struggling with their identities, and rainbow families. 

Also, all those colours!😍

[TheMainBricker]

23 minutes ago, PhoenixBuilder said:

In fairness, there's a harm that can be identified with the military associations of the Osprey. I don't think this set is comparable, there's no harm in recognition of civil rights and liberties. As Lego said when the Crook's Hideout cancellation was announced, 'we always aim to represent the reality of the world in a way that is fun, positive and appropriate for kids.'

People are too wrapped up in Western ideas to think that this set isn't political. You can't just say recognition of civil rights and liberties is not political. The fact that this set won't be able to be sold in certain countries is enough to be classified as political, this is creating a debate around particular issues, therefore it is political. I don't recall other sets then raising question over charitable donations etc.

Is this set purely for LGBT people? Are straight people allowed the set? How was Lego not inclusive before? Did LGBT feel that Lego was not for them? What has my sexual orientation got to do with Lego?

Again the fact that we are now discussing these issues means that it's a political set. I don't want to come out on one side or the other, but again as there are two sides, it is a political issue. And there will be pressure for Lego to start doing other sorts of sets.

[williejm]

1 minute ago, TheMainBricker said:

And there will be pressure for Lego to start doing other sorts of sets.

Great. Representation matters. 

[FrkW]

The fact that the right to be yourself have been politicized in some countries doesn't make it inherently political. 

Also, it's fun colours! Colours are great. And for everyone. I'm sure the Lego staff won't ask us for gay credentials when we get it, just like they don't ask us if we celebrate Christmas or Easter or Lunar New Year, or are really getting (heterosexually) married when we get any of those sets. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by FrkW
Spelling

[williejm]

1 minute ago, FrkW said:

The fact that the right to be yourself have been politicized in some countries doesn't make it inherently political. 

Also, it's fun colours! Colours are great. And for everyone. I'm sure the Lego staff won't ask for us for gay credentials when we get it, just like they don't ask us if we celebrate Christmas or Easter or Lunar New Year, or are really getting (heterosexually) married when we get any of those sets. 

Ssssshhhh - they’re not supposed to know we have gay credentials. 

[PhoenixBuilder]

2 minutes ago, TheMainBricker said:

People are too wrapped up in Western ideas to think that this set isn't political. You can't just say recognition of civil rights and liberties is not political. The fact that this set won't be able to be sold in certain countries is enough to be classified as political, this is creating a debate around particular issues, therefore it is political. I don't recall other sets then raising question over charitable donations etc.

 

I didn't say it wasn't political -- I was saying that one has an identifiable harm, while the other doesn't. I cannot identify a harm that comes from recognising LGBTQ people. 

3 minutes ago, TheMainBricker said:

 Is this set purely for LGBT people? Are straight people allowed the set? How was Lego not inclusive before? Did LGBT feel that Lego was not for them? What has my sexual orientation got to do with Lego?

 

1: No. 2: Yes. 3-5: I think it's less about Lego themselves, and more about the community. Brickset published an article about a LUG group organised by and for LGBTQ people (and allies if I recall correctly), and it garnered a large number of comments that ranged from tone-deaf to offensive. It's in Lego's interest to make the community (and therefore their customer base!) as wide as possible, and to encourage a brand and community that is about positivity and safety for kids, values which they articulate frequently. That they have chosen to express those values through a set isn't hugely surprising I don't think. 

8 minutes ago, TheMainBricker said:

I don't want to come out on one side or the other, but again as there are two sides, it is a political issue.

Just a couple of quick pointers, to keep the conversation constructive: it's best to refer to LGBTQ people as either 'LGBTQ people' or 'the LGBTQ community', and not just 'LGBT' as it can be a little dehumanising. Also, while you may not want to come out on one side of the "issue", that's not a choice that LGBTQ people have, particularly in countries where rights are not recognised, so that in itself is a difference in how discussions about civil rights can be approached. Also, suggesting that there are 'two sides' implies that those arguing against civil rights for LGBTQ people have some sort of say or legitimacy, which again is upsetting for LGBTQ people to hear. 

I realise that this is veering off-topic and don't want to get drawn into a debate in what is supposed to be a Minifig thread, but if anyone is looking for info or would genuinely like more information please feel free to DM :-)

[FrkW]

1 minute ago, williejm said:

Ssssshhhh - they’re not supposed to know we have gay credentials. 

Oh, sorry! Between watching Eurovision, passing the huge rainbow unicorn taking over the main square for Europride and this set I thought it was time to set all our nefarious plans to action. Will return to the secret (but fabulous) planning at once. 

[TheMainBricker]

2 minutes ago, PhoenixBuilder said:

I didn't say it wasn't political -- I was saying that one has an identifiable harm, while the other doesn't. I cannot identify a harm that comes from recognising LGBTQ people. 

1: No. 2: Yes. 3-5: I think it's less about Lego themselves, and more about the community. Brickset published an article about a LUG group organised by and for LGBTQ people (and allies if I recall correctly), and it garnered a large number of comments that ranged from tone-deaf to offensive. It's in Lego's interest to make the community (and therefore their customer base!) as wide as possible, and to encourage a brand and community that is about positivity and safety for kids, values which they articulate frequently. That they have chosen to express those values through a set isn't hugely surprising I don't think. 

Just a couple of quick pointers, to keep the conversation constructive: it's best to refer to LGBTQ people as either 'LGBTQ people' or 'the LGBTQ community', and not just 'LGBT' as it can be a little dehumanising. Also, while you may not want to come out on one side of the "issue", that's not a choice that LGBTQ people have, particularly in countries where rights are not recognised, so that in itself is a difference in how discussions about civil rights can be approached. Also, suggesting that there are 'two sides' implies that those arguing against civil rights for LGBTQ people have some sort of say or legitimacy, which again is upsetting for LGBTQ people to hear. 

I realise that this is veering off-topic and don't want to get drawn into a debate in what is supposed to be a Minifig thread, but if anyone is looking for info or would genuinely like more information please feel free to DM :-)

Again everything here just proves that it is political. Lego has generally been about not upsetting people and being fairly neutral on everything. I've no doubt there will be negative press generated in some quarters with it, and it is a spat Lego could do without.

There are people who have opposing opinions (you and I believe that they are wrong, that's fine, but it's irrelevant). I am personally surprised at Lego getting involved with anything where people have opposing opinions. I'm surprised that a brand risk manager allowed it.

Easter and Christmas sets purposely don't have any religious iconography. Lego even had a debate over doing Star Wars because War is in the title. Lego steer clear of real history because they don't want to get wrapped up in real world issues.

Again it's still the fact that people are debating this means that it's political and very much tied in with real world issues. The fact that we're worried what we can and can't discuss here is testament to it.

[Lion King]

Hmm this seteveryone describe here sounds intersting to me (I haven’t seen a leaked image yet). 

I have to say - I’m very surprised! I could see this set creating a positive impact on most of people (lego fan or not). 

Toronto’s city motto says “Diveristy is our strength”. 

Edited May 18, 2021 by DBlegonerd7

[2lazeetomakeaname]

5 minutes ago, DBlegonerd7 said:

Toronto’s city motto says “Diveristy is our strength”. 

Doesn't Canada jail people for saying "offensive" things?

[gedren_y]

Lego has made monochrome figs before, plenty of times, so I think the thing that they have never done before (mentioned in the initial leaks) is take a stand on an issue that can be politically divisive.

Now about what is in the set: I can see the value of some of these parts for a number of MOCs, but since I'm not into Lego as display pieces, I'll probably wait to see what of this becomes available on B&P before I decide whether or not to buy.

[Aanchir]

4 hours ago, TheMainBricker said:

It's a nice colourful set, but the very fact that this set won't be allowed to be sold in a lot of countries means that it is a very political set, and one that I think breaks Lego's own rules about political statements. The fact that there will be debate around Lego doing this set means that it's political, I'm really surprised Lego want to go down this route. 

I can't say I'm entirely surprised myself, but I'm certainly impressed. Trying to discuss what is or isn't "political" is often a bit of a fool's errand since it's so subjective. After all, people have criticized past LEGO stuff for being "political" such as The LEGO Movie and its sequel, the Research institute and Women of NASA sets, pretty much any sets which present green energy as an alternative to fossil fuels, and even the updated LEGO Friends character designs.

What's a lot less murky are the LEGO Group's own values of diversity and inclusion. For example, this set's designer, Matthew Ashton, is the LEGO Group's Vice President of Design. He's also openly gay. Various TLG offices have held internal pride celebrations for years, and in 2019 they went even further by becoming a sponsor of Pride in London and maintaining a booth during the festivities so that kids and adults could take a moment to express themselves using LEGO bricks and minifigures.

And in all honesty, that sort of consistency in their values means way more to me than some nebulous objection to "politics", which can mean wildly different things to different people. Eurobricks itself has a rule against discussions about politics, but you and others clearly have no problem bringing political debate into a discussion of a generally harmless set with an uplifting message.

34 minutes ago, TheMainBricker said:

Again everything here just proves that it is political. Lego has generally been about not upsetting people and being fairly neutral on everything. I've no doubt there will be negative press generated in some quarters with it, and it is a spat Lego could do without.

There are people who have opposing opinions (you and I believe that they are wrong, that's fine, but it's irrelevant). I am personally surprised at Lego getting involved with anything where people have opposing opinions. I'm surprised that a brand risk manager allowed it.

People have opposing opinions about just about everything. Remember all the controversy about the Research Institute and Women of NASA sets? Or the Star Wars sequel trilogy and 2016 Ghostbusters movie? Or the Simpsons, Big Bang Theory, Stranger Things, and Overwatch licenses? Even Harry Potter is so controversial among some conservative Christians that The Entertainer, a major British toy brand, doesn't carry them or ANY sets or themes that they consider "occult".

Beyond individual sets and IPs:

• "Green" technologies we've seen in a lot of recent City sets (windmills, solar panels, electric vehicles, etc) are highly controversial in many political circles, while fossil fuels are highly controversial in others. If LEGO is supposed to avoid political controversies, does that mean they shouldn't make sets that portray EITHER of those options?
• Also, in some cultures, it's still politically controversial for women to work outside the home, or for men to be their children's primary caregivers. Should LEGO omit working women or stay-at-home dads from all their sets as well?
• Needless to say, police have also been an extremely divisive, hot-button political issue in a lot of parts of the world lately. Yet, if anything, in most AFOL discussions I've seen, the consensus is that it would be "political" for LEGO not to make police sets. Why is that issue any different from this one?

And if a country's truly so committed to homophobia or transphobia that they'd ban this set? Well, the entire LEGO Indiana Jones theme was banned in Germany, and that was at a time when Germany was still one of their biggest markets. Why would the prospect of a few countries banning a single set be a bigger deal breaker than that?

All in all, I agree that a set like this will inevitably generate some backlash and controversy. But i think it speaks highly for the LEGO Group's values and sends a powerful message that they've chosen to release it anyway. For those who are that bothered by it? That's their loss, and perhaps an overdue wake-up call it's not the LEGO Group's responsibility to indulge their naive prejudices in every single set they produce.

[RichardGoring]

2 hours ago, TheMainBricker said:

Again everything here just proves that it is political. Lego has generally been about not upsetting people and being fairly neutral on everything...

...I am personally surprised at Lego getting involved with anything where people have opposing opinions...

In addition to all the things that Aanchir said, LEGO very publicly supported Black Lives Matter.

I see this as LEGO embracing diversity and representation. I celebrate that. And, FWIW, it's an awesome set that looks amazing!

55 minutes ago, Aanchir said:

I can't say I'm entirely surprised myself, but I'm certainly impressed. Trying to discuss what is or isn't "political" is often a bit of a fool's errand since it's so subjective...

 

[Graupensuppe]

1 hour ago, Aanchir said:

Well, the entire LEGO Indiana Jones theme was banned in Germany, and that was at a time when Germany was still one of their biggest markets.

Wait, what?