Why is LEGO so hesitant about bringing back classic themes?

[MAB]

14 hours ago, Toastie said:

@MABHere we go again - whether or not someone sees some kid in some store interested or not in Schleich's stuff let's look at the numbers:

https://us.schleich-s.com/en/US/company/facts-and-figures/

185 Mio Euro = 5% of TLG; of these 50% in Germany. Growth is 17%.

Why was Schleich important in the first place? I forgot. But I believe we begin to compare oranges with Corona beer.

BTW my daughters had the whole line of dinosaurs first and then every horse you can think of. And they played endless hours because they watched "Little Foot" and "Bibi und Tina" videos. It is again and again the same ...

Best
Thorsten  

I am not doubting that they sell, because stores continue to stock them. If they didn't sell, stores would not stock them. However, the question was do kids play with them, or are they toys for adults?

I believe the reason they were brought up is because they do a range of medieval knights, and this was used as proof that kids like medieval knights with the implication that LEGO should bring back castle.

 

[Medzomorak]

2 hours ago, Lego David said:

Hey guys, we're going kinda off-topic here. We are here to discuss Classic themes and what prevents LEGO from bringing them back, not whether Playmobil sells or not. If you want to talk about Playmobil, there are other places to do so.

I think it is a valid comparison taking that Playmobil do sell classic themes and making an acceptable profit from it. I think this is an important piece in the bigger picture.

[leafan]

2 hours ago, MAB said:

I am not doubting that they sell, because stores continue to stock them. If they didn't sell, stores would not stock them. However, the question was do kids play with them, or are they toys for adults?

I believe the reason they were brought up is because they do a range of medieval knights, and this was used as proof that kids like medieval knights with the implication that LEGO should bring back castle.

My boy really liked them when they were spotted at the Zoo gift shop once, and so did I, but the price tag made me buy a small plush red panda instead.

So in my case, a then 5 year old liked them enough, but they're not priced for that market.

[The Brick Boss]

@leafan I have the school bus for my bus collection. My son likes to take it out, roll it around and press the little button up top to turn the lights on. I can't get angry with him despite the fact that I have a "DO NOT TOUCH" sign on the cabinet as I wouldn't consider Playmobil vehicles to be ONLY for display purposes. 

Edited March 5, 2020 by Brandon Pea

[MAB]

On 3/3/2020 at 12:29 PM, leafan said:

My boy really liked them when they were spotted at the Zoo gift shop once, and so did I, but the price tag made me buy a small plush red panda instead.

So in my case, a then 5 year old liked them enough, but they're not priced for that market.

This was my impression as well - that they are not really kids' toys. They are excellent quality and detail but it seems almost too good for a kid. And of course the price to match. When my kids were small and playing with farmyard type animals, you could buy a whole flock from another brand for the price of one animal.

 

[meliander]

So TLG announced the results for 2019 (quote from Brickset):

Top selling themes in no particular order were LEGO City, LEGO Creator, LEGO Friends, LEGO Technic, LEGO Classic and LEGO Star Wars.

The LEGO Harry Potter, LEGO Super Heroes (Marvel Avengers) and LEGO Disney Princess themes also performed strongly.

Seems like a lot of classic stuff to me :) I mean Friends is not classic, but Star Wars kinda is. I'm really happy with these results, to be honest.

Edited March 5, 2020 by meliander
formating

[The Brick Boss]

@meliander City has been one of the top 3 since 2007 man. That's gotta tell you something. 

Edited March 13, 2020 by Brandon Pea

[meliander]

@Brandon Pea Yeah City is at the top obviously. I'm more surprised that Ninjago is not there, but Classic is. I also didn't know that Technic is selling well.

[The Brick Boss]

@meliander Ninjago is likely not selling well because of the changes that most of the fans don't really care for.

I guess looking back on it, when Ninjago came out in 2011, people were into it because it was the closest they could get to Dragon Ball Z in the Lego universe. But now, it's basically become a Japanese version of Lego City.  

As for Technic..I guess that mostly has to do with the fact that putting things on display has always been a popular trend. So Lego is taking part in the success. 

Edited March 5, 2020 by Brandon Pea

[icm]

Technic is always one of the top selling themes.

[The Brick Boss]

@icm Why of course it is. It will continue to be one as long as there are people that like those kinds of sets. 

[Toastie]

4 hours ago, meliander said:

I mean Friends is not classic, but Star Wars kinda is. I'm really happy with these results, to be honest.

I am also very happy.

The above themes may appear classic and that is OK, but the theme "Classic" selling so well means to me that people are actually building their own stuff. Classic is the core of the idea of LEGO. That selling well means all is well

Best
Thorsten 

[Medzomorak]

7 hours ago, meliander said:

Seems like a lot of classic stuff to me :) I mean Friends is not classic, but Star Wars kinda is. I'm really happy with these results, to be honest.

I know everything is subjective here, but I think this sentence shows perfectly why Lego is hesitant to bring back classic themes. For many people Star Wars is already a classic. In my honest opinion it is the most non-classic themes ever, so at this point this thread is far away from reaching any synthesis. 

[Lego David]

49 minutes ago, Medzomorak said:

I know everything is subjective here, but I think this sentence shows perfectly why Lego is hesitant to bring back classic themes. For many people Star Wars is already a classic. In my honest opinion it is the most non-classic themes ever, so at this point this thread is far away from reaching any synthesis. 

I am in full agreement.

[MAB]

I am a bit surprised that Classic is there, when you consider that 2019 Classic was five sets: 11001-11005. Although I guess they shift a lot of these in supermarkets and they are good value when considering price per piece.

City, Friends, Technic and Star Wars are always there these days, and Creator is often there. I guess there are not many slots they can fill in without just listing all their themes.

Edited March 5, 2020 by MAB

[The Brick Boss]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

City, Friends, Technic and Star Wars are always there these days, and Creator is often there.

Yes Sir.... 

[TeriXeri]

In the infographic they say Classic as top 6, then in the Report they list Creator as top 5.

Edited March 5, 2020 by TeriXeri

[Toastie]

Just now, TeriXeri said:

In the infographic they say Classic as top 6, then in the Report they list Creator as top 5.

But you know what? Seeing "Classic" at all at any position better than 10 is very, very encouraging.

Best
Thorsten

[TeriXeri]

13 minutes ago, Toastie said:

But you know what? Seeing "Classic" at all at any position better than 10 is very, very encouraging.

True, I do like that they brought it back a few years ago, and do innovate with different types of sets like the light-bricks for 2020.

I do hope they'll move the theme into the direction of those 2018 sets that included minifigs/accesoires, and a bit less rainbow of colors.

 

Themed Classic sets could be a cool concept as well, with parts more specialized toward Castles/Spaceships/Pirates and into a more refined color scheme.

Those 2018 sets had minifigs with Castle, Pirates and Space accesoires and minibuilds across the sets, refering to those Classic themes.

Creator already doing it with the Pirate Ship , hope it follows up with some Space and Castle type version later.

 

 

Edited March 5, 2020 by TeriXeri

[The Brick Boss]

Castle was seen in 2013 and Pirates was seen in 2015. Space is under City now. 

[KotZ]

1 hour ago, Brandon Pea said:

Castle was seen in 2013 and Pirates was seen in 2015. Space is under City now. 

Realistic space is. As soon as we see aliens, it will be it's own true subtheme.

[MAB]

1 hour ago, TeriXeri said:

I do hope they'll move the theme into the direction of those 2018 sets that included minifigs/accesoires, and a bit less rainbow of colors.

 

I guess that's the thing here though. Classic doesn't mean old style sets, it just means "bucket sets" (or really cardboard box sets) of modern basic bricks in modern colours.

 

[dr_spock]

14 hours ago, meliander said:

So TLG announced the results for 2019 (quote from Brickset):

Top selling themes in no particular order were LEGO City, LEGO Creator, LEGO Friends, LEGO Technic, LEGO Classic and LEGO Star Wars.

The LEGO Harry Potter, LEGO Super Heroes (Marvel Avengers) and LEGO Disney Princess themes also performed strongly.

Seems like a lot of classic stuff to me :) I mean Friends is not classic, but Star Wars kinda is. I'm really happy with these results, to be honest.

I would consider Friends (2012-2017) before the 5 core minidolls got a "makeover" in 2018 as classic Friends. 

 

13 hours ago, Brandon Pea said:

As for Technic..I guess that mostly has to do with the fact that putting things on display has always been a popular trend. So Lego is taking part in the success. 

Technic has always been popular outside of North America. 

[The Brick Boss]

1 hour ago, dr_spock said:

Technic has always been popular outside of North America. 

Duh! LOL 

Other than the reason I stated above....why else would it sell so darn well? Though I do have to admit that I was pretty shocked. 

[ShaydDeGrai]

3 hours ago, Brandon Pea said:

Duh! LOL 

Other than the reason I stated above....why else would it sell so darn well? Though I do have to admit that I was pretty shocked. 

While there's a lot of overlap between the Technic and traditional System audiences, I think that Technic also has a pretty sizable "Technic only" audience as well.  While an extension to the traditional Lego System, Technic is really a head-to-head competitor in the Erector Set/Meccano play space.  Meccano and Erector sets beat Lego to the market by half a century (Meccano being invented by Frank Hornby in 1898 in the UK and Erector being (supposedly independently but very similar product wise) invented by A.C. Gilbert of Gilbert Toys USA in 1911).  Those were steel beams and axles with brass gears, all held together with actual machine screws and nuts (Gilbert even had to file for an exemption to stay in business during WWI because the government wanted to ban metal toys to free up material for the war effort - in the UK Meccano had to stop production during WWII for precisely the same reason).

Erector sets were THE number one construction toy on two continents for much of the early half of the 20th century and inspired a number of other construction sets along the same vein (the biggest probably being Tinkertoys - a wooden alternative)  It wasn't until Gilbert died in the 1960's, his company was absorbed by Ideal, and the new owners started cutting corners in the quality and strength of materials department that it's popularity really started to wane.  On the other side of the Pond, Meccano had similar problems having grown too fast too quickly and overextending themselves financially until they too were bought out by a company that sought to improve profit margins by cutting quality.  People still wanted that sort of construction toy but they wanted something with fewer sharp edges, was easier to work with and it wasn't made of flimsy plastic.  

While it's pure conjecture on my part, I strongly suspect that this dissatisfied Erector Set/Meccano audience growing up to have children of their own and complaining that their kids wouldn't have a the same sort of Erector Set experience they had had informed TLG's decision to introduce the Expert Builder series in 1977 (not to be confused with Creator Expert, this was actually an early Technic line).  The beam and pin construction was very much a sturdy plastic analog to the old Erector/Meccano style of building.  The new system introduced gears, dedicated motors and, over time, vastly exceeded the range of parts once supported by the Erector Set catalog.  Obviously it's compatible with traditional Lego, but as a construction toy it was really competing against the latest incarnations of Meccano (which eventually reorganized and bought the  Erector brand) and modern Erector competitors like K'Nex) not Megablocks or any of the many "clone blocks" that have cropped up since Lego's original patents expired.

So yes, I'm not surprised that Technic is a top seller nor am I surprised that its popularity may come as a shock to many 'traditional' Lego fans.  I know people who ONLY do Technic sets (I also know people who ONLY do robots with technic and mindstorms - so you have specialties within specialties) , it's a different style of building that also appeals to a different audience (in addition to its overlapping appeal to many).