LEGO IDEAS - The Medieval Blacksmith

[TheLegoDr]

I can assure you that sarcasm flew right over my head. Gotta love the written word 

[Niku]

On 1/19/2021 at 10:27 PM, Aanchir said:

Some of this is just inflation (MMV would cost around $120 and KJ would cost around $135 if they came out today, judging from the current value of the US dollar). But more importantly, this set is quite a bit more detailed than either Medieval Market Village or Kingdoms Joust. Note that both Medieval Market Village and Kingdoms Joust were 12+ sets, not 18+, and they used far fewer SNOT techniques, hinges, or mottled colors and textures than this set does. All their roofs were built from standard slope pieces, and all their floors or foundations were just a single plate thick. So regardless of their size and charm, they were closer to the building level of "Creator 3-in-1" than "Creator Expert".

And remember, even the year that Medieval Market Village first came out, that year's Modular Building (Fire Brigade) had a 50% higher price — even though it had far fewer minifigures or animals. This set is much closer to the Fire Brigade's level of complexity than it is to Medieval Market Village's, even though it's not quite as large (nor as expensive, after adjusting for inflation). So although this is considerably more expensive than previous Castle exclusives, that seems to be pretty much in line with its higher level of detail.

Plenty of people in this very thread have mentioned the elaborate detail of the original project as a major reason they supported it, so needless to say, LEGO had a strong incentive to maintain as much of that complexity as they could without any structural defects.

Yes, you are correct and I understand that from the start. I just wish Lego would have gave us maybe another horse on dark orange or nougat, or some chickens, or some wolfpack anything else of that WOW factor that would make from wanting this set to OMG I cant wait to get my hands on multiple of them. I know the tree could have been smaller if that meant another horse.
Thanks for your deep analysis and toughts is always good to read them.

Ps. I always have thinked that criticism is necessary to grow and improve so all this dialogue on this topic is good imo, of course there are ways to do that criticism.

[Lyichir]

1 hour ago, Niku said:

Yes, you are correct and I understand that from the start. I just wish Lego would have gave us maybe another horse on dark orange or nougat, or some chickens, or some wolfpack anything else of that WOW factor that would make from wanting this set to OMG I cant wait to get my hands on multiple of them. I know the tree could have been smaller if that meant another horse.
Thanks for your deep analysis and toughts is always good to read them.

Ps. I always have thinked that criticism is necessary to grow and improve so all this dialogue on this topic is good imo, of course there are ways to do that criticism.

As great as another horse color on top of the new tan recolor would be, even if the set included two horses instead of one for the carriage I imagine they would probably have gone for two horses of the same color both for aesthetic reasons and because it'd be a more efficient use of the budget for new parts.

[Niku]

I would like to know how Lego calculates their price/piece because that is key, on my percepction, that probably is incorrect, I dont see how a pair of horses(they dont use a new mold, just another color, yes there are colors more expensive than others), or maybe a pair of chickens are prohibitive for this set. Well at this stage I would have taken two equal tan horses. Just give us more Lego. Animals are always a big, big draw to a set, even if they are small or reprints.
Is the same of the perceived value, for $50 more you get the PoBB far more superior set.
I could bet if I give $200 for people to spend for a present: a father, a mother, casual buyer would prefer the ship rather than the blacksmith and the $50.
And in the end, the themes are not on the same level competing and the results may give a false impression of performance to the company that castle(even as popular) may not sell so well as a PoBB that is a success.
Just like on their fan vote, there are so many castle themes that are spread thin.
Oh well, lets cross fingers and hope for the best.

[zoth33]

I understand that people can see different things and want different things out of a set.  But for the life of me I don't understand why people want more animals in a blacksmith shop.  I could see if it were a farm, homestead, or something of that nature but not a blacksmith shop.  I can see criticism for getting more armor, weapons, etc.  And for getting more figs.  If I'm buying a blacksmith shop it's not for the animals it's for the build itself and maybe the figs which in this set I happen to really like the build and the figs.  

[Lord Insanity]

13 minutes ago, zoth33 said:

I understand that people can see different things and want different things out of a set.  But for the life of me I don't understand why people want more animals in a blacksmith shop.  I could see if it were a farm, homestead, or something of that nature but not a blacksmith shop.  I can see criticism for getting more armor, weapons, etc.  And for getting more figs.  If I'm buying a blacksmith shop it's not for the animals it's for the build itself and maybe the figs which in this set I happen to really like the build and the figs.  

I think the issue here is that people voted for the scene that the original submission painted and not the fact that it is a blacksmith shop specifically.  I think a lot of people were just as interested in the landscape and wildlife as they were the actual building.  One of the big draws of the idea (both the original and final production version) to me is the fact that the building is so useful for other things besides just being a blacksmith shop.  With some minor changes this could be almost any type of medieval building or indeed any building that uses similar architecture from pirate port towns to modern day legacy medieval buildings.  It is the best historical building parts pack in years.

Now don't get me wrong, I think the designer did a fantastic job of realizing an actual blacksmith shop, but that is somewhat secondary to what the original appeal of the submission was to many.  People wanted a catch all medieval themed set because we haven't had anything but scraps for a long time.  I would have happily bumped the price up to $200 if it meant getting more landscape and animals (like goats) to go with the set.  I certainly understand the decision to keep the price point at $150 and focus on the building though.  I am just glad we got that awesome apple tree and a tan horse.  (Seriously people look up what a real apple tree looks like, that is by far and away the best looking official apple tree build ever.)  But it isn't the fall foliage tree with goats under it that people voted for.

[zoth33]

Just now, Lord Insanity said:

I think the issue here is that people voted for the scene that the original submission painted and not the fact that it is a blacksmith shop specifically.  I think a lot of people were just as interested in the landscape and wildlife as they were the actual building.  One of the big draws of the idea (both the original and final production version) to me is the fact that the building is so useful for other things besides just being a blacksmith shop.  With some minor changes this could be almost any type of medieval building or indeed any building that uses similar architecture from pirate port towns to modern day legacy medieval buildings.  It is the best historical building parts pack in years.

Now don't get me wrong, I think the designer did a fantastic job of realizing an actual blacksmith shop, but that is somewhat secondary to what the original appeal of the submission was to many.  People wanted a catch all medieval themed set because we haven't had anything but scraps for a long time.  I would have happily bumped the price up to $200 if it meant getting more landscape and animals (like goats) to go with the set.  I certainly understand the decision to keep the price point at $150 and focus on the building though.  I am just glad we got that awesome apple tree and a tan horse.  (Seriously people look up what a real apple tree looks like, that is by far and away the best looking official apple tree build ever.)  But it isn't the fall foliage tree with goats under it that people voted for.

I know what people are saying it just amazes me that certain things like that are so much of an issue.  Believe me I would love some goats.  I only have the 2 from the village raid set.  Here's hoping there are some future castle sets with more animals for the people that really want them.  I just hope the black falcon torso's end up on B&P and I can buy a bunch so I can increase my army.  I also hope this set opens up for more castle sets in the future.  

[Niku]

44 minutes ago, zoth33 said:

I understand that people can see different things and want different things out of a set.  But for the life of me I don't understand why people want more animals in a blacksmith shop.  I could see if it were a farm, homestead, or something of that nature but not a blacksmith shop.  I can see criticism for getting more armor, weapons, etc.  And for getting more figs.  If I'm buying a blacksmith shop it's not for the animals it's for the build itself and maybe the figs which in this set I happen to really like the build and the figs.  

Actually animals are very important in a medieval setting, for example just lets take a look at the build on the frontpage, it wouldnt be the same without the animals, even if the main focus is the tower.
Animals alone open some very good posibilities for building, as for another example I remember the time I had to decide(I am still not a millionaire haha, I have a budget) either to get the Medieval Mill Raid (goats, horse, chickens) or Prince of Persia Alamut Palace and race (camel, ostrich) and got the later. I can build now on a eastern environment and add some wildlife as complement to the build but unfortunately lacking on the other important animals department.

Just to be clear.
I like the set very much and has grown on me over time,my criticism could tell otherwise but I do like the set, and will buy it. I just wish Lego would had spent all the powder on here.

[zoth33]

21 minutes ago, Niku said:

Actually animals are very important in a medieval setting, for example just lets take a look at the build on the frontpage, it wouldnt be the same without the animals, even if the main focus is the tower.
Animals alone open some very good posibilities for building, as for another example I remember the time I had to decide(I am still not a millionaire haha, I have a budget) either to get the Medieval Mill Raid (goats, horse, chickens) or Prince of Persia Alamut Palace and race (camel, ostrich) and got the later. I can build now on a eastern environment and add some wildlife as complement to the build but unfortunately lacking on the other important animals department.

Just to be clear.
I like the set very much and has grown on me over time,my criticism could tell otherwise but I do like the set, and will buy it. I just wish Lego would had spent all the powder on here.

I'm not a millionaire either.  There are some options to buy animals without getting sets, ie bricklink or bricks and pieces have a lot to offer and for good prices.  I would love to have a lot more pieces than I have to build the builds I want to do but it's going to take time for me to get all the things I want.  I'm planning out some large castle/fantasy builds, but I don't have enough slopes, plates, bricks in general to do what I want.  Yes animals are nice, I do have a camel and  I buy sets that have them when I can and bricklink or b&p others.  Currently I don't have any cows that is next on my list and I also want that great white shark but I usually try to order as much as I can on one brinklink order so I'll see what I can find.  So right now I just get what I can when I have the money.  But I will be definitely be getting this set it is very nice.  

[Lyichir]

On 1/24/2021 at 6:14 PM, Niku said:

I would like to know how Lego calculates their price/piece because that is key, on my percepction, that probably is incorrect, I dont see how a pair of horses(they dont use a new mold, just another color, yes there are colors more expensive than others), or maybe a pair of chickens are prohibitive for this set. Well at this stage I would have taken two equal tan horses. Just give us more Lego. Animals are always a big, big draw to a set, even if they are small or reprints.
Is the same of the perceived value, for $50 more you get the PoBB far more superior set.
I could bet if I give $200 for people to spend for a present: a father, a mother, casual buyer would prefer the ship rather than the blacksmith and the $50.
And in the end, the themes are not on the same level competing and the results may give a false impression of performance to the company that castle(even as popular) may not sell so well as a PoBB that is a success.
Just like on their fan vote, there are so many castle themes that are spread thin.
Oh well, lets cross fingers and hope for the best.

I don't want to belabor this, because it seems like people here tend to find it worthy of mockery when someone actually takes the process of how Lego does business seriously, but since you seem genuinely curious... the reason including a pair of new horse recolors rather than just a single one would be more expensive is that introducing recolors may not add substantially to the material cost (the plastic itself) or the machining cost (the cost of a new mold), but would add another logistical cost (the cost of producing another part separately, inventorying it separately, and storing it separately for things like Bricks & Pieces and Lego's replacement part service). Individually, these logistical expenditures may not seem like a lot, but added up they could quickly get out of control if no care was taken to limit the introduction of new elements (as was one factor in Lego's financial difficulties in the early 2000s).

So different sets or themes get their own budgets for such things. That budget varies from set to set and theme to theme, and we've never gotten any specific numbers provided externally, but in general full themes get a higher budget shared across all sets, versus "standalone" sets that make do with fewer, and sets produced in higher quantities (like cheaper sets that get mass retail releases) get a bigger budget for things like new elements (since the cost is spread out more), while high-dollar exclusive sets get a lower budget. And of course, despite these themes and sets being budgeted separately, there's absolutely bargaining and borrowing from one department to another—an example in this set is the new 1x3 inverted half arch brick in black, which is new to this set but the designer seems to have borrowed from a larger theme like Ninjago.

[Niku]

I must admit that truly never considered the inventorying, storing, and replacement departments.
Thanks for that information.

[Merlo]

When will this be in regular stores?

[GeoBrick]

In my country, usually 6 months to a year after release on the Lego Store.

Edited January 29, 2021 by GeoBrick
wrong initial information

[Niku]

6 hours ago, Merlo said:

When will this be in regular stores?

It is said 1st of febreuary for VIP
On stores to follow suit quickly would be my guess.

[GeoBrick]

2 hours ago, Niku said:

It is said 1st of febreuary for VIP
On stores to follow suit quickly would be my guess.

Ah? Is the February 1 release for VIP's then? I thought it was for every customer at that date?

[Niku]

2 hours ago, GeoBrick said:

Ah? Is the February 1 release for VIP's then? I thought it was for every customer at that date?

Yes it is for everyone. My mistake.
The 2,164 piece set will be available at LEGO.com on 1st February priced at $149.99 / CA$199.99 / €146.99 / £134.99 / AU$249.99.
 

[Merlo]

Yes, that's why I'm asking. It'd be great if it was for everyone. It's been several days already since 71741 is available for purchase in my local store (with delivery moved to February), but no trace of 21325 and they are not responding to my inquiries. If it's coming soon, it would make sense for me to get both at once.

[Klaus-Dieter]

Without doubts the house looks nice. Plus mainly the carriage, the minifigures and the new colored horse are brilliant.

But, like I already feared, this set is not of interest for me:

• over-detailed exterior looks more like BlueBrixx or Cobi than like Lego
• closed back and even no hinge mechanism to have two houses with open backs (like e. g. in 10193)
• because of these the set doesn't fit together with 10193 and the Kingdoms sets
• 150 Euros for only a 2,5 floors big building is usury

Edited January 30, 2021 by Klaus-Dieter

[Merlo]

I'm the opposite, I'd like 10193 remade in the style of 21325, since this very much looks like 3739 anyway.

No hinge is disappointing. Price per piece seems allrite?

[Hive]

2 hours ago, Klaus-Dieter said:

Without doubts the house looks nice. Plus mainly the carriage, the minifigures and the new colored horse are brilliant.

But, like I already feared, this set is not of interest for me:

• over-detailed exterior looks more like BlueBrixx or Cobi than like Lego
• closed back and even no hinge mechanism to have two houses with open backs (like e. g. in 10193)
• because of these the set doesn't fit together with 10193 and the Kingdoms sets
• 150 Euros for only a 2,5 floors big building is usury

As much as I love 10193, this set would have had to be "dumbed down" a great deal in detail compared with other Ideas sets to fit with it.

To me, I think it's a bonus that the set is build more like a modular than to fit the old hinge style. I'll be trying to rebuild the 10193 buildings to fit with this set when I get it.

[Merlo]

1 hour ago, Hive said:

I'll be trying to rebuild the 10193 buildings to fit with this set when I get it. 

I'd love to see the results, sounds fun!

[Modal]

Man I would love to have an entire modular line in the style of this Blacksmith. Include a super detailed castle alongside more village buildings like this and you could make an awesome town. 

[Ogist]

That would be great. The only thing that would be difficult to do is the size of the castle. It would have to be larger than Disney's, which means it would have at least 6,000 parts. 

[Shroffy123]

Can't wait for this release. Hopefully this leads to a future castle wave!

[thekeeperofthereaper]

ill be up late tonight to buy it the instant it becomes available as if i dont trusting me the scummy ebay scalpers will get the lot

it happened when i went to order the haunted house i had to wait around 2 months