Darnok Posted October 22, 2018 (edited) While the Wayfarer Trading Company had shipyards of their own, those were only able to produce smaller classes. Even the Royal Shipyards had its limits. So when in need of larger ships of line, it was Quinnsville that was able to help. Their shipyards were able to provide... ... the "WTC Blackbird"! Meant to protect the growing trade network of the WTC, the "WTC Blackbird" was designed with speed, maneuverability and firepower in mind. Anybody foolish enough to attack it would curse that decision! =============================================================================== Built by @LM71Blackbird, this class 7 6 ship will bolster the WTC fleet. Edited October 23, 2018 by Drunknok Name change and stuff. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kwatchi Posted October 22, 2018 A gorgeous LDD vessel. It may be a bit short for a 7 though. Check here for a rule of thumb. To make matters a big murkier, about half the class 7 warships have been two deckers in Era 2. Dreamchaser Bruyant HRS Ardent @Legostone @Bregir, you guys have a though on this? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Legostone Posted October 23, 2018 12 minutes ago, Kwatchi said: A gorgeous LDD vessel. It may be a bit short for a 7 though. Check here for a rule of thumb. To make matters a big murkier, about half the class 7 warships have been two deckers in Era 2. Dreamchaser Bruyant HRS Ardent @Legostone @Bregir, you guys have a though on this? I think class 6 would be fitting a tad better. Most class 7 vessels currently are 2 deckers or very large frigates of 28+ guns. Going with the "sleek" example here - pretty sure I'm counting 5 midsections there, but the vessel is still kept compact and fairly low. Ship looks good though, though I would've liked a more elaborate stern and bow, I know @LM71Blackbird can do that if he wants to I'll recommend starting the headrails further down on the bow on such a low vessel though - La Comete's headrails start 2 plates above the prefab piece, and the hull extends 7 studs above that still... No open gunports? Not enough budget left for some salute shots? Glad to see an active crew aboard! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kai NRG Posted October 23, 2018 Real nice LDD ship, the sails in particular are top notch! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darnok Posted October 23, 2018 Concerning the size: we asked @LM71Blackbird for a class 7, and this is what he provided. It does have five midsections, so qualifies. I see no reason to "downgrade" it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bregir Posted October 23, 2018 A fine frigate, @LM71Blackbird . You have trimmed up both rigging and hull a bit, and I like how you have made quarterdeck railings transition into the lower hull. Can we get a close up of the crowsnests? A few, hopefully useful, suggestions: I would have loved to see a few more pictures. Here is only one, and in a rather small scale, so it is hard to make out details. Bigger pictures (800x600 are the eurobricks guidelines, I believe) and from different angles and of different details would be nice. Look up some ship plans or pictures of old ships to get a closer idea of details, lines, etc. for some more fine tuning. Try to build in more of a sheer (hull curve) and tumblehome in your next vessel. Your current ship is a bit too "straightlined" for my taste Work a bit with beakhead and headrails, as it gives more life to the bow Your courses (lower sails) should have no lower yardarm, and fly with their lower edge about minifig head-height. Generally, I am very impressed with your brick built sails, but a few tweaks would make them stand out better :) Differentiation - I would like to see you try to move a bit away from your current "style". It is fine to have your own recognisable style, but I feel like your ships would benefit by standing out more. Right now, some of them looks almost like versions of the same design. All in all a very nice frigate, though. 34 minutes ago, Drunknok said: Concerning the size: we asked @LM71Blackbird for a class 7, and this is what he provided. It does have five midsections, so qualifies. I see no reason to "downgrade" it. The guidelines in the rules are clear: Class 6: 4 mid sections for multiple decks, 5 for single decked vessels Class 7: 5 for Ships of the line or galleons, 6 for heavy frigates Further, looking at the archetypes, Reaper's Bounty does not compare to the class 7 Margot, but quite well to the class 6 - Alejandro de Vargas. In short, she is a class 6. For everyone's sake, we do not want class creep. If you are not happy with what LM71 delivered, you may sort that out between you. I am certain he can find other buyers for such a fine frigate, should the WTC not want to keep her, or will be willing to offer a discount or similar. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darnok Posted October 23, 2018 10 minutes ago, Bregir said: The guidelines in the rules are clear: Class 6: 4 mid sections for multiple decks, 5 for single decked vessels Class 7: 5 for Ships of the line or galleons, 6 for heavy frigates Indeed they are. This ship is clearly a galleon, has five midsections, and thus is a class 7. There is no ambiguity in this case. As for more pictures: they are in the works, and will be added to the OP once they are finished. We just wanted to have this one up and licensed in time for the upcoming MRCA turn. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bregir Posted October 23, 2018 Just now, Drunknok said: Indeed they are. This ship is clearly a galleon, has five midsections, and thus is a class 7. There is no ambiguity in this case. She is a single decked vessel. Now three members of leadership (@Kwatchi, @Legostone, and myself) have given their informed opinion that she is a class 6, and referred you to examples and to the rules, and I ask you kindly to adhere to that. If you want to contest it, please bring it up with the Naval Licensing and Prize Court. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bodi Posted October 23, 2018 She doesn't look like a galleon, she's rigged like a full rigged ship and her straight lines makes her resemble to the ships at the end of age of sail, and as Bregir said, she's a single deck ship, the weather deck does not count. So class 6 should be a fitting class. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darnok Posted October 23, 2018 So "leadership" does not even go by its own rules. Fine, I will keep that in mind. @Legostone Please unlicense the "WTC Reapers Bounty" and return the license fee to the account of the WTC. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LM71Blackbird Posted October 23, 2018 @Bregir, @Kwatchi, @Legostone, @Bodi Thank you for both the compliments and criticism. As to the size of the vessel, I must not understand the classification of multiple decks... To me this ship has 2 decks and the right number of midsections for a class 7... but this must be incorrect? 5 hours ago, Bregir said: A fine frigate, @LM71Blackbird . You have trimmed up both rigging and hull a bit, and I like how you have made quarterdeck railings transition into the lower hull. Can we get a close up of the crowsnests? A few, hopefully useful, suggestions: I would have loved to see a few more pictures. Here is only one, and in a rather small scale, so it is hard to make out details. Bigger pictures (800x600 are the eurobricks guidelines, I believe) and from different angles and of different details would be nice. Look up some ship plans or pictures of old ships to get a closer idea of details, lines, etc. for some more fine tuning. Try to build in more of a sheer (hull curve) and tumblehome in your next vessel. Your current ship is a bit too "straightlined" for my taste Work a bit with beakhead and headrails, as it gives more life to the bow Your courses (lower sails) should have no lower yardarm, and fly with their lower edge about minifig head-height. Generally, I am very impressed with your brick built sails, but a few tweaks would make them stand out better :) Differentiation - I would like to see you try to move a bit away from your current "style". It is fine to have your own recognisable style, but I feel like your ships would benefit by standing out more. Right now, some of them looks almost like versions of the same design. All in all a very nice frigate, though. The guidelines in the rules are clear: Class 6: 4 mid sections for multiple decks, 5 for single decked vessels Class 7: 5 for Ships of the line or galleons, 6 for heavy frigates Further, looking at the archetypes, Reaper's Bounty does not compare to the class 7 Margot, but quite well to the class 6 - Alejandro de Vargas. In short, she is a class 6. For everyone's sake, we do not want class creep. If you are not happy with what LM71 delivered, you may sort that out between you. I am certain he can find other buyers for such a fine frigate, should the WTC not want to keep her, or will be willing to offer a discount or similar. More pictures are coming! I just got back from Israel about 2 1/2 weeks ago and I have been out of town for another 10 days. I just wasn't able to supply more pictures in between packing for two trips. I have intentions for bigger and better ships in the future, and will spend more time in research! Thank you for the suggestions! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Legostone Posted October 23, 2018 25 minutes ago, LM71Blackbird said: Thank you for both the compliments and criticism. As to the size of the vessel, I must not understand the classification of multiple decks... To me this ship has 2 decks and the right number of midsections for a class 7... but this must be incorrect? In this context: Open Deck: 1 deck: 2 Decks: Seeing this topic pop up multiple times, with different people (including others having issues with my picked class), I have a feeling we may need to revisit the guidelines or get together a small panel of non-leadership members to decide on ship level. If any of you have any particular suggestions, either write them down somewhere in one of the public threads (lets not derail this one further) or PM me and I'll forward it. I would rather have everyone be happy with the system then this what we have right now. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mesabi Posted October 23, 2018 Hmm... disappointing. On the plus side, we have a fine class 6 to join our fleet, courtesy of the fine @LM71Blackbird. It would be nice to have a more updated "About Ships" page, I had some confusion a while back due to the photos used, and I'm not sure if it's been updated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LM71Blackbird Posted October 23, 2018 @Legostone I see... thank you, the pictures help clear up some confusion for me. I would be interested in joining a team like that, I believe that would help further clarify things for me as well. @Mesabi, thank you! 17 hours ago, Kai NRG said: Real nice LDD ship, the sails in particular are top notch! 18 hours ago, Kwatchi said: A gorgeous LDD vessel. It may be a bit short for a 7 though. Check here for a rule of thumb. To make matters a big murkier, about half the class 7 warships have been two deckers in Era 2. Dreamchaser Bruyant HRS Ardent @Legostone @Bregir, you guys have a though on this? Thank you very much both of you! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Bregir Posted October 23, 2018 3 hours ago, Legostone said: get together a small panel of non-leadership members to decide on ship level. This is exactly what the naval licensing and prize court is. And we should not start revising the levels now. 3 hours ago, Legostone said: have a feeling we may need to revisit the guidelines o We should definitely look at clarifying them, as apparently, they are prone to misunderstanding. I will say again, though, that the archetypes are the "standard" to measure against. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roadmonkeytj Posted October 23, 2018 (edited) @Drunknok @Mesabi A fine ship the WTC has acquired @LM71Blackbird While the class debate is unsettling she is a fine class 7,6,7,6 .... Ship lol One of these days You will have to break down your sail treatment for me... I tried a bit on Rahab's Gambit and it looks impressive but I was unhappy with my square sails so I left them off lol. @Legostone @Bregir As far as the rules clarifications. I think what is there worked for a while. I think adding three pictures to each example would help if available. 1) Waterline model/ brick built hull 2) Prefab hulls 3)Real world example. I think having these three reference photos (if not in the table then a link to a larger thread with more examples of that class) would help to clear alot of the confusion. I myself have struggled with the Clarifications. I'm not suggesting a rewrite of the class I think they work quite well, just the reference materials. I definitely think a couple real world examples with Lego examples if available would clear alot of the error. Edited October 23, 2018 by Roadmonkeytj Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Darnok Posted October 23, 2018 Licensed as a class 6, under the new name "WTC Blackbird". Many thanks to @Capt Wolf and @Legostone for reacting so quickly! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LM71Blackbird Posted October 23, 2018 45 minutes ago, Roadmonkeytj said: @LM71Blackbird While the class debate is unsettling she is a fine class 7,6,7,6 .... Ship lol One of these days You will have to break down your sail treatment for me... I tried a bit on Rahab's Gambit and it looks impressive but I was unhappy with my square sails so I left them off lol. Thanks! Sails are... fun... they can be time consuming, but they add a nice look to the model. 40 minutes ago, Drunknok said: Licensed as a class 6, under the new name "WTC Blackbird". Many thanks to @Capt Wolf and @Legostone for reacting so quickly! May the mighty Blackbird sink many of pirate ships! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Kwatchi Posted October 23, 2018 3 hours ago, Roadmonkeytj said: One of these days You will have to break down your sail treatment for me... I tried a bit on Rahab's Gambit and it looks impressive but I was unhappy with my square sails so I left them off lol. @Bregir I have to agree with this. I can't figure out what you did from this pic unfortunately. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LM71Blackbird Posted October 24, 2018 1 hour ago, Kwatchi said: I have to agree with this. I can't figure out what you did from this pic unfortunately. Maybe one day I'll do a tutorial on it... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Roadmonkeytj Posted October 24, 2018 16 hours ago, LM71Blackbird said: Maybe one day I'll do a tutorial on it... Or a link to an Ldd file with a sail in it.... Hint hint nudge nudge wink wink. Lol Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LM71Blackbird Posted October 24, 2018 2 hours ago, Roadmonkeytj said: Or a link to an Ldd file with a sail in it.... Hint hint nudge nudge wink wink. Lol I believe that could be arranged... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
