Imperial Officers Mafia - Day Four

[KotZ]

11 hours ago, mediumsnowman said:

Well, I’m just going to lay it all out on the table. My cryptic warning to the vig last night was because I am the Loyalist Blocker. 

I blocked Captain Fenton Night 1 on a hunch, mostly a stab in the dark. I blocked Admiral Motti Night 2 since I was pretty sure Ozzel was going to flip town. I attempted to block Captain Fenton again last night, but was unsuccessful. 

I am afraid my post worrying about gettin vigkilled clued the scum into my position as a PR and blocked me, which is why my action was unsuccessful. With apparently no scum kill last night they can then claim blocker and get me lynched, framing me as the scum killer. With likely 1 or maybe 2 scum left they must be getting desperate! 

Hopefully this blocking data helps us narrow down the last scum, and thrwart what I assume to be their nefarious plan to extend the game and get a town PR lynched by claiming first. 

10 hours ago, Khscarymovie4 said:

I think you did just help us catch a scum, yourself, unless there are two town blockers in this game. I am the loyalist town blocker. I blocked the late traitor Jellico on night 1 and was told I was successful, reason for that block was because he is an experienced officer and hard to read. Night 2 I blocked Piett, because her post about seeing what the day results in the morning struck me as scummy. This was also successful. Night 3 I blocked you, you were the most scummiest yesterday so it seemed logical, I was also successful. 

10 hours ago, mediumsnowman said:

Ding ding ding! Found the last scummo. You must be very desperate. Can we vote yet?

It all makes sense now. Needa has been sitting in the back all game and going with the flow - perfect place for scum to hide. He’s got to be very desperate now - desperate enough to counterclaim in the face of insurmountable odds. There was no scum kill last night because he was busy blocking me - perfect frame job. Except the scum didn’t anticipate me claiming first. Checkmate. Game over.

Oh no, now this hurts my head.

1 hour ago, mostlytechnic said:

Second, I'm not taking a side yet in the Thrawn/Needa battle. Both have possible tales at this point. So here's a thought - lynch one and have the vig take out the other. If there's only 1 scum left, we win. The only way it fails is if there's 2 scum left - in which case we've killed off a scum and lost the town blocker, but we're still ahead in numbers. Anyone see a flaw in my thinking here? I suppose if there's 2 scum left (or if the last scum gets to have kill AND block abilities, which would not be normal) they'd have a chance of blocking the vig, but it'd be slim.

This is a great idea, and while if we are wrong and lynch the wrong person, like you said we're still ahead. I don' have a problem with this strategy.

31 minutes ago, mediumsnowman said:

If I were scum, why would I stick my neck out by claiming first?

Lynch Needa today, and lynch me tomorrow if he flips town, which he won’t. I’m hesitant to offer myself up to the vig since I know I’m town, and if there’s another scum or heaven forbid a third party the block will be a very useful night action for the town to have. 

I blocked Fenton again Night 3 because his vote for Tarkin seemed very weak. I expressed this suspicion in PM to Admiral Motti - he can confirm that. 

I still don't know who to believe for this.

[Peanuts]

1 hour ago, mostlytechnic said:

For what it's worth.... (stating this as told to me, from the viewpoint that Thrawn is claiming town) Thrawn contacted me on day 3, since Ozzel flipping town made him assume I was townie. Said he'd blocked Fenton night 1 and me night 2, and told me he would block fenton again as we went into night 3. Told me day 4 he was blocked on that. So I can verify that he was stating this before announcing today. He asked me ahead of time about claiming publicly today, and I said sure, since there's likely only 1 or 2 scum left, so let's get some info out there and see what happens. 

First, I'm currently not assuming 2 scum left. Last night Komec could have had the scum kill ability and so Needa could be a scum blocker. So the scum having a block ability last night doesn't require there to STILL be 2 left. but there could be. 

Second, I'm not taking a side yet in the Thrawn/Needa battle. Both have possible tales at this point. So here's a thought - lynch one and have the vig take out the other. If there's only 1 scum left, we win. The only way it fails is if there's 2 scum left - in which case we've killed off a scum and lost the town blocker, but we're still ahead in numbers. Anyone see a flaw in my thinking here? I suppose if there's 2 scum left (or if the last scum gets to have kill AND block abilities, which would not be normal) they'd have a chance of blocking the vig, but it'd be slim.

We'll be ahead in numbers no matter what we do, at least relatively. The question is what's the up and downside to killing the claimed blocker we don't lynch today. If there is only one traitor left, there is no downside to killing the other blocker, and the downside to leaving one alive is they might have the ability to convert. If there is one traitor left without any conversions, we've got this in the bag anyway. If there is more than one traitor left, there is no real downside to leaving the other blocker alive for another day, but the risk that we might have to go on without a town blocker if we kill them. That's not terrible, since blocker usually isn't the most useful PR anyway, but also far from great. Does that make sense?

1 hour ago, mostlytechnic said:

I'm gonna let the two conflicting tales percolate in the brain for a while.... 

Looking at voting history... (ignoring the mess of day 1 at this point)

Day 2, Thrawn voted for me, then Daala, then Piett. Needa voted for Daala and then put the 5th vote onto Jellico as that train was building. 

Day 3, Thrawn voted for Tarkin to start the day off and stayed there. Needa voted for Thrawn and stayed there. 

So would a theoretical scummy Needa vote for Jellico when there was a train building there? If they thought they could split the vote enough, it'd be a great move. But it also had the risk of lynching a teammate if the vote kept building. At that time, Komec hadn't voted yet and the other two known scum were voting for Daala, so splitting the vote up was still pretty doable. In fact, after Needa's vote, the next votes placed were Jellico voting Piett and then Komec voting Ozzel, which ended up building to his lynch. So I can buy the possibility of Needa being scum based on those voting patterns. But it also works if Needa was town. 

I wouldn't be surprised if both their tales were true, with the obvious exception that one is a traitor. I think it stands out that Thrawn so far has only voted for people who I believe or know to be town, Shelby, you, Dalla, Piett, Tarkin. Regarding the voting pattern of Needa on Day 2, I don't see how it would help in splitting the vote, since before his vote change it was 4 votes for Daala and 3 for Jellico, which he just reversed, so arguably the votes were split the same afterwards. If anything, I'd argue there was more momentum for a Jellico lynch than for a Daala lynch, so if anything it made a successful lynch more likely. If i had been scum at that point, I think I'd have kept my vote on Daala.

1 hour ago, mediumsnowman said:

If I were scum, why would I stick my neck out by claiming first?

Lynch Needa today, and lynch me tomorrow if he flips town, which he won’t. I’m hesitant to offer myself up to the vig since I know I’m town, and if there’s another scum or heaven forbid a third party the block will be a very useful night action for the town to have. 

I blocked Fenton again Night 3 because his vote for Tarkin seemed very weak. I expressed this suspicion in PM to Admiral Motti - he can confirm that. 

Because with the Grand Moff dead, you are the next on the chopping block?

[Sandy]

I'm in favor of lynching Thrawn today (keeping up with yesterday's discussion), and Needa tomorrow if Thrawn flips town and Needa survives the night.

It's just the most logical thing to do, as those Vulcans mentioned on the first day would say (probably, how would I know really?). 

[mediumsnowman]

Lynch Needa today. Hold off on killing me until we see the flip - hint, he’s scum. 

If he’s town lynch me tomorrow. If I’m the last scum what difference will one extra night make? 

Needa will flip scum and we’ll want my block in the unlikely case the game doesn’t end with his death. 

[Khscarymovie4]

2 hours ago, mediumsnowman said:

If I were scum, why would I stick my neck out by claiming first?

Lynch Needa today, and lynch me tomorrow if he flips town, which he won’t. I’m hesitant to offer myself up to the vig since I know I’m town, and if there’s another scum or heaven forbid a third party the block will be a very useful night action for the town to have. 

I blocked Fenton again Night 3 because his vote for Tarkin seemed very weak. I expressed this suspicion in PM to Admiral Motti - he can confirm that. 

"If I were scum, why would I stick my neck our by claiming first?" 

Because you were most likely going to be lynched today, so claiming something would make the town trust you more. Also if the real blocker claimed (me) you would be able to use this argument. 

I also offer myself up to the vig if Thrawn is lynched today, though I doubt it will be needed as hopefully this is the final scum. Usually around 1/4 of the players are scum so that would put us at 4 scummies. 

[Tariq j]

What I thought was that Komec was the scum killer and last scum (Needa or Thrawn) was the blocker, Komec died so the killing ability has been passed down, BUT (and it’s a big but like on a Bantha) we know both blockers tried block last night, and was Piet said earlier there must be some kind of conversion/kill action so I’m thinking there could be one other scum left.

27 minutes ago, mediumsnowman said:

If he’s town lynch me tomorrow. If I’m the last scum what difference will one extra night make? 

A lot of difference, a successful conversion could take place, a crucial PR could be killed. Again, you seem very desperate for the lynch to quickly be over and done with. But there’s a lot more to discuss here. My biggest worry is the former, it’s Day four now, so we each have our own town/scum reads on most of the players, but if a town player does happened to be converted that all of the town reads can go out of the window.

[mostlytechnic]

2 hours ago, mediumsnowman said:

I blocked Fenton again Night 3 because his vote for Tarkin seemed very weak. I expressed this suspicion in PM to Admiral Motti - he can confirm that. 

Yep, he did tell me ahead of time he planned to block Fenton. 

As for the other question - assuming we lynch one of the claimers, do we vig kill the second or wait and lynch them tomorrow if needed? 

Vig kill - Pros: they're both gone, so no more debate over which is which. And town wins, assuming 1 scum left.

Vig Kill - Cons: No town blocker tonight, in case there is another scum out there. 

Wait and lynch the second one tomorrow - Pros: Still might win tonight, if we lynch right. If not, we have another day of discussion and a pretty clear plan. If we lynch correctly and there's still another scum out there, we have a blocker tonight

Wait and lynch the second one tomorrow - Cons: If we pick wrong, scum have tonight to kill someone or convert or whatever abilities they have.

 

Piett - have you confirmed that Isard was NOT a vig kill on night 1? Cause if Isard was a vig kill, then we've had zero scum kills and that would say to me that they MUST have a conversion ability instead of a typical kill. If Isard was a scum kill, then we've gotten very lucky with blocks/protects and they may or may not have a convert. 

11 hours ago, Sandy said:

I haven't heard of an investigator yet. We might've lost one with Isard although she should've claimed to someone before the lynch if that was the case. Taking converting into consideration I would expect there to be one to three traitors left, but of course we have no way of knowing for sure.

Just one correction - since Isard wasn't lynched, how should she have known to claim to someone? Claiming on night 1 would be foolish. 

[Peanuts]

22 minutes ago, Tariq j said:

What I thought was that Komec was the scum killer and last scum (Needa or Thrawn) was the blocker, Komec died so the killing ability has been passed down, BUT (and it’s a big but like on a Bantha) we know both blockers tried block last night, and was Piet said earlier there must be some kind of conversion/kill action so I’m thinking there could be one other scum left.

We only know that Needa used a block last night, we don't know if Thrawn speaks the truth or not. If Thrawn is the last traitor, he should be able to to kill/convert and conventionally that means losing the ability to block, if he ever had it. What's to stop him from claiming he blocked me to Admiral Motti, but in reality kill someone else entirely?

At this point I feel fairly sure that Thrawn is the traitor, not Needa, so I'd say we lynch Thrawn and save Needa up for tomorrow.

[LegoRacer1]

I can confirm Thrawn as Town, I investigated him last night. He did show up as a loyalist!

[Khscarymovie4]

1 minute ago, LegoRacer1 said:

I can confirm Thrawn as Town, I investigated him last night. He did show up as a loyalist!

Are you an investigator, this is news to me. Thrawn could be the godfather and showed up as loyalist, or you could be scum trying to help your buddy. 

[LegoRacer1]

1 minute ago, Khscarymovie4 said:

Are you an investigator, this is news to me. Thrawn could be the godfather and showed up as loyalist, or you could be scum trying to help your buddy. 

I am Investigator! The only other things to note is that Greer is a neutral. If he is a Godfather than thats is something to note. Either way I say we do lynch Needa first.

[Forresto]

Wouldn't it be safer to lynch Needa and have the Vigilante kill Thrawn, sortve a nuke from orbit is the only way to be sure kindve deals?

If there is only one scum left we win.

If there is more then one traitor and Thrawn flips scum then we know Veers is lying and if Needa flips town then Piett comes under suspicion.

6 minutes ago, LegoRacer1 said:

I am Investigator! The only other things to note is that Greer is a neutral. If he is a Godfather than thats is something to note. Either way I say we do lynch Needa first.

Is there anyone who can corroborate this? 

I'm inclined to believe you for today since we'll know the truth of your allegience either way tomorrow. 

[Peanuts]

10 minutes ago, LegoRacer1 said:

I can confirm Thrawn as Town, I investigated him last night. He did show up as a loyalist!

This came out of nowhere. This is either the one of the weirdest and most desparate defense I have ever seen or you are telling the truth.

6 minutes ago, Khscarymovie4 said:

Are you an investigator, this is news to me. Thrawn could be the godfather and showed up as loyalist, or you could be scum trying to help your buddy. 

Both viable explanations. Suddenly I am very much in favor of lynching Needa. Frankly, I'm not opposed to killing Thrawn as well, it would test the investigator claim as well.

7 minutes ago, LegoRacer1 said:

I am Investigator! The only other things to note is that Greer is a neutral. If he is a Godfather than thats is something to note. Either way I say we do lynch Needa first.

That's also interesting. Admiral Greer, can you confirm or deny this? I don't rightly see how a traitor would find out about a neutral's allegiance.

Another thing to note: If Needa is scum, which seems likely now, what do we make of the fact that he definitely blocked Thrawn? It means he either has both a blocking and a killing/converting ability, or there is at least one other traitor.

[KotZ]

The full power of this station should be used on them, like Shelby said. It's a good way to be sure. Lynch Thrawn or Needa, doesn't matter, we kill the other in the night, no? And Fenton brings up a good point about Greer.

[Tariq j]

1 minute ago, Peanuts said:

 

That's also interesting. Admiral Greer, can you confirm or deny this? I don't rightly see how a traitor would find out about a neutral's allegiance.

Well, it appears I have some explaining to do. Dellus is telling the truth and so I believe he is genuinely the town investigator. I’m a survivalist, I’m not a godfather, serial Killer, or anything like that. In any case, I feel Thrawn being a Godafther seems like a very plausible idea. 

[Sandy]

52 minutes ago, mostlytechnic said:

 Piett - have you confirmed that Isard was NOT a vig kill on night 1? Cause if Isard was a vig kill, then we've had zero scum kills and that would say to me that they MUST have a conversion ability instead of a typical kill. If Isard was a scum kill, then we've gotten very lucky with blocks/protects and they may or may not have a convert. 

Just one correction - since Isard wasn't lynched, how should she have known to claim to someone? Claiming on night 1 would be foolish. 

The vigilante said they didn't do anything on the first night.

And yes, I indeed remembered wrong the way Isard went down.  That explains the lack of claiming...

[Forresto]

*I said Veers but I meant Dellus, those bucket helmets and vapid expressions blend together.

The safest thing to do is for us to lynch Needa and for the vigilante to kill Thrawn. It'll potentially undo Dellus or Piett.

~

Well if they do have a converting ability how does that work?

Is it every other night or do they have the option to kill or convert each night? If it's the latter option its possible the scum weren't blocked but instead replenished their numbers the moment they knew Ozzel was dead which would explain the lack of the scum killing the previous two nights.

[Tariq j]

1 minute ago, KotZ said:

The full power of this station should be used on them, like Shelby said. It's a good way to be sure. Lynch Thrawn or Needa, doesn't matter, we kill the other in the night, no? And Fenton brings up a good point about Greer.

Ideally it would be better to lynch the scum player first, like I said earlier an extra night could mean a conversion, the killing of a town PR etc. Even if a player is killed during the night there action still goes through. Personally I would want to lynch Needa and then vig kill Thrawn. 

1 minute ago, Forresto said:

*I said Veers but I meant Dellus, those bucket helmets and vapid expressions blend together.

The safest thing to do is for us to lynch Needa and for the vigilante to kill Thrawn. It'll potentially undo Dellus or Piett.

~

Well if they do have a converting ability how does that work?

Is it every other night or do they have the option to kill or convert each night? If it's the latter option its possible the scum weren't blocked but instead replenished their numbers the moment they knew Ozzel was dead which would explain the lack of the scum killing the previous two nights.

In a previous meeting Shield VS Hydra, I believe the scum were able to either kill or convert on one night, but they weren’t allowed to do both on the same night, and IIRC they weren’t able to convert town PR roles. So it’s 50:50 really, I’m slightly inclined to think it’s what happened in S vs H due to the lack of scum kills.

[Sandy]

I have to add that Needa claimed to Daala yesterday, and I trust Daala is 100% loyal unless she was converted last night. 

And there's a watcher who saw Needa targeting me on Night Two, that's why I know both Needa and Daala are speaking the truth about the blocking.

That's why the case against Thrawn (who didn't offer himself to the vig unlike Needa, by the way) is much stronger in my eyes. Of course if Thrawn turns out to be loyal, then my trust for both Needa and Daala are proved wrong.

Dellus's claim is interesting and adds one more layer to this dilemma. If Dellus is telling the truth and if Thrawn is not a godfather, then Needa is the next target.

I support the plan to lynch one and vig kill one, but it's up to the majority to decide which one is which.

[Tariq j]

5 minutes ago, Sandy said:

If Dellus is telling the truth and if Thrawn is not a godfather, then Needa is the next target.

I support the plan to lynch one and vig kill one, but it's up to the majority to decide which one is which.

I think Dellus has to be telling the truth, unless Tarkin was the investigator and, for some reason, decided to give his results to Dellus before he died, there’s no way he could’ve known I was neutral without investigating me personally. 

 

14 minutes ago, Sandy said:

I have to add that Needa claimed to Daala yesterday, and I trust Daala is 100% loyal unless she was converted last night. 

I’m not saying Needa or you are lying but how does Needa claiming to Daala make Daala loyal? 

[Rider Raider]

Wow, this changes things a bit. There is absolutely no way that Dellus would know that Greer is neutral unless he is actually the investigator. That means that he definitely did get a town result on Thrawn, but Thrawn might be the Godfather. If we lynch one and kill the other like a lot of people are saying, then we will get at least one scum, unless there are 2 blockers, but I doubt that.

Dellus, who else did you investigate? There have been 3 nights so far, but you only listed the results of 2. Having another confirmed alignment would be great today.

[Peanuts]

33 minutes ago, Tariq j said:

Well, it appears I have some explaining to do. Dellus is telling the truth and so I believe he is genuinely the town investigator. I’m a survivalist, I’m not a godfather, serial Killer, or anything like that. In any case, I feel Thrawn being a Godafther seems like a very plausible idea. 

Thanks for confirming Dellus' claim. It's plausible, but I've also never heard of a Godfather who is also a blocker. Of course, there's nothing to stop him from claiming blocker even if he's the Godfather, since he would know who the scum blocked. Still, it is quite a coincidence if the one scum who is investigated happens to be the Godfather.

31 minutes ago, Sandy said:

The vigilante said they didn't do anything on the first night.

And yes, I indeed remembered wrong the way Isard went down.  That explains the lack of claiming...

Which seems to confirm the scum have the ability to kill, or at least had it at some point. It's reassuring, but I'm worried about the lack of scum kills after Day 1. It's well possible they can do both some of the time.

29 minutes ago, Tariq j said:

Ideally it would be better to lynch the scum player first, like I said earlier an extra night could mean a conversion, the killing of a town PR etc. Even if a player is killed during the night there action still goes through. Personally I would want to lynch Needa and then vig kill Thrawn. 

In a previous meeting Shield VS Hydra, I believe the scum were able to either kill or convert on one night, but they weren’t allowed to do both on the same night, and IIRC they weren’t able to convert town PR roles. So it’s 50:50 really, I’m slightly inclined to think it’s what happened in S vs H due to the lack of scum kills.

I agree we should kill the scummier first, but at the moment I am on the fence who that may be. I am leaning towards lynching Needa now...

19 minutes ago, Sandy said:

I have to add that Needa claimed to Daala yesterday, and I trust Daala is 100% loyal unless she was converted last night. 

And there's a watcher who saw Needa targeting me on Night Two, that's why I know both Needa and Daala are speaking the truth about the blocking.

That's why the case against Thrawn (who didn't offer himself to the vig unlike Needa, by the way) is much stronger in my eyes. Of course if Thrawn turns out to be loyal, then my trust for both Needa and Daala are proved wrong.

Dellus's claim is interesting and adds one more layer to this dilemma. If Dellus is telling the truth and if Thrawn is not a godfather, then Needa is the next target.

I support the plan to lynch one and vig kill one, but it's up to the majority to decide which one is which.

...but it's interesting that Needa claimed to be the blocker on his own free will, without feeling as much pressure as Thrawn did. While Admiral Piett identified Needa as a suspect on day Three, arguably Thrawn was in a much more difficult situation and would be more forced to take high-righ high-reward gambles.

2 minutes ago, Tariq j said:

I think Dellus has to be telling the truth, unless Tarkin was the investigator and, for some reason, decided to give his results to Dellus before he died, there’s no way he could’ve known I was neutral without investigating me personally. 

 

I’m not saying Needa or you are lying but how does Needa claiming to Daala make Daala loyal? 

I don't ever see that happen, tarkin claimed vanilla and why would he give info to Dellus of all people, who was not exactly the most trusted person around?

 

[fhomess]

5 hours ago, mostlytechnic said:

For what it's worth.... (stating this as told to me, from the viewpoint that Thrawn is claiming town) Thrawn contacted me on day 3, since Ozzel flipping town made him assume I was townie. Said he'd blocked Fenton night 1 and me night 2, and told me he would block fenton again as we went into night 3. Told me day 4 he was blocked on that. So I can verify that he was stating this before announcing today. He asked me ahead of time about claiming publicly today, and I said sure, since there's likely only 1 or 2 scum left, so let's get some info out there and see what happens. 

First, I'm currently not assuming 2 scum left. Last night Komec could have had the scum kill ability and so Needa could be a scum blocker. So the scum having a block ability last night doesn't require there to STILL be 2 left. but there could be. 

Second, I'm not taking a side yet in the Thrawn/Needa battle. Both have possible tales at this point. So here's a thought - lynch one and have the vig take out the other. If there's only 1 scum left, we win. The only way it fails is if there's 2 scum left - in which case we've killed off a scum and lost the town blocker, but we're still ahead in numbers. Anyone see a flaw in my thinking here? I suppose if there's 2 scum left (or if the last scum gets to have kill AND block abilities, which would not be normal) they'd have a chance of blocking the vig, but it'd be slim. 

I'm gonna let the two conflicting tales percolate in the brain for a while.... 

Looking at voting history... (ignoring the mess of day 1 at this point)

Day 2, Thrawn voted for me, then Daala, then Piett. Needa voted for Daala and then put the 5th vote onto Jellico as that train was building. 

Day 3, Thrawn voted for Tarkin to start the day off and stayed there. Needa voted for Thrawn and stayed there. 

So would a theoretical scummy Needa vote for Jellico when there was a train building there? If they thought they could split the vote enough, it'd be a great move. But it also had the risk of lynching a teammate if the vote kept building. At that time, Komec hadn't voted yet and the other two known scum were voting for Daala, so splitting the vote up was still pretty doable. In fact, after Needa's vote, the next votes placed were Jellico voting Piett and then Komec voting Ozzel, which ended up building to his lynch. So I can buy the possibility of Needa being scum based on those voting patterns. But it also works if Needa was town. 

I don't understand how Thrawn went from blocking you to thinking you were the most trustworthy person in the room to claim to.

As for Needa trying to vote for Jellico... as you say, that's pretty much what Komec did with Ozzel and we know where his loyalties lay.

You can make a similar argument against Thrawn.  He avoided both Jellico and Ozzel to vote for Piett with the tallies in a similar state.

1 hour ago, Peanuts said:

We only know that Needa used a block last night, we don't know if Thrawn speaks the truth or not. If Thrawn is the last traitor, he should be able to to kill/convert and conventionally that means losing the ability to block, if he ever had it. What's to stop him from claiming he blocked me to Admiral Motti, but in reality kill someone else entirely?

At this point I feel fairly sure that Thrawn is the traitor, not Needa, so I'd say we lynch Thrawn and save Needa up for tomorrow.

Needa's vote for Jellico was the 5th vote at the time.  Needa also started the voting against Daala before Ozzel and Jellico joined in.

1 hour ago, Khscarymovie4 said:

Are you an investigator, this is news to me. Thrawn could be the godfather and showed up as loyalist, or you could be scum trying to help your buddy. 

I think it would be a bit odd if it was not news to you.

3 minutes ago, Tariq j said:

I think Dellus has to be telling the truth, unless Tarkin was the investigator and, for some reason, decided to give his results to Dellus before he died, there’s no way he could’ve known I was neutral without investigating me personally. 

 

I’m not saying Needa or you are lying but how does Needa claiming to Daala make Daala loyal? 

Daala's loyalty is not certain, but I also read Daala as town because both Ozzel and Jellico made an attempt to steer the vote toward him on Day 2.  It's now apparent that there was a third scum on that bandwagon.  Either Needa with the 1st vote or Thrawn with the 4th.

[mostlytechnic]

1 hour ago, LegoRacer1 said:

I am Investigator! The only other things to note is that Greer is a neutral. If he is a Godfather than thats is something to note. Either way I say we do lynch Needa first.

So you're giving us 2 results, but we've had 3 nights. What was your 3rd result? 

54 minutes ago, Peanuts said:

Both viable explanations. Suddenly I am very much in favor of lynching Needa. Frankly, I'm not opposed to killing Thrawn as well, it would test the investigator claim as well.

Another thing to note: If Needa is scum, which seems likely now, what do we make of the fact that he definitely blocked Thrawn? It means he either has both a blocking and a killing/converting ability, or there is at least one other traitor.

You forget - we killed a scum last night. It's completely possible that Kovac had the kill ability and Needa or Thrawn is scum blocker. Then when Kovac got vig killed, I assume the scum blocking ability is gone and the kill ability moves to whichever one is scum. So we could still have just 1 scum left. 

For this to be true, how did the scum kill ability fail twice? They got Isard on night 1. I don't know how the abilities resolve if a killer is killed - usually both kills go through. A protector could have been successful 2 nights in a row. Or Thrawn is lying and was the scum killer and was blocked night 3 by Needa. That could work with him being a godfather. 

Fenton, did you get any message about being blocked night 1? Thrawn said he blocked me night 2. I'm vanilla town, so I cannot verify that claim. I'm wondering - if Thrawn is godfather, did the scum have any info on you or me. because without info, claiming blocker to me would be risky. Especially since he specifically claimed to have blocked me. If I was a PR, I could have outed him as a liar immediately. So I'm wondering if they rolecopped me, found I was vanilla, and so claimed to have blocked me. It's possible that the scum had a real blocker who blocked you night 1, so they would then know it was a safe claim to make. But that's all guessing here. 

I'm solidly in favor of the nuke option. Lynch one, vig kill the other, and see if we have a day 5 or not. I suspect we'll be done. 

 

[Sandy]

17 minutes ago, Tariq j said:

I’m not saying Needa or you are lying but how does Needa claiming to Daala make Daala loyal? 

Did you mean Needa's loyalty? Daala was hammered by scum votes on both Day 1 and Day 2, so it makes her very likely to be loyal. Why would Needa then claim to her before he was under any suspicion if he was scum? That's what I'm questioning - although I could be the one who's being bamboozled here. ?