Classic themed Creator Sets

[danth]

Many older AFOLs really miss the old Space and Castle themes. They also love Creator sets since they have alternate builds, the classic smiley faces, and no stickers. They also tend to have fantastic build techniques.

Seems like Space and Castle Creator sets would be a home run, giving older fans everything they want. Is something like this a possibility?

Edited November 3, 2016 by danth

[Grover]

As a fan of the Castle theme, I could see these themes being well suited to the modular Creator line.  For instance, one could have a modular Castle turret, wall, or gatehouse, and connect as many of these as desired to form a castle of whatever size one conceived.  Smaller medieval housing could also be done in similar fashion and would likely be popular, especially to buy multiple copies.  I can see Space sets going the same way.

I would also second the original, plain smiley-face heads and no stickers.  The gender-neutral heads are preferable to me, although I can see how people like the variety of the newer expressive ones.

[Aanchir]

I could definitely see a 3-in-1 Creator castle making a nice set. Creator has plenty of different types of modern-day buildings, after all, as well as fantasy sets like Red Creatures. Of course, it'd no doubt be smaller than a typical flagship LEGO Castle set, since those are generally designed for a $100 price point and the Creator theme's biggest 3-in-1 set was the $90 Cafe and Bike Shop. But the idea of making each build a PART of a castle that can then be combined into a larger castle is not outrageous. There's even sort of a precedent for that, what with many of the mini Creator trains building different train cars that can be combined together if you buy multiple sets.

However, I do think it's worth noting that a Creator 3-in-1 castle probably wouldn't deliver everything LEGO Castle fans have been clamoring for. Creator 3-in-1 sets tend to have very few minifigures (two or three at most), and introduce few new printed elements. Animals in the Creator 3-in-1 line tend to be brick-built, meaning the chances of molded LEGO dragons or horses appearing is fairly slim. And as for the note about "classic smiley faces", that really only applies to the Creator Expert Modular Buildings — other Creator sets especially the 3-in-1 sets tend to use more modern and varied faces.

As for the Creator Expert line, it's true that category follows pretty different rules than the 3-in-1 line. So a Creator Expert castle could be bigger and offer more figs, more new prints, and more molded animals, along with a more "adult" building experience. With that said, there's nothing aside from branding that would really make a Creator Expert Castle set much different from other Castle D2C sets like Medieval Market Village and Kingdoms Joust. Although it WOULD be interesting to see what a proper castle might look like at a Creator Expert building level and price point.

For Space, a lot of the same thoughts apply. Creator has had sets that could be considered space and sci-fi, like last year's Future Flyer or next year's Exploration Robots, and Creator vehicles are popular, so there's no reason to think they COULDN'T make sets with subject matter like spaceships, moon rovers, or moon bases. But the size, number of new prints, and number of minifigures in 3-in-1 sets might still leave Space fans wanting.

The idea of a Creator Expert space set is more intriguing, because unlike Castle and Pirates which have had D2C sets of their own, the closest we've had to LEGO Space D2C sets are the Shuttle Adventure/Shuttle Expedition and of course the licensed spaceships from the Star Wars UCS line. The Star Wars UCS line is probably a major factor in why there hasn't been more sci-fi D2C. But if there were a Space-related D2C set (whether with Creator Expert branding or not), I'm sure it'd be well received by the LEGO Space fan community.

[Faefrost]

Didn't they try actually re-releasing some of the classic sets a few years back, and it bombed horribly? Just a complete sales failure? Yeah some AFOLs say they want this sort of thing. But the reality is not many are willing to fork over money for such when it comes down to it. They want a more refined modern product. 

Now with that said there are some good ideas in there. A Creator three in one Castle set would be cool.

[danth]

On 11/23/2016 at 5:09 PM, Faefrost said:

Didn't they try actually re-releasing some of the classic sets a few years back, and it bombed horribly? Just a complete sales failure? Yeah some AFOLs say they want this sort of thing. But the reality is not many are willing to fork over money for such when it comes down to it. They want a more refined modern product. 

Exactly. Imagine something like Benny's Spaceship/Exo Suit or Medieval Market, but with alternate builds. Pretty sure those sold well. 

[paul_delahaye]

I personally cannot see Lego jumping into a space theme until the Licence with Star Wars comes to an end.  I think they would see this as a risk to confuse their market and potentially pull sales away from their most popular line.

Castle however,  definately some serious potential here for a 3 in 1 model.

[Faefrost]

They have done roughly a dozen Space Themes since the onset of the Star Wars license. Star Wars doesn't supersede LEGO Space nor does it have a non compete. Similarly the Middle Earth themes did not block Castle. The only two Classic Themes that we know were directly impacted by non competes and licensed IP are Pirates, which was felt to be a direct compete with PotC, and Western, which was blocked by Lone Ranger. 

[Aanchir]

20 hours ago, Faefrost said:

They have done roughly a dozen Space Themes since the onset of the Star Wars license. Star Wars doesn't supersede LEGO Space nor does it have a non compete. Similarly the Middle Earth themes did not block Castle. The only two Classic Themes that we know were directly impacted by non competes and licensed IP are Pirates, which was felt to be a direct compete with PotC, and Western, which was blocked by Lone Ranger. 

While there may not be a non-compete clause, LEGO generally does have their own concerns about introducing too many similar themes that might cannibalize each other's sales. I believe I've read comments from designers of themes like Space Police III, Alien Conquest, and Galaxy Squad about the challenge of making sure new space sets and themes aren't too "Star Wars-ish". If a new theme is too similar to an existing theme, there's a risk that instead of drawing in new audiences, it will just divide the existing audience up into smaller slices.

All things considered, though, this should not be a huge concern as long as we're talking about individual Creator sets. LEGO Creator already has sets focusing on sci-fi subject matter like robots and mechs, and fantasy subject matter like monsters and dragons. I see no reason they couldn't extend that to include other LEGO Space subject matter like spaceships, moonbases, and moon rovers, or other LEGO Castle subject matter like castles, carriages, and siege engines. The bigger question is whether those sorts of sets would actually offer what LEGO Space and LEGO Castle fans feel like they're currently missing out on, or whether the limitations of the Creator theme would leave them feeling underwhelmed.

Edited December 19, 2016 by Aanchir

[Trekkie99]

I think Lego needs to make another "multiple in one"train creator set. Like 10183. That would be GREAT! And even though they tested a monorail concept with kids,(which apparently didn't make them go ooh! and ahh!) I'd really like to see how it looked and worked. Maybe in the future hopefully.

 

Oh and about space themes? I CURSE star wars! MWAHAHAHAHAHAAAA! I want a classic space theme soooooo bad! And some people disagree, but I thought galaxy squad was great. But, I guess kids wanted star wars. ?

Edited April 16, 2017 by LegoMonorailFan

[Digger of Bricks]

On 12/19/2016 at 10:31 AM, Aanchir said:

While there may not be a non-compete clause, LEGO generally does have their own concerns about introducing too many similar themes that might cannibalize each other's sales. I believe I've read comments from designers of themes like Space Police III, Alien Conquest, and Galaxy Squad about the challenge of making sure new space sets and themes aren't too "Star Wars-ish". If a new theme is too similar to an existing theme, there's a risk that instead of drawing in new audiences, it will just divide the existing audience up into smaller slices.

All things considered, though, this should not be a huge concern as long as we're talking about individual Creator sets. LEGO Creator already has sets focusing on sci-fi subject matter like robots and mechs, and fantasy subject matter like monsters and dragons. I see no reason they couldn't extend that to include other LEGO Space subject matter like spaceships, moonbases, and moon rovers, or other LEGO Castle subject matter like castles, carriages, and siege engines. The bigger question is whether those sorts of sets would actually offer what LEGO Space and LEGO Castle fans feel like they're currently missing out on, or whether the limitations of the Creator theme would leave them feeling underwhelmed.

Currently with Disney's new wave of SW films, many have speculated original space themes may not be seen for quite some time, as presumed with the lack of any from 2002 to 2006 thanks to the SW prequel trilogy. But one type of space theme I could see possibly coexisting alongside SW currently without conflicting with it may be a space miners theme, resembling 2009-2010's Power Miners. Instead of sleek spacecraft, many of the sets would be composed of Tonka truck-ish low gravity mining vehicles and cargo transport craft. Power Miners was one of Lego's top original themes before Ninjago, so eight years later, I'm surprised we haven't seen a successor since then.

Edited May 6, 2017 by Digger of Bricks

[Digger of Bricks]

As far as Creator goes, castle seems like to me a good candidate for Expert series Creator sets, where as classic space though could maybe only get as far as $70 sets such as 2015's 31039 Blue Power Jet. Castle would have much broader appeal beyond the AFOL community, where as classic space appeal primarily to AFOLs and those who grew up with the sets. Expert series sets dealing with space will probably be more like 2010's 10213 Shuttle Adventure, based on more familiar, real life examples. Castle will also appeal to both American and European audiences, something that seems to me to be a factor considered by the Creator Expert team for sub-themes like Expert cars, trains, and architecture. 

[Trekkie99]

On 11/2/2016 at 3:20 PM, danth said:

Many older AFOLs really miss the old Space and Castle themes. They also love Creator sets since they have alternate builds, the classic smiley faces, and no stickers. They also tend to have fantastic build techniques.

Seems like Space and Castle Creator sets would be a home run, giving older fans everything they want. Is something like this a possibility?

Hey danth! You made some great points and suggested some really good ideas on my thread, "a opinion on classic space themes", and I thought I'd give you a heads up about a thread started by Jim on the special themes forum.

Jim will be interviewing some creator expert designers, and was looking for some questions and suggestions  from the fans on what to ask. It would be a great time for us the fans to give our two cent's on the subject! Thanks.

Edited May 9, 2017 by LegoMonorailFan

[danth]

7 hours ago, LegoMonorailFan said:

Jim will be interviewing some creator expert designers, and was looking for some questions and suggestions  from the fans on what to ask. It would be a great time for us the fans to give our two cent's on the subject! Thanks.

Good idea!

[Trekkie99]

4 minutes ago, danth said:

Good idea!

I've also mentioned this on my thread in hopes to direct more people to the topic. 

[x105Black]

Creator Expert Castle sets would be fantastic.  The same level of detail as Modular buildings.

[rodiziorobs]

I haven't bought a new castle set in a long time, but I would be intrigued by the thought of a 3-in-1 where the three models are a tower, a gate, and a wall (for example), and you can combine al three with multiple copies of the set. Keep it at a $20-$25 range with two or three solid minifigs and a good PPP (most Creator sets have this) and I'd buy for sure buy multiples.

The same goes for space (not specifically "classic space", but anything from CS to Exploriens to Galaxy Squad-style: the whole gamut), give me some good colors, unique bricks, and let me build a small fleet of different vehicles (mini dropship, mining truck, defense vehicle for example), with similar livery, that would be great.

Same thing goes for a Western set (sheriff station, bandit hideout, saloon). I wish Wild West were still an active theme, but a single set could satisfy that.

Even Pirates could work (small ship, shipwreck, or small port/fort), but it would probably have to be closer to a $40 set to do any of those ideas justice.

I would love having some one-off sets for these rather than a whole theme. Sometimes a theme isn't appealing enough to pick up, despite the good aspects it has (NK), or you can't commit financially to a big set in a theme but the smaller sets are bland. Having a well designed set that's versatile enough to be a 3-in-1 would be fantastic, if it ever happens.

[Aanchir]

On 5/13/2017 at 0:17 PM, x105Black said:

Creator Expert Castle sets would be fantastic.  The same level of detail as Modular buildings.

MMV and Kingdoms Joust were already basically analogous to Creator Expert with their 12+ age range (same as the Winter Village series or Maersk Line Triple-E), but I agree it could be neat to see how much more intricate Castle sets could be at a 16+ age range like the Modular Buildings, Vehicles, and Fairgrounds series.

[x105Black]

10 hours ago, Aanchir said:

MMV and Kingdoms Joust were already basically analogous to Creator Expert with their 12+ age range (same as the Winter Village series or Maersk Line Triple-E), but I agree it could be neat to see how much more intricate Castle sets could be at a 16+ age range like the Modular Buildings, Vehicles, and Fairgrounds series.

That's a good point, and I would argue that both of those sets were among the best Castle sets ever produced.

[Digger of Bricks]

Robots are the closest thing to sci-fi Lego has ever done for Creator, with sets like 2015's 31034 Future Flyer or 2011's 5764 Rescue Robot for example. Along with Classic Space styled spacecrafts, I would like to see more Jaeger type piloted mecha for Creator (think Pacific Rim). There was an impressive Creator Designer set made in 2004 called the Titan XP (set no. 4508) that pretty much fit this bill. I was not aware of this set until browsing Brickset for sand blue parts when I found this.

 

 

[danth]

I forgot I made this topic!

But, from our mouths to Lego's ears. What we've asked for has come to pass. Classic. Themed. Creator. Sets. (you have to pronounce the periods) are thing now. You're welcome. It only took 4 years.

2020 was Pirates: https://brickset.com/sets/31109-1/Pirate-Ship

2021 was Castle: https://brickset.com/sets/31120-1/Medieval-Castle

2022 was (surprisingly?) Vikings: https://brickset.com/sets/31132-1/Viking-Ship-and-the-Midgard-Serpent

This line up of course screams for an answer to the question "WTF about Space?". Maybe we'll finally get those in 2023? Or maybe it'll be the Wild West or Adventurers.

Personally, I'd like to see multiple Classic Themed Creator sets each year. For instance, these two could have easily been made proper Space sets, but that opportunity was missed. Imagine a Futuron Mining Mech and Unitron Spyrius (to match the robot face print) Cyber Drone! I would have bought ten each, if not more.

 

Edited May 31, 2022 by danth

[Lyichir]

1 hour ago, danth said:

I forgot I made this topic!

But, from our mouths to Lego's ears. What we've asked for has come to pass. Classic. Themed. Creator. Sets. (you have to pronounce the periods) are thing now. You're welcome. It only took 4 years.

2020 was Pirates: https://brickset.com/sets/31109-1/Pirate-Ship

2021 was Castle: https://brickset.com/sets/31120-1/Medieval-Castle

2022 was (surprisingly?) Vikings: https://brickset.com/sets/31132-1/Viking-Ship-and-the-Midgard-Serpent

This line up of course screams for an answer to the question "WTF about Space?". Maybe we'll finally get those in 2023? Or maybe it'll be the Wild West or Adventurers.

Personally, I'd like to see multiple Classic Themed Creator sets each year. For instance, these two could have easily been made proper Space sets, but that opportunity was missed. Imagine a Futuron Mining Mech and Unitron Cyber Drone! I would have bought ten each, if not more.

 

I feel like Classic Space is sort of a tricky case. I would say the 3-in-1 Pirates, Castle, and Vikings sets are all based pretty heavily on "archetypal" ideas of what that sort of subject matter should look like, rather than being based solely on the classic iterations of those themes. It's hard to go wrong with a grey-walled castle or a brown-hulled wooden ship, so it's not surprising that the Creator 3-in-1 theme would opt for those sort of depictions for its takes on those sorts of subjects, regardless of how much they ended up having with how earlier themes approached those subjects.

But while Classic Space is nostalgic for AFOLs, I feel like the blue-and-yellow color scheme of the ships or the color-coded spacesuits have a good deal less in common with what most kids think of when they think about spaceships—more likely, what comes to mind for them are the sort of black, white, and grey color schemes typical of NASA (and used for 3-in-1 sets like the Space Rover Explorer from 2020 or the Space Mining Mech and Space Shuttle Adventure from 2021). That sort of color scheme is arguably even more "classic" (and potentially more nostalgic to adults who didn't grow up specifically playing with Classic Space Lego sets) due to its association with the real-world "space race" and the parallel interest in sci-fi toys and stories. By contrast, the Classic Space aesthetic is a bit more particular both to a bygone vision of the future and to a particular point in Lego's own history when red, blue, yellow, black, and white were among the main colors Lego produced.

It's probably slightly harder for a designer to make a case for prioritizing recreating that specific aesthetic over a more archetypal one that probably tests better with kids—especially for a mass-market theme like Creator 3-in-1 (as opposed to an expert-level set tailored more specifically toward adults nostalgic for Lego's history, like the rumored Galaxy Explorer D2C set). That's not to say Lego doesn't still work in references where they can, like the classic space logo on the spacesuits or the Spyrius/Exploriens-inspired droid head.

P.S.: Speaking of references to older sets, I personally think the Cyber Drone set's color scheme was in fact intended as a reference, not to an older Space theme but to 4508 Titan XP, which could be considered one of the progenitors of the yellow-label Creator theme itself.

[icm]

^ From George Gilliatt's designer Bricklist: https://brickset.com/sets/list-40077

BRICKLIST NOTES

The first set I designed all by myself since being hired as a full-time designer! This set sees the successor to the classic Spyrius Droid and Ann Droid minifigures with the introduction of Cyber Droid! I got a brand new face decoration for this figure, which was drawn up beautifully by Graphic Designer Matt Parsons.

FUN FACTS:
- This model borrows its Orange and Sand Blue colour scheme from the 2004 Creator set 4508 Titan XP.
- The B model Cyber Mech was inspired by the 2006 Exo Force set 7701 Grand Titan, featuring a laser arm and a claw arm.
- Element 30602 appears here in Sand Blue for the first time since the 2002 Attack of the Clones set 7103 Jedi Duel!

[danth]

11 hours ago, Lyichir said:

I feel like Classic Space is sort of a tricky case. I would say the 3-in-1 Pirates, Castle, and Vikings sets are all based pretty heavily on "archetypal" ideas of what that sort of subject matter should look like, rather than being based solely on the classic iterations of those themes. It's hard to go wrong with a grey-walled castle or a brown-hulled wooden ship, so it's not surprising that the Creator 3-in-1 theme would opt for those sort of depictions for its takes on those sorts of subjects, regardless of how much they ended up having with how earlier themes approached those subjects.

But while Classic Space is nostalgic for AFOLs, I feel like the blue-and-yellow color scheme of the ships or the color-coded spacesuits have a good deal less in common with what most kids think of when they think about spaceships—more likely, what comes to mind for them are the sort of black, white, and grey color schemes typical of NASA (and used for 3-in-1 sets like the Space Rover Explorer from 2020 or the Space Mining Mech and Space Shuttle Adventure from 2021). That sort of color scheme is arguably even more "classic" (and potentially more nostalgic to adults who didn't grow up specifically playing with Classic Space Lego sets) due to its association with the real-world "space race" and the parallel interest in sci-fi toys and stories. By contrast, the Classic Space aesthetic is a bit more particular both to a bygone vision of the future and to a particular point in Lego's own history when red, blue, yellow, black, and white were among the main colors Lego produced.

It's probably slightly harder for a designer to make a case for prioritizing recreating that specific aesthetic over a more archetypal one that probably tests better with kids—especially for a mass-market theme like Creator 3-in-1 (as opposed to an expert-level set tailored more specifically toward adults nostalgic for Lego's history, like the rumored Galaxy Explorer D2C set). That's not to say Lego doesn't still work in references where they can, like the classic space logo on the spacesuits or the Spyrius/Exploriens-inspired droid head.

P.S.: Speaking of references to older sets, I personally think the Cyber Drone set's color scheme was in fact intended as a reference, not to an older Space theme but to 4508 Titan XP, which could be considered one of the progenitors of the yellow-label Creator theme itself.

I don't think gray castles or brown ships are any more "archetypal" than grey or white spaceships with blue or any other primary color for accents. That's pretty much what every spaceship has ever been colored in a modern sci-fi movie, in Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek, Lightyear, etc.

 

All of these ships look like they could exist in the same universe. There's a definite shared design sense, as if everyone (artists, producers, movie goers) agrees spaceships should look a certain way. It's an archetype. And it's basically what new Lego Space sets would look like if they came back.

As for blue and gray specifically, I never said Creator Space sets should be blue and gray. It would be dumb to stick with just that scheme. There are a bunch of good classic color themes besides that. They're all good.

Classic Themed Space Creator sets should use one of the old Space color schemes, though. Because why not? Then you get the AFOL Space fans to buy it as well as the people who were going to buy it anyway. My usual examples: Space Mining Mech and Cyber Drone. Space Mining Mech is frankly a pretty sucky set as it is. A trans blue canopy would make it about 10 times more visually exciting. And, you know, a minifig wouldn't hurt -- why not include a SPACE minifig? As has been proven before, people will buy the crap out of a set just to get a Space minifig. The minifig could have been Classic Space or Futuron or even Exploriens, since all had white and transparent blue schemes.

Cyber drone is similar. What is it? Is it an "archetypal" sci-fi set? No. It's a weird helicopter thing with no rotor. And the color scheme sure as heck isn't archetypal; it's a reference to a one off set nobody remembers? Wow, great. Why not make it a reference to an old Space theme then? I mean, I like the set, but a Halloween-colored helicopter with no rotor and a weird robot pilot doesn't make a whole lot of sense. And it proves that being "archetypal" is NOT a requirement to get a Creator set made. But anyway...a simple color swap makes this a legit Classic Space set. Just pick any Space theme, it doesn't matter. It improves the set and gets MORE people to buy it.

This is just like Lego using the Black Falcons for the Creator Castle. Black and blue colored warriors using a falcon motif is not any more archetypal than any other color scheme or animal motif. They weren't included for any other reason other than it's part of Lego Castle's legacy and Lego fans like it. For the same reason, Creator Space sets should use color themes and logos that are part of Lego Space's legacy and that Lego fans like. That means colored windscreens and known Space factions.

Anyway I'm not sure I buy the whole "archetypal" color argument at all, even for Castles. Archetypal castles can be white, earthen/sandy brown, or black. And space ships can be whatever color too (yellow Naboo fighter, red Jedi Starfighter, black Tie fighters).

Oh and the whole "what tests better with kids" argument. Kids don't like boring all gray everything, yet Lego keeps cranking out SW sets. Did they ask kids if they like orange and black helicopters with no rotors? I really doubt it. Do kids like this? I really doubt it. If you ask kids when creating a theme, you get something more like Nexo Knights, with colored canopies.

I think this is just the excuse machine cranked up again; "Lego can't make Space because...reasons".

Basically, a Creator Space set would be just like a SW or Lightyear set, except with better colors than SW. It would be just as archetypal and kids would like it fine.

Edited May 31, 2022 by danth

[Lyichir]

9 hours ago, danth said:

I don't think gray castles or brown ships are any more "archetypal" than grey or white spaceships with blue or any other primary color for accents. That's pretty much what every spaceship has ever been colored in a modern sci-fi movie, in Star Wars, Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek, Lightyear, etc.

All of these ships look like they could exist in the same universe. There's a definite shared design sense, as if everyone (artists, producers, movie goers) agrees spaceships should look a certain way. It's an archetype. And it's basically what new Lego Space sets would look like if they came back.

As for blue and gray specifically, I never said Creator Space sets should be blue and gray. It would be dumb to stick with just that scheme. There are a bunch of good classic color themes besides that. They're all good.

Classic Themed Space Creator sets should use one of the old Space color schemes, though. Because why not? Then you get the AFOL Space fans to buy it as well as the people who were going to buy it anyway. My usual examples: Space Mining Mech and Cyber Drone. Space Mining Mech is frankly a pretty sucky set as it is. A trans blue canopy would make it about 10 times more visually exciting. And, you know, a minifig wouldn't hurt -- why not include a SPACE minifig? As has been proven before, people will buy the crap out of a set just to get a Space minifig. The minifig could have been Classic Space or Futuron or even Exploriens, since all had white and transparent blue schemes.

Cyber drone is similar. What is it? Is it an "archetypal" sci-fi set? No. It's a weird helicopter thing with no rotor. And the color scheme sure as heck isn't archetypal; it's a reference to a one off set nobody remembers? Wow, great. Why not make it a reference to an old Space theme then? I mean, I like the set, but a Halloween-colored helicopter with no rotor and a weird robot pilot doesn't make a whole lot of sense. And it proves that being "archetypal" is NOT a requirement to get a Creator set made. But anyway...a simple color swap makes this a legit Classic Space set. Just pick any Space theme, it doesn't matter. It improves the set and gets MORE people to buy it.

This is just like Lego using the Black Falcons for the Creator Castle. Black and blue colored warriors using a falcon motif is not any more archetypal than any other color scheme or animal motif. They weren't included for any other reason other than it's part of Lego Castle's legacy and Lego fans like it. For the same reason, Creator Space sets should use color themes and logos that are part of Lego Space's legacy and that Lego fans like. That means colored windscreens and known Space factions.

Anyway I'm not sure I buy the whole "archetypal" color argument at all, even for Castles. Archetypal castles can be white, earthen/sandy brown, or black. And space ships can be whatever color too (yellow Naboo fighter, red Jedi Starfighter, black Tie fighters).

Oh and the whole "what tests better with kids" argument. Kids don't like boring all gray everything, yet Lego keeps cranking out SW sets. Did they ask kids if they like orange and black helicopters with no rotors? I really doubt it. Do kids like this? I really doubt it. If you ask kids when creating a theme, you get something more like Nexo Knights, with colored canopies.

I think this is just the excuse machine cranked up again; "Lego can't make Space because...reasons".

Basically, a Creator Space set would be just like a SW or Lightyear set, except with better colors than SW. It would be just as archetypal and kids would like it fine.

Okay, I was trying to be polite, but that's a lot of words just to say that you think your preferences are more valid and important than anybody else's. Now the complaint isn't that there aren't classic influences in sets, but the the ones there aren't the right classic influences? That the designers of a Creator set was wrong for referencing an older Creator set instead of a theme like Classic Space that's been homaged and referenced dozens of times? Get over yourself. Again, the bulk of my point wasn't that older space themes were bad, or that Lego is somehow barred from referencing them. It was that the preferences of AFOLs like you and I are not going to be the main priority for a theme like this and that other aspects (including kid testing and, yes, the designers' own preferences) are going to be higher on the priorities list.

It comes across as whiny and irritating when Lego ends up making space sets in Creator (like AFOLs had been asking for, complete with retro-inspired torso and head prints) and you start bad-mouthing their color schemes or design choices for not pandering enough to you. Why on earth should Lego radically redesign their set concepts to tailor them specifically to the least accommodating buyers, when kid buyers are both a bigger market and less likely to bite the hand that feeds them?

[MaximillianRebo]

18 hours ago, danth said:

Anyway I'm not sure I buy the whole "archetypal" color argument at all, even for Castles. Archetypal castles can be white, earthen/sandy brown, or black. And space ships can be whatever color too (yellow Naboo fighter, red Jedi Starfighter, black Tie fighters).

Oh and the whole "what tests better with kids" argument. Kids don't like boring all gray everything, yet Lego keeps cranking out SW sets. Did they ask kids if they like orange and black helicopters with no rotors? I really doubt it. Do kids like this? I really doubt it. If you ask kids when creating a theme, you get something more like Nexo Knights, with colored canopies.

The preponderance of white, black and bley ships in the SW universe is not the fault of Lego designers, they're just tasked with recreating the designs and colour schemes of the in-universe vehicles, and the movie designers themselves had to deal with the limitations of special effects of the time (especially with the original trilogy) hence why there is not a lot of colour on screen in space battles (the original TIE fighters were meant to have blue accents, but that caused problems filming against a blue screen; it's also why the early 2000's Lego TIE's had a blue colour scheme). It also doesn't help that the original trilogy - and the period of the current Kenobi and upcoming Andor shows - is a time of an authoritarian regime, so the ships won't be very colourful and so any Lego model produced will be another sea of bley. The prequel era appeared to be a much more colourful time hence the better colouring on Naboo fighters, Jedi starfighters etc.

Personally I think the new model that you linked looks like a grey box with wings, but a lot of people will buy it as they want a representation of the show regardless of colour scheme, shape etc. (and being a licensed set some people will buy it for the minfigs alone) The price is also pretty bad, but that's a separate issue, and one that Lego is very much in control of. On the plus side it appears to contain a number of 4x2 pointed wedge plates, so it's good that more of those will become available.