Potential Questions for LEGO Designers

[Lyichir]

Is there any chance of getting more sci-fi Technic vehicle designs in the future, either as part of the Technic theme or as part of a constraction theme like Bionicle or even Star Wars? Back in my youth I loved Technic sub-themes like Cyber-Slam, but lately Technic has been almost solely limited to realistic vehicles. Don't get me wrong; I love realistic Technic vehicles, and the latest designs are top-notch, but I can't help but feel that the scope of the theme has gotten much more narrow since a decade or two ago.

[legolijntje]

Why did they make this piece have little friction and (maybe softer plastic)?

Yea, I'm wondering the same about the plastic type. I don't really know what's different, it just looks and feels different (a bit 'softer' or less glossy maybe).

[roppie11]

Why did they make this piece have little friction and (maybe softer plastic)?

if it has friction, the beams have a much stiffer connection. And after short thinking, i really can't come up with examples where you want that pin to be frictionless.

- If you want to rotate it, for whatever function you like, you would more likely use a normal axle.

- If you use it to attach something(which is it's basic function) it is just locked in place and the pin can't rotate so the friction brings no problems again. If you want a beam to rotate, you should be able to use a axle because there already is a axle hole.

ho

Edited May 9, 2016 by roppie11

[Jeroen Ottens]

if it has friction, the beams have a much stiffer connection. And after short thinking, i really can't come up with examples where you want that pin to be frictionless.

- If you want to rotate it, for whatever function you like, you would more likely use a normal axle.

- If you use it to attach something(which is it's basic function) it is just locked in place and the pin can't rotate so the friction brings no problems again. If you want a beam to rotate, you should be able to use a axle because there already is a axle hole.

ho

I once had a discussion with the technical guys from the Lego piece development about exactly this topic. He explained that it had to do with the mating of parts. If all parts were of the same material it would be difficult to have the desired properties in all combinations. Especially for parts that have both an axle and a male friction element are difficult. This part for instance:

If the tolerances are such that this part is just a little too small the normal axles will not fit through the axlehole. But if the tolerances are on the high side a normal bush will no longer fit on the axle part. Using a softer plastic for these parts allows for a bit more room in the tolerance arena.

Now I don't know whether this is the reason for this part too (the axle+pin joiner has the same properties, but is made of a harder plastic), but I suspect something like this is playing a role here

[roppie11]

I once had a discussion with the technical guys from the Lego piece development about exactly this topic. He explained that it had to do with the mating of parts. If all parts were of the same material it would be difficult to have the desired properties in all combinations. Especially for parts that have both an axle and a male friction element are difficult. This part for instance:

(image)

If the tolerances are such that this part is just a little too small the normal axles will not fit through the axlehole. But if the tolerances are on the high side a normal bush will no longer fit on the axle part. Using a softer plastic for these parts allows for a bit more room in the tolerance arena.

Now I don't know whether this is the reason for this part too (the axle+pin joiner has the same properties, but is made of a harder plastic), but I suspect something like this is playing a role here

Interesting. I really like this kind of information! I was not talking about the kind of plastic though but I'm sure you got that.

[Erik Leppen]

I always thought the dark gray 3L axle-pin was softer to make it easier to remove. But I don't know where I got this from.

[1974]

Technic parts (and clips) where some of the first LEGO parts to be moulded in anything but the standard ABS (yes, there where odd trees and 1:87 vehicles before that), but it didn't get widespread before the clips (4085x) in 1980. The softer Technic parts started in 1988 with the 2791 rack and with axles in 1995 with 3L stop axle 6587. And since then a load of "soft" Technic parts have seen the light. A wise move, imho

TLG can even mould soft parts into hard ABS now (61406x) in the same part!

Cheers,

Ole

[allanp]

So that's why the female CV part is made of utterly butterly!

[1974]

Correction to my post, ALL Technich axles (inlcuding the milky white ones from 70's) are softer than regular ABS, But types like the 3L with stop and parts such as the 2791 are even softer

That's just one reason why the cry for more powerfull motors are a no go. Both the XL and the buggy motor can easily twist those axles and shred gears. More powerfull motors could probably create so much frinction that the're would be an actual fire hazard

One burned up baby and TLG would be toast (pardon the pun)

[Jim]

Is there any chance of getting more sci-fi Technic vehicle designs in the future, either as part of the Technic theme or as part of a constraction theme like Bionicle or even Star Wars? Back in my youth I loved Technic sub-themes like Cyber-Slam, but lately Technic has been almost solely limited to realistic vehicles. Don't get me wrong; I love realistic Technic vehicles, and the latest designs are top-notch, but I can't help but feel that the scope of the theme has gotten much more narrow since a decade or two ago.

I think the Technic SciFi vehicles were one of the reasons of TLG's near demise two decades ago, so I wouldn't bet on it.

[Lyichir]

I think the Technic SciFi vehicles were one of the reasons of TLG's near demise two decades ago, so I wouldn't bet on it.

I don't think those were much of a factor on their own (though they could be considered part of the same larger trend toward less realistic vehicles and subjects also seen in "Town Jr." and World City, which could be considered both a reaction to and cause of flagging sales). Also, two decades ago? You're talking about 2003 or so—stop making me feel old!

That said, there's a difference between all of the sets becoming less realistic and having a few sets that "break the mold", so to say. Heck, we haven't even had anything like a Space Shuttle or Mars Rover in Technic in ages! Also, as I mentioned, Lego could easily make sci-fi vehicles as part of their "constraction" themes like Bionicle if they didn't want to dilute the appeal of the main Technic brand (as they did in 2008, 2009, and 2010).

Frankly, Technic has evolved by leaps and bounds since the '90s and early '00s, and I absolutely adore the recent sets I've gotten in the theme. But I can't help but feel like they could similarly do better with robots or spaceships or mechs than they did back in those days. I'm just curious whether the shift away from those sorts of sets was a deliberate move, and whether there's any chance of them giving those sorts of subjects another try.

Edited May 12, 2016 by Lyichir

[MRP_]

Design process

What goes into designing a new part? Is it like, you come to a point where the parts you have just don't fit your needs in the way you want so you make a new piece that does? And how long dies it take? Like you just make it, test it and done, or do you have to like, write a paragraph about why this part is needed and you can't just build around the problem?

[legolijntje]

I just thought about the following: Jim, has this topic to do with this (and this)?

Just a thought: are YOU going to that day in Billund. I mean, you said you wanted to finish the Porsche review before 1 June anyway, because you were going on holiday.

Or is this al just a coincidence?

[Jim]

I just thought about the following: Jim, has this topic to do with this (and this)?

Just a thought: are YOU going to that day in Billund. I mean, you said you wanted to finish the Porsche review before 1 June anyway, because you were going on holiday.

Or is this al just a coincidence?

Well, let's say there are a lot of coincidences

I created this topic because I was planning on asking for a possibility to ask some of these questions, not knowing whether this request would be honered.

Suddenly there was an announcement about a Media Fan Day, which had my name written all over it, since the selected EB member would meet the Technic guys. However, I already had a Holiday planned. Clone O'Patra is going instead. Of course, I have given him a bunch of the questions found in this topic. He will be sharing a room with Sariel and Fernando (Technicbricks). I am very disappointed not being able to meet these guys in person, but hopefully another possibility will present itself sometime in the future. For now I hope Cloney will have a blast.

So, creating this topic started with a purpose, then turned into a coincidence and now it has a purpose again

I'm not sure which questions will be answered, but I will of course post the answers here.

[allanp]

they sometimes do... in a way...

often you'll see 'internals' of a creator/system build using different colours, to ensure you build preceding steps in the right place

even the Back to the Future Ideas car does this - it has red/blue bricks, in early stages of the build, that assist you when building, and eventually get covered up

Yes, but they don't colour code the outside pieces because it would look crap (Knex) and technic is designed for more advanced builders, especially the larger kits. 42056 has a recommended age of 16+.

ONLINE FORUMS

How often do they read online forums and which ones do they read?

Do they know how much we hate colour vomit?

NEW PARTS

Aside from the new pneumatics in the Arocs (which are very well recieved) what new parts do they think we want?

What new parts do they want to create but have yet to be allowed to?

Edited May 31, 2016 by allanp

[legolijntje]

Well, let's say there are a lot of coincidences

I created this topic because I was planning on asking for a possibility to ask some of these questions, not knowing whether this request would be honered.

Suddenly there was an announcement about a Media Fan Day, which had my name written all over it, since the selected EB member would meet the Technic guys. However, I already had a Holiday planned. Clone O'Patra is going instead. Of course, I have given him a bunch of the questions found in this topic. He will be sharing a room with Sariel and Fernando (Technicbricks). I am very disappointed not being able to meet these guys in person, but hopefully another possibility will present itself sometime in the future. For now I hope Cloney will have a blast.

So, creating this topic started with a purpose, then turned into a coincidence and now it has a purpose again

I'm not sure which questions will be answered, but I will of course post the answers here.

I see. Indeed a lot of coincidences

Btw: another question that suddenly came to mind (maybe it has been asked before): why the (partial) color change to red and yellow axles?

[roppie11]

I see. Indeed a lot of coincidences

Btw: another question that suddenly came to mind (maybe it has been asked before): why the (partial) color change to red and yellow axles?

That is the very first question asked by jim It's a good one though

[legolijntje]

That is the very first question asked by jim It's a good one though

Haha! Whoops

[Bricktrain]

I see. Indeed a lot of coincidences

Btw: another question that suddenly came to mind (maybe it has been asked before): why the (partial) color change to red and yellow axles?

obvious when you see the handrails on the BWE ;-)

[Jeroen Ottens]

Do you ever get feedback from the community as a designer?

[legolijntje]

In case some of the people that go to Billund still read these questions:

There is a lot of discussion about the Porsche, especially (and mainly) the gearbox. People find that it's running poorly, that is has 4 reverse gears and that is has a wrong shifting order (1-3-2-4).

TLG also released this statement about the shifting order in the Porsche. It says it was deliberate to improve the behavior of the gearbox.

It seems people are divided between whether TLG is telling the (weird) truth or that it tries to save cost (errata and stuff like that) by telling that it was deliberate.

In any case, I was just wondering. The Porsche instructions proudly claim that it took 3 years of work to get this set done. And it still ends up with a 'bad' gearbox.

At the same time, other builders are able to create (relative) smoothly working gearboxes, that are in the correct order, have the correct amount of reverse gears and are sometimes even remote controlled.

Even while using pieces already in existence (the Porsche uses new pieces in the gearbox).

I'm wondering (and here's the actual question): was it really not possible to create a better gearbox in those 3 years? Just like the 'hobby-builders'?

Was there a deadline and was the build rushed in the end (although if it was, they'd probably not tell )?

Now, I know that it's probably a question that they're not 'allowed' to answer or something, which I understand.

But, I'm more interested in if some of the Technic designers are willing (and allowed) to share some thoughts regarding the Porsche and especially the gearbox.

[allanp]

Question for designers, have you read allanp's post?

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=133688&st=303#entry2576164

:laugh:

Edited June 2, 2016 by allanp

[TheMindGarage]

In case some of the people that go to Billund still read these questions:

There is a lot of discussion about the Porsche, especially (and mainly) the gearbox. People find that it's running poorly, that is has 4 reverse gears and that is has a wrong shifting order (1-3-2-4).

TLG also released this statement about the shifting order in the Porsche. It says it was deliberate to improve the behavior of the gearbox.

It seems people are divided between whether TLG is telling the (weird) truth or that it tries to save cost (errata and stuff like that) by telling that it was deliberate.

In any case, I was just wondering. The Porsche instructions proudly claim that it took 3 years of work to get this set done. And it still ends up with a 'bad' gearbox.

At the same time, other builders are able to create (relative) smoothly working gearboxes, that are in the correct order, have the correct amount of reverse gears and are sometimes even remote controlled.

Even while using pieces already in existence (the Porsche uses new pieces in the gearbox).

I'm wondering (and here's the actual question): was it really not possible to create a better gearbox in those 3 years? Just like the 'hobby-builders'?

Was there a deadline and was the build rushed in the end (although if it was, they'd probably not tell )?

Now, I know that it's probably a question that they're not 'allowed' to answer or something, which I understand.

But, I'm more interested in if some of the Technic designers are willing (and allowed) to share some thoughts regarding the Porsche and especially the gearbox.

The problem is probably buildability. I have created a working 8-speed sequential paddle-shifter that actually works with RC, but it uses strange building techniques that the casual instruction-user probably wouldn't want to do. Several times I had to bend the entire structure to get a crucial piece in. Either that or the majority of the MOC-ers on this site would be good replacements for the current LEGO designers...

[legolijntje]

So, do we ever get some answers on some of these questions?

The Fan Media Days were over 2 weeks ago

[Jim]

So, do we ever get some answers on some of these questions?

The Fan Media Days were over 2 weeks ago

Good point!

I think Cloney is still working on his report, but I will send him a PM.