Future Castle Sets?

[x105Black]

30 minutes ago, SirBlake said:

When I use it, unless specifically referencing specific themes or sets, that's exactly what I mean. Specific aesthetic and design philosophy. For example: Kingdoms certainly qualifies.

Though for the sake of clarity, I think I tend to use the term "traditional castle" rather than "classic" because classic can sound like it's only referring to old stuff.

Same.  Although I often do talk about a revival of Classic Castle, I also usually capitalize as such when talking about the original factions and sets.

[Bricked1980]

1 hour ago, Aanchir said:

It's super confusing to read things about "classic castle" here because compared to Classic Space (which is usually used to refer to a specific aesthetic and design philosophy), I'm never sure when people say "classic castle" whether they mean something with specific throwbacks to the original LEGO Castle set designs, or just castle in the generic sense which encompasses such wide-ranging aesthetics as Dragon Masters, Royal Knights, Fantasy Era, Kingdoms, Forestmen, etc.

Apologies if the wording wasn't very clear in my original post. When I used the term "classic castle" I was basically refering to all of the traditional style castle waves that were around between 1978 and 2013.

I don't expect that they would re-release classic sets from years gone by but my hope is that maybe they could release a brand new traditional style castle theme that perhaps pays homage to some of older factions and themes, in the same kind of way that the pirates theme did when it was resurrected in 2015. Although hopefully any future castle themes will last longer than the short lived 2015 pirates did.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Bricked1980

[x105Black]

I think there's also a bit of a disparity between those old themes.  People will say Fantasy to refer specifically to that era.  I usually don't mean sub-themes like KK / KK2, Fright Knights, Vikings, Ninja, or Fantasy when I refer to classic Castle.  That said, I'd prefer any of those to another Nexo Knights.

[BrickJagger]

And here I was, thinking that the "Classic Castle" that everyone has been referring to was every faction from 1978-2014. That raises the question: exactly when does the "Classic" period end?

Also, pining for a comeback of Classic Castle is pretty irrational. There's almost no chance that Lego would go back to those kinds of sets. For the upcoming Castle theme, we likely have three possible outcomes, Fantasy Era II, a theme that resembles Kingdoms, or a one-off like Castle 2013. Anything else is probably too far of a reach at the current moment.

[Lord Insanity]

Did everyone miss the highly likely rumors of the return of the Harry Potter theme?  More specifically the one about the giant D2C Hogwarts Castle.  I have a bad feeling HP will be the new "castle" theme for a while.  Much like SW basically is the "space" theme right now. ( Yes I know they have run other space themes alongside SW, but by all accounts they have been considered failures.)

Don't misunderstand, I would love a return of Fantasy Era / Kingdoms style sets. (I consider those to be a single design style. All the fig colors and heraldry are complementary to the point I use the Kingdoms Lions and Dragons as vassals for my Crown Knights.)

I just get the impression people are really missing the obvious here.  I hope I am wrong.

[BrickJagger]

Just now, Lord Insanity said:

Did everyone miss the highly likely rumors of the return of the Harry Potter theme?  More specifically the one about the giant D2C Hogwarts Castle.  I have a bad feeling HP will be the new "castle" theme for a while.  Much like SW basically is the "space" theme right now. ( Yes I know they have run other space themes alongside SW, but by all accounts they have been considered failures.)

Don't misunderstand, I would love a return of Fantasy Era / Kingdoms style sets. (I consider those to be a single design style. All the fig colors and heraldry are complementary to the point I use the Kingdoms Lions and Dragons as vassals for my Crown Knights.)

I just get the impression people are really missing the obvious here.  I hope I am wrong.

KK2, Fantasy Era, and Kingdoms all came out during Harry Potter's original run. It's not going to interfere with it.

[Artanis I]

36 minutes ago, BrickJagger said:

And here I was, thinking that the "Classic Castle" that everyone has been referring to was every faction from 1978-2014. That raises the question: exactly when does the "Classic" period end?

Everyone means something different when they use the terms "castle" "classic castle" "vintage castle" & "traditional castle"

[x105Black]

2 hours ago, Lord Insanity said:

 I have a bad feeling HP will be the new "castle" theme for a while.  Much like SW basically is the "space" theme right now.

That is a very bad feeling.  Let's hope that is not the case (for both Castle and Space).

[Roebuck]

3 hours ago, Lord Insanity said:

I have a bad feeling HP will be the new "castle" theme for a while.

I do not think that is the case, I believe we even had a classic castle wave when LOTR where in shops.. If it is the case; I love HP so that is a price I can pay, NK gave me nexo too nothing (1 minifig) from all those sets, totally useless

[Bricked1980]

5 hours ago, BrickJagger said:

And here I was, thinking that the "Classic Castle" that everyone has been referring to was every faction from 1978-2014. That raises the question: exactly when does the "Classic" period end?

I would say the Classic period ended in 1998. It was then re-launched in 2000 as Knights Kingdom and followed with the various other Kingdoms and Castles themes until 2013. Although each of these themes have their differences with some having more fantasy elements than others, they were all basically just an evolution of the original Castle theme from 1978, in the same way that Lego City is an evolution of the original Lego Town theme. This is the way I've always looked on it anyway. TLG simply altered the style to make it appeal to the different generations of children.

One could argue that Nexo Knights was simply the next evolution of the theme just with the fantasy elements turned up to max. I look on Nexo Knights as a separate thing altogether though. It involves Knights but that is where the similarity ends. It was Lego's attempt to try and create it's own franchise similar to Ninjago which would spawn TV shows, video games, comics etc.

Now that Nexo Knights is out of the way I'm sure that we will see a return to the traditional Castle series in some form. Maybe it will still include a lot of fantasy elements but as long as it stays grounded in a medieval setting/era, then that is ok with me.

[MAB]

Funny enough there was this vote about which Classic themes people wanted to return.

Classic Castle, Classic Space, Classic Pirates, Classic Town or All. I was the only person to vote none. I don't want to see any of them return. To me Classic Castle means the old sets and building styles. I don't want yellow blocky castles (surely the most famous Classic Castle of them all), old brick built horses, rather plain looking factions. We now have many more brick styles, better printing on minifigs, a wider range of colours. I want any new sets to be using modern bricks and styles. I want traditional castle.

Same with Space. I don't want just mainly blue spaceships with yellow windscreens.

I way prefer what LEGO City sets look like these days compared to the old Town.

 

6 hours ago, Lord Insanity said:

Did everyone miss the highly likely rumors of the return of the Harry Potter theme?  More specifically the one about the giant D2C Hogwarts Castle.  I have a bad feeling HP will be the new "castle" theme for a while.  Much like SW basically is the "space" theme right now. ( Yes I know they have run other space themes alongside SW, but by all accounts they have been considered failures.)

 

1

They also managed to do the Disney Castle alongside NK.

 

[Digger of Bricks]

2 hours ago, MAB said:

Classic Castle, Classic Space, Classic Pirates, Classic Town or All. I was the only person to vote none. I don't want to see any of them return. To me Classic Castle means the old sets and building styles. I don't want yellow blocky castles (surely the most famous Classic Castle of them all), old brick built horses, rather plain looking factions. We now have many more brick styles, better printing on minifigs, a wider range of colours. I want any new sets to be using modern bricks and styles. I want traditional castle.

Come on, you must know that the majority of people who are clamouring for "Classic" sets aren't asking for complete remakes or throwbacks to those lines, only for the return of those archetypical themes in a broad sense. Irrespective of various individuals opinions about specific past subthemes of those lines (Galaxy Squad, Kingdoms, 2015 Pirates, etc.), most I'm pretty sure are simply wishing for new iterations to add on to those lines' legacy.

[Bricked1980]

So what do people think is the most likely to happen in 2019 - Either the return of a traditional style Castle theme or a revival of Lego Pirates?

I can't imagine they would relaunch both at the same time so my money is on Lego Pirates for next year. It will be the 30th anniversary plus we haven't had anything Pirate related since 2015 except for the Creator Pirate roller coaster coming out next summer. Come to think of it maybe the roller coaster is a teaser for new Pirate sets coming soon.

I also feel that TLG would probably want to leave a bit of a gap after Nexo Knights before they release anything else Castle related.

[MAB]

1 hour ago, Digger of Bricks said:

Come on, you must know that the majority of people who are clamouring for "Classic" sets aren't asking for complete remakes or throwbacks to those lines, only for the return of those archetypical themes in a broad sense. Irrespective of various individuals opinions about specific past subthemes of those lines (Galaxy Squad, Kingdoms, 2015 Pirates, etc.), most I'm pretty sure are simply wishing for new iterations to add on to those lines' legacy.

Yet tell someone Galaxy Squad is Classic Space and they will laugh at you. And if you MOC and don't have the correct mix of blue and grey with yellow windscreens, it is not Classic Space. If you have the newer style helmet, it is not Classic Space.

Same with the many subthemes of Castle.

[x105Black]

On the topic of the "Classic" label, this thread breaks it down quite well:
 

And, according to the polls in that thread, "Classic Castle (Crusaders/Falcons/Forestmen/Dragon Knights/Wolfpack Renegades)" is a clear winner as far as favorite Castle themes, with "Fantasy Era (Crownies/Skellie/Dwarves/Trolls)" coming in second with roughly half as many votes, and "Kingdoms (New Crusaders/Green Dragon/Leo/Black Dragon)" coming in third with half as many still.

As far as factions go, Forestmen are in the lead, with Falcons and Wolfpack rounding out the top 3 in votes.

I don't think that LEGO could go wrong with a medieval fantasy theme that included the Black Falcon faction as the knights, Forestmen as another good faction, and some fantasy enemies as the villains.  Throw in a couple of elves fighting with the Forestmen, and add in a Dragon Knight riding a nice big dragon.  If you wanted a unique King, he could still have Crown / Lion heraldry if necessary.  They could even go one step further and make sets with Wolfpack bandits and villagers.  Maybe leave that for the second wave.  Even a 1 year theme could have 2 or 3 waves.

Those are just my thoughts, and I understand the concept that this is a poll with votes from the AFOL community.  But I also get sick of hearing how these are 'kids toys' and that we aren't the 'target audience' because kids do love this medieval fantasy stuff.  The only thing decided by AFOLs in this poll is essentially which logos adorn the uniforms, shields, and flags.

[SirBlake]

That's the dream. I've had fun with the mental exercise of building out the next theme, which would be pretty much that.

Knights (lions, falcons, griffins, whatever as long as the heraldry art is good like Kingdoms was), Elves (with Forestmen type builds), Dwarves

And for bad guys, Orcs/Trolls, Undead, Wolfpack.

You can't tell me that wouldn't sell, but I'm sure TLG has plenty of focus group junk that would say that it needs helicopters and tanks and video games and TV shows to be successful.

Edited February 2, 2018 by SirBlake

[gedren_y]

I still think getting away from medieval Europe for a while would be best. Sets based on the fables of the ancient world would be doable. Most set pricing could be mid-range. Include enough information about the fable to give it some educational value. I can see it having a wide market appeal without tying it to the cost and restrictions of a license.

[Jimbobulus]

3 hours ago, gedren_y said:

I still think getting away from medieval Europe for a while would be best. Sets based on the fables of the ancient world would be doable. Most set pricing could be mid-range. Include enough information about the fable to give it some educational value. I can see it having a wide market appeal without tying it to the cost and restrictions of a license.

Do you mean class civ stuff like Ancient Greece? I've always wanted sets like that

[gedren_y]

1 hour ago, Jimbobulus said:

Do you mean class civ stuff like Ancient Greece? I've always wanted sets like that

Starting with fables from around the ancient world, some rooted in historical fact, some in the realm of gods and monsters. The Labors of Heracles, Jason and the Argonauts, the events at Marathon, the Trojan War, the works of Homer, the Epic of Gilgamesh, and many more. I'm not as conversant with the fables of the Asian peoples, but I think Journey to the West might fall into this category. The Americas have some stories that can be mined without treading on the faiths of existing native peoples. Though the Pacific Islanders' stories tread a fine line, Lego seemed to have no problem with doing sets for the movie Moana. African stories I couldn't even guess at, but some from Ancient Egypt would likely fit as well. The Roman period also have some that are closer to historical fact, but tread the line into fantasy. The British Isles have a wealth of heroes from the Roman period. By the time most of the earlier fodder has been mined, then the medieval period stories get mined. Beowulf, Arthur, Taliesin, Robin Hood, Charlemagne, Robert the Bruce (and the spider), among others. Then come the Enlightenment with some of Shakespeare's works, and the infamous Nostradamus. That and the stories of the age of exploration on up through and into the modern era. Tarzan, Rudyard Kipling's The Jungle Book, the early American frontier stories, and the works of Jules Vern.

[x105Black]

18 minutes ago, gedren_y said:

Starting with fables from around the ancient world, some rooted in historical fact, some in the realm of gods and monsters. The Labors of Heracles, Jason and the Argonauts, the events at Marathon, the Trojan War, the works of Homer, the Epic of Gilgamesh, and many more. I'm not as conversant with the fables of the Asian peoples, but I think Journey to the West might fall into this category. The Americas have some stories that can be mined without treading on the faiths of existing native peoples. Though the Pacific Islanders' stories tread a fine line, Lego seemed to have no problem with doing sets for the movie Moana. African stories I couldn't even guess at, but some from Ancient Egypt would likely fit as well. The Roman period also have some that are closer to historical fact, but tread the line into fantasy. The British Isles have a wealth of heroes from the Roman period. By the time most of the earlier fodder has been mined, then the medieval period stories get mined. Beowulf, Arthur, Taliesin, Robin Hood, Charlemagne, Robert the Bruce (and the spider), among others. Then come the Enlightenment with some of Shakespeare's works, and the infamous Nostradamus. That and the stories of the age of exploration on up through and into the modern era. Tarzan, Rudyard Kipling's The Jungle Book, the early American frontier stories, and the works of Jules Vern.

That could be an interesting Historic Theme unto itself, but hopefully it wouldn't take away from more traditional medieval fantasy Castle themes.  It'd be nicer to see both.

[Lord Insanity]

22 hours ago, BrickJagger said:

KK2, Fantasy Era, and Kingdoms all came out during Harry Potter's original run. It's not going to interfere with it.

 

19 hours ago, Roebuck said:

I do not think that is the case, I believe we even had a classic castle wave when LOTR where in shops.. If it is the case; I love HP so that is a price I can pay, NK gave me nexo too nothing (1 minifig) from all those sets, totally useless

I hope you are both correct in this assumption.  However I should point out that back then we didn't have several themes like Ninjago, Superheros (DC & Marvel), and Minecraft that compete for valuable shelf space today.

Heck you could make a compelling argument that Minecraft is currently making the kinds of things AFOLs would love to see in a Medieval theme.  (Farms, Villages, tree-house outposts.)  While AFOLs would tend to view Minecraft vs Castle as being as different as Duplo vs Technic I doubt the Lego corporate suits do.  I would bet that to the corporate suits the Kingdoms 7189 Mill Village Raid and the Minecraft 21144 The Farm Cottage are the same basic set concept. 

I really hope I am completely wrong in my assessment and we will get a cool new castle theme in a year or so.  I would love to see a classical era theme too.  (Greeks, Romans, Egyptians)  I would even be willing to let Castle take a break if it meant would would get a high quality classical era theme for a few years.

[x105Black]

3 hours ago, Lord Insanity said:

Heck you could make a compelling argument that Minecraft is currently making the kinds of things AFOLs would love to see in a Medieval theme.  (Farms, Villages, tree-house outposts.)  While AFOLs would tend to view Minecraft vs Castle as being as different as Duplo vs Technic I doubt the Lego corporate suits do.  I would bet that to the corporate suits the Kingdoms 7189 Mill Village Raid and the Minecraft 21144 The Farm Cottage are the same basic set concept. 

Gosh, I really hope not.  Minecraft is so specific that I feel it can't really fulfill the same things that Castle can.

[Aanchir]

15 hours ago, x105Black said:

Gosh, I really hope not.  Minecraft is so specific that I feel it can't really fulfill the same things that Castle can.

If the LEGO higher-ups didn't think that Ninjago and Ninja Turtles were incompatible, I doubt they'd harbor any such illusions about Castle and Minecraft. Especially since so many of the Minecraft sets cover stuff like farms and houses that AFOLs love in Castle themes but the themes themselves usually treat as a secondary consideration. Only a select few Minecraft sets depict things that could actually be described as castles or dragons, and hardly any depict things like siege engines, prison towers, and prison carriages that LEGO tends to give high priority in their castle themes.

If we do get a new Castle theme it'll be interesting to see if the sets do in fact outsell Nexo Knights sets or not. I've seen a lot of people suggest that a traditional castle theme would have outsold Nexo Knights, but I've seen far less actual evidence to suggest that — at best, it tends to be backed by a combination of conventional wisdom and wishful thinking.

[x105Black]

2 hours ago, Aanchir said:

If we do get a new Castle theme it'll be interesting to see if the sets do in fact outsell Nexo Knights sets or not. I've seen a lot of people suggest that a traditional castle theme would have outsold Nexo Knights, but I've seen far less actual evidence to suggest that — at best, it tends to be backed by a combination of conventional wisdom and wishful thinking.

We would, of course, have to take into consideration the overall quality and appeal of the theme and sets themselves.  Remember, there were many people who weren't all that excited about Castle 2013 and considered it to be lesser than other Castle themes.  If we were to get something like that again, I can almost assure you that the sales figures will not be optimal.

[Itaria No Shintaku]

Some considerations some of you may find interesting.

1) If they wanted to do a Castle wave for the next year after seeing that NK has bad sales... they are late. From scratch to shelves it takes more than one year. So if they thought to have castle themes, they would have already started at least the ideation process. Which may be true of course

2) Having a lunch with some interesting people at TLG, they seem to know very well that we love historic themes, and they say they would love too to see such themes. But since we are not the target... that's it.