Bionicle 2015 Discussion

[Iben]

Or you could just not participate in discussion on G2 if all you're going to be is negative. It can't be fun for you to be so negative, surely? I mean, it's certainly no fun for us.

Really ? TBH, I hate forums where things like this are done. The "if you ain't got something good to say shut up"-attitude annoys me much more than people not liking something I do like. What's so wrong about him voicing his opinion ? If we are allowed to voice ours when we like it, it's only fair he's allowed to do so if he doesn't.

Not allowing someone to have a negative opinion on something just because you have a positive opinion on it is no fun for anyone really.

-Iben

[TheDesuComplex]

Question is: should I risk/go for it, or hold out to see if it ends up being a GWP somewhere? I know it's definitely not a GWP in September anywhere, I've seen the European store newsletter for September and it's not shown there. But it might be an October or November GWP, who knows.

I'd say hold out.

I think it's extremely unlikely that the "villain pack" will not be released anywhere else. At this point I feel it's just a question of where and when.

I'm still holding out that it is a GWP in the month of October to celebrate Halloween (in the US at least) with a spooky scary golden Skull mask.

[Frozen Assasin]

Oh great ! Finally something that is exclusive to Russia ! (Well, that doesn't matter for me anymore, 'cause I left it 10 years ago.)

Mind if I submit your tirade to the Lunacy of Lego Man values blog? They haven't had much material in the past few months.

Yeah, fine.in case you're wondering - I know this blog. And it is great. It's a true honor to be represented there.

Really ? TBH, I hate forums where things like this are done. The "if you ain't got something good to say shut up"-attitude annoys me much more than people not liking something I do like. What's so wrong about him voicing his opinion ? If we are allowed to voice ours when we like it, it's only fair he's allowed to do so if he doesn't.

Not allowing someone to have a negative opinion on something just because you have a positive opinion on it is no fun for anyone really.

-Iben

*Insert Thank You gif*.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Frozen Assasin

[Fulcrumfan91]

Mind if I submit your tirade to the Lunacy of Lego Man values blog? They haven't had much material in the past few months.

That was extremely unnecessary. He/she is free to share his/her own opinion so that it can be debated.

Edited August 27, 2015 by lambda_cla3391

[Alexander The Great]

I believe G2 isn't bad but it isn't that great. I am not against aiming towards kids. I'm against its cheapness. I feel it practically everywhere in G2: from amount of sets in the second half year to the animations.

Oh, yes, animations are more bad than good. Very unfortunately :(

[Aanchir]

I believe G2 isn't bad but it isn't that great. I am not against aiming towards kids. I'm against its cheapness. I feel it practically everywhere in G2: from amount of sets in the second half year to the animations.

Is it really "cheap" to have fewer sets in the second half year than the first? It seems to me that's what the LEGO Group does with a lot of their themes, even the ones that are a really big deal for them. Look at last year's LEGO Movie sets: fourteen sets (and a collectible minifigure series!) in the first half of the year, just three in the second. Or at Ninjago's debut year in 2011: ten playsets, ten spinner sets, and a spinner starter set in the first half of the year; just five playsets and four spinner sets and in the second half of the year. Or this year's Elves sets: six sets in the first half of the year, just two in the second half.

For that matter, look at the European release pattern for the 2001 Bionicle range: six heroes and six supporters in the first half of the year, five enemies in the second half of the year. Seem familiar?

[Frozen Assasin]

Well, maybe because we got six great titans, and not half-mashed Skeletons.

[Alexander The Great]

I don't count 2001. It was too long ago. BTW rahi were large sets and manas had power motors. And in 2015 we don't have any large sets.

But I count every next year of BIONICLE where we got at least 6 sets every half year.

Ninjago has a lot more sets than BIONICLE. City, Star Wars - I can continue this list.

I don't want BIONICLE to be like Elves.

I want it to be BIONICLE.

[Aanchir]

I don't count 2001. It was too long ago. BTW rahi were large sets and manas had power motors. And in 2015 we don't have any large sets.

But I count every next year of BIONICLE where we got at least 6 sets every half year.

Ninjago has a lot more sets than BIONICLE. City, Star Wars - I can continue this list.

I don't want BIONICLE to be like Elves.

I want it to be BIONICLE.

The way LEGO handled Bionicle five to ten years ago when it was a theme in decline is not necessarily the ideal way for Bionicle to be handled. You're right that Ninjago is a much bigger theme than Bionicle, but that doesn't at all change that the "big 1HY wave, small 2HY wave" seems to have a proven track record for success. Ninjago's debut year was the LEGO Group's most successful launch for a new product range ever. The 2014 LEGO Movie range, too, was incredibly successful. So why would the LEGO Group mimicking this release pattern for Bionicle be a bad thing?

Plus, one of the reasons Bionicle was so successful is because of how affordable the sets were. This is part of why large creature and vehicle sets like the Rahi never sold as well as the smaller and more affordable heroes and villains. Particularly the Manas, which was an abysmal failure — there's a reason LEGO never released another motorized Bionicle set. So I don't think it's too surprising that the creators of the Bionicle reboot chose to make the enemy characters for 2015 Toa-sized instead of releasing them as titan sets that are outside many potential buyers' reach financially.

If this year's sets sell well, then maybe that might encourage the LEGO Group to expand the theme to include more larger sets. But for now, they're playing it safe by sticking with a more affordable price range that is supported by their experiences with other recent constraction themes like Hero Factory. I think this is a much better strategy than taking huge risks with $35-and-up sets before the theme even has a chance to generate a new audience.

[Alexander The Great]

I said that I did't like cheapness in G2 at all.

You've explained the reasons of this cheapness.

So?

[Bigger Fish]

That was extremely unnecessary. He/she is free to share his/her own opinion so that it can be debated.

I know, I was just joking due to the fact that the blog I mentioned is an archive of LEGO drama, and their statement seemed to cause quite a bit of it.

[Phoenix_Flare]

*sigh* I guess I should throw in my two cents: *ahem* I've been with Bionicle since it's beginning. I've seen the fandom grow and develop. It CAN be arrogant and very, very opinionated but aren't ALL fandoms that way? I love the community despite all of this. Some of you may know that even though I've been with Bionicle since the beginning, I like Hero Factory a bit more. Mainly due to it's overall simplicity (sets, story, etc). One thing ALL OF US has to remember: In the end it's a Children's toy line. Of course it's going to start out light hearted. But once the new generation gets a bit older, I'm sure that Bionicle G2 will become more mature. Just look at Ninjago - it started very childish but as the years went on it got more darker. Just give it time guys; things will get better .

I even like this new Bionicle more than the old. AND I'M 19! Just Let it Go and Don't Lose Your Way.

Edited August 27, 2015 by Phoenix_Flare

[Toa Eljay]

My apologies for not knowing, but is there a G1 vs. G2 topic anywhere? That might be a good place for the majority of this discussion. Granted, it is still pertaining to 2015, so I may be wrong. If this reply isn't supposed to be here... I'm sorry!

You want your Toa to be the member of Order of Mata Nui? Too bad, Toa can't be members of Order of Mata Nui.

I agree with the majority of your post, however I just wanted to point out one thing. I may come off like a tad bit of a pill for this (I don't mean to), but technically they can be. =P Heck, it's founder is one.

I don't count 2001. It was too long ago. BTW rahi were large sets and manas had power motors. And in 2015 we don't have any large sets.

But I count every next year of BIONICLE where we got at least 6 sets every half year.

Ninjago has a lot more sets than BIONICLE. City, Star Wars - I can continue this list.

I don't want BIONICLE to be like Elves.

I want it to be BIONICLE.

Not counting a year just because it doesn't fit into a certain argument isn't proper arguing. 2001 counts as well as any other year, really.

Well, maybe because we got six great titans, and not half-mashed Skeletons.

That's an opinion. The 01 titans (if you can call them that) were riddled with issues and hang-ups that certainly takes them down a few pegs.

In regards to the whole debate regarding how many sets got released when, I whipped this up. I hope it's helpful, and please correct any inaccuracies if you guys find any.

2001: First half: 18 (Toa, Turaga, McToran)

Second half: 5 (Rahi)

2002: First half: 12 (Bohrok, Va)

Second half: 10 (Nuva, 3 titans, Master Builder)

2003: First half: 12 (03Toran, Bohrak-Kal)

Second half: 10 (Rahkshi, 4 titans not counting Takutanuva)

2004: First half: 12 (Metru, Metrutoran)

Second half: 10 (4 titans not counting Ultimate Dume)

2005: First half: 12 (Hordika, Rahaga)

Second half: 11 (Hagah, Visorak, 3 titans not counting Voporak)

2006: First half: 13 (Piraka, Voyatoran, Irnakk)

Second half: 10 (Inika, 4 titans not counting Kardas)

2007: First half: 11 (Barraki, Nocturn, 4 small sets)

Second half: 11 (Mahri, 5 titans)

2008: First half: 15 (3 Toa, 3 Makuta, Kardatoran, 3 titans)

Second half: 12 ( 3 Toa, 3 Makuta, 6 large sets not counting the Yellow Jetrax)

2009: First half: 14 (6 Glatorian, Agori, 2 titans)

Second half: 12 (Legends, 6 large sets)

2010: First half: 6

2015: First half: 13 (Toa, Protectors, LoSS)

Second half: 5 (4 skull villains, EvK)

Edited August 28, 2015 by Toa Eljay

[MakutaOfWar]

@Toa Eljay: ^The Mctoran wouldn't necessarily count would they? They were happy meal promo's I thought. Also 2001 was one half year. And did you include Mutran/Ignika/Icarax in the first half of 08'? XD Sorry, I'm picky.

[Toa Eljay]

@Toa Eljay: ^The Mctoran wouldn't necessarily count would they? They were happy meal promo's I thought. Also 2001 was one half year. And did you include Mutran/Ignika/Icarax in the first half of 08'? XD Sorry, I'm picky.

I wouldn't count them, but I threw them in since I believe most people would. And whoops, only got Ignika and Icarax... Lemme throw in a 3!

[TheDesuComplex]

In regards to the whole debate regarding how many sets got released when, I whipped this up. I hope it's helpful, and please correct any inaccuracies if you guys find any.

2001: First half: 18 (Toa, Turaga, McToran)

Second half: 5 (Rahi)

2002: First half: 12 (Bohrok, Va)

Second half: 10 (Nuva, 3 titans, Master Builder)

2003: First half: 12 (03Toran, Bohrak-Kal)

Second half: 10 (Rahkshi, 4 titans not counting Takutanuva)

2004: First half: 12 (Metru, Metrutoran)

Second half: 10 (4 titans not counting Ultimate Dume)

2005: First half: 12 (Hordika, Rahaga)

Second half: 11 (Hagah, Visorak, 3 titans not counting Voporak)

2006: First half: 13 (Piraka, Voyatoran, Irnakk)

Second half: 10 (Inika, 4 titans not counting Kardas)

2007: First half: 11 (Barraki, Nocturn, 4 small sets)

Second half: 11 (Mahri, 5 titans)

2008: First half: 15 (3 Toa, 3 Makuta, Kardatoran, 3 titans)

Second half: 12 ( 3 Toa, 3 Makuta, 6 large sets not counting the Yellow Jetrax)

2009: First half: 14 (6 Glatorian, Agori, 2 titans)

Second half: 12 (Legends, 6 large sets)

2010: First half: 6

2015: First half: 13 (Toa, Protectors, LoSS)

Second half: 5 (4 skull villains, EvK)

Thank you for this objective look at the numbers. While I think this whole thing of calling 2015 releases 'cheap' for not having as many sets in the second half as in the first half is absurd and in no way reflective of how much effort and budget has been put into the year, I can see where it is coming from, as it seems for the majority of Bionicle's run it had roughly an equal number going from one release to the next. I myself am happy with the pattern that 2015 shares with 2001, as it leaves wiggle room for the second wave to do something weird and fun.

[Mandate]

We've had more sets this year for BIONICLE than we did Agents' or the original Batman line's full run, as well as Exo-Force's first or second year. All three of those lines are fan favorites, too. BIONICLE's got it better than most realize.

[GK733]

We've had more sets this year for BIONICLE than we did Agents' or the original Batman line's full run, as well as Exo-Force's first or second year. All three of those lines are fan favorites, too. BIONICLE's got it better than most realize.

Don't forget the fact this year was more expensive than most of it's >2008 years (not counting in the playsets because just... ugh) even if we "only" had 18 sets. And by the looks of it Winter 2016 is going to cost at least five bucks more, depending of the estimated 30$ cost of Kopaka and Melum if it will go up from that.

[ToaDraco]

Yeah you can't just go by number of sets, you have to take into account price and size. Heck, the Toa we got this year are almost Titan-sized sets compared to most of G1 and the Protectors are about the size and price of G1 Toa. So in G1 terms, we got 7 Titans(Including LoSS) and 6 Canister-sized sets for the first half of the year.

[Frozen Assasin]

Yeah you can't just go by number of sets, you have to take into account price and size. Heck, the Toa we got this year are almost Titan-sized sets compared to most of G1 and the Protectors are about the size and price of G1 Toa. So in G1 terms, we got 7 Titans(Including LoSS) and 6 Canister-sized sets for the first half of the year.

Yup. But in brick - per - price ratio and the overal piece count they don't even come close to the Titans of G1. They come much closer to the Toa, as well as the Protectors.

Even Kulta vs Ekimu has a lower piece count than the Titans of G1 (of maybe they just come close) and that are two sets.

Also, if they really wanted to spend money on the Bionicle series it would

a) gotten a much bigger advertising campaign.

b) Much better animations , comparable to NinjaGo in length and story-line, released on TV (and if they really loved us, made by Ghosts)

c) More graphic novels

d) announce the return of CryoShell - togheter with music and (maybe) even a new album

e) have the same people as G1 for story and design,

f) I'm running out of letters

[Logan McOwen]

Anyway...

So I got Island of Lost Masks yesterday and read though it before I went to bed, and I must admit that my expectations were probably a little too high.

The story is great. I love how it focuses on each of the Toa’s individual journeys before they meet up, instead of focusing entirely on Tahu like the animations. The sequence before the Toa with Bingzak and Nilkuu was really nice too.

Without giving too much away, the journey through the city takes up about a quarter of the book, which I felt was a bit rushed. It would’ve been nice if the Toa were more investigatory of their surroundings, learning more about the city’s past. Also, I felt that the final sequence was somewhat rushed. All in all though, it was still a good part of the book.

In regards to learning new things in the book, other then what’s likely going to happen in the last few animations, we don’t learn too much at all. Which is fine really, considering that there’s a second book for this year coming out soon that’ll likely have more titbits for us to take in. But it’s still not a lot of new information really.

Also, much to my satisfaction, are some titbits here and there that suggest that the characters are indeed mechanoid to a significant degree. For example, Ekimu’s joints are said to be rusty when he exits his sarcophagus, and the tail that Vizuna apparently possesses is said to be specially fitted with sensors. Also, there’s various bits here and there which point to the characters having metallic bodies - the term “armour” is used often. However, it is mentioned on two occasions that Tahu has the sense of smell, so they may well be biomechanical like in G1. I’m not particularly disappointed that that’s not really clarified one way or the other however, as that leaves everyone open to assume what they wish.

Overall, I enjoyed it. It’s clear that it’s not really intended for somebody my age, as the writing style is very simplistic, but it was still quite fun. I just felt that it was a little rushed, although again that’s likely due to the intended audience of it.

Definitely worth getting if you’re a G2 fan, but don’t expect anything akin to Rowling, Morpurgo or Pratchett.

Edited August 28, 2015 by LewiMOC

[Frozen Assasin]

Is it anything akin to the books written by Kapka ?

[Logan McOwen]

I wouldn't know, as I've not read them.

[Mandate]

Also, if they really wanted to spend money on the Bionicle series it would

a) gotten a much bigger advertising campaign.

b) Much better animations , comparable to NinjaGo in length and story-line, released on TV (and if they really loved us, made by Ghosts)

c) More graphic novels

d) announce the return of CryoShell - togheter with music and (maybe) even a new album

e) have the same people as G1 for story and design,

f) I'm running out of letters

"If they really wanted to spend money on the BIONICLE series"

I think that's a perfectly fine summary of everything wrong with what you are trying to say, and to me it really comes across as the driving factor of why LEGO has not done anything you listed. LEGO's goal as a company is NOT to spend money. If LEGO's goal was to spend money, G1 would still be running today regardless of sales. LEGO at this stage wants to spend only as much money as they need to to get the line off the ground and profitable, and if it becomes as profitable as, say, NINJAGO they will boost the budget as much as they think will be reasonable for what is essentially a marketing campaign.

It isn't LEGO's job to cater to fans on internet forums, but it is very nice when they listen to the (reasonable) desires of the community. It isn't LEGO's job to spend money, it's to make the right decisions that will give them the right amount of profit. Making high-quality products ties into this, and so does not overspending on a line that has not yet proven itself.

[Frozen Assasin]

It has. They spended gigantic amounts of money on the marketing campaign of the first year of NinjaGo, a line that was just designed and created and of which they were much less sure that it would pay off. For Bionicle - not so much, despite it having a gigantic fanbase and 10 years of history.

Edited August 28, 2015 by Frozen Assasin