Marvel Superheroes 2026 - Rumors & Discussion

[CloneCommando99]

Not particularly a Lego question, but regarding Doomsday…

Where the heck is War Machine? He is the character who makes the most sense to be there, either being assigned by Valentina to act as New Avenger leader or get invited onto Sam’s team. You’d think they’d want the public optics of having Iron Man’s bestie on their team to help with legitimacy.
 

Thor’s off-world. Iron Man, Black Widow, Scarlet Witch and Vision (publicly presumed) are dead. Hawkeye and Steve Rogers are retired. Hulk is in no position to be a useful and trustworthy asset currently. Rhodey is literally the only real Avenger aside from Falcon Cap who’s left. (Ok Antman too, but Rhodey and Sam were Avengers since 2015 and therefore have better credentials)

If I was Falcon Cap, I’d be prioritising getting the one available real Avenger onto my team rather than putting another regular dude with a jetpack on the team. Similar thoughts if I was CIA director and could put the colonel in question on assignment, not to mention how he would add a much needed powerhouse to my punch and shoot team that’s not the unstable twink who can’t even use his powers safely.

 

I will give Falcon Cap credit where credit is due. Antman is one of the last appointed Avengers so getting him onboard was a smart thing to do. But it’s just weird that neither he or the New Avengers appear to have poached the one other surviving 2025 Avenger.

[BrickBob Studpants]

16 minutes ago, CloneCommando99 said:

Where the heck is War Machine? 

I blame Secret Invasion. They still never clarified when exactly he got replaced by a Skrull and they probably realised how mind-bogglingly stupid it would be if it did happen during CW, as that awful show implied. Maybe they sidelined him to avoid that awkward topic  And now with Armor Wars cancelled…

[brickbride]

3 hours ago, CloneCommando99 said:

Not particularly a Lego question, but regarding Doomsday…

Where the heck is War Machine?

Again, where the heck's Captain Marvel? Much more powerful than War Machine, currently residing on Earth (and probably bored out of her mind by now), possibly still active military if you can get over her presumed death and decades-long leave of absence (she was never discharged in any case), AND the original Avenger (the entire initiative was named after her). 

As to your question, Val's not that stupid. First of all War Machine is not a powerhouse, he's just a regular guy (with a spinal injury even!) in a robot suit and unlike Tony he can't tinker with it either. He's not much more of an asset than Falconcap. This team has three actual supersoldiers on it, not to mention Bob.

War Machine also, like Falconcap, has zero charisma. And he's supposed to lead the Thunderbolts? On what authority? That would be such a disaster. Only one of them was ever US military (and no longer is) and he may be the least inclined to take orders from superiors by now given where it's gotten him.

I'd almost be willing to pay just to see Wsr Machine try and fail to wrangle the Thunderbolts.

Edited August 11 by brickbride

[Renny The Spaceman]

7 hours ago, Agent Kallus said:

At least somebody watched it... 

'of course I know him he's me' 

So when I saw i don't think there was anything inappropriate I speak from experience though Lego can inconsistent about these things and there something in it they wouldn't love. As for for the show itself it's alright, fun but nothing crazy mind blowing or anything.

Nick Cage doing a film noir detective show was mind blowing enough. Probably is the best live action spidey thing since Raimi, but like there's at most 3 things since then that have been baseline competent so it's slim pickings isn't it. 

[playgood]

2 hours ago, brickbride said:

Again, where the heck's Captain Marvel? Much more powerful than War Machine, currently residing on Earth (and probably bored out of her mind by now), possibly still active military if you can get over her presumed death and decades-long leave of absence (she was never discharged in any case), AND the original Avenger (the entire initiative was named after her). 

As to your question, Val's not that stupid. First of all War Machine is not a powerhouse, he's just a regular guy (with a spinal injury even!) in a robot suit and unlike Tony he can't tinker with it either. He's not much more of an asset than Falconcap. This team has three actual supersoldiers on it, not to mention Bob.

War Machine also, like Falconcap, has zero charisma. And he's supposed to lead the Thunderbolts? On what authority? That would be such a disaster. Only one of them was ever US military (and no longer is) and he may be the least inclined to take orders from superiors by now given where it's gotten him.

I'd almost be willing to pay just to see War Machine try and fail to wrangle the Thunderbolts.

On paper War Machine was set up to have the simplest narrative structure out of all the Avengers post Endgame.

Like you said, he's a man with a robot suit who doesn't know how to tinker with it. You have the set up for a movie or TV show where War Machine's suit takes on more damage as the story progresses while the villain suits become more technologically advanced. There's your narrative stakes. 
 

Spoiler

But Marvel became obsessed with this idea of building up Iron Heart so they can reveal her as a Kang variant (spoilers for a movie that was cancelled I guess) and somehow Armor Wars was kicked down the road, War Machine was left on the bench and became one of the only major characters they could turn into a Skrull without disrupting the pipeline.

 

[Mandalorianknight]

2 hours ago, CloneCommando99 said:

Not particularly a Lego question, but regarding Doomsday…

Where the heck is War Machine? He is the character who makes the most sense to be there, either being assigned by Valentina to act as New Avenger leader or get invited onto Sam’s team. You’d think they’d want the public optics of having Iron Man’s bestie on their team to help with legitimacy.

Out of universe, Rhodey is pretty much a dead asset. He was never a particularly big draw, but they killed what was left by making it so he'd been a skrull for an indeterminate amount of time. Don Cheadle, on the other hand, is a famous actor who I can't imagine is doing this for cheap. I imagine we're at the point where it simply isn't worth it- the claps you'd get from him popping up wouldn't be worth the paycheck.

In universe- Rhodey's power is essentially being iron man's friend. He didn't make the suit and it might be that without Tony he either can't or doesn't want to continue. He's skilled at using the suit, but I believe even currently the government (or Tony back when he was alive) has to maintain and upgrade it for him. He also seems to prefer working as a government agent, and may be retired as war machine regardless, as I don't think we've seen him in the suit after endgame.

I don't think there's a timeline where Rhodey joins the thunderbolts. It seems like he's outside the military chain of command and works directly for the president- so Val can't order him to do anything, and I'd question whether or not he would want to work for her- and I doubt the thunderbolts would accept Val sending them a new leader anyway.

Sam not bringing him along is a little stranger, but at the same time we don't really know anything about Sam's team given he didn't start assembling it until this movie. For all we know Ant-Man and Shang-Chi just show up to the tower on their own. (They both operate in California- is that something? Did they meet separately, become buddies, and just decide to go as the New Avengers what the space crisis is about? Should we get a Scott and Shawn road trip movie?). It's possible he doesn't actually have a team built until this movie- it seems like the F4's ship arriving happens shortly after the Thunderbolts finds out he's suing for the Avengers name, and I believe they even say something like "if he puts together a team"- and that the circumstances simply don't allow time for them to go get Rhodey.

7 hours ago, Agent Kallus said:

OT cast * Avengers probably wouldn't include Mando or a Random Z lister spider-sister. No kid is 'gonna go wow oh wow princess Leia is now Teresa Parker' if you think Leia has to mash over with a female spy character then black widow is right there! Though I still think Cap's a better fit.

At least somebody watched it... 

'of course I know him he's me' 

So when I saw i don't think there was anything inappropriate I speak from experience though Lego can inconsistent about these things and there something in it they wouldn't love. As for for the show itself it's alright, fun but nothing crazy mind blowing or anything.

Yeah, I agree. That's what I was thinking of, like a BNW spoiler set of peters attic apartment maybe with the corner shop below it selling shark fire and flowers with the van as a sidebuild. Include some spoilers characters, reuse Scorpion and Spidey add in some ninjas and boom.

To be fair I did specifically say that that was just for the best character fit, and then the next idea was a selection of more popular characters.

I watched it as well and agree that it's not a show that would give Noir the reputation of Punisher or Daredevil or Deadpool. It's a show with a horror moment and some langauge/violence, but spider-noir himself isn't terrible violent or crass or anything. He drinks, but I don't think that's exactly unique to him in marvel content. Honestly I think most of those episodes were only TV-MA because of the smoking.

That could be a pretty fun set. It'd be funny for us to already have a "repeat" in the minimodular system so to speak, but they're easily different enough apartments for it to be warranted. 

57 minutes ago, brickbride said:

As to your question, Val's not stupid. War Machine who, like Falconcap, has zero charisma, leading the Thunderbolts? On what authority? That would be such a disaster. Only one of them was ever US military (and no longer is) and he may be the least inclined to take orders from superiors by now given where it's gotten him. I might almost be willing to pay just to see it.

Like you say, the Thunderbolts would reject Rhodey, and since Val has no power over them she can't make them accept new leadership. All of them have been burned in their work (unwilling in ghost's case) for US government officials, foreign officials, etc. Bob is the only one who might accept him as leader.

[brickbride]

I have to correct myself - technically two of the Thunderbolts have served in the US Military, not just one, though Bucky's service was a loooong time ago. Yeah, I can't see Yelena, Ava, Alexej, or Bucky accepting orders from War Machine just because he's a Colonel. John Walker would have once upon a time, but between his other than honourable discharge and where his loyal service has gotten him (wife left & took the kid with her, newspaper articles about his fall from grace) I don't think he now would either - if anything I could see him butting heads with Rhodey more than any other member of the team.

Another thing is that we really don't know whether War Machine is even in any reasonable shape to fight. He sustained a spinal injury in CW and while he has seemed to have healed from it, according to Secret Invasion that was all the Skrull imposter. He's briefly seen in TFATWS (or maybe that's the Skrull again, I have a hard time keeping this particular timeline straight) but in any case being able to slowly walk around doesn't mean your body's combat-ready.

Again, trying to recruit Carol would make so much sense for Falconcap for all the reasons given. Not that I'd think she'd work for him either, she's much more powerful than he is and with a much broader focus too (since she's a heroine for the entire galaxy and he's, well, a Captain America). But she might be bored enough to at least show herself cooperating with him on something.

9 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

It's possible he doesn't actually have a team built until this movie- it seems like the F4's ship arriving happens shortly after the Thunderbolts finds out he's suing for the Avengers name, and I believe they even say something like "if he puts together a team"- and that the circumstances simply don't allow time for them to go get Rhodey.

That would be beyond stupid of Falconcap, though - first suing for the name (which takes time) and only afterwards wondering whether there's even any Avengers left to recruit. I can see him waiting to present them to the public only after he's gotten the rights to the name, but he must have at least a core team secured. Which apparently consists of himself, the new Falcon (not an Avenger), Ant-Man (barely an Avenger, and not one with a great personal rep either since he's a criminal who's been to prison), and Shang-Chi (who's flaunting the Ten Rings just after Trevor's revived the Mandarin, wouldn't most of the American public consider him a terrorist threat?). Is Shuri on the team? That would be a smart move on Falconcap's part since she's a princess, not a criminal or supposed terrorist, but not necessarily on her part as it might actually hurt Wakanda's international reputation.

Either way I'm not sure whether the public should be much more receptive to those Avengers than the ones with a z. It would probably be a much smarter move for both teams to set themselves up as "two teams of Avengers working together", which should be entirely feasible given Falconcap's and Bucky's friendship that TFATWS showed us at length. Another question IMO is what happens off-screen to make them so antagonistic to each other. It makes no real sense and just seems like a way to move the plot along.

Edited August 12 by brickbride

[Scarilian]

7 hours ago, CloneCommando99 said:

Where the heck is War Machine?

June 2016 he got kidnapped by a Skrull immediately after the fall in Civil War. In November 2026 he got rescued, but was shown to be paralysed from the waist down. For clarity, December 2028 is when Avengers: Doomsday happens. All Tony Stark/Iron Man tech was taken by the DodC immediately following the events of FFH as shown in NWH. If War Machine had any undamaged suits remaining after Endgame, they would be in the hands of the DodC.

So he's paralysed with no access to the suit likely traumatised from missing a decade of his life coupled with the loss of Tony Stark and the Avengers disbanding.

[BrickBob Studpants]

8 hours ago, Scarilian said:

June 2016 he got kidnapped by a Skrull immediately after the fall in Civil War.

The hospital gown implies that, but was it ever confirmed? Because that would make me hate Secret Invasion even more than I already do  It would mean everything we saw of him in IW and Endgame was just a Skrull, including his final moments with Tony. Maybe the idea was for Armor Wars to show him deal with the fallout from that, which could’ve been pretty interesting, but it‘d still be a moronic retcon in my eyes.

Edited August 12 by BrickBob Studpants

[spiderfan2000]

I'm pretty sure more evidence leans towards the Skrull switch occurring post-Endgame.

Gravik was still working with Fury at least long enough to help retrieve DNA samples from the Avengers in the immediate aftermath of Endgame, and a deleted scene from The Falcon and the Winter Soldier seemed like it was meant to establish Rhodes only very recently demonstrating greater mobility than before after an "upgraded procedure" (which was presumably meant to be when the swap occurred)

[brickbride]

Here's some interviews with the director of SI.

https://collider.com/secret-invasion-finale-director-ali-selim-interview/

With the knowledge that we have now, that important characters have been replaced by Skrulls, did you have conversations with Marvel, with the actors, about that specific timeframe? Were there any clues given or passed on as to when they might have been replaced earlier?

SELIM: Yeah, none of it is me running wild. [Laughs] There are a lot of conversations with Marvel, but it all ends up in the script that Rhodey has been a Skrull, and we can only assume he's been a Skrull since [Captain America] Civil War. And yet, I think the definitive answer is not as much fun as letting the audience go back to Rhodey scenes and unpack it and see what they think. I think that's what Marvel would say, too. "Yeah, it’s an idea, but definitive? Go explore, see what you come up with."

Also: https://www.thewrap.com/secret-invasion-mcu-future-director-ali-selim-interview/

"I didn’t feel any constraints. All I was told is, Fury’s got to go up. That was it,” Selim explained to TheWrap. “So we just had to have Fury go up at the end, and it would be great if Rhodey — if his legs didn’t work. And that’s it.”

So basically they just decided to throw in that "Rhodey might have been a Skrull since CW, or maybe not, who knows or cares". If nothing else to me this confirms that they don't care about the character or his relationships with other characters, and we shouldn't expect any follow-up on it.

Edited August 12 by brickbride

[Scarilian]

@BrickBob Studpants@spiderfan2000@brickbride
He's unfortunately been a Skrull ever since Captain America Civil War:

Spoiler

Ali Selim has confirmed that the dark theory that Rhodey has been a Skrull ever since Captain America: Civil War is actually true.

"Yep. He’s been a Skrull the whole time, yeah," Selim revealed, adding that the reveal has "massive implications" for the MCU. It means Rhodey has been absent for about nine years in the MCU, including for the events of Avengers: Endgame, which saw his best friend, Tony Stark (Robert Downey Jr), sacrifice himself.

So, to be clear, Rhodey doesn't know Tony's dead?

"Presumably," Selim answered. "I think it’s going to take a librarian to go through and pick apart every Rhodey moment up until Secret Invasion, but there’s a lot to be unpacked now and I think a lot of it will be unpacked in Armor Wars, which is where Don is going next."

----

Kevin Feige and the director of Secret Invasion confirmed he was meant to have been a Skrull for multiple prior appearances before Secret Invasion of which means at minimum means Infinity War & Endgame. Don Cheadle said he acted in a way to imply he was taken immediately after his fall in Civil War. As was mentioned they also specifically chose him to be wearing the hospital gown from Civil War when he is rescued.

The version of Armor Wars referred to here was going to be Rhodey processing the grief of Tony Stark's death which manifests in him protecting the legacy of Iron Man which involved Riri Williams and others who are exploiting Stark technology.

Bringing it back around to Lego, I think it's likely they'll have War Machine in Avengers: Secret Wars and thus Avengers: Secret Wars sets. It already seems like they are trying to bridge the gap between Endgame and Avengers: Doomsday/Secret Wars so they'll likely just pretend nothing else happened.

You can still have the emotional beat of a friend grieving, reuniting or avenging his friend's legacy without requiring any reference to the previous appearances.

Unless Armor Wars happens, probably as a partially rebooted Iron Man film staring War Machine, that would likely be his last appearance. So future War Machine figures will likely just be legacy versions, with 2028 being our best chance as the 20th anniversary of the MCU.

[BrickBob Studpants]

@Scarilian: Eurghhhhhh…. So the version of War Machine that had some of the best scenes (making fun of Star-Lord, joking about killing Baby Thanos, fighting alongside Rocket) really was just a Skrull that got unceremoniously slimed by Nick Fury in the end. Great. What were they thinking??

That‘d be like revealing that Nick Fury wasn‘t just a Skrull in FFH (where it was a neat twist explaining his OOC decisions throughout that movie), but TWS as well.

I‘ll consider this line of thought non-canon until the actual movies confirm it

[Mandalorianknight]

19 hours ago, brickbride said:

I have to correct myself - technically two of the Thunderbolts have served in the US Military, not just one, though Bucky's service was a loooong time ago. Yeah, I can't see Yelena, Ava, Alexej, or Bucky accepting orders from War Machine just because he's a Colonel. John Walker would have once upon a time, but between his other than honourable discharge and where his loyal service has gotten him (wife left & took the kid with her, newspaper articles about his fall from grace) I don't think he now would either - if anything I could see him butting heads with Rhodey more than any other member of the team.

Another thing is that we really don't know whether War Machine is even in any reasonable shape to fight. He sustained a spinal injury in CW and while he has seemed to have healed from it, according to Secret Invasion that was all the Skrull imposter. He's briefly seen in TFATWS (or maybe that's the Skrull again, I have a hard time keeping this particular timeline straight) but in any case being able to slowly walk around doesn't mean your body's combat-ready.

Again, trying to recruit Carol would make so much sense for Falconcap for all the reasons given. Not that I'd think she'd work for him either, she's much more powerful than he is and with a much broader focus too (since she's a heroine for the entire galaxy and he's, well, a Captain America). But she might be bored enough to at least show herself cooperating with him on something.

That would be beyond stupid of Falconcap, though - first suing for the name (which takes time) and only afterwards wondering whether there's even any Avengers left to recruit. I can see him waiting to present them to the public only after he's gotten the rights to the name, but he must have at least a core team secured. Which apparently consists of himself, the new Falcon (not an Avenger), Ant-Man (barely an Avenger, and not one with a great personal rep either since he's a criminal who's been to prison), and Shang-Chi (who no-one in America would really know, but who some quick research would reveal to be the heir to the Ten Rings, i.e. the Mandarin's supposed terrorist organisation. Going by Wonder Man, where pretty much everyone who meets Trevor immediately goes 'Aren't you the Mandarin?', that's not a great rep to have either). Is Shuri on that team? That would be a smart move on Falconcap's part since she's a princess, not a criminal or mob heir, but not necessarily on her part as it might actually hurt Wakanda's international reputation.

Either way I'm not sure whether the public should be much more receptive to those Avengers than the ones with a z. It would probably be a much smarter move for both teams to set themselves up as "two teams of Avengers working together", which should be entirely feasible given Falconcap's and Bucky's friendship that TFATWS showed us at length. Another question IMO is what happens off-screen to make them so antagonistic to each other. It makes no real sense and just seems like a way to move the plot along.

Yup. Bob is the only one I could see actively accepting War Machine as a leader, but even then what's war machine even going to do? Lead him to do the dishes? Bob doesn't trust himself to go Sentry without going Void, so Rhodey would have 5 people who at best are cordially insubordinate and at worst actively rude. John and Bucky probably respect him, but that doesn't translate to agreeing to work under him. (I also feel like Ghost would 100% bring up the whole "your power is you were friends with Iron Man" thing)

This is another thing- we have not seen him in the suit since Endgame. It's entirely possible he retired. Maybe he feels he can't keep running around in an iron man suit after Tony died, maybe his remaining suit was damaged and since he's not a tech genius he can't fix it.

Does Carol even hang out on earth much? I never saw The Marvels, but in Endgame she seems to focus more on the galaxy as a whole and only comes to earth when Big Potato stuff is going on. I'm not sure Sam would even be able to reach out to her.

It would indeed be beyond stupid. It would also be profoundly in character for the mess that is Falconcap and his team's writing. To be fair to the others, though, by the time of the third movie Ant-Man is considered a legitimate and public hero, and I don't think anyone would make the Shang-Chi to Mandrain connection seeing nobody outside the magic isolated village even saw Wenwu use the rings, and Shang is using an assumed name. To the world he would just be that guy in that one video from the "do a flip" guy's youtube channel who fought a Ten Rings terrorist, assuming he hasn't been establishing himself off screen.

But you do make a good point that they don't exactly have a better lineup than the thunderbolts- even power-wise, I think the only one who'd give them much trouble is Shang-Chi, and you have the undetonated hydrogen bomb of Bob in case 3 super soldiers aren't enough to take him down. I also want to know what "went poorly", but given whatever's been going on with falconcap's writing, maybe he just told Bucky that "he's got to do better".

4 hours ago, Scarilian said:

He's unfortunately been a Skrull ever since Captain America Civil War:

  Reveal hidden contents

Ali Selim has confirmed that the dark theory that Rhodey has been a Skrull ever since Captain America: Civil War is actually true.

"Yep. He’s been a Skrull the whole time, yeah," Selim revealed, adding that the reveal has "massive implications" for the MCU. It means Rhodey has been absent for about nine years in the MCU, including for the events of Avengers: Endgame, which saw his best friend, Tony Stark (Robert Downey Jr), sacrifice himself.

So, to be clear, Rhodey doesn't know Tony's dead?

"Presumably," Selim answered. "I think it’s going to take a librarian to go through and pick apart every Rhodey moment up until Secret Invasion, but there’s a lot to be unpacked now and I think a lot of it will be unpacked in Armor Wars, which is where Don is going next."

----

Kevin Feige and the director of Secret Invasion confirmed he was meant to have been a Skrull for multiple prior appearances before Secret Invasion of which means at minimum means Infinity War & Endgame. Don Cheadle said he acted in a way to imply he was taken immediately after his fall in Civil War. As was mentioned they also specifically chose him to be wearing the hospital gown from Civil War when he is rescued.

The version of Armor Wars referred to here was going to be Rhodey processing the grief of Tony Stark's death which manifests in him protecting the legacy of Iron Man which involved Riri Williams and others who are exploiting Stark technology.

I like that by reading these you can tell the twist was absolutely not planned when they wrote infinity war and endgame. Honestly this is why Secret Invasion was never going to work in the MCU, at least at that point- you don't have enough characters to actually put meaningful skrulls on teams without killing character arcs.

Even nowadays you could get closer to it- whatever Sam's team ends up being have all been working alone for years and are mostly already guys with just suits/tech who could have become skrulls between their last project and now. Would have made a lot more sense to make Secret Invasion the first post-endgame avengers film before getting into the multiversal-scale stuff. Then there'd be a reason no one's seen Ant-Man or Shang-Chi in years- the skrulls got them after their last movies and were keeping low profiles to avoid suspicion. Falcon 2 has pretty much no one who would complain if he was a skrull. I like Ghost but having it so she got replaced by a skrull with phasing tech during/after the blip is a safe choice... and I don't believe we ever see her shame room in Thunderbolts, unlike the rest of the cast (besides Red Guardian, who's in a Rhodey spot where you'd lose some big emotional beats). Why was daredevil running around in a bright yellow suit in san francisco against everything Born Again would imply? That Matt Murdock was a skrull! 

Plus the movie budget would have allowed them to actually HAVE characters more famous than... an unsuited Rhodey and Sharon Carter... show up.

[brickbride]

21 hours ago, Scarilian said:

Unless Armor Wars happens, probably as a partially rebooted Iron Man film staring War Machine

Can't wait for that box office duel: Will a Captain America movie starring Falconcap lose more money than an Iron Man movie starring War Machine?

16 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

Does Carol even hang out on earth much? I never saw The Marvels (...)

To be fair to the others, though, by the time of the third movie Ant-Man is considered a legitimate and public hero, and I don't think anyone would make the Shang-Chi to Mandrain connection (...)

Carol moved to Earth at the end of The Marvels. She's living in her deceased friend Maria's house.

I don't know that we know about Ant-Man being all that respected. Sure he went on his book tour or whatever, but I can think of plenty of celebrities with dubious reputations that sell books, sometimes because rather than despite of it. And now that it's Avengers vs. Avengerz in the public's mind, I'd expect his background to come under scrutiny again.

As for Shang-Chi: Have you seen Wonder Man? Near the end of it Trevor takes up the mantle of the Mandarin again. I'd expect a bunch of newspaper articles about "terrorist The Mandarin, leader of the Ten Rings" being published. Meanwhile there's this Chinese guy flaunting ten magical rings that give him superpowers, whose sister currently leads the Ten Rings, while Trevor's

Spoiler

just escaped from a supermaxx prison with the help of another superpowered human.

Not a great look for Shang-Chi IMO. Most people would probably think that he and his sister work for the Mandarin. (He and Trevor also do know each other, and I wouldn't put it past Trevor to say something like "That Shang-Chi guy? Yeah, we met while his warlord father was holding me hostage" when questioned. Again, not a great look for Shang-Chi.)

 

Edited Thursday at 09:50 AM by brickbride

[brickbride]

17 hours ago, Mandalorianknight said:

But you do make a good point that they don't exactly have a better lineup than the thunderbolts- even power-wise, I think the only one who'd give them much trouble is Shang-Chi, and you have the undetonated hydrogen bomb of Bob in case 3 super soldiers aren't enough to take him down.

I do think that Sam's team has more heavy hitters who can do more damage (not counting Bob since his powers are too erratic), not to mention the flying capabilities which the Thunderbolts (save for Bob, again) lack entirely. However the Thunderbolts also have two advantages: One, they formed organically - they know why they're on this team and it's not just because they're following orders or some guy recruited them. Two, they're more self-sufficient and resilient. As the Bucky and Falconcap vs. Walker fight in TFATWS has shown, supersoldiers like Bucky and Walker are far harder to keep down than Falconcap where you can hold onto his wings in order to immobilize him, or even rip them off. And that was in a huge warehouse where he at least had room to use his wings. The new Falcon was shot down in BNW, and Ant-Man has also run into trouble when his suit glitched or he ran out of Pym Particles. Falconcap, the new Falcon, and Ant-Man are all using someone else's tech which also means they can't repair it in a pinch. Meanwhile on the Thunderbolts, only Ava relies on a protective suit and Bucky has a prosthetic arm (but he's still a superstrong dude without it). The Sentry fight showed that while none of the Thunderbolts (save Bob) are really equipped to deal with such a superpowered threat, they can regroup very quickly; Sam's team probably would have ended up with broken tech and have had to withdraw from the field altogether. In a situation where they're far from their home base - such as, say, a multiversal adventure - I'd definitely give the edge to the Thunderbolts.

I'm mainly basing this assessment on how each team would fare against a third-party threat. In a fight against each other the Thunderbolts would win hands down, because while Ant-Man and Shang-Chi could do a lot of damage, like I've said the Thunderbolts can take more damage than Sam's team of regular dudes in suits. And then Bob would go nuclear upon seeing his friend hurt.

Edited Thursday at 10:39 AM by brickbride

[kevkipo]

About the two rumoured Spiderverse sets, are the rumoured 40-60$ set and Peni / SPDR the same set? If it's 60$ then surely it wont only include Peni, Miles and Spot?
Also expecting this to be severaly out of scale.... nonetheless very happy with at least one confirmed Spiderverse set (excluding Spider-Punk figure) Lets hope for more in the summer!

Edited Thursday at 06:29 PM by kevkipo

[playgood]

Any rumors about Spidey and His Amazing friends sets for next year? With the show ending soon it might be our last chance to get some new molds like the Rhino headpiece that first showed up in the 4+ sets before being introduced in the regular system sets.

Edited Thursday at 06:35 PM by playgood

[Mandalorianknight]

22 hours ago, brickbride said:

Can't wait for that box office duel: Will a Captain America movie starring Falconcap lose more money than an Iron Man movie starring War Machine?

Carol moved to Earth at the end of The Marvels. She's living in her deceased friend Maria's house.

I don't know that we know about Ant-Man being all that respected. Sure he went on his book tour or whatever, but I can think of plenty of celebrities with dubious reputations that sell books, sometimes because rather than despite of it. And now that it's Avengers vs. Avengerz in the public's mind, I'd expect his background to come under scrutiny again.

As for Shang-Chi: Have you seen Wonder Man? Near the end of it Trevor takes up the mantle of the Mandarin again. I'd expect a bunch of newspaper articles about "terrorist The Mandarin, leader of the Ten Rings" being published. Meanwhile there's this Chinese guy flaunting ten magical rings that give him superpowers, whose sister currently leads the Ten Rings, while Trevor's

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just escaped from a supermaxx prison with the help of another superpowered human.

Not a great look for Shang-Chi IMO. Most people would probably think that he and his sister work for the Mandarin. (He and Trevor also do know each other, and I wouldn't put it past Trevor to say something like "That Shang-Chi guy? Yeah, we met while his warlord father was holding me hostage" when questioned. Again, not a great look for Shang-Chi.)

 

Presumably we need to load War Machine's movie up with Hulk villains to make it a fair matchup, though. Can't wait to see him face off against The Wreckers and Absorbing Man (who will be played by a very famous yet apathetic actor).

That's a strange choice for them to make with her not showing up in any subsequent movies- she's one of those heroes like Thor who you just kind of need to have offworld or you run into the "why doesn't a powerhouse just come in and squash this" issue. I feel like they'll throw in a line in Doomsday about her having gone back offworld (and presumably also that they haven't been able to contact the guardians).

The anecdotal evidence we have would imply he is well-regarded as an avenger. He has plenty of in-universe merch alongside the other avengers, who also wrote positive reviews of his book. He's presented as a founding avenger in the Rogers musical despite not having been active yet then. Hawkeye describes him as "the one guy everyone likes and trusts". Baskin Robbins awarded him "employee of the century", which I feel like would be an odd move for a major company if he was still considered heavily controversial. Most of these are ancillary/background material or in the opening montage of ant-man 3, but without evidence to the contrary I think it's safe to assume he is publicly well regarded as of the third ant-man movie.

I haven't seen wonder man so I'll take your word for that, but it's still operating on the assumption that Shang-Chi isn't openly operating as a hero and hasn't told the public anything about himself, such as "the whole reason I became a hero was to fight my father, who ran the ten rings. I fought him for the rings and that's why I have them". Given the only time he's seen in public combat in the MCU is fighting a ten rings terrorist, and that I doubt his sister or her running of the ten rings is public knowledge- for that matter, I don't think anyone knows that the rings are actual artifacts- especially ones that aren't rings-, I don't think anyone but conspiracy theorists would be putting that together just based on "he's the ethnicity of the region they're from and has ten bracelets". Trevor being seen as the Mandrain works in his favor to some extent- nobody in the wider world knows about Wenwu or that those bracelets are the Ten Rings the organization is named after. Organizations with spies in the underworld probably know, but if he's out there operating as a hero I doubt they do anything. There's probably a DODC file on him, or at least on the rings, but to the public he's probably just another superhero. Not a public draw to the samvengers since he's pretty unknown, but not someone who's going to hurt their rep by anything except obscurity.

21 hours ago, brickbride said:

I do think that Sam's team has more heavy hitters who can do more damage (not counting Bob since his powers are too erratic), not to mention the flying capabilities which the Thunderbolts (save for Bob, again) lack entirely. However the Thunderbolts also have two advantages: One, they formed organically - they know why they're on this team and it's not just because they're following orders or some guy recruited them. Two, they're more self-sufficient and resilient. As the Bucky and Falconcap vs. Walker fight in TFATWS has shown, supersoldiers like Bucky and Walker are far harder to keep down than Falconcap where you can hold onto his wings in order to immobilize him, or even rip them off. And that was in a huge warehouse where he at least had room to use his wings. The new Falcon was shot down in BNW, and Ant-Man has also run into trouble when his suit glitched or he ran out of Pym Particles. Falconcap, the new Falcon, and Ant-Man are all using someone else's tech which also means they can't repair it in a pinch. Meanwhile on the Thunderbolts, only Ava relies on a protective suit and Bucky has a prosthetic arm (but he's still a superstrong dude without it). The Sentry fight showed that while none of the Thunderbolts (save Bob) are really equipped to deal with such a superpowered threat, they can regroup very quickly; Sam's team probably would have ended up with broken tech and have had to withdraw from the field altogether. In a situation where they're far from their home base - such as, say, a multiversal adventure - I'd definitely give the edge to the Thunderbolts.

I'm mainly basing this assessment on how each team would fare against a third-party threat. In a fight against each other the Thunderbolts would win hands down, because while Ant-Man and Shang-Chi could do a lot of damage, like I've said the Thunderbolts can take more damage than Sam's team of regular dudes in suits. And then Bob would go nuclear upon seeing his friend hurt.

I'm actually not so sure that they even have more heavy hitters. Shang-Chi probably is, but I don't think Ant-Man necessarily hits all that much harder than the stronger members of the thunderbolts. Bucky deflected a van flying towards him (with his robot arm, but still) like it was nothing. In full Giant-Man mode he probably exceeds that- stuff like the leviathan punching is pretty heavy- but he also moves so slowly that against the average super-soldier I'd give the edge to the super soldier. He's got a lot of utility but I don't think he can be your team's heavy hitter in the way a Hulk or Thor can.

You make some good points about the wings- in the comics they were also the attack method and fired projectiles, but in the MCU they are pretty much just a liability compared to your average jet pack or rocket boots, especially for falcon 2 who's wings aren't made of magic metal. A regular guy probably stands a good chance against him.

Totally agreed. Unless the Samvengers have Carol, it's an easy win for the bolts as you say. Torres gets hit with a shield or just gets his wings shot and is immediately out of the fight. Samcap likely loses to John or Bucky. Ant-Man needed help to take out Ghost last time, when she was days from death and extremely unstable. Shang-Chi is an issue, but I think one of the super-soldiers could stall him long enough for the other bolts to win their fights and come help. The only way the Samvengers have a chance is with Carol, and even then if we're giving the samvengers Carol we might as well let the bolts use sentry and the two essentially neutralize eachother.

In the fight scene I wrote between them (in the whole show treatment I wrote that is very nerdy, I know), I put She-Hulk on the samvengers (I figure sam's filing a lawsuit and trying to assemble a team- why not give him someone who could help with both... and like the majority of the samvengers is a character I do not care for at this point in the MCU timeline, so she fits there too), and I still felt like it was still pretty evenly matched (again with Carol vs Sentry).

9 hours ago, kevkipo said:

About the two rumoured Spiderverse sets, are the rumoured 40-60$ set and Peni / SPDR the same set? If it's 60$ then surely it wont only include Peni, Miles and Spot?
Also expecting this to be severaly out of scale.... nonetheless very happy with at least one confirmed Spiderverse set (excluding Spider-Punk figure) Lets hope for more in the summer!

I believe so. If it's $60 we might get a fourth fig, but I wouldn't guarantee it. The ITSV set was $50 and did have a fourth fig but also some re-used prints- if we assume this is Dark Spot and a new Miles, I think 3 figs isn't altogether impossible.

If it's her mech from the end of ATSV it'll be oversized for sure. But it could be that in BTSV they're giving Peni a larger mech (they do tend to alternate between "size of a large human" and "Pacific Rim", so if the mech changes again there's no telling what it is- it could be undersized in the set for all we know).

Edited Friday at 04:10 AM by Mandalorianknight

[brickbride]

@MandalorianknightHi there again! ;-)

Ant-Man: You make some good points, but how many of these people and organsiations know about his background? I just think that if it's Avengers vs. Avengerz in the public's mind, someone on some forum will go "You know your Avengerz are all criminals, right?" and then someone will retort "But Ant-Man's a criminal, too, here's proof!" Hence why I wrote that his background might come under scrutiny again.

Shang-Chi: Presumably someone will, at some point, ask about his combat jewellery and he'l refer to it by its name as the "ten rings", not "ten friendship bracelets" or whatever. Also I don't think he'd tell the public about himself. He seems like a private guy, plus he can't really admit to his warlord father without ratting out his warlord sister, plus claiming he fought his father for the rings would be lying since Wenwu willed them to him with his last breath. I just think he'd keep quiet and hope none of this ever comes up, which might backfire.

If you haven't seen Wonder Man I might suggest you watch it just for Ben Kingsley's Trevor, he's really excellent and a lot of fun! Other than that, though, I can't recommend it. The plot seems very contrived. It's also quite apparent that the writers look down on people who work outside the entertainment industry, which I found off-putting. And the hero's an unlikeable load who "deserves" to have things handed to him because the plot says so, and never really takes responsibility for his actions (including at the end where he basically ruins some poor security guard's life in order to, again, get what he wants.)

Carol: She'd absolutely not work for Falconcap. They're both Captains but she has seniority. ;-) One a more serious note, he's just some guy with a jetpack and she's a supernova. He's just the latest Captain America, a nationalist icon for one faction of one planet, while she's - among other things - both the entire Kree race's boogeyman and saviour (as per The Marvels, don't ask) and the Queen of at least one planet (again as per The Marvels, really don't ask). At best she could be talked into endorsing him, especially since she must be bored out of her mind by now. (I agree that having her move to Earth was a strange choice, I can only assume it's to set up something. Not being able to contact the Guardians in Doomsday would also be ridiculous since Star-Lord's living on Earth and surely would not have cut himself off from all his friends.)

Sam's team vs. Thunderbolts: I said the former had more heavy hitters since Yelena's and Ava's value mainly lies in stealth and infiltration (Black Widow was always a lightweight among the Avengers and Ava's powers are easy to deal with once you know she's coming); this leaves the three supersoldiers as heavy hitters, not counting Bob. But yeah, I'd expect a fight to go roughly like that:

- Bucky with rocket launcher vs new Falcon: One down, three to go.

- Walker vs. Falconcap, the rematch: Walker would win - he'd have won the first time around if not for Bucky's interference and he'd been a supersoldier then for roughly half an hour.

- Ant-Man's harder to predict. If he goes small he could be an interesting challenge for Yelena and Ava. If he goes big, I agree that containing him would involver supersoldiers. Either way the Thunderbolts should probably manage. And that leaves Shang-Chi vs three supersoldiers (at least some of them should be injured by now but again, they can take damage. More so than Shang-Chi who despite the rings and martial arts is a regular dude.)

Of course in a movie it would go differently. We've had numerous instances of people's powers fluctuating depending on the plot: Yelena holding her own against Walker because she's the protagonist of Thunderbolts; Hawkeye outcrawling Thanos' forces in Endgame, and Carol suddenly needing help just so Marvel could cram their ridiculous "girl power" line-up down our throats. The Marvels also has very bad in-story continuity regarding how fast Carol can fly just so that Monica can end up where the plot needs her to. And Falconcap in particular has very strong plot armor. During BNW I kept wondering how this regular dude, wearing and carrying equipment that must weigh a ton, could keep slinging around the shield in an effortless way that would make supersoldier Steve jealous. But Marvel have decided he's the new and improved Cap and therefore can do everything Steve could plus some. So they might well have him and Torres curb-stomping the Thunderbolts no matter how improbable that would be, just so that hopefully someone would start taking his team seriously.

Finally, now I really want to read your treatment! Can it be found anywhere on the 'net?

---

In order to bring the discussion back to LEGO sets: Do we think the Doomsday sets depict actual film scenes? I.e.

- will there be a scene where Doom shows up at the Watchtower and Bob fights him as Sentry?

- Or is the set a mash-up of different scenes (the Sentry scene from Thunderbolts and maybe a later Doom visit to the tower)?

- Or is it just marketing decisions ("We're due a new tower, peoole want Thunderbolt figs, and we need to cram Doom into every set") with no real relationship to the plot?

The way they've split up the F4 over different sets/locations makes me think the latter.

Edited Friday at 02:25 PM by brickbride

[Mandalorianknight]

14 hours ago, brickbride said:

@MandalorianknightHi there again! ;-)

Ant-Man: You make some good points, but how many of these people and organsiations know about his background? I just think that if it's Avengers vs. Avengerz in the public's mind, someone on some forum will go "You know your Avengerz are all criminals, right?" and then someone will retort "But Ant-Man's a criminal, too, here's proof!" Hence why I wrote that his background might come under scrutiny again.

Shang-Chi: Presumably someone will, at some point, ask about his combat jewellery and he'l refer to it by its name as the "ten rings", not "ten friendship bracelets" or whatever. Also I don't think he'd tell the public about himself. He seems like a private guy, plus he can't really admit to his warlord father without ratting out his warlord sister, plus claiming he fought his father for the rings would be lying since Wenwu willed them to him with his last breath. I just think he'd keep quiet and hope none of this ever comes up, which might backfire.

If you haven't seen Wonder Man I might suggest you watch it just for Ben Kingsley's Trevor, he's really excellent and a lot of fun! Other than that, though, I can't recommend it. The plot seems very contrived. It's also quite apparent that the writers look down on people who work outside the entertainment industry, which I found off-putting. And the hero's an unlikeable load who "deserves" to have things handed to him because the plot says so, and never really takes responsibility for his actions (including at the end where he basically ruins some poor security guard's life in order to, again, get what he wants.)

It's possible it comes under scrutiny, but at this point I don't think it would matter. Not that theft isn't wrong, but when his crimes didn't even involve physical violence and on the other hand he's publicly saved the world, I don't think the general public would really care.

It's been awhile since I've seen the movie but my understanding was that while Wenwu did end up giving him the rest of the rings, he did fight Wenwu and had gotten control of about half of them during the fight before Wenwu gave up. He's definitely in a sketchier situation than Ant-Man but I think he'd also be OK since he's innocent of any actual wrongdoing and the public hasn't seen anything to the contrary.

My brother saw it and that's about what he said. Trevor is funny (which I know from Shang-Chi) but it comes off as something entertainment industry writers wrote to hype themselves up and with an attitude of being better/more enlightened than people in other industries. Maybe I'll just search up a collection of Trevor's best scenes.

14 hours ago, brickbride said:

Carol: She'd absolutely not work for Falconcap. They're both Captains but she has seniority. ;-) One a more serious note, he's just some guy with a jetpack and she's a supernova. He's just the latest Captain America, a nationalist icon for one faction of one planet, while she's - among other things - both the entire Kree race's boogeyman and saviour (as per The Marvels, don't ask) and the Queen of at least one planet (again as per The Marvels, really don't ask). At best she could be talked into endorsing him, especially since she must be bored out of her mind by now. (I agree that having her move to Earth was a strange choice, I can only assume it's to set up something. Not being able to contact the Guardians in Doomsday would also be ridiculous since Star-Lord's living on Earth and surely would not have cut himself off from all his friends.)

While falconcap "represents a lot of things and america isn't necessarily one of them" or whatever nonsense he said in that interview, I agree that she's not really likely to work under Cap. Not because he's less powerful or that he's captain america- after all, Steve has led actual gods into battle- but simply because I doubt she'd see much value in joining his team.

I think it's moreso that the avengers might not know star-lord's on earth. He seems to be living a normal civilian life and I don't think we've seen him interact with any of the avengers outside attending Tony's funeral, so I imagine he just quietly came down to earth to live as a guy without telling the avengers, especially since I'm not even sure there was an active team at the time of his arrival. And if even the Thunderbolts- who presumably have more resources availible than any other hero faction currently operating- are only vaguely aware of there being some sort of space crisis until the F4's ship arrives, I doubt Peter finds out that this is an endgame level situation or something he needs to call the guardians about until it's too late.

14 hours ago, brickbride said:

Sam's team vs. Thunderbolts: I said the former had more heavy hitters since Yelena's and Ava's value mainly lies in stealth and infiltration (Black Widow was always a lightweight among the Avengers and Ava's powers are easy to deal with once you know she's coming); this leaves the three supersoldiers as heavy hitters, not counting Bob. But yeah, I'd expect a fight to go roughly like that:

- Bucky with rocket launcher vs new Falcon: One down, three to go.

- Walker vs. Falconcap, the rematch: Walker would win - he'd have won the first time around if not for Bucky's interference and he'd been a supersoldier then for roughly half an hour.

- Ant-Man's harder to predict. If he goes small he could be an interesting challenge for Yelena and Ava. If he goes big, I agree that containing him would involver supersoldiers. Either way the Thunderbolts should probably manage. And that leaves Shang-Chi vs three supersoldiers (at least some of them should be injured by now but again, they can take damage. More so than Shang-Chi who despite the rings and martial arts is a regular dude.)

Of course in a movie it would go differently. We've had numerous instances of people's powers fluctuating depending on the plot: Yelena holding her own against Walker because she's the protagonist of Thunderbolts; Hawkeye outcrawling Thanos' forces in Endgame, and Carol suddenly needing help just so Marvel could cram their ridiculous "girl power" line-up down our throats. The Marvels also has very bad in-story continuity regarding how fast Carol can fly just so that Monica can end up where the plot needs her to. And Falconcap in particular has very strong plot armor. During BNW I kept wondering how this regular dude, wearing and carrying equipment that must weigh a ton, could keep slinging around the shield in an effortless way that would make supersoldier Steve jealous. But Marvel have decided he's the new and improved Cap and therefore can do everything Steve could plus some. So they might well have him and Torres curb-stomping the Thunderbolts no matter how improbable that would be, just so that hopefully someone would start taking his team seriously.

Yup. Torres is if anything just a liability to Sam. Falcon had utility in The Winter Soldier given the situation they were in, and flight makes him helpful in large battles like the avengers films, but he's not too helpful in this situation. And Sam Wilson is very skilled at using the wingpack, being a surviving veteran of the initial program- Torres has managed to get himself severely injured in the only two projects he's been in. I honestly think Yelena could take him down without too much difficulty.

Walker, at least in the comics, is canonically even stronger than steve, and like you say we've got evidence in-universe that even a mid-panic attack, just-ensupered walker would have defeated Falconcap. A more experienced and stable one would defeat him no question.

Ant man definitely depends on how he decides to attack, but Ava's fought him before so I doubt it's too much of an issue- worst case scenario you have to pull bucky to contain, but since torres is essentially not a threat to the super soldiers I don't think it'd be an issue, and then as you say suddenly Shang-Chi's gone from beating on a still-standing Red Guardian to dealing with a 1v5. And that's all without Bob.

As Stan Lee says, the writer wins all fights. If the current MCU actually had them fight I think Sam would conveniently have super soldier strength/durability and the actual super-soldiers would be nerfed, because otherwise it'd basically just be an advertisement that Shang-Chi is like 75% of their strength.

14 hours ago, brickbride said:

Finally, now I really want to read your treatment! Can it be found anywhere on the 'net?

Thank you! I haven't posted it anywhere just because this is pretty much the extent of my social media, and since it's currently around 40 pages it's a bit too big even to drop in a spoiler for space, but I'll give a bit of an overview:

Spoiler

(This is all meant to happen before doomsday)

It starts off with Sam and his lawyer Jennifer Walters successfully getting a TRO so the Thunderbolts can't use the New Avengers name and have to officially use Thunderbolts in branding. For most of the first season, I have it dealing with both determining who the avengers are and some loose ends in the MCU that connect to the thunderbolts.

Since the thunderbolts escaping the vault kind of botched the destruction, some vials of prototype sentry serum that were in a lockbox survived and were stolen by a former widow who the bolts will end up calling Blood Widow. Her overall goal is allegedly to work her sisters into positions of power and status, as she resents how they were used as assassins and then expected to go live normal lives like nothing happened. However she also hates Yelana for having a loving family and having Natasha, and her plan is less "get my sisters comfortable lives where they can use their skills" and more "create a shadow government and also murder Yelena and all her friends". Some of the seemingly episode threats the thunderbolts face were injected with prototype sentry serum as part of Blood Widow trying to distract them. We see that unlike super-soldier serum, sentry serum very much amplifies and gives powers to people according to their personality- nobody ends up as strong as bob or with his powers, and nobody gets their own Void.

One of the first groups Blood Widow picks up to help with her plan is the remaining flag-smashers, who have super-soldiers. Killing the leader of a terrorist group typically doesn't neutralize that group but instead further radicalizes them, so it always felt weird that we just never saw them again given they do have super soldiers. Blood Widow frees them from prison, including their new leader Cain, who upon taking serum gets pyrokinetic abilities. He has a specific grudge against John for being the only person they're aware of who's ever killed a Flag-Smasher.

As part of the "thunderbolts team is just super soldiers and a widow" thing, Blood Widow's strike team lightning is made up of flag-smasher super soldiers and black widows and serves as somewhat of a foil to the bolts.

The general plotline goes like this- I do have specific episode descriptions and in some cases scripts, but again, space reasons:

The first six episodes, "Avengers no more" through "Kinzoku Shi", are setting up a lot of what I just mentioned and the thunderbolts' first few encounters with these enemies. It ends with a mission against the Yakuza that shows why Bucky kept the winter soldier name- the fear it inspires in the global underworld- and is one of the first major, public victories for the thunderbolts and gets them some positive press.

Episodes 7-10, "Ghost in the Void" through "Stars" focus on both Bob's mental state- including him slipping into a Void, though this time one he manages to contain within the tower- and the flag-smashers getting impatient. They attack the tower and during the fight, their leader calls out the names of John's parents- and while John races to get to their home, they've already been killed. (This is an event from the comics that somewhat parallels how TFATWS killed Battlestar). John starts to backslide but Ava helps him, and the two of them defeat the pyrokinetic leader of the flag-smashers. The rest of the team is losing against their super-soldiers when bob manages to, for the first time, successfully go Sentry without going Void. It's not something they're comfortable using in most situations but something they now have in their pocket if they need it. This is also where talks between bucky and sam sour- Sam's always had a softer hand with the flag smashers so their public reemergance and attacks only to be beaten by the thunderbolts is a bad look for his team (we generally hear bits of whatever his team's up to and get the sense they're off on their own adventures).

Episodes 11-16, "Time to put on a show" through "Ghost of the past" are about both bringing other enhanced into contact with the thunderbolts and powering up the actual roster. This arc is more episodic but includes one where the thunderbolts' lawyer for the avengers case- Matt Murdock- is kidnapped, one where Valentina gets them a publicity job bodyguarding Enhanced pop star Luna Snow, etc. At one point, Bob intentionally causes a controlled Void within a room to keep a critically injured bolt from dying until the necessary medical equipment and staff can get there. It ends with Ava going rogue to find and kill the ex-shield program director who was behind making her child self into an assassin, and John goes with her since she'd helped him in his lowest moments in the flag-smashers episodes. She ends up finding out that the ex-shield operative hates himself for what he did and spares him- and he also reveals something they kept from even Bill Foster- that the treatments she got only seem like they're keeping her alive, but are actually what keep her needing the suit- and therefore relying on shield (or now, Valentina). If she stops taking them, after a short period of withdrawal symptoms, she won't need the suit anymore. (Though she'll still typically wear at least a facsimile of it as her uniform.) This will be used later to power her up and eventually give her some energy projection abilities as she gets more control over her power.

Episodes 17-22, "Master of Puppets" through "Not Heroes", star with an episode where a new, comic-accurate Taskmaster hired by Blood Widow shows up to steal documents from the tower and torment Yelena. As it turns out, the documents Taskmaster stole are proof of all Valentina's crimes, as well as information proving most of the bolts used to work for her. With concrete evidence of both those, Blood Widow orchestrates it to be revealed as if Valentina is still using the thunderbolts as her personal kill team. Which while false, is optically really bad and hard to disprove. This causes them to not only lose the court case against Sam but be branded criminals and have the tower raided by the DODC. They're forced to scatter- Yelena going to watch over a regressing Bob, John and Ava hiding out in the ex-shield director's safehouse, Alexi off on his own, and Bucky now trying to both keep on the run and train Mel. (I forgot to mention this but Mel has stuck around as Valentina's liason to the thunderbolts- Bob tends to stay behind on missions so they have kind of a fun dynamic as the bolts' "guy in a chair"s. In the comics she's Songbird, so when the tower is raided and she is trying to get rid of evidence for Valentina, Mel, who idolizes the bolts, takes the serum herself.)

They eventually regroup after a tip from Valentina, who's gone through some development of her own over the season and finally puts herself at risk to save something other than herself, having found Blood Widow's location. Blood widow has managed to reverse-engineer the prototype sentry serum, and in an underground facility in Russia plans to essentially create a secret metahuman factory- one in which everyone she grants powers is injected with a device alongside the serum that will kill them if they disobey her, essentially making her the most powerful person in the world. The bolts are drawn into an airport battle intentionally reminiscent of civil war as they try to get to the plane Val has set up for them, only to find Sam's Avengers team waiting. During the fight, Bucky points out the parallel to Sam and manages to convince him to let them see this through- though Sam's Avengers don't go with them. 

When they get to russia, Bob seemingly stays behind on the plane, since he's regressed in his control of his abilities since the bolts went on the run and is worried he'll end up going void. As the bolts fight through the underground facility, they're waylaid or picked off one by one. Bucky stays behind to take on the entirety of Blood Widow's lightning team himself (he barely wins, though he's in critical condition). Blood Widow shoots Mel, and Red Guardian backs out of the confrontation to try and get her to a hospital. When she's finally cornered in the serum lab, it's just Yelena, John, and Ghost- the original Thunderbolts-against blood widow, who in desperation takes the final vial of original prototype, giving herself powers (blood manipulation). Blood Widow is defeated, but points out that this doesn't help the thunderbolts much- they saved the world, but she's not going to admit to faking the documents claiming Val was still using them as a kill team. They'll still be fugitives- and that's when Sentry crashes in from above. He claims if Blood Widow doesn't admit to what she's done, he will kill every one of the widows working for her, every one of her "sisters". It's dark, but an obvious bluff- Bob would never do that. But Blood Widow's never been able to figure out Bob, and as he now has enough control of his powers to make himself appear as if he's going Void, she relents, her love for her sisters being stronger than her hatred for Yelena. 

With the bolts' name restored, they're given the tower back. Pepper Potts makes a cameo to show the court that Stark Industries owns the Avengers label, and she won't give it to either team, preferring to hold onto it until she thinks it'll be needed. The Thunderbolts are still the Thunderbolts, but have now cemented themselves as earth's mightiest heroes.

I've left a lot out here, such as Zemo's role, most of Alexi's plotline, and character dynamics, but it's the basic premise. The Samvengers roster is Sam, Torres, Ant-Man, Shang-Chi, and She-Hulk. Fearing Sentry, Sam does manage to get Captain Marvel to join them to ambush the thunderbolts at the airport when it seems like they're criminals, and she shows up in the last episode to talk to bob about how being on the level of her or Thor isn't an easy burden to bear, but she's not really a Samvenger. Sam's team takes the name Safeguard at the end of the season.

My outlines for second and third seasons are much rougher and as I try to use them to set up a doomsday-like scenario they will inevitably end up strongly diverging from whatever actually happens. To give very rough outlines:

Season 2 (22 episodes, "Strike Twice" through "Dark Avengers") deals with the coming multiversal crisis causing metahumans from another earth (let's say 626) to appear on 616. This gets us a more classic comics lineup of villanous thunderbolts being led by 626 Zemo, with the twist being this Zemo- who outwardly appears to be just trying to take over like his comic counterpart- is actually more ideologically similar to 616's zemo and his master plan would wipe out all metahumans on whichever earth survives the coming incursion. The final arc takes place during an incursion- other heroes and teams are off dealing with the incursion itself as the thunderbolts fight 626 Zemo's team, stopping his plan but getting scatted across the multiverse as a result. There's a minor arc in the first half about the Scourge of the Underworld, who's revealed to be John's brother, thought KIA. 626 Zemo's team takes influence from the Dark Avengers and is himself (as Citizen V), a comic-accurate Ghost, evil captain marvel Moonstone (Karla Sofen), symbiote wearing Spider-Man (Mac Gargan), classic villain variant of Songbird/Mel Gold, classic thunderbolts Atlas, Jolt, and Beetle, and a Natasha Romanoff variant of Blood Widow. The Scourge arc involves episode appearances of minor/comical villains- Ice Princess, Death Adder, Armless Tiger-Man, Loxias Crown, Harvester, Unus, and Rive.

Season 3 starts with character-focus episodes (5 episodes- "Chain Lightning" through "No Man Left Behind") on the universes the different thunderbolts were scattered into as they gradually find their way to eachother and back to 616. Upon returning, Bucky is informed by 616's Illuminati (Strange, Sam, Carol, Bucky himself, and Bruce- the Shang-Chi post credits then retroactively becomes an early meeting of this group) that another incursion is coming and to prepare his team. The middle of the season focuses both first what threats have been undealt with in the bolts' absence and the vigilantes who tried to deal with them ("Don't Normalize the Abnormal" through "Daybreak"), and preparing for what they're told has a good chance at being a suicide mission (5 episodes, "Illumination" through "Peace"). While Strange, Sam's team, and other heroes are dealing with the Kang of the universe that's causing an incursion, the thunderbolts venture into the Nexus of All Realities and fight the Black Priests (9 episodes, "Our Worlds at War" through "Thunderbolts")- led by an evil strange who is trying to control which universes live and die and a fallen Yelana who was powerless to save her world and learned dark magic to never be powerless again-  to keep their earth alive. It ends with the F4 ship showing up and the thunderbolts splitting up for doomsday: Bob, Yelena, and Bucky going on the doomsday mission and John and Ava leading the New Thunderbolts (I killed Alexi off towards the end- also Valentina). New Thunderbolts include Taskmaster, Mel, and 616's Zemo- obviously a lot of character development has been skimmed over in the summary.

 

14 hours ago, brickbride said:

In order to bring the discussion back to LEGO sets: Do we think the Doomsday sets depict actual film scenes? I.e.

The Sentinel battle 100% depicts a scene from the film, but I don't think the other two are even close:

-Doom just seems to be there so every set has a minifig antagonist because lego wasn't given art of the witches or "boris" when developing the sets. (Not that I think we'll see any of them attack the quinjet or tower either)

-I refuse to believe there is a scene in which Cyclops pilots the quinjet. It seems like Thing stays on 616 so I doubt cyclops and thing are ever onscreen together.

-The tower is close- it seems like Johnny and Alexi stay behind on 616 and I don't think we've officially seen where bucky ends up- but we know Yelena goes to the X-men verse and presumably Bob does too.

Edited Friday at 08:45 PM by Mandalorianknight

[JeanGreyForever]

The fact that we're getting Doom in every set but not getting Doom in his 

Spoiler

hero outfit

astounds me. Not that it's a great look but it would have been nice to get some variety.

[CloneCommando99]

Nooooooooooo!!! My Jessica Cruz fancast!!!

 

In all seriousness it looks like a pretty stacked X-Men line-up. And I’m sure Beast, Iceman and Gambit are still being cast.

I imagine Marvel will use black and yellow suits to distinguish themselves from the Doomsday X-Men. I also imagine that we’ll get 2-3 sets for the film in 2028.

[calebcold3]

The MCU X-Men Cast is legit.. wow

We Got:

• Sadie Sink as Jean Grey
• Samara Weaving as Emma Frost
• Kit Connor as Cyclops
• Inde Navarette as Rogue
• Maya Boyd as Storm
• Christopher Abbott as Professor X
• Adam Driver as Mister Sinister

Here's hoping that we get Mister Sinister and Emma Frost Minifigures in 2028

[JeanGreyForever]

25 minutes ago, CloneCommando99 said:

Nooooooooooo!!! My Jessica Cruz fancast!!!

 

In all seriousness it looks like a pretty stacked X-Men line-up. And I’m sure Beast, Iceman and Gambit are still being cast.

The O5 are all in it so expect to see Iceman, Beast, and Angel eventually. Gambit is still unknown. There's been rumors about him and Nightcrawler, particularly Nightcrawler who may debut in Ghost Rider. 

Meanwhile Hugh Jackman teasing an appearance in Doomsday. Wonder if we can expect a second wave of Doomsday sets to feature Wolverine.

34 minutes ago, CloneCommando99 said:

I imagine Marvel will use black and yellow suits to distinguish themselves from the Doomsday X-Men. I also imagine that we’ll get 2-3 sets for the film in 2028.

I don't think they're going to repeat the black leather looks again. The color scheme 

Spoiler

Jean

has in BND is also an indication they're going with classic comic colors.