Marvel Superheroes 2026 - Rumors & Discussion

[JeanGreyForever]

1 hour ago, brickbride said:

To be fair MCU Clint as Ronin was a vigilante who only went after criminals (and not petty criminals either but organised crime). That's not much different from, say, Batman. And very different from Wanda who does not care about justice or public safety in the slightest, only about herself, and whose murder and mind-control sprees were directed towards innocent civilians.

Let's also not forget that MCU Clint was a SHIELD assassin to begin with, so he basically did what he'd been trained to do just without orders (but still picking the targets SHIELD likely would have picked, and did SHIELD even exist during the Blip?). It's not a double standard IMO.

I did not know that about Jeremy Renner. Is this the reason why Hawkeye season 2 was cancelled? I'd have expected a second season to focus on Kate as opposed to Clint anyway.

The thing is the Avengers have always had a very clean public image, like the Fantastic Four, especially as a government-sponsored team. They weren't a vigilante team of superheroes like the X-Men or even the Thunderbolts. You compared Ronin to Batman but Batman has a strict no killing policy (in most adaptations anyway). Even as a vigilante, he doesn't go around killing criminals like the Joker, who one could argue deserves to be put down for the greater good. Ronin was treated more like Punisher and we've seen that Punisher isn't even considered family friendly enough for Lego to adapt. For years, people have thought it was weird that we never got a Ronin minifigure in any Endgame set and it wouldn't surprise me if the reason Lego has stayed away from Clint's Ronin persona is entirely because of his hit count and Punisher comparisons. And tbh, I don't think Clint's motivations as Ronin were that focused on public safety or protection. It seemed like he had a lot of rage that he needed to vent out and targeting dangerous criminals that he deemed a threat was the most acceptable way of doing it, but who appointed him as judge, jury and executioner? 

And you bring up that he was an assassin before joining SHIELD and the Avengers, so that goes back to how he has red in his ledger, the way Black Widow did. So we know he's killed before and even relapsed and killed again after being an Avenger. The double standard is how female characters like Wanda or even Natasha (who I've noticed gets more flack about her criminal past than Clint) are vilified and treated as irredeemable, whereas Clint gets his happy ending and family back. In contrast, Natasha considers herself a monster (we never see Clint grapple with the blood on his hands from his past or during Endgame), and she's made to die. The narrative tells us that the female character has to pay for her sins through death, while the male character with the similar past does not. His life continues on with no consequences. And while Endgame told us that Natasha made the sacrifice because she was alone and Clint had a family, now we know that Natasha also had a family who suffered without her.

The lack of a season 2 might have been a combo of things: Jeremy's injuries, various allegations from multiple women, and the fact that S1 was basically created to launch Kate Bishop for an eventual Young Avengers spinoff that doesn't seem like it's going to happen now. But a major factor I heard was payment. Jeremy wanted more money and due to high production costs and possibly soft viewership for S1, Disney didn't want to pay him what he wanted so the project was cancelled. As we saw with Wonder Man's cancellation, which was actually confirmed to get a S2, Disney is really lowering their Disney+ output since they realized how much all these shows are devaluing the brand.

51 minutes ago, BrickBob Studpants said:

Also, Clint‘s rampage as Ronin isn‘t really portrayed as a good thing either. It‘s more sad than anything

I also wasn‘t aware of the allegations against Renner. Combined with his accident, it makes sense he‘s been put on the backburner.

And whoops, I knew I forgot someone important, namely America Chavez! She kinda sorta has to be there since MoM clearly established that she‘s needed to hop between universes. Well, either her or the TVA, and we know Loki‘s in this. Still feels like a bit of a cop-out. Now that I think about it, the plot of MoM would fall apart if Wanda was aware of the TVA. Or Infinity War for that matter, if Thanos could access their HQ  How will Doom get access to the TVA, if none of the other super-powerful characters could, if that‘s the route they‘re taking? Kang made sense, but Doom?

…now I wish they established clear rules and boundaries for the multiverse stuff since none of it really fits together anymore

I agree, the movie doesn't paint him in a positive light for what he's doing. It's supposed to be a fall from grace, but it's notable that female characters like Natasha and Wanda have to be killed off for their respective redemptions unlike Clint who gets to have his family back. 

His ex-wife accused him of abuse some years back. I think his reputation wasn't too badly affected by that, at least in terms of his Hollywood career, but just recently his last ex-girlfriend, a Chinese filmmaker, also accused him of abuse and claimed he threatened to get ICE to deport her. So it seems to be a pattern with him. 

With the multiverse movies, you can tell they make the rules up as they go from movie to movie. And they really started that with Endgame, when they established that if you change the past, it doesn't affect the present/future and all you do is create a new branched timeline. Now that we have other universes, like the Foxverse and Raimiverse, it's even more confusing because the time travel rules in X-Men: DOFP are very different from that in Endgame. In DOFP, they specifically do go back in time and change the past to change the future. As for Wanda not knowing about the TVA, the MoM makers revealed that the movie was in production around the same time as WandaVision so they had no idea what was being done with her character there as they never saw it. Since Loki came out after WandaVision and would have been in production around the same time as MoM, it's safe to say they had no idea what Marvel was doing with the TVA in Loki. Hence why it doesn't impact MoM at all.

[brickbride]

@JeanGreyForever

I disagree about the MCU Avengers having a clean public image. The six core members contain a weapons manufacturer, a pretty much uncontrollable (at that point in time) rage monster, and two SHIELD assassins.

Personally I'm no fan of the Ronin storyline because it just doesn't seem to mesh with the character; there's no in-story reason given whatsoever why this Midwestern, All-American guy would speak fluent Japanese, know how to wield a katana, or identify with Japanese culture all of a sudden. I also agree with you that Clint's motivations weren't noble, but it still shows something about his character: Clint went off the rails in a vigilante way whereas Wanda went off the rails in a way that benefitted only her and hurt everyone else.

I'd say if there's a double standard here it's more about how Clint (and Nat) being assassins under orders from SHIELD is acceptable whereas Clint being one on his own time is not. Especially given that SHIELD at the time consisted mostly of Hydra higher-ups so Clint picking the targets instead of them might have been preferrable!

Also Natasha considers herself a monster a) because she can't have children (a very stupid plotline but Canon accoring to AoU) and b) she has "red in her ledger" due to her kills as a Widow, which presumably were innocent victims as opposed to the kind SHIELD (and Ronin) would have gone after. And while she also has a family, Clint has kids, which makes a difference (Nat's family are all adults who can function without her, even if they'd rather not). Besides Nat having a family of any kind clearly wasn't planned in Endgame; she was completely baffled when the Red Skull gave her father's name (and it was not Alexej either!).

I wholly agree with you that the MCU writers have weird double standards about women (especially regarding motherhood/motherly feelings), and that they're too quick to kill off females over males (Gamora's another example). I just don't think the Ronin arc is a great example.

I didn't know about Wonder Man's cancellation but good riddance. Like I've said, Ben Kingsley was excellent as Trevor, but the hero was so self-centered and unlikeable and focused on what he "deserved" at the expense of everyone else that we don't need to see more of him IMO.

Edited Monday at 10:18 AM by brickbride

[JeanGreyForever]

59 minutes ago, Renny The Spaceman said:

Disney did just get him to record stuff with the other actors for a Disneyland ride though. I think they don't care because Renner's string of abuse hasn't been nearly as publicly focused on. He's been doing stuff like this for years too. Despite being no-one's favourite actor he's somehow wound up bulletproof to contraversy. 

I doubt it, he pulled a gun on his wife in 2019 and still got a show. I think Hawkeye just underperformed. 

It’s really funny in a film that's just sold on hype moments and aura to have it's villain sounding to stupid to have hype momes and aura. 

He's been lucky that despite being in high-profile projects, like the MCU, he's never been that popular a name to get enough media attention for his various scandals. He must be quite protected in Hollywood considering how long he's lasted, whereas Jonathan Majors, who was Hollywood's golden boy for a very brief period, had just one high-profile allegation and his entire career ended over that. But I remember reading that a lot of people who knew Jonathan Majors as he was starting out said he had a history of abuse and arrogance and how, if he had been vetted earlier, he would never have gotten a chance in Hollywood.

I'm seeing online theories now that RDJ isn't the real Doom and there's another actor who will be the real Doom as part of the twist and he'll actually be European or at least capable of giving a European-sounding accent. So I think people are already trying to cope through these theories lol.

[Scarilian]

In regards to Hawkeye figure potential, we got the CMF figure in 2023, so the lack of Ronin after the appearance in 2019's Avengers: Endgame is a strange one. Especially so because the Ronin outfit appeared again in the Hawkeye series in 2021. You could easily had the Ronin outfit without the likeness of the actor, you even have it worn by someone else you could say it is adapting, yet here we are 7 years later and we don't have it despite fan demand.

I was unaware of the situation regarding the actor but admittedly at this point I don't desire another Hawkeye figure, sure we have a few suit variations it'd be neat to get, but most I just want to get the Ronin suit as it looked cool and could work as a detailed non-MCU version.

2 hours ago, JeanGreyForever said:

There's a double standard with MCU Clint that's present as well, the way Wanda gets lambasted for lashing out and terrorizing people after losing her family. Yet, I've never heard Clint be held accountable by fans for actually going around and murdering people as Ronin in Endgame, because of his fury over losing his family. Funny how that seems to be a pattern. 

No double standard on display, one is impacting innocents the other is impacting violent criminals.

• Wanda as Wanda, in WandaVision tortured an entire town of innocent civilians mentally, physically and emotionally to live out her warped childhood TV shows, to the point of it causing so much pain for them constantly that people were begging for her to kill them, including trapping children and babies in their rooms and not allowing family members to see them at all. When confronted by someone she loves with her actions she refuses to stop.
• Clint as Ronin, in Endgame was killing violent criminals, effectively becoming The Punisher for five years after losing his family, as he felt they did not deserve to live while innocents like his family were taken. His primary targets mentioned or shown are the Mexican Cartel and the Yakuza. When confronted by someone he loves with his actions he stops.

On 8/16/2026 at 9:25 AM, Renny The Spaceman said:

But at the end of the day, it's nice to see cross company collaboration with the Russos setting the whole film in the third act of Supergirl

Yeah, majority of Avengers: Doomsday just looks like slop which I think could have a negative impact on future sets because the appeal may just end up being figures alone like with the Endgame Final Battle sets. It's concerning because unless Avengers: Secret Wars gets delayed, they'll be spending less time on post-production and visuals for that film so it'll probably look even worse.

[JeanGreyForever]

24 minutes ago, brickbride said:

Don't forget Spidey's buddy Ned who not only - somehow - has magic powers but also can - somehow - without any training create portals to other dimensions, including to the Mirror Dimension which he should not even know about. 

Wait, what? Comic Avengers don't kill? Do the writers think that being pummeled with a vibranium shield by a supersoldier is somehow good for your health? Or that Thor's huge warhammer is for doing home repairs? How does Hawkeye reconcile this mindset with his only ability which is shooting people full of arrows? Never mind, I don't think I want to know.

Like I've posted before, I've recently watched Crime 101 with Chris Hemsworth in the lead. It's not a masterpiece but he plays a pretty interesting character, a guy who basically has trouble with normal human interaction due to his traumatic past, and he absolutely nails it. I'm not saying he's a great actor but he could do more than the MCU let him do.

In general the lead acting of the MCU is all over the place. There are some excellent leads who can sell pretty much anything (RDJ, Benedict Cumberbatch, Tom Hiddleston, Chris Pratt; I'm also a huge fan of Brie Larson's Carol though I'm in the minority there). The two former even sold their characters' appearances in the rather more juvenile Spidey movies (which had to have taken some real effort especially on Cumberbatch's part since his character was constantly being bested at his own game by a bunch of untrained kids). And Chris Pratt's utter refusal to put any effort at all into his horrendously written, completely out-of-character cameo in Thor 4 might actually be my favourite part of that movie.

The worst lead actors I've seen so far are Simu Liu and Anthony Mackie. Simu Liu was clearly cast for his martial arts skills and those are top-notch, so I won't pile on him. But Anthony Mackie's Falcon is just dull and unmemorable at best and unlikeable at worst. I wonder if they had such a big role in mind when they cast him. All the stupid crap he has to spout in TFATWS certainly doesn't help, but I saw BNW before I watched this and even in a straight-up action movie he didn't deliver; he looked so uncomfortable in his bantering scenes and he didn't seem to care at all when the new Falcon, supposedly his bestie, was shot down right in front of him. Compare that to Tony Stark's face when Spidey got Blipped on Titan! Recasting him after Endgame might have been worth a shot but now here we are.

 

I always assumed the Ned thing was just a gag, but knowing Marvel, they would really make it into a real thing. Like making him Hobgoblin and go bad like NWH jokes about.

Generally speaking comic Avengers don't kill, although maybe that's changed in the modern comics. In the 60s, when the Avengers debuted, they would never be able to depict a hero killing someone. They had a strict comic code, much like the Hayes Code that ruled Hollywood from the 1930s-60s. And decades later, Marvel said that Hulk has never killed anyone, despite all his rampages throughout his existence. It was the way of keeping his reputation spotless and clean as a hero. I think maybe they did establish he's killed in some of his rampages to justify Planet Hulk and sending him out into space, but I don't remember clearly. But this came to mind since a certain spoiler character in BND was being criticized here and called a mass murderer, whereas the director just clarified that said spoiler character never killed anyone. Which the movie narrative also established through Peter's dialogue but since some people couldn't accept that, the director had to reiterate that this is true. 

I've only seen Chris Hemsworth in some comedies. I'll say he's decent in comedy especially when he plays himbos since self-deprecating humor seems to suit him. But you can tell that most of his appeal in Hollywood comes from his looks, which is generally true for a high percentage of actors and actresses. I do like Brie Larson as an actress and I think she gives Carol her all, it's just Carol is pretty badly written imo. Marvel seemed to think if they just introduced a female superhero and made her powerful, that would be enough for her to get popular. But she needed more depth than just being the most powerful Avenger and they never seemed to know what to do with her, especially in terms of personality. I feel like they didn't try with her since they felt her existence as a powerful superheroine would be enough. With Wanda, you can tell they weren't expecting her to be a breakout character, since they were so busy pushing Carol as their female face of the company, and that probably worked to Wanda's benefit since they weren't as carefully curating her character, which is how we got WandaVision. She was allowed to have depth and be a messy character and that's why she resonated whereas Carol wasn't ever allowed to feel like a real human being. 
For Benedict Cumberbatch, he was unlucky in the sense that he has to play second fiddle to Spider-Man in NWH, since he can't beat Spider-Man in a Spider-Man movie, and then he more or less had to play second fiddle to Wanda in his own movie. I do think he was able to mesh well with the more juvenile tone of NWH, especially since this was after he was demoted from Sorcerer Supreme so that already undercut some of his authority.

Definitely agree on Simu Liu and Anthony Mackie. As many have said repeatedly on here, Shang-Chi was a movie where all the supporting characters are infinitely more interesting than the actual lead. And I'm inclined to agree with Chinese audiences that Simu lacks leading man looks and isn't conventionally attractive. They were much harsher than what I'm saying but Asian cultures have very high beauty standards, especially when it comes to actors. Simu definitely would not have an acting career in China. Anthony Mackie was always a supporting character actor. When he was cast as Falcon, I doubt Marvel had in mind that one day they'd have him as the face of the franchise and the new Captain America. I think the comics had already done that before Falcon debuted in the MCU, but I don't think they realized the MCU would get big enough to a point where the lead actors would leave and Marvel would have to continue on with the next generation of heroes. If they want to keep Sam as Falcon after Secret Wars, I wonder if they might consider using that soft reboot as an excuse to recast with a younger actor with more leading man energy. To this day I've never watched BNW. Falcon and the Winter Soldier was a chore enough. I just hope they don't promote his Falcon sidekick to a lead role anytime soon.

[JeanGreyForever]

24 minutes ago, brickbride said:

@JeanGreyForever

I disagree about the MCU Avengers having a clean public image. The six core members contain a weapons manufacturer, a pretty much uncontrollable (at that point in time) rage monster, and two SHIELD assassins.

Personally I'm no fan of the Ronin storyline because it just doesn't seem to mesh with the character; there's no in-story reason given whatsoever why this Midwestern, All-American guy would speak fluent Japanese, know how to wield a katana, or identify with Japanese culture all of a sudden. I also agree with you that Clint's motivations weren't noble, but it still shows something about his character: Clint went off the rails in a vigilante way whereas Wanda went off the rails in a way that benefitted only her and hurt everyone else.

I'd say if there's a double standard here it's more about how Clint (and Nat) being assassins under orders from SHIELD is acceptable whereas Clint being one on his own time is not. Especially given that SHIELD at the time consisted mostly of Hydra higher-ups so Clint picking the targets instead of them might have been preferrable!

Also Natasha considers herself a monster a) because she can't have children (a very stupid plotline but Canon accoring to AoU) and b) she has "red in her ledger" due to her kills as a Widow, which presumably were innocent victims as opposed to the kind SHIELD (and Ronin) would have gone after. And while she also has a family, Clint has kids, which makes a difference (Nat's family are all adults who can function without her, even if they'd rather not). Besides Nat having a family of any kind clearly wasn't planned in Endgame; she was completely baffled when the Red Skull gave her father's name (and it was not Alexej either!).

I wholly agree with you that the MCU writers have weird double standards about women (especially regarding motherhood/motherly feelings), and that they're too quick to kill off females over males (Gamora's another example). I just don't think the Ronin arc is a great example.

I didn't know about Wonder Man's cancellation but good riddance. Like I've said, Ben Kingsley was excellent as Trevor, but the hero was so self-centered and unlikeable and focused on what he "deserved" at the expense of everyone else that we don't need to see more of him IMO.

I would agree with you but we see the reputation of the Avengers in the MCU and the public seems to adore them. Like all the fans Hawkeye has in his show from being an Avenger. And even in BND, we see how popular Hulk is with his students and he's easily the most volatile of the Avengers. I don't remember how much the public is aware of the checkered pasts of Black Widow and Hawkeye, but Hulk's various rampages have always been publicly recorded so he would probably be the most infamous member of the team, but that doesn't seem to make his students afraid of him. Iron Man being a weapons manufacturer is also something that doesn't come up much after the original movie. The only time it seems to come up is with Wanda's past and how he was responsible for so much damage to Sokovia. Otherwise, we see how popular Iron Man is in the MCU with the public populace, children, and Peter. The reason the Thunderbolts/New Avengers work is because they have the exact opposite public image of the original Avengers who were seen as more clean-cut heroes. And Sam's Avengers are supposed to be considered the legitimate team since they follow in the footsteps of Steve's Avengers.

My headcanon would be that Ronin was e something from Hawkeye's past as an assassin before working for SHIELD. In the comics, Echo was Ronin and joined the New Avengers. When Clint comes back from the dead, he doesn't feel emotionally ready to be Hawkeye again so he takes on the Ronin mantle from Echo. But Hawkeye also took on a lot of different mantles in the comics, like a brief period he was Goliath and used Pym Particles to basically be Giant-Man.

I think that shows how corrupt most of these governments are and it's a reflection of real-life governments and how most of them compete against each other in underhanded ways, including recruiting foreign talents to use as spies or assassins. And how many organizations and paramilitary groups are funded by countries in power to destabilize weaker ones for political gain. As you said, SHIELD turned out to be corrupt so it makes sense that they'd recruit assassins. In the comics, Hawkeye was literally just a circus criminal who fell in love with Black Widow, a Soviet spy, and they'd fight Iron Man before both quickly reformed. A lot of those early Iron Man comics were heavily themed around the Cold War in the 60s-70s.

From what I remember, AoU had a major controversy over Black Widow saying she was a monster, with people thinking this meant that her inability to have children, from being sterilized, implied women who can't be mothers are monsters. And I think the actual point was that Natasha thinking she was a monster wasn't because she was sterilized but because of her time in the Red Room and being trained as a killer since being a child. The sterilization was just part of the training but that itself wasn't why she called herself a monster, however the movie was vague enough that it was misinterpreted. But maybe that's me giving the movie's writing the benefit of the doubt lol, since I do remember there was a huge uproar over that line. By AoU, SHIELD has already been exposed as taken over by HYDRA so I feel at that point, Natasha would know that a lot of the people she must have killed for SHIELD were probably good people who were a threat to HYDRA. Same with Clint. That their work for SHIELD probably wasn't very innocent either. I don't know when Black Widow's movie was put into production so I'm curious if they already had an idea for her backstory and family while writing Endgame, or if the movie wasn't greenlighted until after Endgame came out. I don't remember the timeline now.

I read Gamora was actually supposed to die in GOTG2. James Gunn found out about the Infinity War storyline and then decided it would work better to kill her off there. It does seem like female characters are more prone to being killed off (Black Widow, Gamora, Wanda) compared to the male ones (Quicksilver, Iron Man, and quite frankly, with RDJ coming back, I find it hard to believe they won't bring Iron Man back either. Even if it's just for a single movie). I mentioned earlier that it's shocking in Doomsday's cast of 26-27 actors, that only 6 of them are female. And I recently saw a Doomsday T-shirt with all the X-Men characters but instead of Mystique, they had Thor randomly there instead. It reminds me of the early-mid 2010s, when Marvel got a lot of flack for excluding Black Widow and Gamora on their merch.

Wonder Man's cancellation has also been very controversial. A lot of fans think Disney/Marvel keeps cancelling or undercutting the black actor productions. How the War Machine Disney+ spinoff show was cancelled. How Mahershala Ali's Blade was basically delayed and delayed for almost a decade before being unceremoniously cancelled, while Ryan Gosling's Ghost Rider was immediately greenlighted. How Monica is being cut out of Doomsday, despite being in the Foxverse at the end of The Marvels. How Ironheart wasn't promoted. How Sam's Captain America was set up to fail. I do agree that there's a pattern that women and minorities don't get the same multiple opportunities that the white male actors usually get. I never watched Wonder Man so I can't comment on it. Didn't know Trevor was in it but that makes sense, considering Wonder Man is an actor.

41 minutes ago, Scarilian said:

In regards to Hawkeye figure potential, we got the CMF figure in 2023, so the lack of Ronin after the appearance in 2019's Avengers: Endgame is a strange one. Especially so because the Ronin outfit appeared again in the Hawkeye series in 2021. You could easily had the Ronin outfit without the likeness of the actor, you even have it worn by someone else you could say it is adapting, yet here we are 7 years later and we don't have it despite fan demand.

I was unaware of the situation regarding the actor but admittedly at this point I don't desire another Hawkeye figure, sure we have a few suit variations it'd be neat to get, but most I just want to get the Ronin suit as it looked cool and could work as a detailed non-MCU version.

No double standard on display, one is impacting innocents the other is impacting violent criminals.

• Wanda as Wanda, in WandaVision tortured an entire town of innocent civilians mentally, physically and emotionally to live out her warped childhood TV shows, to the point of it causing so much pain for them constantly that people were begging for her to kill them, including trapping children and babies in their rooms and not allowing family members to see them at all. When confronted by someone she loves with her actions she refuses to stop.
• Clint as Ronin, in Endgame was killing violent criminals, effectively becoming The Punisher for five years after losing his family, as he felt they did not deserve to live while innocents like his family were taken. His primary targets mentioned or shown are the Mexican Cartel and the Yakuza. When confronted by someone he loves with his actions he stops.

I feel like Endgame must be the movie Lego has made the most sets of and revisits most often. Which I think is why it's more jarring we don't have a Ronin minifigure. He's been highly requested and has a pretty unique look. It looks like Lego Marvel avoids anything ninja-related between the omission of Ronin and The Hand in BND sets.

I don't think Lego will be blacklisting Hawkeye because of Jeremy Renner's latest controversy. I'm sure we'll continue to see minifigs of him from sets of previous movies because if they wanted to blacklist him, they would have done it ages ago.

That's fair, but I also think it's important to note that Wanda does eventually let the town go especially after her confrontation with Monica, hence why Monica forgives her. And when Clint was talked down, it was by Natasha who was the person closest to him besides his family and basically family to him anyway. In Wanda's case, she has no one that close to her since all her family were dead or they'd cease to exist once she gave up her spell. She has no real relationship with Monica or anyone else there. If she had a Pietro or a Vision who was actually alive to confront her earlier, I'm sure she would have listened to reason. Similarly, if someone outside of Natasha had confronted Clint over being Ronin, I don't know if he'd respond the same way. And another important factor is that Natasha comes to recruit Clint for the purpose of fixing the snap and essentially saving his family. He knows he can step away from what he's doing because he can get his old life back, so it's the perfect scenario for him. In Wanda's case, she's being asked to step away to give up her family, so it's the worst-case scenario for her. Clint has everything to gain and Wanda has everything to lose. It makes sense why Clint can give up that life while Wanda can't do so instantly, even though she does eventually.

[Renny The Spaceman]

22 minutes ago, Scarilian said:

Yeah, majority of Avengers: Doomsday just looks like slop which I think could have a negative impact on future sets because the appeal may just end up being figures alone like with the Endgame Final Battle sets. It's concerning because unless Avengers: Secret Wars gets delayed, they'll be spending less time on post-production and visuals for that film so it'll probably look even worse.

God, I didn't even think of that. This one still has reshoots going allegedly and the next one hasn't filmed. What we see now is the cream of the crop visually, this is what they've managed to get done months in advance of the film. I think the stories that come out of the production of these films years down the line are gonna make the likes of Spider-verse 2 or Justice League look quaint 

 

39 minutes ago, JeanGreyForever said:

I'm seeing online theories now that RDJ isn't the real Doom and there's another actor who will be the real Doom as part of the twist and he'll actually be European or at least capable of giving a European-sounding accent. So I think people are already trying to cope through these theories lol.

This has gone around for a while, doesn't really make sense from a production POV and would be massively convoluted, to spend half a film building up this new villain who's close with these character's they never met before, then twist reveal it's a different guy you've also never met before. But, yeah, shows how embarrassing the project is with this much cope already.

Now with the Avengers killing/having a clean public image thing I think you're both right. They have a clean public image, and they are murderers, this is because Iron-Man 1 and everything that span out from it is VERY post War on Terror. The Avengers are privatised justice that can do whatever they want, and that is a morally squeaky clean thing you don't have to interrogate. Even Civil War throws away the discussion of anything adjacent to that very quickly and becomes about Bucky and Super-soldier armies, then come infinity war they just handwave the conflict and the Accords are undone off screen later. If you were doing an actual Secret Wars adaptation that'd be really juicy to play with, all the factions in that story are beholden to their own personal bubbles at the expense of the greater good but this film is just mashing action figures together.  

This all plays naturally into the stuff we talked about before with the ways superheroes sorta become a weird class when these films don't care about all the regular people around them, they're squeaky clean because they are superheroes bad things they do it's fine because they are superheroes. And if we want to get into spoilers for these upcoming films:

Spoiler

It then is very telling the film opens with the (temporary?) destruction of the Raimi universe as that is the only one of the franchises involved which doesn't do that. The project of the MCU, as it is now is in direct conflict with how those original Spidey films told these stories while the Deadpool/X-Men stuff is really their blueprint

 

[brickbride]

2 hours ago, JeanGreyForever said:

I would agree with you but we see the reputation of the Avengers in the MCU and the public seems to adore them. (...)

Because they're heroes. Kate Bishop didn't care that the guy who saved her from the Chitauri was a SHIELD assassin, she cared that he saved her from the Chitauri. Even the far more controversial Thunderbolts have their share of fans as seen in the ending montage of their movie. The Avengers have been around for longer, and I do think that there was a concerted effort (not least from SHIELD which could only benefit from having two members on the team, as it would take the focus off their less savoury activities) to clean up their public image, as well as considerable effort from individual team members (such as playboy weapons manufacturer Tony Stark switching his firm's focus towards clean energy and getting married, and Banner learning to control the Hulk). But apart from Steve and maybe Thor, whose sordid family history the public would not be privy to, they never had a squeaky-clean image.

2 hours ago, JeanGreyForever said:

Wonder Man's cancellation has also been very controversial. A lot of fans think Disney/Marvel keeps cancelling or undercutting the black actor productions. (...)

Wait, what? I guess the Blade thing is annoying but War Machine as a character is even duller than Falconcap, why would they give him his own show after the fiasco that is Falconcap's reign as Cap? Speaking of, Anthony Mackie keeps being handed opportunity after opportunity (far more than any female in the MCU so far) despite not being a good actor or playing a compelling character. And how is Monica not being in Doomsday a problem, but Carol not being in it isn't?

As for Wonder Man: So this completely unknown character that wasn't in any previous MCU materials is being gifted his own series (when, for example, Hawkeye's own series only came after numerous MCU appearances, and then it was barely about him at all). It was being promoted a lot, too, I came across it because it was being called "the best Marvel series you haven't seen" or something after it'd just come out. It just wasn't that great, the plot was kind of nonsensical and I didn't think Yahya Abdul-Mateen II was such a great actor either (especially for a show about showbiz where we're constantly told what a great actor he is). Most MCU Disney+ series don't get a second season. Hawkeye's was cancelled, too. And Agatha All Along (which was far better written and acted than Wonder Man, and more interesting both thematically and stylistically, but was aimed at, you know, the lesser target group of women) was never even in the running for one as far as I know. Plus my main problem with the Wonder Man series is that the hero is an entitled load who feels like he deserves to be handed everything he wants (including the lead role in a superhero action flick) and doesn't take responsibility for his actions. So the fact that his fans think he deserves a second season, period, and if he doesn't get one it cannot possibly be due to the show's lack of merits is both hilariously on brand and pretty sad.

2 hours ago, JeanGreyForever said:

I feel like Endgame must be the movie Lego has made the most sets of and revisits most often. Which I think is why it's more jarring we don't have a Ronin minifigure.

I can't imagine LEGO would police their content to the extent that Ronin doesn't get a fig because of his Punisher-like actions. We've certainly had minifigs for characters with a much higher body count (like Thanos) and worse morals (*coughWandacough*). Or Batman over at DC, even from adaptations where the "Batman doesn't kill" rule doesn't seem to have been in effect. More likely LEGO figure that Hawkeye is the least popular of the original Avengers (he was missing from the Marvel logo set, too, with some absurd explanation about how his bow and arrow would have taken up too much space) and that this particular aspect of him would be even less popular and desirable. Also Ronin never appears in a team setting, the closest is the scene where Nat recruits him and that's probably not iconic enough for a set. Having Ronin in a set (as a stand-in for Hawkeye) alongside other heroes would look weird.

Edited Monday at 01:47 PM by brickbride

[Mandalorianknight]

9 hours ago, brickbride said:

They don't need to make fun of his name, they just have to not have him spout ridiculous lines like "Hell answers to me, for I am Doom". I don't care for Thor's "You will beg for Hell" line before it either because the Norse concept of Hel is entirely different from the Christian concept of Hell. 

As for some of the characters you've mentioned:

Eternals: Only like half of them were abducted. The other half, including Angelina Jolie's Tena character, are on their spaceship (the Domo - it has its own LEGO set) and have just met a guy claiming to be Thanos' brother (played by Harry Styles). Also Sersi's human lover is back on Earth with a family heirloom sword that speaks with the voice of Blade which seems like another loose end.

Captain Marvel: I know you haven't seen The Marvels but she's definitely on Earth, playing caretaker for her friend Maria's (now her daughter Monica's) house "just until Monica comes back". Which at this rate and given the box office performance of The Marvels might well be never. Still, having her suddenly be off-world again would establish her as disloyal and not keeping her commitments, so I'd rather have them avoid that.

Star-Lord: This also goes for Captain Marvel: They're both known heroes and neither of them are hiding their presence. Carol's living at her deceased bestie's (probably the only person on Earth she's still associated with) house. Star-Lord is living with his grandfather who shares his last name. You'd think that whoever's in charge (such as, say, Val) would put an alert on their names and birth dates coupled with the locations of their known associates, so that if a guy with a name of Peter Quill and a matching birth date shows up in Missouri at the home of Star-Lord's known grandfather, they could keep track of him. 

Calling it "his" show is quite a stretch given that it was like one quarter (at best!) about Clint, one quarter (at least!) about Kate, one quarter shilling of Echo, and one quarter shilling of Yelena. I actually like MCU Clint a great deal and think that Jeremy Renner does very well with him. I think most of the backlash is simply due to comics fans having expected someone different.

Still I agree that he should remain retired. He's one of the few MCU heroes who actually have some place to retire to, and he's just a regular guy with numerous health issues by now. He's done his part.

I gotta disagree on this, "Hell answers to me, for I am Doom" is the exact type of thing Doom says on a regular basis in the comics. It's part of the fun for me- you have to accept that this wizard in a robot suit talks like that. At least he's not referring to himself in the third person every sentence.

As for Thor, I've been assuming he says Hel- it is also a realm of the dead, is it not? My assumption was he was essentially telling doom "You're going to wish you were dead before I'm done with you".

This is another one where I think there's a totally plausible in universe reason for them to not be present or mentioned- given these guys live on a longer timescale and weren't on earth at the end of the film, they can just be off trying to rescue their other half of the team. None of the MCU heroes have ever met them, so I don't think anyone in Doomsday needs to say anything. (The out of universe reason is Angelina Jolie and Harry Styles in a movie that did not bring the box office to justify adding those paychecks to doomsday. Honestly they shot themselves in the foot with harry styles, unless they were expecting avengers numbers right off the bat he was never going to become a cast member in any real capacity)

Right- I know she was on earth as of the end of that movie, I'm saying if she's not in Doomsday they need a line from somebody saying she's offworld. I think if it's specified that she's offworld dealing with the incursion crisis on other planets, that doesn't make her disloyal.

I guess it's possible, if the avengers ever logged star-lord's personal information (which I guess is likely given that apparently Nick Fury had Drax's DNA), but then what? This crisis comes up and they're going to go take time out of dealing with it to go to missouri and grab the unpowered human who seems to be retired and hasn't helped with any threats so far? I'm fine believing that if Bucky scanned Val's databanks he would decide they don't have time to go try and convince Peter Quill to come help. Maybe during the scene where Thor tells Sam and Bucky to team up, we can get a line from Bucky saying he's asked Peter Quill to contact the guardians, but I don't think we necessarily even need that.

Yeah. Clint is a great character but he really has nothing left to give. The whole point of his show was allowing himself to finally retire. The world has scores of heroes, most of them much stronger than him. His family only has one Clint Barton.

5 hours ago, Scarilian said:

No double standard on display, one is impacting innocents the other is impacting violent criminals.

Yeah, I never got why this is such a barrier for people. Characters like Hawkeye and Punisher who kill gangsters and criminals (or John, who kills one superpowered terrorist) aren't really equivalent to someone like Wanda who massacred scores of good guys and/or innocent people.

Like, in MoM wanda kills a bunch of sorcerers, another universe's hero group, etc, all in an attempt to... steal children from another version of herself.

2 hours ago, brickbride said:

Wait, what? I guess the Blade thing is annoying but War Machine as a character is even duller than Falconcap, why would they give him his own show after the fiasco that is Falconcap's reign as Cap? Speaking of, Anthony Mackie keeps being handed opportunity after opportunity (far more than any female in the MCU so far) despite not being a good actor or playing a compelling character. And how is Monica not being in Doomsday a problem, but Carol not being in it isn't?

Yeah the only one that you can really "get" marvel on is Blade, and... come on, if you read the production behind it, obviously the reason is not that Blade is a black guy. Marvel kept sending Ali scrips that were about Blade's daughter (who presumably is also black), and there was a disconnect in where it seems like Blade wanted a "Blade kills a bunch of vampires" movie and Marvel wanted either a big team up or a movie focusing on his daughter.

Edited Monday at 03:46 PM by Mandalorianknight

[JeanGreyForever]

15 hours ago, Renny The Spaceman said:

God, I didn't even think of that. This one still has reshoots going allegedly and the next one hasn't filmed. What we see now is the cream of the crop visually, this is what they've managed to get done months in advance of the film. I think the stories that come out of the production of these films years down the line are gonna make the likes of Spider-verse 2 or Justice League look quaint 

 

This has gone around for a while, doesn't really make sense from a production POV and would be massively convoluted, to spend half a film building up this new villain who's close with these character's they never met before, then twist reveal it's a different guy you've also never met before. But, yeah, shows how embarrassing the project is with this much cope already.

Now with the Avengers killing/having a clean public image thing I think you're both right. They have a clean public image, and they are murderers, this is because Iron-Man 1 and everything that span out from it is VERY post War on Terror. The Avengers are privatised justice that can do whatever they want, and that is a morally squeaky clean thing you don't have to interrogate. Even Civil War throws away the discussion of anything adjacent to that very quickly and becomes about Bucky and Super-soldier armies, then come infinity war they just handwave the conflict and the Accords are undone off screen later. If you were doing an actual Secret Wars adaptation that'd be really juicy to play with, all the factions in that story are beholden to their own personal bubbles at the expense of the greater good but this film is just mashing action figures together.  

This all plays naturally into the stuff we talked about before with the ways superheroes sorta become a weird class when these films don't care about all the regular people around them, they're squeaky clean because they are superheroes bad things they do it's fine because they are superheroes. And if we want to get into spoilers for these upcoming films:

  Reveal hidden contents

It then is very telling the film opens with the (temporary?) destruction of the Raimi universe as that is the only one of the franchises involved which doesn't do that. The project of the MCU, as it is now is in direct conflict with how those original Spidey films told these stories while the Deadpool/X-Men stuff is really their blueprint

 

Infinity War and Endgame were both shot back to back. I remember Brie Larson filmed all her scenes for Endgame before she ever filmed for Captain Marvel. The Russos said they left her a bit of a blank slate in Endgame because she didn't have a set personality yet since her movie was still in production, and they didn't want to influence how she was portrayed there. So I find it interesting that we went from IW/Endgame being shot back to back to now where Doomsday is still getting reshoots and Secret Wars hasn't even been filmed yet or not completed anyway. And Alan Cumming also confirmed that Doomsday had no set script. Everyday, they'd come on set and be given new directions and a new script and it was constantly in flux and changing.

The amount of "sources" I'm seeing that Cillian Murphy is the real Doom and we'll see him in Secret Wars is laughable. Even if that was the case, there's no way they could hide that another actor has been on set all this time. And if he's so isolated that he filmed all his scenes solo, that would just show how little integrated he is in the movie. Right now people are also scrutinizing the eyes behind the various Doom masks and how the good Doom mask has different eyes and how that must be RDJ while the evil mask is someone else. 

I think that's the best explanation. The only time the Avengers get a bit of backlash is in the beginning of Civil War, since that's necessary for the plot. The aftermath of Sokovia with Ultron and then the Crossbones attack which gets blamed on the Avengers. After that, we steamroll over into IW/Endgame and the Avengers basically don't exist after that, outside of ex-Avengers like Hawkeye and Hulk who are still treated as beloved celebrities.

Spoiler

In fact, I've seen some sources say that the opening with the Raimiverse getting essentially nuked by the FoX-Men has been cut out or heavily altered. I can see that because it's been very controversial and polarizing. A lot of people said they weren't going to be able to support such genocidal mutants who keep destroying other universes and that the X-Men lose any moral ground. And others said they have zero interest in seeing their childhood Raimi movies get erased from existence, let alone watching Tobey die in the opening. Wondering now if reshoots are being done because of the backlash to this leak. Marvel has to play it much safer this time around than they did with IW and Endgame. And they must have also seen the implication of BND outgrossing Doomsday.

 

[JeanGreyForever]

13 hours ago, brickbride said:

Because they're heroes. Kate Bishop didn't care that the guy who saved her from the Chitauri was a SHIELD assassin, she cared that he saved her from the Chitauri. Even the far more controversial Thunderbolts have their share of fans as seen in the ending montage of their movie. The Avengers have been around for longer, and I do think that there was a concerted effort (not least from SHIELD which could only benefit from having two members on the team, as it would take the focus off their less savoury activities) to clean up their public image, as well as considerable effort from individual team members (such as playboy weapons manufacturer Tony Stark switching his firm's focus towards clean energy and getting married, and Banner learning to control the Hulk). But apart from Steve and maybe Thor, whose sordid family history the public would not be privy to, they never had a squeaky-clean image.

Wait, what? I guess the Blade thing is annoying but War Machine as a character is even duller than Falconcap, why would they give him his own show after the fiasco that is Falconcap's reign as Cap? Speaking of, Anthony Mackie keeps being handed opportunity after opportunity (far more than any female in the MCU so far) despite not being a good actor or playing a compelling character. And how is Monica not being in Doomsday a problem, but Carol not being in it isn't?

As for Wonder Man: So this completely unknown character that wasn't in any previous MCU materials is being gifted his own series (when, for example, Hawkeye's own series only came after numerous MCU appearances, and then it was barely about him at all). It was being promoted a lot, too, I came across it because it was being called "the best Marvel series you haven't seen" or something after it'd just come out. It just wasn't that great, the plot was kind of nonsensical and I didn't think Yahya Abdul-Mateen II was such a great actor either (especially for a show about showbiz where we're constantly told what a great actor he is). Most MCU Disney+ series don't get a second season. Hawkeye's was cancelled, too. And Agatha All Along (which was far better written and acted than Wonder Man, and more interesting both thematically and stylistically, but was aimed at, you know, the lesser target group of women) was never even in the running for one as far as I know. Plus my main problem with the Wonder Man series is that the hero is an entitled load who feels like he deserves to be handed everything he wants (including the lead role in a superhero action flick) and doesn't take responsibility for his actions. So the fact that his fans think he deserves a second season, period, and if he doesn't get one it cannot possibly be due to the show's lack of merits is both hilariously on brand and pretty sad.

I can't imagine LEGO would police their content to the extent that Ronin doesn't get a fig because of his Punisher-like actions. We've certainly had minifigs for characters with a much higher body count (like Thanos) and worse morals (*coughWandacough*). Or Batman over at DC, even from adaptations where the "Batman doesn't kill" rule doesn't seem to have been in effect. More likely LEGO figure that Hawkeye is the least popular of the original Avengers (he was missing from the Marvel logo set, too, with some absurd explanation about how his bow and arrow would have taken up too much space) and that this particular aspect of him would be even less popular and desirable. Also Ronin never appears in a team setting, the closest is the scene where Nat recruits him and that's probably not iconic enough for a set. Having Ronin in a set (as a stand-in for Hawkeye) alongside other heroes would look weird.

I think it varies with characterization. An example is Zendaya's character. She's shown to be very woke and conscientious, like refusing to see the Washington Monument since it was constructed by slaves. I find it hard to believe that her character would be so accepting of Peter's mentor being Tony Stark, when he has such a spotty record of human rights violations. Gen Z, who Zendaya is supposed to embody, would not support him as a hero. But her character is also so inconsistently written and undeveloped even after 4 movies. She just exists to be Peter's love interest and nothing else. She's had more movies than both Kirsten Dunst's MJ and Emma Stone's Gwen but they were both much more fully formed characters and had lives independent of Peter. My guess is with Black Widow and Hawkeye, most of their records would be cleaned up and not available for public consumption, especially while SHIELD was in charge. Iron Man and Hulk would have the most controversial reputations and Iron Man, being a witty, attractive billionaire, would have enough positive PR and media attention to scrub his image clean after his redemption. I don't remember when Hulk's Bruce Banner identity became public in the MCU.

Armor Wars was supposed to be a Disney+ show featuring War Machine and Vision. Eventually they scrapped that and kept Vision around for his own show, the upcoming VisionQuest. I'm not a War Machine fan, and like Falcon, I think he suffers from being nothing more than a sidekick so I agree that I don't think he'd be able to carry his own show. I think the original casting, with Terrence Howard, was much stronger and Terrence could have carried his own project. But that ironically is what killed his time with the MCU since he demanded more payment for the sequel since he was a much bigger name than Don Cheadle was. I also agree that Anthony Mackie has been given a lot of opportunities, including Doomsday, where he's still primed as one of the leads. I think a case can be made that he was sabotaged from the beginning to never be able to make it, especially after the long gap between BNW and Falcon and the Winter Soldier. Him becoming Captain America should have been saved for the silver screen rather than a Disney+ show, particularly in an Avengers movie to see if he could carry his own movie afterwards. But I definitely agree that he's been afforded more chances than Brie Larson, who Marvel seems to have just cut out completely. The people saying Monica has been unfairly sidelined are also saying Carol and Kamala have been treated similarly. In fact, one could argue that out of those three, Monica was primed to have the most importance due to her being the bridge to the Foxverse. I've also heard rumors that she was supposed to have her own Disney+ show after The Marvels, set during her time in the Foxverse, but it was cancelled after the failure of The Marvels. I can see that being true since WandaVision was successful enough that they thought they could make multiple spinoff shows based on the supporting cast. That worked for Agatha All Along, one of their highest watched shows, but Agatha was also a breakout character. I don't recall Monica ever being a breakout character and I think they needed to build her up more before making her a lead in The Marvels. 

I'll take your word for it since I haven't seen Wonder Man, and tbh, I barely saw it promoted so I only really heard about it after it was cancelled and when there was social media backlash. I think part of the reason there was so much backlash was because it got award nominations and was confirmed for S2 a while back. Most Disney+ shows, as you said, don't get multiple seasons so this one did get one confirmed before Disney backtracked. And from what I've also heard, this was a Disney decision and not a Feige decision. Someone involved with the show said Feige did want a S2 and had planned for one but he was overruled by Disney as Disney seems to be cracking down on limiting Disney+ shows. Wonder Man did come across as an odd character to spotlight, especially so close to Doomsday, since he's clearly not involved in the movies and we already have a full roster of Disney+ show characters who won't be in the movies and we don't really need another. Most of the characters he's heavily connected to in the comics are ones he has nothing to do with in the MCU, like Vision, Scarlet Witch and Beast. I think this show was maybe less about connecting to the MCU and more about critical acclaim and award recognition, hence the premise of an ordinary "superhero" who lives a public life that happens to take place in the MCU.

Maybe, but Lego does seem to have very strict rules on what they can or cannot adapt. Like I'm convinced at this point they won't adapt The Hand since there was no reason to exclude them from BND sets, especially based on how heavily involved they were in marketing. Anything remotely connected to Daredevil seems off-limits now. Ronin, between his MCU actions, plus originating in the comics as Echo, a Daredevil character, and being a ninja character like The Hand, might have crossed too many gray lines to be considered viable as a figure. But you're also right that there's no real set possibility that could have featured him. However, I do think if Lego really wanted to make Ronin, they'd have just thrown him in one of those Endgame final battle sets. They've shown they're willing to stray from movie canon when they want to, like how many Thor minifigures don't match his looks from specific movies. Another example being the Raimi Spider-Man 2 set which threw in J. Jonah Jameson and Aunt May, both of whom weren't in the train scene.

[brickbride]

@JeanGreyForever

Zendaya's MJ: I actually think her character is more fleshed out and more consistently written than Gwen, whose characterisation consisted of endless waffling about whether or not to be with Spider-Man. However she's plain unlikeable to me - very negative, hypocritical, and frankly disturbing (the bit that stands out to me from FFH is her favourite flower being the black dahlia "because of the murder"). I agree that she wouldn't much approve of Tony Stark, however I can't see anyone (even Peter) asking her opinion. While Peter is inexplicably in love with her, he's also a hero and someone who always sees the best in people. He would not cut ties with Tony Stark just because this mentorship offends MJ's woke sensibilities.

Anthonie Mackie being sabotaged: He was given the shield in Endgame, what better endorsement could there be? All the backtracking in TFATWS would not make for a good movie, in fact a TFATWS movie would flop so hard. I think that they made BNW a straight action flick with next to no character stuff for Falcon partly because of Mackie's limited capabilities, but partly also because they may have realized how unlikeably he came across in the more character-driven TFATWS (constantly siding with terrorists over their victims, somehow being able to clear Sharon Carter's name but never having bothered to do so until he needed a huge favour from her, and so on).

2 hours ago, JeanGreyForever said:

That worked for Agatha All Along, one of their highest watched shows, but Agatha was also a breakout character. I don't recall Monica ever being a breakout character and I think they needed to build her up more before making her a lead in The Marvels. 

I'll take your word for it since I haven't seen Wonder Man, (...) I think this show was maybe less about connecting to the MCU and more about critical acclaim and award recognition, hence the premise of an ordinary "superhero" who lives a public life that happens to take place in the MCU.

If Agatha was one of their highest watched shows why was there never talk of it getting a S2?

Yeah, I didn't much care for Monica in either WandaVision or The Marvels. She came across as very antagonistic in the latter, constantly giving Carol the cold shoulder for not having checked up on her enough during the Blip (when Carol had had much bigger fish to fry). And there was a really awful cut scene where Monica was grieving her dead mother and the next second was spouting exposition about space phenomena as if nothing had happened. I felt like the "crossing the barrier" scene in WandaVision was solely designed in order to give Monica superpowers (since she didn't really end up doing anything worthwhile after she'd crossed it) and I felt like Monica getting stranded in the X-Verse in The Marvels was, again, solely designed so she'd end up where the writers wanted her to. There was no real emotional impact from either of those events.

I wouldn't set much store by Wonder Man getting critical acclaim or award recognition given the subject matter. The show is basically a love letter to the entertainment industrie with lots of commentary about how True Artists have it so hard compared to everyone else, therefore many members of the entertainment industrie would like it. Moreso than your average viewer (personally I found all the self-congratulatory stuff rather off-putting). Also the hero, Simon, is neither a superhero (he does have superpowers but never does anything heroic) nor lives a public superhero life (most of the plot involves him trying to hide his powers). As per the end of S1 he's both very famous and on the run from the authorities, so you couldn't even have had a S2 where he tries to balance out an ordinary life with superhero-ing. Maybe they just figured the show had run its course.

Edited 23 hours ago by brickbride

[Renny The Spaceman]

17 hours ago, JeanGreyForever said:

Infinity War and Endgame were both shot back to back. I remember Brie Larson filmed all her scenes for Endgame before she ever filmed for Captain Marvel. The Russos said they left her a bit of a blank slate in Endgame because she didn't have a set personality yet since her movie was still in production, and they didn't want to influence how she was portrayed there. So I find it interesting that we went from IW/Endgame being shot back to back to now where Doomsday is still getting reshoots and Secret Wars hasn't even been filmed yet or not completed anyway. And Alan Cumming also confirmed that Doomsday had no set script. Everyday, they'd come on set and be given new directions and a new script and it was constantly in flux and changing.

The amount of "sources" I'm seeing that Cillian Murphy is the real Doom and we'll see him in Secret Wars is laughable. Even if that was the case, there's no way they could hide that another actor has been on set all this time. And if he's so isolated that he filmed all his scenes solo, that would just show how little integrated he is in the movie. Right now people are also scrutinizing the eyes behind the various Doom masks and how the good Doom mask has different eyes and how that must be RDJ while the evil mask is someone else. 

I think that's the best explanation. The only time the Avengers get a bit of backlash is in the beginning of Civil War, since that's necessary for the plot. The aftermath of Sokovia with Ultron and then the Crossbones attack which gets blamed on the Avengers. After that, we steamroll over into IW/Endgame and the Avengers basically don't exist after that, outside of ex-Avengers like Hawkeye and Hulk who are still treated as beloved celebrities.

  Reveal hidden contents

In fact, I've seen some sources say that the opening with the Raimiverse getting essentially nuked by the FoX-Men has been cut out or heavily altered. I can see that because it's been very controversial and polarizing. A lot of people said they weren't going to be able to support such genocidal mutants who keep destroying other universes and that the X-Men lose any moral ground. And others said they have zero interest in seeing their childhood Raimi movies get erased from existence, let alone watching Tobey die in the opening. Wondering now if reshoots are being done because of the backlash to this leak. Marvel has to play it much safer this time around than they did with IW and Endgame. And they must have also seen the implication of BND outgrossing Doomsday.

 

Yeah, clearly, despite what fans say these films simply aren't going well production-wise, it's so clearly a mess. Sebastian Stan said the same thing.

Yeah no good ending or that theory.

Yeah, Civil War always struck me as cowardly in that sense, they acknowledge there's a problem but neglect to actual tangibly deal with it so the film derails into something else and no-one care afterwards. 

Spoiler

Are you talking about that one article that said they WANTED to open the film like that or is there another source? Because what I got from that article was that the villains part was out, not the whole scene. The backlash to the scene is kinda unheard of, you've got disney actors going onstage and saying they hate it, over a leak, if any franchise was gonna preemptively cave like this it would be the MCU. However, I don't think they can get rid of it. Firstly if Tobey and Hugh being leads in Secret Wars is true I imagine that the fake out death element plays into how they can remember the old world, hypothetically they could rejig that given t's not been shot but it's not the only thing. The X-Men being Genocidal is kinda the ONE consistent part of the plot, the thing seemingly implodes if there isn't a group of people trying to destroy the other worlds to survive the incursions, they can reshoot a lot but I don't think they can reshoot EVERYTHING. You take that out and the X-men need to be out of the script almost entirely. And then there's also the fact that legally the whatever with Sony for having Spider-Man in there might be something that's too legally messy or costly to remove. 

No, given the insane backlash and lack of script I think some changes are plausible, but not fully removing it. I could see them trying to alter it so the X-Men don't think it destroys worlds through ADR and some reshoots that's being hidden by Doom or Magneto, I could see them maybe making it so Wolverine has a chance to detonate it, hesitates or choses not to then it's set off by some fluke or accident OR I could see the film just ADRing some lines about the X-men feeling bad about it then doing something to reveal Tobey survived shortly after, rather than waiting for the next film or the post credits.