kurigan

I've been deliberating about a reply here for some time, debating if I want to open this can of worms or not. Ultimately I've decided to trust that you'll take my criticism in stride and choose not to take offense. Please do as I mean none. I want to love this ship, I really do. There is just something, I can't put my finger on that keeps me at arms length. Pinnacle is beautiful and just jumps off the page. Even as a WIP she made an immediate impression. Perhaps it's her color scheme, or long lines, but Matterhorn, at this stage just seems to pale by comparison. Now I do apologize for the sentiment, she's your baby and I know the feeling all too well, but I'd feel remiss if I didn't pipe up at some point. I know I'm one of those who told you to change it but I think I'd actually prefer the wall of white to the current white over red motif. I get that it's all about having a different color inside than out and applaud the innovation. However, I think I'd like to see something to relate the two fields of color to one another or one favored over the other entirely. I also cant seem to get past those galleris drooping. She looks sad or tired. The construction of the prive its self is great, but the mounting doesnt do the ship or its self any justice. I wonder how necessary the lean of the stern gallery is to the whole if a hard connection to the side galleries is necessary? Could the whole thing be mounted square and level and still maintain the look? The head rails look great though. There the white on black really pops. Well there it is. Do with it as you will. I'm sure she'll come out just fine and I'll be eating my words. Stick with her, and thanks for sharing.

Late to the party agin, sorry. I would suggest no figure head and especially not a white one. Being French of the late 18th century she makes as much sense with, as with out. If she were built pre-revolution, gilding, intricate gingerbread works and a grand figure head would be in order to be sure. If she were napoleonic one might expect a more toned down decor in line with the values of the sans culottes. Since I don't make out any other carvings i think a figure head of mini figure proportions would stand out just too much. If you've decided on a figure, then stick with a color already on the ship as suggested above. As for display I see no harm in leaving her larboard exposed. Its a common practice with wooden modelers and seems well appreciated in that community. Wasn't the ability to expose the lower deck a primary goal in the creation of this fine frigate after all? I'd go so far as to suggest, not only, displaying her exposed but to display along side the removed wall section with its gun battery in place. She's still looking great. Cheers to you for sticking with her and a glass to her imminent completion. P.S. something about the side galleries had been bugging me. Would you be so kind as to humor me with a level, side-on shot of her starboard side?

Apologies, it nought you were being facetious. It is my understanding that, amongst many other elements of their uniforms, marines hats depended on their regiment. Some did wear a kind of round brim hat, very like a top hat, but smaller and with a slight taper. The name escapes me but they resemble Puritan hats in miniature. The same hats were also popular for midshipman. For lack of a better peice, the Lego top has often for many builders before.

Um... Ok.

You could always brick-build your guns. Brick-built are often more to scale any way.

To be entirely honest, I am but have reservations about it, though I don't think you really need my help. I think the Minifig Customization workshop is where you'll find help making something most conducive to actually getting picked up by Lego. I'd be happy to discuss my concerns in privet but it could have no positive effect on the effort publicly, so I'll remain stoic. I'm still happy to help if you'd like. Here's a link to some of my older work for consideration, though I've been trying for greater intricacy and accuracy lately. If it shows what your looking for, if it has that"wow factor" I can come up with something for Haven Guard. http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=89295#entry1757678 http://s199.photobucket.com/user/kurigan_the_red/library/Real%20Models/Mini-Figs?sort=3&page=1

Wow! What a tremendous waste of time that was. I don't know if I'm best, or even conventional for that matter, but I do design. I haven't show much as I'm still developing my own figures but I can do fairly intricate work when I get down to it. How can I be of assistance?

Though you could continue to build her up in to something like a galleon she seems a bit small for that. A pinnace, which is similar in shape and configuration to a galleon but on a smaller scale, would seem more the thing (re: Kalmar Nyckel). I could be I'm bias, but to my eye, this seems a hull better suited to something more modern. Perhaps not quite a frigate but something in the 18th/19th century line for sure. If you take the modern tack, I'd suggest moving that formast back making more room for head sails to create a convincing profile. I might also suggest eliminating the mizzen altogether and going for a brig. If earlier vessels interest you more I'd suggest easing the transition from stern castle to waist with more steps down. As she is, the abrupt upward ark feels awkward and back heavy. As stated above, a forecastle is also required, even if it's only slightly higher. If your lazy, like me, the modern approach seems like less (re)construction. Of course this question depends heavily on your ship's employment. There are a host of questions, that if addressed first, would cause the answer here to fall much more easily in to place. Simply speaking, having a vision ahead of time is paramount and reference material is indispensable. Questions like: What is your vessel's role, I.e. merchant or man-of-war? For that matter what manner of war ship, privet, illegal (pirate) or national? Then consider, of what nationality, era and area of operation? Is there a story you're trying to tell, fantasy to portray or historic ship you seek to replicate? Answer these such questions for yourself and make a plan. If your adjusted vision doesn't match what you already have, fret not. The beauty of Lego is that it can be rebuilt with ease and at little cost.

I normally keep to the pirates forum, but have been branching out/lurking around lately looking for inspiration and ideas. This creation of yours really impresses me. You have some brilliant parts usage going on, like the window frames and roofs. Smaug is impressive, of course, but those eyes really stand out. Again clever; using teeeth for eyes. Thanks for sharing and inspiring.

Indeed she is fast, with no sails. In sailor speak of the time "fast" would more likely refer to being secured or immobilized, as in, fastened, than speedy. So fast she must be! I kid, I kid. Mighty she clearly is and I've nothing like, in her class. That sloop however, would fetch a fine price as a prize for my brace of cutters or privateer's brig. In any case I'm sure it would be a dull battle as our respective fleets seem to share the same affliction, a lack of canvas. I do like what you've done in such a short time. Weather or not it is by intent, you clearly show an understanding of the make up of a ship, superficially at the least, and that's what I find so fascinating about your work. One thing in particular bugs me about her though. That last gun port on the lower deck, seems partially blocked by the gallery. Was there no way around it or is it perhaps an accident? Thanks for sharing and may your challenge be well met. With this one in sight, I'll likely be heading for the horizon with all dispatch.

Seeking help with me redcoats Ok I'm with you so far, this is great; though, that's kind of the answer I didn't want. I came across that very image and one relating to it once I started wondering if royal artillery were my guys. My trouble, if I'm not mistaken, is their coats are a very dark blue. I'll make it happen in time if that's the case, but I will need to buy mini-figs or parts in that color. I already need a bunch for my naval officers, since I'm no longer satisfied with classic blue. What you say seems to give license to employ any period figures in working the great guns to keep the ranks up, which incidentally is a plot point I had hoped to support. One of my officers gets stuck commanding a battery in leu of a ship. I wonder if black, of which I have no shortage, would suffice for royal artillery? If the picture is accurate, it's much darker then navy blue. for the marines I'll likely go with blue and gold, just because it looks snappy. Now, looking around while I composed my reply I found this, which I saw before but forgot. In this image the colors appear very different. Which one is more accurate? If on the left I'm back to needing navy blue in bulk. If the right s more the thing I can reuse the old classic blue. http://www.britishempire.co.uk/forces/armyuniforms/britishartillery/ra1792.htm

Wow, a great start already, thanks!

Of course she looks, great, I'm sure no one doubted in that? It defiantly e to see something, not just complete, but finished after having been along for her development; keel up, so to speak. Thank you for that. Now, will I ever get the chance to meet her in person? Also I like the cloth sea, the edges look something like the loom of not too distant land. She appears to making her way out of a deep bay under all plane sail. Off to adventure for sure.

We're you planning on simulating chains? If you are unaware, those are the portion of the shrouds which connect from below the channels to the hull, anchoring the shrouds. If so, we're you also going to add gunnel flaps? I foresee a conflict where the two are concerned. I had a similar problem on my Ramcat, where the shrouds were both too close together and too close to the hull to allow for the flaps to open and close so I was forced to omit them. Historically they would usually be present as to keep the wash of the sea out and the sailors in, but are not completely necessary.

Knowing that amongst you all, there must be those possessed of in depth understanding with regards to uniforms, equipment and organizations of the British army from the turn of the 19th century, I have several questions or concerns about my own custom figure designs which I'm hoping someone will volunteer to clear up. I've tried, at length, by my usual methods of research and haven't come up with anything half so specific as I'd need. There seems to be plenty of information about a decade or more too late for my purposes, but I'm trying to create a certain environment as it bares upon the story I'm trying to tell through my MOCs, collectively. I've always tried to be helpful, forthcoming and polite in offering help, where my personal level of expertise will allow. Now I'm hoping it will be repaid in kind, with out biting me in the hind quarters. Please understand going into this, that if your only advice is to search the web, I've exhausted it to no avail. I've been at this again and again for years and never came to anything like the font of knowledge I'd require. Also advice to track down and purchase, at great cost, books no longer in print, is waisted. That being said, I'll pose the scenario and questions below. Of you've no interest might as well disregard at this point it gets pretty thick from here. The time frame for my tale is the turn of the 18th to the 19th century. The setting is a fictional island in an as of yet undetermined location. I have been between the Indian and the Mediterranean, but now with out considering the Caribbean and North America before. This would be a less than wealthy island town of some strategic value as a way point or port of call for merchants. Several times the island has changed hands from the Spanish to the Dutch to the English, who control it at the time of this narrative. Local pirates plague the area preying on the merchant traffic. The long harbor is defended by three batteries, two forts to either side of the bay, above the city and a smaller post nearer the channel. For a while I had the one fort under control of the navy with blue uniformed officers in command (they were all I had at the time) . The other fort was populated with generic Lego redcoats. Hypothetically at these forts, who would likely be working the guns? Red coats, royal artillery or perhaps some branch I've not considered? Would militia or the like factor in at all? Is it possible to provide some reference images, or links there to, by which I can design my custom figures? Further questions: I've noticed, with no determinable consistency, different British shoulders wearing different colors on the folds of their coats. Some have white, while others are green, blue or even yellow. One source suggested to me that it was a regimental thing, but I've found no codex for the system. Do certain colors denote a particular speciality or branch? In most depictions, for instance, cavalry seem to ware green or black. What then, would best apply to my ship board marines and what ever solders belong in my forts? Will the setting be a major determining factor in what sort of solders or regiments I use or make up? Would the cultural background eg. English, Irish, Welsh, Scottish of the solders/officers matter much to any of this? I could go on, but I think I've asked enough for now but know I don't ask lightly. From my own experience I can understand, that if you do know this much about the subject, it didn't come to you easily or cheaply. With that in mind I assure you all, that anyone who could assist me with useful, accurate information would be doing me a personal favor.

Proportionally speaking, she's just about right in terms of length and breadth. That's just how brigs tended to be. I love that she's a waterline model, with out pre-fab hulls sections. She seems to sit a little low in the water at the moment, but not by much. Already your's seems very similar to Mr. Townsend's Pinniacle, so you may find her a helpful reference. You may also find the method I've adopted on my latest projects, appealing as well. As to your bow sprit question; it depends. On most brigs the bow sprit is mounted up on the gun deck. Weather or not there is a focsle above the gun deck for the sprit to have to pass through is another question. The simpler way to handle these decisions, IMHO, is to pick a particular vessel or class of vessel for which you can find reference material. I might suggest the Cruizer class as one of the most prolific designs employed by the royal navy to date. They are well documented and you may find that US Brig Niagara is very similar to a Cruizer class. If you appreciation for the Aubrey/Maturin series is what inspires you (I'm very much a fan myself), you might want to look into Thomas Cochrane and his HMS Speedy, the real world inspiration for Jack Aubrey and HMS Sophie. at the moment, the seemingly high angle of your bowsprit would appear to be a result of your unusually large prow. If you shrink it down, perhaps below the forward bulwarks, you probably won't be able to fit a mini-fig figure head, but you can have a much shallower angle to the sprit. Mr. Townsend made it work, but if your reference is Niagara, you'll note by comparison, her bow is much more spartan and her bow sprit extends at a much lower angle, allowing her to cram on as many as four head sails. It may seem a long way off, but I feels as though I'd do you a service, based on my own experience, to ask what your plans for rigging are? With out a solid plan, you may find your self tearing up the hull to accommodate things later on. I hope I've been helpful as I always aim to be of service. Thanks for sharing and I'll look forward to an update.

Baw-hahaha! That guy with the beard's a real jerk, huh? Awesome.

Be careful likening Vikings to Pirates. Though we can all agree on similarities between the practices the key difference lies in the cultural heritage of Scandinavians. Vikings do what they do in defense of and/or as part of their culture, whilst pirates (even the more desperate modern kind) do what they do for profit and against the social conventions of even their own society. That being said, why not Zoidberg, indeed? You all still have Zoidberg.

To my eye it seems that there are two distinct problems with your shrouds which are causing your troubles. Firstly the tension of your shrouds, the way you have them attached is static. They don't need to be drum tight, but being able to pull them taught makes a world of difference in keeping them from deflecting. This is where some manner of block and tackle comes in, like dead or bully's eyes. I don't think yours is too big for 4624 dead eyes and they might look pretty slick in white, if you find your self tempted. The other issue is the rat lines them selves. In practical application they are not tied directly to the shrouds them selves. Instead the individual lines are bent ot spliced into two loops at either end and then bound to the shroud through those loops by a smaller bit of cordage. On that scale all that splicing and bending seems as though it would be a real pain but some reasonable facsimile would seem to serve your needs. Perhaps try gluing them in place and then lashing around that joint. Check out this image for reference. Read over the post even to for a deeper understanding. http://www.woodenboatfittings.com.au/public/ratlines.jpg http://forum.woodenboat.com/showthread.php?2712-Ratline-Rigging All that aside now I have to say, I've developed a real fondness for this ship of yours. There is just something striking about her and feel as though such a fair lady deserves a little better than the normal treatment above the bulwarks. You have a great and well established hull technique and I'd like to invite you to take the step to the next level and really challenge yourself on this rig to do her proper justice. I know quite well how tedious and boredom string rigging can be, however, it's not only worth it in the end, but I find that simulating the real thing and short cutting to "what looks good" takes about the same amount of effort. The debacle that was Snakes rigging convinced me to start looking for better solutions than what I concocted in my own mind and what I discovered worked best was the real thing. You'll do with her as you please, and your own agenda will be served, no doubt. I do implore you, though, to consider my suggestion. I'm always amiable to help out or advise if I can. Thanks for sharing this build with us so far. It's been fascinating and amusing. I can't wait to see her under sail. P.S. thanks for the break down of the chasers. I started messing around with it and came up with two adaptations you may like and will share in the future.

Indeed she is to narrow, and her widest part is a bit too far forward. It'd be a shame to loose her out right though, as she seems to be shaping up nice if only in profile. My advice to you is much the same as it is to everyone: get her off those prefabs and brick build the entirety of her hull. Keep the same profile, but widen her appropriately.

As usual, Wikipedia proves insufficient to fairly represent the myriad instances, idioms and variations these terms can encompass. The short version: Size doesn't matter as theses terms only describe the sail plan, though there is a certain convention on size thresholds for the given rigs. Brig- is a two masted vessel, square rigged on both masts while sporting a large gaff main sail. This main sail may or may not be paired with a square main sail as well. Brigantine- is a two masted vessel square rigged on the formast and for-and-aft rigged on main. Barquentine- is a three (or more) masted vessel carrying square sails on only the formast and gaff sails on rest aft-ward. Now the long version: Go back more than a hundred years and you didn't have large corporations innovating within commerce driven industries. Technology evolved, not as a matter of market demand but through practice and long use. No where does this seem more prevalent than in the maritime culture, where generations upon generations through the centuries would have all used essentially similar equipment to ply their trade. Granted; grand spanish treasure galleons seem a far cry from spritly Baltimore clippers, but a sailor native to one would not be long confused, if suddenly displaced to the deck of the other. These terms developed over time, not as stead fast rules in a book of standards, but as a means to distinguish one thing from another. Because sailors were not typically a well educated lot, there's was an oral tradition. To say for sure that a given term means this and only this is naive. The determination depends entirely on the time and place where in the thing is observed, and who the observer is for that matter. One of my favorite examples of how such nautical terms change over time is the pinnace. The replica vessel Kalmar Nykel is a reproduction of a 17th century ship, which ferried passengers from Sweden to the new world. In her time she was called a pinnace and could be describes as essentially similar in shape and function to a galleon, but significantly smaller. By the 19th century such ships fell out of use and somewhere along the way the term pinnace came to refer to open boats with a lug sail and oars; often a ship's boat. It is a common misconception that the term Brig came about from lazy sailors shortening the term Brigantine. The "antine" was actually added-on to distinguish later adaptations to the Brig sail plan. From our modern perspective, driving around in automobiles and carrying computers in our pockets, it's easy to think of these contraptions of sticks, bed sheets and clothes lines as simple and all-of-a-kind. Sailing, in all it's myriad forms through out history has been a complex science developed and explored through trial-and-error. The plethora of sails, spars and ropes any one vessel may carry is entirely at the digression of her master who will make his adjustments according to his idiom. An interesting experience: Whilst touring the deck of Amistad I inadvertently gave offense to one of her crew when I asked which vessel, her or Pride of Baltimore II, used a more historically accurate method for a particular function. Offended, but ever patient with the ignorant masses, the young man offered me an explanation that just stuck with me. It went something like this: "Every ship is different. Along the way you just figure things out. If what you do, to solve a problem, works then you stick with it and that's what you wind up doing. I've sailed on a few schooners now and no two do things exactly the same way and really you don't get more historic than that." What he meant with that last part was to relate how sailors in the past were on their own, no different than those on replicas now, and he was right.There was no rule book for how things were done, no warranties to worry about voiding. They stuck with what worked even if they were the only ship in the world which did it that way. An excersice: Ignoring the size, shape or function of a hypothetical hull, but agreeing that it is a wooden sailing vessel, let's stick two masts in her and play around with our options. If we hang square sails on both masts and add a large gaff headed sail to rear most mast we have a "brig". If we take the square sails off that rear most mast, leaving the gaff, and adding a stay sail in the gap between masts she becomes a "brigantine". Change out that stay sail for another gaff sail, this one hanging from the formast backwards, and now she a "hermaphrodite brig". Take the square main course off the formast leaving only top sails and she become a "topsail schooner." Now go and shrink that rear most mast and shove it farther back and you have a "ketch". That was fun, but simplistic. Along the way we ignored such significant considerations as number of head sails, hard or soft footed gaff sails or the inclusion or exclusion of a snow. The point is that ships are complex, multifaceted machines which can not often be so rigidly classified by any one element of their constitution. I'll be the first to tell you, that a simple google search can do wonders to educate, but you must be clever and diligent. The Internet is full of misinformation. Information is the most valuable commodity in the world, and even if no one is charging for it, you will still need to work for the good stuff. There is no website where you can go and just learn about ships. It just not that simple. Look at the litany I've written in response to such a seemingly anxious question, and though some of it may seem only indirectly related it will all contribute to a greater understanding of the thing as a whole. I'm not a rich man to be paying for information in books, nor have I the fortune to be sea born learning ship board. I've educated my self, thus far, primarily through the Internet, but the information I absorbed didn't really click until I started applying it and going back over it with specific questions. Looking for solutions with my models or looking up terms from nautical fiction is what helped me get below the surface to good quality information. Be careful of your sources though. Look at more than what seems the simple answer and don't assume repetition means validation.

It's a grim duty I take upon myself to report the loss of another iconic tall ship. The brig Unicorn of Roots, Curse of the Black Perl, Deadman's Chest and At Worlds End fame sank yesterday. The exact cause is unknown but fortunately all 10 of her crew escaped to safety. Though it's not exactly Lego related I'm sure many here will regret her loss. http://www.vesselfinder.com/news/2119-Pirates-of-the-Caribbean-ship-the-Brig-Unicorn-sinks-off-St-Lucia http://gcaptain.com/pirates-of-the-caribbean-tall-ship-sinks-off-st-lucia/ Take note, this was not Lady Washington/Interceptor. As far as I know she's still floating and doing fine.

Trust me, I feel your pain when to comes to budget. I see what you mean about awkward. To my eye it's because she inadvertently a polacca; her masts are all one piece. It would be less noticeable with spars and sails, but the lack of off-set between the sections of masts throws it off. I've been checking out her chase guns and wondering if I could see a break down? They look pretty neat, and I may want to borrow the design. I hate to see a grate ship like her condemned to the knakers yard. Perhaps you could give Farore's Wind a new paint job and keep both around?

I didn't really think you'd go in for tape but to see what I mean about brick built flaps grab any of my LFX files and do a bit of deconstruction. If you manage to pull it off, it'll give you a really slick, smooth looking side and open up a lot of color options, even more light blue. :) http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=433700