kurigan

Should I? I've not yet because, for one, I've been rationing my limited collection of bricks for my own means. I've also, more importantly, figured that those most interested in my particular brand, would tend to be the least in need of my instruction. Perhaps I'm wrong, and correct me if I am, but it always appeared to me that those on the historical side of the conceptual divide tend to figure things out for them selves from their own reference material. Conversely those more on the fantastic end of the spectrum shy away from what they perceive as too much work and material investment on a MOC which may not even be "permanent". I've thought about it several times, but always came around to talking my self out of it. If I thought it'd be useful and appreciated I'd find the time and materials.

Oh yeah, that looks better! I didn't even notice the built-in bellows earlier. Nice touch!

Super busy weekend for me but I’m making sure I take a moment to comment on this one for two reasons. Firstly I was just wondering the other day what ever happened to your Brig-Sloop project which seemed to be going so well and this one shows up . I also find it to be a rather stand-out build. I know I’m a little late to the festivities but I’m gonna just go on all the same, sorry if I cover old ground. It’s either compose or catch-up before I crash: Though she may be a bit short bow to stern everything here is very well executed and detail inclusive. The rig over all is very well proportioned to her size as well. The clothe sails, complete with seams and reef points are indeed impressive. I like the custom pennant and ensign as well. It’s a bit hard to tell from the images available but did you used “curved hull” method or just hinges. Either way she very shapely. I like the use of hinges on the bottom to simulate counter. I would certainly say, as a lesson, she was a success as well; you’re closer to that point where it looks like a ship before it looks like a Lego ship. Your efforts in rigging have not gone unnoticed. One thing that bugs though: the mainsail spars (gaff and boom) You have stand-ins for the halyards and topping lifts yet the spars are still connected with technic connectors. I can’t say it’s wrong or bad. I will say, if you went that far to include those lines, functional or not, you could stream line things a bit further. For one making a yoke and stringing halyards is actually very easy, so you could just hang the sail the real-world way. Barring that I’d suggest reorienting your technic connector something like the image below. You see there I used a technic axle hung from 1 X 2 lift arms to suggest at something like a snow mast, a common setup for ships of the 18th-19th centuries where square and gaff sails share the same mast. This way the spar doesn’t have that strange bend in it just before it meets the mast. I didn’t come up with this, I just couldn’t remember who did so I could reference their MOC. Instead I just mocked it up in LDD real quick . Either way it’s a good idea. Thanks for sharing her. Just to chime in on the one thing I caught; Kolonialbeamter seems to have the right of it. "Sloop" depends on whether you referring in maritime terms to her rig, or as in this case to her RN rating.

The term you’re looking for is “counter” and though I like seeing it though you might have a bit much of it. Otherwise she seems very well proportioned. I understand how difficult a low freeboard can be to simulate and keep it looking good. You’ve done a good job of it here though. It looks as though there should be channels for the mizzen mast like the forward two since they are all about the same size. I don’t know about the color on Revenant but here it fits great. This is much more of a late period style ship and we often think of ships in that time being less flash. We’ve been seeing a lot of this style (or something like it) lately. In the digital environment is defiantly looks slick but I really do wonder about its real world viability. I too thought my LDD designs were feasible until I tried to build them. I would be more than curious to see one of these actually built.

Thanks for the detail images. Very telling indeed. I think you may have given yourself a bit of an extra headache. Bumblebee’s deck floats. The deck and sides are separate constructions. Pop either end apart and it’ll slide out. You seem to have attached everything fore and aft. I imagine that was a bit of a bare to fit. Though I can’t complain about the end result. I tried hinge pieces like that, even tried tighter grabbing knock-offs but everything just kept popping apart. Somehow 4 clips, staggered 2 to either side, held stronger. I wouldn’t be too worried about the short main sail, I just assumed it was left that way on purpose. This way the man at the tiller doesn’t have to worry about banging his head on the boom.

Oh that's clever! Using the curved slopes for staves and that guy hewing a log. Historic detail always tickles me and this is no exception. thanks for sharing this.

Ha-ha, awesome! Three major points here, the ship, the wave and the monster: Love how the monster’s tentacles wrap around the hull. Very articulate and convincing. Technic connectors for suckers is clever too. The wave is just a whole creation on its own. The clear-trans really conveys “foamy” and “cold”. The whole thing, shape and color, is fantastic (am I mistaken or their gray under the clear?) I can’t imagine pulling off something like that myself. The ship: I agree, the application of several techniques and varying bricks worked out just excellent. I can get pretty excitable over technique and this has me intrigued. Would you be so kind as to show us some WIP shots or perhaps just an image of her underside? She really does look like a Tea Clipper aside from a lack of masts. The narrow drawn out bow, the low freeboard and flat sheer, suggest a late 19th or early 20th century vessel. Only that raised stern gallery seems, a bit out of place perhaps. I do like the SNOT windows there though. It’s going to take several more times looking her over to grasp all the little details. Had to squint to figure it out but I like that anchor made with mini-fig hands. All in all, I love what you have here. You’ve definitely made my personal list of interesting builders. I’d love to see more of this technique and hope you intend to peruse developing if even further. Thanks for sharing! P.S. come to think on it, that size and shape hull would make a great schooner.

Why do I like this as much as I do? I don’t know, but I do. You’ve just got something right here and it’s good. Your character might find a lateen sail easier to handle that a square. Thanks for sharing!

Haha, love it! For once someone admits their work may not the best ever. No claims of swords that magically cut other swords . You’ve actually got an appropriate size and shape hearth for blade making there too (lil experience to draw on in that realm). For realism, yeah the chimney could be further back instead of centered and reduce the amount of overhang, but it works fine. The grind stone is indeed brilliant. I hope he's not re-heated that blade while still furnished, besides i don't see any fire . (joking around) You should add a light and a pile or trans-red pieces to make a fire . Flashlights have worked well for me in the past. Thanks for sharing!

Hey! Thanks for the mention. Glad to see I had an effect; that I could inspire. Sounds, for a moment there, that you’re down on Gibbon for being less refined than Bumblebee, but I don’t find that particularly valid. Yes certain parts of her are simplified over my own, but others seem to have gone a step farther than I did. For one thing you actually finished yours . You also bothered with a tiled deck which looks scads better and it appears your rudder an tiller actually function while mine are just props. I would love to see some detail shots; the underside and stern perhaps? I feel you on the color scheme but I think it works. Heck, mine only has the one pretty side for a lack colorful tiles. I like how you made square spars work with what appear to be 4081. They remind me of the metal fittings used on late 19th and 20th century ships. Thanks for sharing her and taking my challenge favorably. What are you gonna do next?

Wow. Very nice ship. Clean and simple; almost understated. Normally not much a fan of the style myself, but I like this. Great job, espically with the quater galleries. One thought: the rear most gun ports might look better if ther could rise with the hulls curvature. Dono what the under structre is like though so I've no idea how difficult it would be for you to change it. Thanks for sharing her.

Fair enough!

There ya are, cully.

Well every time this comes up and I say something about it I get scolded and directed to an old argument which went nowhere and solved nothing, so forgive me if I’m a bit sour at the double standard. I’ll not make any bigger a deal of that, but I do want to say my piece/make my point. The issue with the scaling of Lego cannons is as simple as this. Mini-figs are ill proportioned compared to real human adults. Their proportions are more akin to that of a human baby. Because of this a modeler endeavoring to rescale any real world object to work in a mini figure populated environment must decide for themselves if they consider mini-figs to be either really wide or extremely short. The cannons suffer the same condition. In fact, to say that “the scale is wrong” is an over simplification, the trouble is actually with their specific proportions. As with the figures they are either really short or very wide. From my perspective it’s not so much a matter of external dimensions as it is bore size. The projectile that thing must fire compared to a mini-fig is gigantic. It’d weigh far more than any projectile launched from a wooden sailing platform, ever. Then consider the laughably thin walls which are expected to hold back the charge necessary to move such a weighty shot. The whole thing just seems… silly. On my, none-too-impressive, land based MOCs I do use the Lego cannon since they are available from childhood and a such a large piece of artillery can be justified on solid ground. What I do to make them more convincing to me is to leave a few round bricks in the barrel to make those side wall look more realistic (like this). I don’t think I it looks too terrible, and it might amount to a helpful suggestion in a case such as this. Again, only where realism in concerned, keep in mind how many men it takes to work a gun. Even something like a small 9 pounder is a crew of six standing with another crew of six to either side scrambling to operate their own 1,000lb piece of artillery. The bigger the gun the more space between which should be provide. Unfortunately that can really add up in terms of up-scaling to fit it all in. All this is exactly why “mini-fig illusion scale” was created in the first place. So, Capt RooR, do as you will with your own MOC. Hopefully you understand a little better where suggestions about gun scale and placement come from.

Though I’m not expert on building Lego stern galleries, actually I too have shied away thus far, I can recognize the design elements as that pertain to the real-world thing. To that effect I first off, agree with Cousarmy0001 about continuing the black. I also suggest making the roof slopes black as well. Typically what we see isn’t so much a yellow/gold/white wash but the window frames and accents painted color over black. Cases in point: https://lh3.googleus...ter gallery.png https://upload.wikim...prise-stern.jpg http://hms-trincomal...s/ginger_lg.jpg http://www.bestripvo...12/Fragata3.jpg

LOL, he's awesome! Your figures never fail to impress. The layering (coat over clothes) is just fantastic and I particularly like the fold-over boots. Thanks for sharing.

When i actually do, I most certainly will. At the moment there is a huge mess of bricks to be sorted and stowed standing in the way of any further progress.

First off, your work: I like what you have here already! I won’t say it’s perfect but it’s very well done all the same. Though there are some gaps in her construction I can tell that’s just limitation of the scale. Actually what you’ve done to compensate looks pretty good. Your rig is rather simple but it works. All the parts are there and in the correct form. I don’t wish to presume upon you level of interest or knowledge of historic sailing but what you have is essentially a lug sail and that is rather appropriate for this size of vessel. Does that tiller actually work? It’s nice to see that level of working detail even if it’s as simple as a leaver like that. Might be a bit high for the poor min-fig crew though. The throw back from a rogue wave could knock someone clean out On the other point; are there other styles/techniques? Oh boy, are you in for a treat!? Indeed there are several builders whose work you may find helpful. I’ll link a few of key builder’s works (which I can remember off the top of my head) but you should make your way down to the MOC forum once in a while. Though it doesn’t move quite as fast as BotBS, there is always something popping up. The MOC index is great but that only for completed works. Check it out too but keep in mind it takes some builders a very long time to get their grander works to that point and you learn a lot more form following the progress as they go. Henrik Hoexbroe: Cutty Shark Flickr Anders T.: Danish Navy Brig MOCpages Sly Owl: Pimp your IMTP Ship (You’ll have to scroll down to find it.) Kabel: Carrack matt22hew: Gauntlet Mr.Townsend: Pinnacle Matterhorn Dread Pirate Wesley (DPW): Pickle Persephone Maydayartist: Revenge And of course, bonny-ol-me: Most recently and perhaps pertinent Bumblebee The rest of the fleet Photobucket The creations I’ve picked out are each meant to represent a different style in building from those mentioned. It’s by no means a complete list, I’m sure. Some of them aren’t even that different, but sometimes application of just a single different bricks makes a world of difference. Once again I’m playing historian but not to step on any one’s toes or play favorites. If anyone can think of anyone I’ve left out unfairly, chime in. I’m starting to keep a list, so I’ll add them too that as well. Now Legostone, I’ve sucked up a huge portion of your thread and for that I do apologize. I do tend to get a little excited, but only when I am so impressed. I do admit to a bit of opportunism though, but only for a greater good. To that effect I hope I can assume upon your good graces. Thanks for sharing her and keep building. You’ve got a great start here.

Watch your step everyone! I've dropped my jaw. Seriously, this is brilliant. So many clever details, I could fill a page pointing them all out. Indeed the road paid off, but the use of corner tiles and wheels as well as the placing of brick-bricks are clever as well. At first glance I thought the road was 30027s. I wonder if they would work the same as those round tiles; might save a bit of stress if they did. You havn't shown us much of the house though. May we see a reverse angle?

Wow, thanks for that. Haven’t been on the front page in a long time. Might help if finished things more often. If I thought she’d be front page material I might have, well… finished her . Really though, thanks for the support all! Mr Townsend: Well that’s exactly how I got started on this whole rigging kick. I too started out with a “just make it look right” attitude. Because of that I really struggled on my early works, like Snake. When I was trying to figure out solutions to make things more stable, something sparked in my head. I got the idea that maybe the best way was the “right” way. I started brainstorming ways to emulate the real thing in Lego and lo-and behold it worked. It also got me away from letting the pre-fab parts define the size and scale of my creations, like with Hawk (my first experiment with deadeyes).The surprising thing is how simple and easy it is to do. I see the complicated and intricate techniques being emulated with apparent ease and it boggles my mind why other builders shy away from string rigging as if it’s going to be too much. I think the thing most people don’t figure on is that you really don’t have to spend a lot of time making precise measurements as the block-and-tackle are going to make up the difference at most points around the ship. I just make a quick jig with bricks on a baseplate to tie lines around, which need to be the same length. I keep the knots simple too. This one is basically all over-hand and square knots and cow hitches. When do we get to see a rigged Matterhorn ready for sea? I know you’ve done quite a bit of work in the field yourself and I’d dearly love to see it all pay off.

Surprised I missed this when it was new, wonder you didn't make it a new thread. I'm floored by the news though. All I can think of is Red Forman (That 70's Show) "you poor pink bastard..."

That's all really, very impressive. Some clever design work, to be sure. I do wonder though about stability. For instance; will that extra joint make the arms any more difficult to change then they already are?

TY Well for one there is a difference between taking up tolerance, which is harmless, and actually placing the bricks under tension. Take a bunch of 1X2 bricks and make a long staggered wall, say three bricks high. Wiggle both ends back and forth in your hands and you'll see how much flex there actually is. Add in rounded bricks and it becomes even more flexible with no risk of damage. On the other hand, what I do isn't that. In both styles you'll find the bricks under quite a bit of tension. I referenced above where Bumblebee kept springing apart while I was trying to get her geometry just right. Now that does run the risk of the bricks loosing elasticity and holding their new bent shape in a few years, but then all bricks left out will lose elasticity as the chemical compounds slowly degrade. The difference is whether or not they freeze in a useful shape or distort. I personally don't care as these are intended to be permanent displays. If they change at all it will only be in to newer versions of the same thing. If I were intending to tear them down to recycle the bricks later, some of that might be a concern. These will stay together at least until I’m dead and by then the bricks being already old will likely have degraded anyway (barring the unforeseen tragedy of course). I'm also not using new, prime bricks. My bricks from childhood are still "enshrined" in those old "suit cases" on a shelf. The entirety of the contributing elements of my fleet come from used lots and are marginally unsellable cast-offs at that. If you ever get the chance to see them in person I’ll let you pick one up so you can see all the hidden, sunburns, UV damage, petrified stickers, scratches chips cracks and tooth marks hidden beneath. Some purists will weep for the bricks I “destroy” but the same people would likely have rejected the lion’s share of what I build with as too far gone. So fret not as in a way I’m giving these bricks another chance. Bumblebee and all my ships are remarkably stable. I move them around the room all the time without incident. I'd "swoosh" then save that when I do all crew and the guns slide around the smooth decks and have to be put back . Bumblebee doesn't yet have a permanent birth so she's taken the grand tour of my office/den in the last couple of weeks just to try and keep her out of harm’s way. Re: the image above, I carry her around by her top mast when I do move her. Once completely assembled they all become reliably stable and playable. You see though the nature of my “play" is a bit more mundane than in my childhood (tearing bits off to make shot holes and knocking masts and rigging down ), my ships are intended to be interacted with. I put so much effort into replicating a "working rig" just so that you can work it. If the hull was apt to explode every time you touched it, all that would be for naught. A final thought on the subject would be the intention behind the build. Most MOCs you find are meant to be “Lego ships”. Some of them of a higher or more advanced caliber, other even including a touch of historic/real world accuracy. There’s nothing wrong with this as a concept, mind you, it’s a valid and respectable approach. Mine is something almost entirely different. I’m trying to use Lego to build a model of a ship as opposed to a Lego style facsimile of one. Though I’ve seen some remarkable applications to the contrary (CGH, Admiral Croissant, Sebus, etc.), the conventional method of “stacking bricks” simply falls short. If in the end it still look like Lego, then it doesn’t look like a ship, not where my intentions are concerned. So we find that for most, nothing of what I’ve been doing is the right approach, nor is it worth the effort. For me though there is no going back. The argument is essentially similar to “Classic Space” vs “Neo Classic”. To some, like me, studless is the pinnacle of Lego design, to others it ruins the mystique. To each his own, there is no right answer, but you don’t see the same arguments over modular building’s do you? That front seems united on studlessness and realism. (I know, it’s like I just scratched a record in your mind ). Anyway, I’m only so verbose out of enthusiasm, not irritation. Thanks for bringing it up so I could climb on my lil’ soap box for a minute and hear myself talk, err.. type. Feel welcomed to rebuttal or counter point, it’s all for fun in the end.

Great! Then we all agree and we can all be friends again back to the ship: Franco Clarke/Plaid Beard/Captain Braunsfeld: Thank you, thank you. Cb4: Took a moment to conjure up what you were describing in my mind but I think I have it. Basically a curved castle wall skinned in tiles. It might work, but it might also require an increase in scale. It’d probably wind up being something morel like my larger ships but would be an interesting approach to having different “paint” colors inside and out.

I really like the use of those printed window frames to add detail. The roof technique is interesting as well. Those poor guys have to sleep awfully close together. I think sailors get more personal space . How about some bunk beds instead?