Upcoming Classic Space Reboot?

[vampyre78]

Following on from the aliens being added in, it wouldn't be too far fetched to start bridging the older space themes. With an alien invasion of some sort, the 'classic' space researchers are under threat. The space police can't keep up, and eventually secure the help of the Blacktron forces to help defend. This lets us have a greatest hits sort of space run. A classic style space supply/research base. A large Blacktron ship, several smaller Space Police ships. Alien/Bad Guy faction could give a nod back to various alien races already included in Lego's history.

[DPrime]

Wrong message? By not encouraging children to fight against other people? I think they would argue that sowing seeds of conflict against made-up aliens is the lesser of 2 evils, if we assume that there really must be conflict to sell the sets.

Totally. "Different=bad" is definitely not the message I want to send to my kids.

There doesn't have to be a "lesser of two evils," here. Why weren't there any alien police officers in Space Police III? Problem easily solved.

[Venkefedo]

...that's why I favor a mix! Like I said earlier, maybe a 'good' faction of aliens can look to CS for protection, or simply be allies or integrated into CS, and the enemies can be a mix of aliens & humans as well (I don't think SPIII had any human crooks either, did it?)

[Ardelon]

I also think an theme featuring a mix of humans and aliens as good guys and bad guy would be great (or at least good guys, just to show they can be). I wonder why such a theme didnt appear already, it seems like such a no-brainer. Does TLG think kids will be confused about the factions not being separated by race/species?

Totally. "Different=bad" is definitely not the message I want to send to my kids.

This.

...that's why I favor a mix! Like I said earlier, maybe a 'good' faction of aliens can look to CS for protection, or simply be allies or integrated into CS, and the enemies can be a mix of aliens & humans as well (I don't think SPIII had any human crooks either, did it?)

Nope, no human crooks... I bet any aliens watching us and wondering whether to make contact arent too happy with TLG...

[SMC]

A little idea I had for a topic

support classic space there

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=98013

and give me feedback on the idea

thanks

Edited July 21, 2014 by SMC

[fossil1999]

I was born in the late 90's, and I do not really "get" classic space.

In my personal opinion, the classic space sets look sort of "Cute" and retro by todays standards.

I feel that most of the people who support the return of classic space may be adults who remember the sets from their childhood and have been raised in a way to like the overall theme of classic space: Exploration, Not Conflict.

I think that for classic space to succeed in today's youth culture, the construction of the sets has to be updated significantly. We can still keep the emphasis on exploration, which, if balanced with conflict and an update to the construction style of the sets, I think might succeed. Some of you might know Star Trek. If so, you will remember that it balanced exploration with conflict (Example, in the course of their explorations, they encounter a hostile species that brings the conflict into equation. Most of the times, the conflict is resolved peacefully by the end of the episode).

I hope you understand, I was born long after the discontunuation of the Classic space themes, and have been raised in the 3rd millennium, with its culture that includes G.I Joe toys, Superhero movies, generally Si-Fi movies with lots of action, and more. In this century, conflict is a part of today's youth culture.

Also, remember Lego tests its themes by bringing groups of kids into a room and watching which themes they play with the most. Those are the themes that go to the store shelfs. If today's kids were more interested in Si-Fi exploration, those would be the themes Lego would be focusing on. We need to change our culture.

I hope my post was not too long.

Edit:Typo and a pargraph.

Edited July 21, 2014 by fossil1999

[SMC]

^ don't disagree but adding classic logos and elements to Galaxy Squad would not have changed its appeal to kids but would have made it much more appealing to afol

I think a lot of fans wanted an updated reboot of classic space like we have already seen this year in the only 2 space sets we have got

Edited July 21, 2014 by SMC

[LegoFjotten]

Did you guys see this one?

https://ideas.lego.com/projects/68687

[ummester]

Another one

I put this one up not too long back.

https://ideas.lego.com/projects/72716

It's becoming a theme on Ideas. TLG will probably get the hint and make some sets. The Exo suit is probably a test case for sales :D

Re the discussion - I don't think there should be factions (like Aliens, or bad guys or anything) if Classic Space is rebooted. I don't even think the minifigs should have sexes - they should just be the classic smiley faces, humanoid astronauts in red and white with all story telling elements to be supplied by the child building.

In my mind, the true power of CS was that it was a blank slate - it fed the imagination of builder/child playing in a way that no other LEGO Sci FI themed lines have done.

Edited August 5, 2014 by ummester

[SMC]

Did you guys see this one?

https://ideas.lego.com/projects/68687

That is really nice, I would buy one first day

I would really like to see PeterReid add another idea on ideas

Edited August 5, 2014 by SMC

[m0dulo]

I was born in the late 90's, and I do not really "get" classic space.

In my personal opinion, the classic space sets look sort of "Cute" and retro by todays standards.

I feel that most of the people who support the return of classic space may be adults who remember the sets from their childhood and have been raised in a way to like the overall theme of classic space: Exploration, Not Conflict.

(...)

I hope you understand, I was born long after the discontunuation of the Classic space themes, and have been raised in the 3rd millennium, with its culture that includes G.I Joe toys, Superhero movies, generally Si-Fi movies with lots of action, and more. In this century, conflict is a part of today's youth culture.

I'm not speaking for anyone else, but I think conflict has always been a part of everyone's culture. I just got off the phone with someone in their late 60's that was into everything you mentioned. GI Joe is 50 years old this year, after all. Now that I think about it, everything we talked about was conflict-related on some level.

I think it is important for all of us to not romanticize "space exploration" from that time. It wasn't really about the altruistic benefits of science and exploration by and for mankind — it was the Space Race during the Cold War. The primary reason humans went into space was because two opposing superpowers with big military budgets were scared one was going to gain significant advantages over the other. As a kid during that time, it seemed we were always in direct competition with and comparing ourselves to them. Space Race + Cold War + USA Bicentennial (1976) = very important time to be smart, strong, and patriotic.

Context is everything. If someone wasn't there, didn't experience it, wasn't taught it, or wasn't reminded about it, they wouldn't see any conflict among a classic space scene with astronauts all wearing suits and helmets in neat colors. (They definitely weren't an international group putting aside their differences to collaborate and share for a common goal for the benefit of everyone on Earth! That would be crazy talk. It was controversial when a non-American rode on the Space Shuttle for the first time.) Every friend that had a set would say red were USSR (cosmonauts like a bad word, not astronauts), and the USA and USSR were competing to be the first at something or at war. There is a chart in the Space Race article that illustrates the competition between both superpowers. (Note their use of blue and red to distinguish USA and USSR)

I am implying nothing about LEGO in any way. This is all IMHO and about human beings creating their own stories on their own. Give them two pet rocks and they'd probably come up with something similar. It is just human nature. But I want to create my own stories. Space insects? Huh? Just give us spaceships and we will work out the rest. ;)

Re the discussion - I don't think there should be factions (like Aliens, or bad guys or anything) if Classic Space is rebooted. I don't even think the minifigs should have sexes - they should just be the classic smiley faces, humanoid astronauts in red and white with all story telling elements to be supplied by the child building.

In my mind, the true power of CS was that it was a blank slate - it fed the imagination of builder/child playing in a way that no other LEGO Sci FI themed lines have done.

I agree completely.

Edited August 5, 2014 by m0dulo

[Ardelon]

Re the discussion - I don't think there should be factions (like Aliens, or bad guys or anything) if Classic Space is rebooted. I don't even think the minifigs should have sexes - they should just be the classic smiley faces, humanoid astronauts in red and white with all story telling elements to be supplied by the child building.

In my mind, the true power of CS was that it was a blank slate - it fed the imagination of builder/child playing in a way that no other LEGO Sci FI themed lines have done.

But this would probably ensure failure of the line. It would just be so boring compared to what TLG is offering these days - no factions to root for or try to overcome, no unique characters to identify with, no clear conflict to grab the kids attention... Not saying the classic formula was bad, I would love a bigger emphasis on exploration rather than conflict. But I say the onus should be on us to MOC/MOD the stuff we dont like, rather than on TLG or the kids to make or get stuff that suits us rather than the target audience. Much better for TLG to release a theme they know that works for kids today, and AFOLs can switch the faces or mod whatever they want. So long as we get builds in the right colors, as well as new parts and minifigs with the CS print.

Edited August 5, 2014 by Ardelon

[m0dulo]

Much better for TLG to release a theme they know that works for kids today, and AFOLs can switch the faces or mod whatever they want. So long as we get builds in the right colors, as well as new parts and minifigs with the CS print.

I agree with this, too. My opinions above were about me and don't reflect what is probably best for LEGO's markets.

What kept me from buying any of the cool Galaxy Squad sets and other themes is the inclusion of the enemies that I don't like, don't want, and don't have parts I can use for something else because of color or weird shapes. I don't know how successful this would be, but it would be cool if they created a classic space universe with different factions, all separate, allowing people to build their own scenarios. Like in a a Sci-Fi TV show, you get your spaceship, you explore worlds, you pick your battles, and it can be a different story every time. Like ugly aliens and robots? Get those sets. Don't like insects? Don't get those. Want to explore a tropical planet? Buy that planet set. But packaging a cool $25 mech made from cool LEGO parts with a $15 day-glo insect thing I don't like means I don't buy anything. Maybe kids do, but it sounds like that whole line didn't do so well.

Space. Universe. Big. Modular. Options.

Edited August 5, 2014 by m0dulo

[Faefrost]

But this would probably ensure failure of the line. It would just be so boring compared to what TLG is offering these days - no factions to root for or try to overcome, no unique characters to identify with, no clear conflict to grab the kids attention... Not saying the classic formula was bad, I would love a bigger emphasis on exploration rather than conflict. But I say the onus should be on us to MOC/MOD the stuff we dont like, rather than on TLG or the kids to make or get stuff that suits us rather than the target audience. Much better for TLG to release a theme they know that works for kids today, and AFOLs can switch the faces or mod whatever they want. So long as we get builds in the right colors, as well as new parts and minifigs with the CS print.

Exactly. Nostalgia is great, to a point. You want some of the feel of the old stuff. But presented in an evolved, updated way that reflects that it isn't 1982. Set 70816 Benny's SSS was near perfect for this. Any return to classic space themes would also still require including much of what came after. Distinct detailed Minifigs with expressive faces. New parts and build techniques. Stickers ( remember we hate em, kids love em). Adversarial conflict of some sort. Or at a minimum competion or differing factions.

And if they do dip into the well of classic or older space themes one modern advantage is they no longer have many of the restrictions they once had. As we saw with GS and Chima and Ninjago, color pallets can now be dialed in to not simply be theme wide, but to be character or faction specific within the same production cycle. In the old days classic space was blue and grey because they made a ton of blue and grey parts for the line and thus had to use them. These days they can do shorter runs of more colors per set. So a modern Lego Space theme could have a nice blue and grey cruiser. An Mtrons type ground vehicle. A Blacktron raider ship to fight, etc.

[danth]

Stickers ( remember we hate em, kids love em).

Really? You think if kids were given the choice between printed pieces and stickers, kids would choose stickers? Do you have any evidence of this?

And if they do dip into the well of classic or older space themes one modern advantage is they no longer have many of the restrictions they once had. As we saw with GS and Chima and Ninjago, color pallets can now be dialed in to not simply be theme wide, but to be character or faction specific within the same production cycle. In the old days classic space was blue and grey because they made a ton of blue and grey parts for the line and thus had to use them. These days they can do shorter runs of more colors per set. So a modern Lego Space theme could have a nice blue and grey cruiser. An Mtrons type ground vehicle. A Blacktron raider ship to fight, etc.

That would be amazing!

Edited August 6, 2014 by danth

[ummester]

Exactly. Nostalgia is great, to a point. You want some of the feel of the old stuff. But presented in an evolved, updated way that reflects that it isn't 1982. Set 70816 Benny's SSS was near perfect for this. Any return to classic space themes would also still require including much of what came after. Distinct detailed Minifigs with expressive faces. New parts and build techniques. Stickers ( remember we hate em, kids love em). Adversarial conflict of some sort. Or at a minimum competion or differing factions.

Some is AFOL nostalgia, I agree but some is a concern that children don't use their imaginations as much as they once did. I agree that kid's go for the things you mention - but it is a bit of a chicken and egg scenario - do they prefer identifiable characters and adversarial conflict because it truly gives them the greatest pleasure, or because it is what is sold to them?

My children have entered their dark ages now - their LEGO being discarded for other interests and I admit that I re-enforced the above points by buying them more Star Wars (probably because I thought it was cool). But thinking back, they got the most imagination flexing from Bionicle. Star Wars had good guys and bad guys too distinctly defined - what is more even the weapon and vehicle types and colours were defined for the range. With Star Wars, they were imposed upon to build and play to a predetermined universe - with Bionicle, not as much - we made dragons, spiders, spaceships, warriors and all sorts of things - the less defined the range is, I find the more expansive it suggests the child's imagination should be.

I know, I should have brought them Creator sets :D

Point being, original CS design constrained the imagination less than any of the ideas mentioned. And, whether they think they would like it or not, isn't it better to strive to push child's play away from commercialised franchises, defined boys and girls stuff, good guys and bad guys and promote the use of their imaginations instead?

[DPrime]

Some is AFOL nostalgia, I agree but some is a concern that children don't use their imaginations as much as they once did. I agree that kid's go for the things you mention - but it is a bit of a chicken and egg scenario - do they prefer identifiable characters and adversarial conflict because it truly gives them the greatest pleasure, or because it is what is sold to them?

My children have entered their dark ages now - their LEGO being discarded for other interests and I admit that I re-enforced the above points by buying them more Star Wars (probably because I thought it was cool). But thinking back, they got the most imagination flexing from Bionicle. Star Wars had good guys and bad guys too distinctly defined - what is more even the weapon and vehicle types and colours were defined for the range. With Star Wars, they were imposed upon to build and play to a predetermined universe - with Bionicle, not as much - we made dragons, spiders, spaceships, warriors and all sorts of things - the less defined the range is, I find the more expansive it suggests the child's imagination should be.

I know, I should have brought them Creator sets :D

Point being, original CS design constrained the imagination less than any of the ideas mentioned. And, whether they think they would like it or not, isn't it better to strive to push child's play away from commercialised franchises, defined boys and girls stuff, good guys and bad guys and promote the use of their imaginations instead?

Some good, interesting points here. I think that, whether or not a CS reboot happens - Lego really should reexamine the idea of including pictures of alternate builds for whatever sets they do, even licensed ones like Star Wars. It really would encourage more creative play, I think.

[ummester]

I agree with that DPrime.

Remember those ideas books also? Filled with mini instructions and pictures of things you could build. It was all LEGOLAND then - I remember I had a book where a couple went from the circus, to the cinema, to space. The ideas could cross over each other because they were all effectively part of the same universe, or franchise.

I guess you can't put a Star Wars alt model on a Marvel plane or something - it would probably break the franchise rules or some such - but kids should be encouraged to make whatever they want with whatever pieces. I personally lost count of how many times I tried to make an AT-AT with classic space parts :D

Oddly, the LEGO movie emphasizes this exact point - that creativity should be explored but the LEGO movie sets are presented as another franchise subset, that is part of a little universe onto itself.

Edited August 6, 2014 by ummester

[Faefrost]

Really? You think if kids were given the choice between printed pieces and stickers, kids would choose stickers? Do you have any evidence of this?

Apparently it is something that shows up in Lego's play testing. Lego designers have said that kids seem to view the stickers as an important part of the build.

[TheNerdyOne_]

At this point our best hope for any sort of Classic Space sets in the near future is through Ideas sets. While very popular, I don't think the Exo Suit is enough for LEGO to justify a full Classic Space theme yet. We might see a few other sets to test the waters, like what they did with Minecraft before committing to a full theme, but I would recommend that we really try to get more Classic Space Ideas sets made.

[ummester]

Apparently it is something that shows up in Lego's play testing. Lego designers have said that kids seem to view the stickers as an important part of the build.

I can only speak for my children on this - but they both disliked the stickers. It slowed down the build process for them and they could become frustrated with placement.

[danth]

Apparently it is something that shows up in Lego's play testing. Lego designers have said that kids seem to view the stickers as an important part of the build.

I think this is Lego's excuse for cheaping out. I don't think any kid would choose stickers over printed parts.

[KringlesBricks]

I think this is Lego's excuse for cheaping out. I don't think any kid would choose stickers over printed parts.

Where is the AFOL testing?!?! ha-ha joking... Just imagine though!

[Artanis I]

Kids do love stickers. Sticker books are popular. I liked applying stickers to things when I was a kid, but I think after a certain age kids find placement frustrating if they aren't easy to put on straight or to correct if they are crooked.

Benny's spaceship had 1 sticker that had to be applied on a trans element, and I didn't get it on straight the first time. I tried to remove it and fix it as I usually do, but this time it didn't look very good, because the interfered glue layer shows through the sticker and element. It's just as well that it is hidden inside the model because it looks rubbish.

[Bob De Quatre]

Apparently it is something that shows up in Lego's play testing. Lego designers have said that kids seem to view the stickers as an important part of the build.

So Lego designers said kids view the stickers as an important part of the build, NOT that kids prefer stickers over printed parts...

I think there are both pros and cons...