Finding Parts for Technic MOCs

[Blakbird]

Go back in time only a few years and there were virtually no instructions available for building Technic MOCs, and very few for even System MOCs. More recently, through the efforts of builders like Crowkillers, Jurgen Krooshoop, Designer Han, Nico71 and others, we now have dozens of complex instructions available for free download or purchase. Many people with large collections may already have significant numbers of the parts needed. I've built a large number of these (at least 30) and have collected most of the parts individually from Bricklink. In the beginning, this was pretty easy to do if you could put up with the expense and the manual labor involved in organizing all the orders. More recently, this has become harder and harder. As it turns out, the worldwide availability of Technic parts is just not that large. For example, based on a recent thread I decided to build Crowkillers' Gallardo in white. Collecting some of the rare parts was not easy. But it was immediately clear that the worldwide supply of parts could only support the 3 of us who mentioned that we were building it. It will be virtually impossible for anyone else to build this model. Likewise when the red version of the Gallardo was originally released, collecting the parts was quite easy. However already the supply of the red 5x11 panels has dried up and made this model nearly impossible as well, even though this part is common and still in production (but not in red). Ask nychase what a nightmare it was trying to collect the parts for all of RoscoPC's F1 cars. Some parts just don't exist any more and needed to be substituted. Looking forward to the future, I expect technology to allow more models to be available with instructions and through social networking, more people to be interested in building them. This will make the parts shortage exponentially worse. The situation is worst in the USA where Technic is not as popular so there are not very many parts sellers.

This thread is to brainstorm ideas on how to improve this situation, even to make suggestions to the LEGO Company on how they can better support the fan community in this regard. Do we just need more people parting out sets and opening Bricklink stores? Do we need an easier way to order multiple lots of parts directly from LEGO? Do we need access a LUGBULK type of program which would allow some sellers to have much larger inventories of parts for sale?

Personally, I'd love to be able to order piles of parts directly from LEGO like a huge Bricklink store, but I understand that the logistics of stocking and picking all these parts makes that difficult. Alternatively, I wish LEGO would sell "Parts Packs" of large numbers of useful parts. Another recent thread indicates the most adult fans buy sets just for the parts which is far from an ideal way to get what you need. In the past, something similar to this used to be available. Examples:

For older, out of production parts, we are probably out of luck and are forced to use the second hand market to compete for a limited supply. But for current parts, there must be a better way. It seems that supply and demand are out of balance which is driving prices up and frustrating new builders.

[mahjqa]

I've been toying with the idea of alternate models for existing sets, but it would severely limit the building options.

[Paul Boratko]

I remember years ago ordering the Styling packs 10 at a time... I had silver panels coming out of my ears...

I can't even imagine how awesome that it would be to be able to order new styling packs with all panel fairings and all sizes of Flex axles in Orange, Blue, Green, etc...

Lego REALLY needs to bring these parts packs back again... They were EXTREMELY useful for building models...

These would sell like hotcakes...

[mo_]

I 100% agree with you Blakbird and thank you for posting this - I pray someone at Lego HQ is reading this.

As a new person wanting to build some of these really amazing creations it does get really difficult with some of the parts - shipping to my place gets a little pricey as well.

I think a good start would be a parts pack with two of each panel type so that a full range of parts in a single colour is always available or at least when Lego releases a new panel in a different colour they release the full compliment of panels rather than a staggered release. Perhaps a paint that bonds to Lego really well - a little bit of product diversification on Legos part

I know it is easier said than done but with red parts everything is there except the 5x11 panel with black however there are no more 19L flex axles. I know substitutes are available as well as different building techniques to achieve a similar look but in some cases I am sure a builder would really like to use a specific part in that circumstance.

That is my two cents

[timslegos]

A more substantial Lego-direct part store would be awesome! A overhaul of the pick-a-brick page would be more helpful for people to find what they need. Also, if Lego were to do a poll, I am sure they would find that the profits from selling bull-sets of common parts and also smaller lots would be far higher than the cost to make them. I can see why Lego is currently driving sales to larger sets rather than a parts store, but I think there is a huge AFOL market that would benefit the Lego company.

Tim

[DLuders]

There is an official LUGBULK Program, as described in this BrickBlogger article. Lego User Groups (LUGs), such as the Seattle LUG (SeaLUG), buy large numbers of Lego parts in bulk for their LUG members. Here are the Rules LEGO LUGBULK Program 2012. The next opportunity will be around New Years Day 2013.

[Blakbird]

There is an official LUGBULK Program, as described in this BrickBlogger article. Lego User Groups (LUGs), such as the Seattle LUG (SeaLUG), buy large numbers of Lego parts in bulk for their LUG members. Here are the Rules LEGO LUGBULK Program 2012. The next opportunity will be around New Years Day 2013.

Yes, I'm aware of the LUGBULK program, but unfortunately I seem to be the only one within hundreds of miles who cares about Technic so no one wants to order Technic parts.

[Paul Boratko]

Eric, is there anyway that we can find a loophole and start our own LUG even though we are 2,500 miles apart..? We'll call it TechLUG... There are some other key guys around the country to represent... Al we need is a website with a forum right..? I like to think that we are doing the best that we can to represent Technic here in the states...

[Blakbird]

Eric, is there anyway that we can find a loophole and start our own LUG even though we are 2,500 miles apart..? We'll call it TechLUG... There are some other key guys around the country to represent... Al we need is a website with a forum right..? I like to think that we are doing the best that we can to represent Technic here in the states...

I've certainly thought about that, but if you read the rules your LUG needs to host at least 2 events a year which is pretty hard with a virtual LUG. I even thought I'd heard that virtual LUGs are explicitly prohibited. So yes, we can start our own LUG if we want, but I don't know if it will qualify for LugBULK.

[nychase]

I've certainly thought about that, but if you read the rules your LUG needs to host at least 2 events a year which is pretty hard with a virtual LUG. I even thought I'd heard that virtual LUGs are explicitly prohibited. So yes, we can start our own LUG if we want, but I don't know if it will qualify for LugBULK.

I am pretty sure there needs to be a "gods of technic" exclusion from that rule (or ambassadors ).

The other problem (and this might just be my lack of knowledge of the BulkLUG) is that having the ability to order in bulk does nothing to the real crux of the problem. We need the ability to buy parts that SHOULD still be in production.

I am talking about ACTIVE molds (or recent enough) which the part just hasn't been made in a certain color. I mean for gods sake who expected that in 12 years LEGO couldn't find a way to incorporate yellow thin 1x6's or #4 connectors. REALLY??

I am not completely crazy. I don't want the ability to order parts for dead molds or in Old Light Grey (although the collector in me realizes the obvious value). I just want to be able to buy parts that should be in plentiful supply. Again, why were the 5x11 panels in orange restricted from Lego Direct purchase? "Mercedes License agreement", give me a break, what does Benz have to do with a plain orange panel?

I am pretty sure no one on this forum has purchased as much as I have on BL this year. This year alone I have fully collected for:

Barmans V8 (My second one...this time with orange heads)

Han's 6x6

Han's Lowloader

Han's Snowgroomer

5571 Trailer MOC

Jennifer Clarkes Baldwin Crane

Jennifer Clarkes JS220 Excavator

Pauls Vampire GT

Splats Water Strider

Jurgens Sunbeam Supercar

Pauls White Gallardo (yes I bought those last #4 connectors last weekend)

and of course Rosco's entire F1 fleet (all 15k parts)

Of everything I just listed, the parts that should still be in production are what give the most trouble (and expense). Of course they all had rare parts (ok, not so much the water strider) but most were parts that have no reason to not be "active". None were more vexing then obtaining 16x 11L orange liftarms.

Anyway, I think as a LUG (no matter how we are grouped) we should be able to have enough buying power to coerce LEGO into doing special production runs of rare active color and active mold parts.

Even if we were able to get that to happen the world would still need people like Paul who have hoards of rare parts and freely give them out to anyone trying to build his models.

I am here to tell you that the problem of rare parts is soon to get much, much worse. Exposure of these models and the know-how to build them is all it takes to put a burden on the available supply of any part.

[GuiliuG]

I don't really have that problem as I try to build only with my parts and I don't build other people MOCs. But I often buy separate parts from lego and it's frustrating to see that recent parts are already out of sale...

Concerning Bulklug, you can buy only parts which are in production so I don't think it will resolve this problem.

[vmln8r]

Again, why were the 5x11 panels in orange restricted from Lego Direct purchase? "Mercedes License agreement", give me a break, what does Benz have to do with a plain orange panel?

That's news to me. I was able to order eight a while back (along with the other nice parts from that set).

I think if you live within their shipping zone (which I don't), Lego Direct works out pretty nicely for rare, in-production parts. It'd be nicer still if they had an online ordering system/catalogue and delivered further afield.

[DLuders]

Yes, I'm aware of the LUGBULK program, but unfortunately I seem to be the only one within hundreds of miles who cares about Technic so no one wants to order Technic parts.

As you know, I live ~270 miles from you and COULD join SeaLUG so that you and I could purchase some Lego Technic parts in bulk. However, we would have to nominally abide by these LEGO LUGBULK rules:

"It is not allowed to resell the through LEGO LUGBULK bought elements – there will be a penalty for the LUG member if reselling the elements."

"The minimum order qty. per element is 50 pcs. and increase in 50 pcs. steps (except base plates and elements that cost more than 10 DKK/piece – there are no other exceptions!)"

So, if we wanted to get 50 ea. of the red or yellow 64782 "Technic, Panel Plate 1 x 5 x 11" parts (for example) @ ~USD $1.10 ea. (for example), that's a cash outlay of USD $55. I personally do not have a need for ~25 ea. of those panels right now, but maybe in 5 years I would use them up. Any LUGBULK purchase could easily involve hundreds of dollars, but I'd consider it. Please e-mail me at LudersDG@MSN.com to discuss further. We cannot be "in a hurry" to get LUGBULK parts, because it could take 6 MONTHS to receive them.

In the past, whenever I wanted to order some of the newer Lego Technic parts in quantity, I telephoned Lego Customer Service ("Lego Direct") in Enfield, Connecticut USA at 1-800-838-9647, ext. 1. Before they were available on Bricklink, I most recently ordered 24 ea. of the 10197 part (Lego Element ID 6005331, pictured below), available now for USD $0.18 each:

The Customer Service person said I could have ordered 10 different Lego parts (in whatever quantities I wanted for each part), as long as I had the Lego Element IDs and a credit card. Months ago, they used to say I could order 15 different line items. Any parts needed to be from sets sold in the last 5 years.

I'm not sure that TLG is much interested in expanding this "Lego Direct" program. I read somewhere that the "parts pickers" (two old women at the Lego production facility in the Czech Republic) were overworked....

Edited September 8, 2012 by DLuders

[Paul Boratko]

That's news to me. I was able to order eight a while back (along with the other nice parts from that set).

I think if you live within their shipping zone (which I don't), Lego Direct works out pretty nicely for rare, in-production parts. It'd be nicer still if they had an online ordering system/catalogue and delivered further afield.

My friend from West Virginia was also denied when he tried to purchase the orange parts from the unimog... Even though they are the same orange color that Lego has made before...

[RohanBeckett]

when you get crazy people like this:

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=73497

http://www.eurobricks.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=72558

is it any wonder that certain pieces are in short supply???

RB

[Erik Leppen]

Great topic.

I think before looking for solutions, the question is, what is the actual source of the problem. Now I don't have much experience in trying to collect parts for a MOC through Bricklink, I think the problem is that some parts are rare and much demanded. The only way to solve this problem is to get more of those parts produced and somehow ending up at people willing to sell them. There is only one company who can produce those parts, and that is the Lego company. So, any solution that will work in the long-run, has to involve TLC somehow.

Now of course it has to be worthwhile for TLC - or they won't be doing it.

TLC can set up a parts store - but prices will have to be so that all costs are covered. This will only work for the really rare parts.

TLC can sell separate parts packs. But the specific part collections these packages contain has to be very carefully selected so the ratio of useful parts vs. extra parts is good enough for people to actually buy those. With this I mean that if a parts pack contains 100 parts, but I only need three and know I won't be needing the other 97, then I'm better off with a Bricklink - even if BL supplies run out. I think Bricklink sellers however, would be interested in all those parts. But this has to be profitable for both TLC and the BL sellers. This means there have to be two profit margins, which will eventually be at the expense of buyers.

Also, the demand of parts is very much fluctuating. The white Gallardo idea popped up randomly and suddenly there was a very sharp spike in demand of very specific parts that are normally not at the core of attention. Whatever the solution will be, it has to be able to adapt to totally unexpected very sharp rises in demand. I think the parts packs solution, for example, isn't. Only a parts store where anyone can buy any part they want, will suffice. But that would require a huge stock of parts to fulfill (almost) every possible demand (i mean, who expected the sudden demand for white Technic?). There is only one company that can have such a large stock - and that is TLC.

Also, it has to be asked whether this problem is even solvable. Maybe the AFOL community shouldn't go all out to try to build three white Gallardos at once. It might be a much better solution to collect one package, and then have that one package sent along to various builders wanting to have that experience of building a white Gallardo, then disassembling it and passing the package on to the next person. That way, you are in fact recycling the parts.

Edited September 8, 2012 by Erik Leppen

[DLuders]

Yes, what we really want is a well-stocked "Lego Supermarket". The 73 different Technic parts available at Lego Pick-A-Brick are totally inadequate -- the only Technic Liftarm offered there is a 3L Thin Technic Liftarm ("Lever").

[cgarison]

My friend from West Virginia was also denied when he tried to purchase the orange parts from the unimog... Even though they are the same orange color that Lego has made before...

I find the lack of Technic parts a real shame. I actually picked up an extra Unimog kit for the orange parts and pneumatic pieces. It sounds expensive, but when you look at the prices of the pieces on Bricklink or through Lego Education, it was not a bad value at all.

I would like to build models that are some color other than black and bley. Even the red and yellow plates are rare/expensive in the secondary market.

[Crtlego]

This is one very interesting discussion. I stopped buying sets for parts a long time ago.. the high number of basic parts (pins, connectors, axles etc) versus that of the more unique/specialty ones simply didn't make the purchase of new sets worthwhile. I have since wanted to get the 9398, 8110 (to name a few) for the unique parts that they provided but the cost was simply to high. Granted, purchasing each of the pieces included in these sets individually is considerably higher than the set itself, but that still doesn't lower its price.. so I've been keeping my purchases on the low.

A number of good points and arguments have been made already so here's my two cents.

We, as a Technic Community, are, I would think, relatively small compared to the number of 12 and below kids who are Lego's "focus group." Although a number of us take the art of Technic much more seriously (or should I say professionally?), we are in the relative few. Our hobby involves acquiring a huge variety of parts in, at times, large numbers. The demand for certain parts is constantly shifting while for others it is gradually declining. Some of us weigh the price of a certain part above or need for that part and make do without it and others are able to do the opposite.

Currently, Lego sells the majority of its products through their online shop and physical stores (their own Lego store or at a retailer like, in the case of us Americans, Toys'r'us, Target, or Walmart etc). In either case, they sell whole sets (with the exception of electronic parts like Power Functions and Mindstorms that can be sold individually online). A set is their main medium for a number of reasons. In nearly every case minus Technic, a set is a story. The builder of that set follows instructions until he builds what is on the box and uses the functions that have been incorporated into the set by Lego. Depending on the theme, sets may be designed to be built with other sets, further embracing the "set" philosophy. Sets are attractive to parents because they can see what will be built (knowing that instructions will be used to do so) and don't have to worry about the design or inventive process behind it -nor do they worry about not having parts or what parts or colors they will need. As much as my mentality and personal preferences go against this, there is nothing wrong with the concept of a set. It is ingenious. It does, however, point out the difference in uses that Lego has. On one side, it is seen as the building blocks of a pre-designed set and, on the other, it is seen as a medium through which our own creativity is shown and with which we can build whatever our hearts and hands desire - both parts of the spectrum are seen in the Technic community but here, a particular emphasis is put on the word MOC -my own creation. Sets are still of importance to MOCers in that they result in the development of new pieces that have not been seen before (either in their entirety, or simply in their color), but a certain convenience is permitted by tools like Bricklink and Ebay that allow us to buy one, two, or a hundred of a particular part that we need.

Personally, I would be satisfied with a new Pick a Brick system that had an EXTREMELY LARGE RANGE of available parts (sorry for caps, the emphasis on LARGE RANGE was meant for the eyes of any TLG officials reading this). Bricklink has this range, but not enough supply to meet shifts in demand. Also, Bricklink has a number of retired parts that are becoming (if they haven't already) increasingly rare or expensive. Lego Direct is not in the spotlight, but is still an important tool -it is, besides LUG, the only "real" means of buying Technic parts directly from Lego (the current Pick A Brick is not even up for consideration in this matter). Lego Direct, however, has its own limits (prices higher than bricklink at times, pieces that are no longer in production, limited shipping, part quantity limits, telephone-based with subsequent restrictions on ordering hours..). Although satisfying our needs may not be the most profitable course of action for Lego, it should certainly be one of their most important.. They would have no problem producing extra parts and hosting a new site to sell them to the whole Lego community. Granted, we can expect them to sell old parts that have long since been outdated (however sad this may be). If Lego is concerned that the "per part" purchase model will be unpopular, maybe they should put it ON THE LEGO SHOP.. where everybody goes to buy Legos!

Maybe the problem is that we are so few and we are spread so far apart. I live in the U.S. and like Blakbird said earlier, Technic is hardly known around here. At the stores, it is in the back, rarely on display, and, with the exception of the sub1000 part sets, hard to find at certain retailers. Visiting conventions like Brickfair, it is easy to see how small the American Technic community really is (I'm sorry to say that I missed my chance at display this past summer) and it is sad to see the general misconceptions and confusion revolving our precious theme.. there is no excuse for calling Technic pieces Bionicles.. I hope that when I am older, I will have the chance to visit the Technic community (go to a convention or two and possibly a Trial Truck competition - I wish such a thing existed in the U.S.) because I have read and seen how much more popular it is there.. LUGBULK may work there but I fear it would be hard to implement here (also, the large quantity of parts is somewhat unappealing imo).

There's my two cents

[ShaydDeGrai]

I used to teach at an engineering school and often found ways to work LEGO prototypes into my lab courses. I usually had better luck with the Lego Education site than scavenging Technic models for parts. The prices weren't great and the selection varied, but for bulk purchases of generic parts and parts packs it was pretty good for filling the bins in the LEGO prototype lab.

It's been a while since I've done business with them, but it might be worth investigating.

[Blakbird]

I used to teach at an engineering school and often found ways to work LEGO prototypes into my lab courses. I usually had better luck with the Lego Education site than scavenging Technic models for parts. The prices weren't great and the selection varied, but for bulk purchases of generic parts and parts packs it was pretty good for filling the bins in the LEGO prototype lab.

It's been a while since I've done business with them, but it might be worth investigating.

I use LEGO Education pretty regularly, but it has severe limitations. Their selection of parts is very limited, especially if you want a specific color. In fact, you don't even know what color they will send you until the parts arrive. In most cases, the prices are far above Bricklink prices, but there are some exceptions in which it is a good value. I often get PF parts from them, and sometimes pneumatics.

Another poster mentioned that Lugbult actually prohibits the parts from being sold on Bricklink. This pretty much kills it for Technic. There is very little chance that I need 200 red 5x11 panels, but I want someone to have that many in their store to make the price and availability reasonable.

It is also sad that the Pick-a-Brick walls at the LEGO store never have any Technic parts, so that is not a resource for us either.

[hoeij]

I am here to tell you that the problem of rare parts is soon to get much, much worse. Exposure of these models and the know-how to build them is all it takes to put a burden on the available supply of any part.

After you have had one of these wonderful models for some time, perhaps you could

disassemble it and sell it (or exchange it for another model) to someone else on eurobricks?

[nychase]

After you have had one of these wonderful models for some time, perhaps you could

disassemble it and sell it (or exchange it for another model) to someone else on eurobricks?

I looked up this post just now and noticed this last post.

Would there be a large interest in doing something like this?

As Eric and I have some of the larger MOC collections we had actually talked about doing this more formally but didn't come to any concrete conclusions. I guess you could say we are already doing it considering there are a few F1 cars of mine sitting in Seattle.

[Hopey]

Having had a quick read of this topic, there's one issue that I think will affect it in the not-too-distant future: cheap, widely available 3D printers.

At the moment, if I really want a 5x11 red panel, and there's none available on bricklink, from TLG, in set, etc, then I've got no option and have to do without one. But I predict that within a few years there will be another option: to print one myself.

Now obviously it won't be as good as a genuine one, and there will be many people (probably myself included) who won't resort to this at all.

But some people will. And I'm interested to see how TLG handles it. If we liken printing your own Lego parts to pirating music or movies, then I'm hoping that TLG goes down the path that iTunes and Netflix has: if you make the product easily available for purchase, then most (or at least many) people will prefer to legitimately purchase them rather than resorting to piracy.

It's currently not a problem, so there's no real pressure at the moment for them to address it. But 3D printing is coming, and I'm sure that some folks at TLG are already considering strategies to address it. They're probably more concerned about people printing General Grievous than a 5x11 panel though.

What I'd love to see is a community-based system where people vote for what parts they'd like to see made available, and TLG takes this into account (with certain limits of course) and perhaps opens a huge bricklink-style online store, or monthly releases of parts packs, or even just using this to stock the pick-a-brick at the shops.

Anyway, that's my 2c.

[Jim]

What I'd love to see is a community-based system where people vote for what parts they'd like to see made available, and TLG takes this into account (with certain limits of course) and perhaps opens a huge bricklink-style online store, or monthly releases of parts packs, or even just using this to stock the pick-a-brick at the shops.

This would be a great solution.

A vastly expanded online-pick-a-brick-bricklink-style-shop would be the AFOL's wet dream

(however, the current bricklink shop owner won't be so happy)