The Curse of IMHOTEP - Conclusion

[Bob]

I think you mean:

15 Games-0 Survivals

Not to rub it in, just pointing out the difference.

Who wouldn't lynch Bob?

Yeah, what Corny said. It was a team game, so you're a winner too Bob!

*oh2*

Huzzah! It only took three years and fifteen games, but I've finally won!

[CorneliusMurdock]

Huzzah! It only took three years and fifteen games, but I've finally won!

And you did it with style and grace.

[Tamamono]

• Instead of the scum's Weak Tracker role - which was in effect a virgin-detector, and a hint to the scum that they should be looking for those without night actions; they weren't explicitly told - I wish we'd given them a Hijacker role. This game would have been perfect for that! Not only would it have allowed them to find out which townies had which actions, it would have allowed them to use the action for a night, blocked the respective townie, and given them a much-needed advantage But we didn't think of it until the game was underway

A Hijacker action would have been totally awesome. I had just been thinking the other day what an advantage it gave the Baritones 3 scum.

The High Priest role was the answer to the problem of what happened to the vigilante kills. It is a passive role - the player wasn't told about it, beyond some hint about an 'ascetic lifestyle'; each night, the player would appear as a dark figure carrying any vig kills into the statue. Had Wuntin used his kill earlier in the game, scum probably would have figured this out sooner.

So why ascetic? This action had to be unblockable - otherwise the game concept wouldn't work. As a side-effect, it made the player immune to investigative actions and modifiers, which would be a hindrance early in the game as it would cause suspicion; but when scum started to lose members of their team, they could pair it with another action (ideally the killer) to create an extremely powerful role (and the only way to defeat the Bwankie). It was also immune to night kills - this to prevent the aforementioned problem of the game ending in a draw - but we decided to keep the 'ascetic' title as we thought hints about 'ninja' would be too obvious. Again, apologies to the confusion this caused; however you can see how we tried to balance the confusion equally on both sides!

I have to admit, I'm really a sucker for weird or uncommon roles, and I loved and hated the High Priest role when I found out what it did. However, you really shouldn't have named it 'ascetic', because mafiascum defines asectic as killable.

As for the other actions, I do have a couple of complaints. Firstly, having both a Virgin Cop and a Cherrinator plus an Investigator was over the top. While at least one of the first two was totally necessary, and it was important to get an investigator to clear the nonvirgins, having all three was too much. I think the Virgin Cop could have been cut without any problem.

Secondly, the fact that we needed to kill all ten virgins gave us a very narrow path to walk. I think either the Virgin Cop or the Watcher/Tracker could have been virgins instead to give us a little more leeway.

And duh! I can't believe I didn't realize that it was the first person quoted in-thread! If we had figured that out, I think we would have been able to take out some important people.

With def dead, the town unite behind Hinckley. Could killing def have been a mistake?

I don't think so. Both Hinckley and def have their own very distinct playing styles, and we (at least I was) were more prepared to deal with Hinck than with def.

It looks at face value like a disastrous night for Town, but they learn that Bob is likely not scum, and Tammo not a virgin (we don't know at this point what Tammo has claimed). <edit after the event> Pandy has pointed out that we did know - obviously I didn't read the scumboard carefully

I still can't believe that I was investigated and cherrinated in the same night and still got away because of what I claimed to Hinck!

See, Tammo? This is why we pushed you to the bottom of the suspect list and didn't invesigate you the following night!

I can't believe my plan to trick the tracker actually worked. It didn't do me much good, though! The problem with watchers/trackers is that they can't always get perfect results because the scum can choose not to act just like the town can.

If we hadn't killed Zepher it would have been between him and Tammo to lynch the last day and I'm not entirely certain it would have been Tammo that was chosen.

With my skilled defense? Zepher would'a been toast! Especially if he had been claiming that his block failed on me.

[Rufus]

Knowing exactly how the mirror cloak worked now makes it seem to suck even more. If it always redirected to scum, it might have been worth more.

Why would it always redirect to scum? That would have been decidedly unfair. Everyone seemed to assume it did, on the basis of one result...

Not every action given to Town, in any given game, is there purely for the benefit of Town. Town had plenty of power roles in this game. This role was judged to add confusion to both sides at the start, but as I've already said: it wouldn't have been easy by any means, but just by looking at the two people who did target def on Night One, it should perhaps have given a clue as to what was going on.

I know it's easy for us to say, and we accept Hinck's criticism of the role.

[Pandora]

I have to admit, I'm really a sucker for weird or uncommon roles, and I loved and hated the High Priest role when I found out what it did. However, you really shouldn't have named it 'ascetic', because mafiascum defines asectic as killable.

If we'd given it a made-up name too, you would have been even more in the dark. It was called 'Ascetic' because that was what it was, albeit a modified version, and to give you some way (in the same way we did with Hinck's infernal blanket) of working out what it did.

If we'd not decided to make the role unkillable, it would have been possible for the game to end in a draw which we didn't want, and it is conceivable that there might be people complaining that it should have been.

[Eskallon]

I am a little confused about one thing totally unrelated to the game. If your team wins and you die, do you still win? Surely not since you didn't make it out alive. I heard about this a good few games ago but didn't think about it much and it came to mind again.

Another question, how many of you jot down things in the game, I was using a large powerpoint with each character on a page and then other pages of information and my thoughts, I began that on day 5. Before then I was using a little book which I scrapped since I preferred the digital powerpoint.

[Rufus]

As for the other actions, I do have a couple of complaints. Firstly, having both a Virgin Cop and a Cherrinator plus an Investigator was over the top. While at least one of the first two was totally necessary, and it was important to get an investigator to clear the nonvirgins, having all three was too much. I think the Virgin Cop could have been cut without any problem.

In retrospect, we'd agree. We were concerned that the game was unbalanced towards scum, because of the simulation results. But I bet you could play the exact same game, with the same players in some parallel universe, and get an entirely different result.

Secondly, the fact that we needed to kill all ten virgins gave us a very narrow path to walk. I think either the Virgin Cop or the Watcher/Tracker could have been virgins instead to give us a little more leeway.

Possibly. But as Pandy said, it's really no different to a standard Mafia game - except that you have fewer players you need to kill.

I don't think so. Both Hinckley and def have their own very distinct playing styles, and we (at least I was) were more prepared to deal with Hinck than with def.

My point was that Hinck's and def's argument effectively split the town.

[Brickdoctor]

I am a little confused about one thing totally unrelated to the game. If your team wins and you die, do you still win? Surely not since you didn't make it out alive. I heard about this a good few games ago but didn't think about it much and it came to mind again.

I think all EB games are now team win. It makes it easier to risk your life to catch a Scum, and it prevents the good players from losing after being killed by metagaming killers.

[Eskallon]

I think all EB games are now team win. It makes it easier to risk your life to catch a Scum, and it prevents the good players from losing after being killed by metagaming killers.

But surely the point is to survive while doing so, it does prevent metagame kills but it doesn't make it something to live for. I always thought that winning was meant to be a much harder thing and something to strive for, but if its that meaningless now...

Concerning the Cherrinator. I think it was a great action despite it unintentionally turning into the virgin masons, my only problem was that I was kicked off the team of it. Not that it wasn't hard to guess after a day who was part of it.

[CorneliusMurdock]

I know it's easy for us to say, and we accept Hinck's criticism of the role.

I think you guys gave us a terrific game. I was just frustrated by the cloak, too. Didn't mean anything by my somewhat harsh comments about it.

[Fugazi]

Thank you very much for the extensive description of the game mechanics! I think the concept was very sound and well thought out. As you said, in different circumstances the result could have been very different. Had we prepared more solid claims early on for instance, we wouldn't have lost two players so quickly and we could have survived two more days -- possibly enough time to achieve our aim.

Though I agree that this game was similar to a standard game with 24 players and 5 scum, in my opinion there still was a major difference. All virgins, so 10 townies out of 19, could be cleared by 3 night actions (investigator, Flavour Cop and Cherrinator) instead of only one (investigator). And while the result of an investigator could have been disputed for a day or two (were he insane or naive, or investigating a framed player) no one ever doubted the accuracy of the results of the Flavour Cop or the Cherrinator. Well everyone thought at some point that Prof Flitwick might be scum, but it's the case for most of the townie roles in any game. Anyway, my point is that I think the town had more tools to clear their members than in a standard game.

If the scum have any sense, they will ask themselves why they have a protector.

So why did we have a protector?

[def]

I don't think so. Both Hinckley and def have their own very distinct playing styles, and we (at least I was) were more prepared to deal with Hinck than with def.

I know I had just had that long experience with you in Gotham, so I can understand your thinking, but I really wasn't looking to repeat that. A lot of people contacted me, and except for Cecilie and Flitwick, I wasn't doing much strategy. Those two I did some, only because I had to, as a responsible townie.

I had pretty much mentally checked out of the game. I did a little rally to kill Pie, just for a laugh, but I had no spread sheets, no notes or anything. Compared to Gotham, where I had to write out the player list twice, with notes on who cleared who, and how, plus their claims, etc. etc. There was little chance I was going to do that again.

And a little note to Bob. When I posted that banner to lynch Pie, you made a comment about me taking the game too seriously, and I disagreed. I made that banner to have fun and hopefully give people a chuckle. It's one thing to categorically give reasons to vote someone out of the game, which is the actual serious (and less fun) part. But throwing together a cheesy political banner with a cheesy slogan was a very light-hearted thing to do And certainly, ridding the camp of Malaena Stools was a way to "Build a better camp... for tomorrow!" or whatever I wrote

I have to say, my biggest laugh in this game was over Pie. Basically, I asked him, "That's your defense?" and he replied, "Oh, I haven't made my defense yet!" or something of the sort. Then he proceeded to run to Hinckley and tell a ridiculous defense that ended up being the nail in his coffin In retrospect, a public claim, like Flitwick, Sandy, and I used to get off the lynch would have been the best bet. I think that was sort of said after Gotham too. When faced with the choice between two, the one who publicly claims is going to win. Ironically, in Bloodbrick II, as a townie on the lynch, you did roleclaim. So there is a big difference between your town and scum style

And as to game balance, I saw no problems. Scum had lots of chances, and the vig helped them out a bit. I questioned the need for virgins, since if scum outnumbered town, they'd win anyway, but I'm sure it did spur people on.

I do think the watcher/tracker roles really tend to crucify scum though. Usually, at least one is caught that way, and I don't think I would use them in my future games unless there were a massive load of players. The roles on their own aren't too powerful, but on top of a cop and whatever, they make town pretty tight and able to verify stories.

I'm curious as to what you think about Hinck's "Easter Eggs." It's a real question of the intent of the law versus the letter of the law.

[CMP]

Ironically, in Bloodbrick II, as a townie on the lynch, you did roleclaim. So there is a big difference between your town and scum style

Yes, but I got there (and in Gotham too) making the same suggestion of not voting. It doesn't seem like anybody ever even considers it, they just lynch whoever makes the suggestion it. Is it taboo?

I tried to learn from Bloodbricks II that public roleclaiming doesn't help. I took it to Gotham - private claiming didn't help either. I took it here, and claiming still doesn't work. Honestly, I made the exact same mistakes within these three games, the only real difference being what you just mentioned - act semi-active and get lynched for suggesting not voting. Not a fantastic idea, no,o so I don't think i'll be bringing it up any more. Just kind of irritated me that nobody ever saw any use in it - I thought having lynched a virgin the day before would give the idea more merit for once. Nope!

I found the banner funny, myself.

[Rufus]

Anyway, my point is that I think the town had more tools to clear their members than in a standard game.

Agreed. We should perhaps have given you guys a virgin of your own, or a conversion, but it's all to easy to analyse the game balance purely based on the way it turned out. As I said, our biggest fear was a scum walkover, given the results of the simulation, and we perhaps overcompensated

So why did we have a protector?

I wrote that before the game started, when it all seemed so obvious ... It was supposed to be a hint to 'watch your backs' from an unexpected direction, because of the possibility that you could accidentally kill each other via the redirection action. Not that you'd have worked that out in a million years: it was just kind of a warning ... I admit it sounds rather lame now that I'm trying to explain it!

You put it to much better use, anyway

[Scubacarrot]

Now that I am back, and not on a phone with stupid autocorrect and have read the whole thing, It makes me respect the hosts even more . As I said before, I dont know if I will sign up for a mafia game again, but I think a Pandufus game would be something I wanna do again!

[def]

I tried to learn from Bloodbricks II that public roleclaiming doesn't help

It does help, but you have to do it before there are 24 votes against you. At that point, it was too late to choose someone else, and have everyone else shift their votes.

And, just so everybody knows, Pandufus was the name of a mental patient. I don't know what the players are insinuating when they keep calling the hosts that

[LEGOman273]

And, just so everybody knows, Pandufus was the name of a mental patient. I don't know what the players are insinuating when they keep calling the hosts that

Are you ready for a ?

The game was co-hosted by Pandora and Rufus.

:facepalm: :wall:

[Fugazi]

Agreed. We should perhaps have given you guys a virgin of your own, or a conversion, but it's all to easy to analyse the game balance purely based on the way it turned out. As I said, our biggest fear was a scum walkover, given the results of the simulation, and we perhaps overcompensated

Yes, I'm quite positive that my views on the balance are tainted by the end result! And I certainly don't think that this setup was an impossible endeavour for us. We made more than a few mistakes which could have been avoided, and they all added up to our defeat.

I wrote that before the game started, when it all seemed so obvious ... It was supposed to be a hint to 'watch your backs' from an unexpected direction, because of the possibility that you could accidentally kill each other via the redirection action. Not that you'd have worked that out in a million years: it was just kind of a warning ... I admit it sounds rather lame now that I'm trying to explain it!

I can't say it was impossible to figure out that the mirror cloak acted as a Nexus -- for many reasons we were unlucky that it redirected to me on that first night, one of the reasons being that we then assumed it only redirected to scum. However, figuring out the precise mechanism which would aim the nexus to a specific target was an impossible task!

Are you ready for a ?

The game was co-hosted by Pandora and Rufus.

:facepalm: :wall:

No kidding

[K-Nut]

Are you ready for a ?

The game was co-hosted by Pandora and Rufus.

:facepalm: :wall:

Are you ready to realize that post was ?

[Pandora]

Are you ready for a ?

The game was co-hosted by Pandora and Rufus.

:facepalm: :wall:

Uhhhm, the mental patient Pandufus was played by Pandora and Rufus. Us!

In fact our full name was Pandufus Randora in that mafia game.

And it was def's game (Fraulein Bloodbrick), so he should know!

[def]

Are you ready for a ?

The game was co-hosted by Pandora and Rufus.

:facepalm: :wall:

Wow! Who came up with that?!

Thanks for the info

[Masked Builder]

You two host an amazing game. I can only hope to be able to match your great idea. You had one amazing idea and did a great job with the story and setting. Congrats to the town with the win! (Let's hope I play in the next game. )

[Bob]

And a little note to Bob. When I posted that banner to lynch Pie, you made a comment about me taking the game too seriously, and I disagreed. I made that banner to have fun and hopefully give people a chuckle. It's one thing to categorically give reasons to vote someone out of the game, which is the actual serious (and less fun) part. But throwing together a cheesy political banner with a cheesy slogan was a very light-hearted thing to do And certainly, ridding the camp of Malaena Stools was a way to "Build a better camp... for tomorrow!" or whatever I wrote

I know you weren't taking it seriously. There's people a lot worse off than you are. (Like those who are kept up at night contemplating the game)

[LEGOman273]

Are you ready to realize that post was ?

Than you should have put , , or .

[JimBee]

I also think the game mechanic with the scum conditions worked out really well. It got vanillas more involved in the game and definitely made things more interesting. I would like to see this method used in future games. I also agree that it really could have gone either way, the townies were just fortunate in that they organized very quickly.

Cornelius Murdock - I was pretty certain that you were scum. I swear, you acted so much differently in this game than in others. In Belville and one other game I've played with you, it was so obvious that you were town so I teamed up with you right away. I don't know what happened this time around.

And it sounds like I missed a lot by refusing to trust Hinck. I wouldn't have been very useful, but maybe I wouldn't have gotten popped if I had claimed right away. Oh well. Excellent job on leading the town again, Hinck, definitely as awesome if not more so than in Werewolf.

One man wolf pack.