Grouping Factions into a Super Faction of Castle

[Cpt. Dan]

With the new Kingdoms line, I noticed a similiarity to other lines in the past. I was thinking, instead of having 20 factions duking it out against each other, wouldn't be interesting if some of the factions teamed up or became "branches"

For example: I just took my Kingdom knights and Royal knights from the mid 90's and made them the "good guys" because they both have the Lion as their symbol. For me Kingdoms seem more specialized and remind me of some type of specialized infantry like the Marines for the US.

Dragon Masters and the new Dragon knights are now the same faction for me as well. Knights are the soldiers and Masters control the fantasy element of the whole operation.

Black Knights are alone since they don't need anyone, and Forestmen/Dark Forest are with the Wolfpack since they can use all of the help they can find.

Now on to the reason: In terms of MOC'ing, I was curious on other people's take of this idea. I know it will look like several factions mashed together but for some reason I really think it could be a good idea. I also think we can all help generate ideas in terms of which factions are similar enough to make allies or the same army.

Just a though, I really want to hear everyone else's feedback! Sorry if there is another thread on this, I searched for it before posting and couldn't find anything.

[Hoboman]

With the new Kingdoms line, I noticed a similiarity to other lines in the past. I was thinking, instead of having 20 factions duking it out against each other, wouldn't be interesting if some of the factions teamed up or became "branches"

My six year old and I have begun to build "Knight Armies" as he calls them. I started us out by buying a couple fo the Kingdoms small sets and one of the Battle Packs for him. I also went through my old bags and found a few old Castle minifigs. We did just what you suggested. He is the "Good Guys" and I am the "Bad Guys". He has any red or lions on his side and I kept the Green (and old knight) and the Dragon guys on my side. So far it has been fun.

I think for MOC reasons your idea has a great deal of merit and makes sense.

[Shroffy123]

I enjoy army building, however, I do not like to have very massive amounts of minifigs of one particular kind. So I've found it very beneficial to group my different factions into one "super" faction. It allows for each solider in my army to have his own unique look. With that sad;

I group my factions based on the heredity of their shields. So my crusaders, royal knights, and the new Kingdom RED faction are considered one large faction. My Black Knights, Dragon Masters and the new GREEN faction represent another single faction.

I then will group, or ally, my factions based on what I think looks like a good color scheme. So e.g., my Black Knights faction is allied with my Fright Knight faction, and my Lion Faction is allied with my Crownie faction.

[Artifex]

I was all for buying the new Kingdoms sets and build huge armies of the new Lion and Dragon knights. But after getting a couple of older sets, I want to get more of the old Lions and Falcons, but I don't want to give up on the new line. So I'll probably end up doing what you just described: gathering some of them in a big faction, some others in a different one, and get the Forestmen and Wolfpack as a third and fourth factions.

I've been thinking on how to mix the old Crusaders/Lions with the new, and my conclusion is much like yours: specialized troops; Crusaders you'll probably man the castle, the old Lions will guard the castle, man the ships and serve as main infantry, new Lions will guard the king and so on and so forth... Seems to work pretty well withouth giving up on any of the factions/minifigs.

[Artanis I]

I always assumed as a kid that they were meant to be grouped together. I intend to do the same when my current "castle phase" comes into full fruition.

Crusaders/Lion Knights/Castlemen whatever they were called teamed up with Royal Knights, Knight's Kingdom I & II, Fantasy Era "Crownies" (when that $#*&!@$ castle finally falls into my hands) & the new Kingdoms version of the Lion Knights.

Black Falcons, Black Knights, Dragon Knights/Dragon Masters whatever, Fright Knights, Vladek & Shadow Knights and the new green Dragon Knights.

Forest & Wolf men I already grouped together. I'm not sure if I'll get Dark Forest, but I'd put them in there too.

That leaves Cow Pack (or whatever it's called again), Undead, Trolls & Dwarves. Might depend on final numbers as to whether I put them in with any other group, and which one.

[Antoi]

I always assumed as a kid that they were meant to be grouped together. I intend to do the same when my current "castle phase" comes into full fruition.

Crusaders/Lion Knights/Castlemen whatever they were called teamed up with Royal Knights, Knight's Kingdom I & II, Fantasy Era "Crownies" (when that $#*&!@$ castle finally falls into my hands) & the new Kingdoms version of the Lion Knights.

Black Falcons, Black Knights, Dragon Knights/Dragon Masters whatever, Fright Knights, Vladek & Shadow Knights and the new green Dragon Knights.

Forest & Wolf men I already grouped together. I'm not sure if I'll get Dark Forest, but I'd put them in there too.

That leaves Cow Pack (or whatever it's called again), Undead, Trolls & Dwarves. Might depend on final numbers as to whether I put them in with any other group, and which one.

If you look at it in historic terms, then there are not that many factions. In theory that is. Medival Europe had a few kings and Emperors who needed the help of their vazals (is that correct English?) basicly the vazals promised the king to help them. In return the got ground which gave them theire income (and power). Those vazals fought each other, and sometimes their own king! But if their king waged ware against an other king the're supposed to help their king out with some soldiers......

Hope this make any sence (I tell it better in dutch then English) but this way you see the factions work together but at the same time there is some frictions between de factions on the same side.

[Hive]

Medival Europe had a few kings and Emperors who needed the help of their vazals (is that correct English?)

It's vassal. :) Check your Eurobrick group if in doubt. :D

[Tycho McKorley]

Like it was said before, it would make sense to group disparate because there was a lot of different heraldry on the medieval battlefield. Each lord and knight would have his own colors and design and their retainers and servants would wear corresponding livery. I wonder how they kept track of everybody though. :-/

[Artanis I]

If you look at it in historic terms, then there are not that many factions. In theory that is. Medival Europe had a few kings and Emperors who needed the help of their vazals (is that correct English?) basicly the vazals promised the king to help them. In return the got ground which gave them theire income (and power). Those vazals fought each other, and sometimes their own king! But if their king waged ware against an other king the're supposed to help their king out with some soldiers......

Hope this make any sence (I tell it better in dutch then English) but this way you see the factions work together but at the same time there is some frictions between de factions on the same side.

True! But complicated for many children... I kinda dumbed it down, the groups were together but occasionally had infighting.

Like it was said before, it would make sense to group disparate because there was a lot of different heraldry on the medieval battlefield. Each lord and knight would have his own colors and design and their retainers and servants would wear corresponding livery. I wonder how they kept track of everybody though. :-/

*taps shoulder* "I say, excuse me my good man... are you fighting for the advancing army or the local defense? I'm with Sir Galston of the advancing army, I saw your back to me undefended but I didn't want to have your head off if we were allies, don't you know!"

"Er, 'ow you say... take zat?" CLINK

[Inertia]

I group the two new factions as subdivisions of the Crown Knights due to similarities in Uniform.

As for the older factions, the only Castle sets that I really have other than Kingdoms and Fantasy are KKII and Ninja. After discarding the Jellybean Knights, I used the Scorpion Knights as Mercenaries like the Orcs were.

[Apache]

I also group old and new lion knights together as one faction along with Crusaders. The forest men and wolf pack usually band together for raids and will hire out to certain kingdoms as archers for the right price.

However, the dragons knights I use as a seperate faction. I don't like the idea of them, the old dragon knights, black falcons being 1 faction. They are all different but will ally with each other to conquer territory.

This is a good post, I like to read about what other people do as fars as grouping, ect.

[xyxstradus]

I wouldn't say I have a super faction, I just kinda rationalize that the lion knights and crown knights were once under one banner but the crown knights defected and started their own kingdom. They'll occasionally band together to fend off the dragon knights but beyond that don't get along too well. As for my other characters like black falcons and forestmen, I group them under a loose rogue organization that's basically a collection of very small factions that work together to fend off any threats from the bigger kingdoms.

[Sirens-of-Titan]

I have a small force of Royal knights from the 90'sthat I have updated with modern faces and armors and since I got the royal carriage back then , which came with a King, I treat him as the King of the Lions Kingdom, and his small force as bodyguards. The massive army of Lion Knights and Crownies i have still fight for him but are led by nobles and vassals.

I don't believe i can ever amass a large enough force to have the king leading it personally, but to have his presence and several medium sized armies of "good guys" led by nobles works out much better in my mind. For example, my crownies force is led by a knight in the Crownie King's armor, but with a hairpiece instead of a crown, and same is true for the new lion Knights who are led by a noble clad in the Lion King's armor but wearing a new bucket helm, with a white plume.

As far as dragon knights, i treat them as an order representing an oligarchy of states; i have a ton of foot-soldiers, and about 10 mounted knights, but I also have the new wizard figure as a mounted figure with a shield and a viking ax, because I don't really buy that "magic" is viable in the new line, i treat these wizards as wealthy landlords and although they lead the force, they are not magical per say.

Depending on what comes out next year I might either be adding a third major faction to the world of Kingdoms, or making it into a subfaction of either Lions or Dragons.

I honestly don't think that grouping all of the factions into either a good guy, or bad guy category is possible or practical, especially considering how much Lego minifigures have evolved in the last 20 years, grouping old crusaders and new Lion knights is simply not aesthetically a good choice.

Even grouping old dragon Knights with new Dragon Knights is not something I would do. Plus it's far more interesting IMO to have many many factions who all have their needs and interests as opposed to 2 major ones. Just think historically and practically; when have there ever been coalitions big enough to encompass half the Kingdoms in Medieval Europe?

Edited August 5, 2010 by Sirens-Of-Titan

[songwm]

In my lego world, black falcon, crownies and the new kingdom lion knights are allies.

On the other hand, KK2 scorpion knights, the skellies, orcs and the new kingdom dragon knights are allies.

Hope that helps.

[Magnus the Great]

I do not have factions in the sense that they are necessarily enemies. I have several noble families who are part of a larger kingdom. Sometimes friends, sometimes enemies, always rivals. Simplified is one shield equal to one noble family. As a result, I have divided Crusaders in two arms but with a common ancestor. Same goes for Falcons and Scorpions. There are variations in culture and religion which creates tensions. For example, I regard Forestmen, Wolfpack, Scorpions, and the new Dragons as pagans while the Crusaders and the new Lions are Christians.

This is the current nobility in my Kingdom:

• Classic Castle with red/grey party per pale and blue border on the shield.
  
• Falcons with yellow border on the shield.
  
• Falcons with blue border on the shield.
  
• Crusaders with a blue background on the shield.
  
• Crusaders with a yellow background on the shield.
  
• Forestmen shield but with a Bulls torso from KK I.
  
• Wolfpack Renegades although they are not renegades in my empire. They are nobility.
  
• Scorpions with red/black shield.
  
• Scorpions with grey/black shield.
  
• Crownies rule! Imho the crown symbolizes their status and provides no room for other interpretations.
  
• Lion knights
  
• Dragon knights
  

I will do something with Jayko, Karzon and Kentis from KK II. Though I have doubts about their torsos.

[blueandwhite]

I'm not a big fan of dedicated factions. Lining up hundreds of clone troopers in a medieval setting just doesn't appeal to me. As Antoi mentioned, feudal society was made up of a large number of vassal lords, who along with lesser knights pledged their alegence to a monarch (while often fighting amongst themselves). There were no uniform armies in the middle ages, so I've never felt compelled to try and group my figures together as such. Even as a child I never found this idea difficult to understand. For me each heraldic crest represents a single lord's house. In situations where I have multiple horsemen carrying that shield, I regard them as men-at-arms rather than treating them as actual knights. Only the lord himself is a true knight.

Perhaps I'm mistaken but the idea of dedicated factions seems to be more popular amongst younger fans. When I was a child I found that LEGO didn't go to such great lengths to draw a distinction between supposed good and evil factions. In fact, prior to the late 90s minifigs always smiled regardless of what faction they belonged to. All of the pirates and wolfpack figures smiled just as much as their Imperial Soldier and Lion Knight counterparts did. With the original KKI, LEGO introduced a clearcut storyline with well defined heroes (King Leo?, Princess Storm? and Cedric the Bull???). The 'badguys' had glossy eyes and frowns while the heroic figures had stoic and determined faces. This has been pretty much constant for the last decade. It was almost as if LEGO needed to tell children who was good and who was bad. Now it seems that many fans are focused on creating clear-cut factions as well. I'm just not sure why everything needs to be so black and white.

[KotZ]

As others say, historically there were vassals and the king, and why not with LEGO? Here's how I place them

Good Army:

-My sigfig (in Medieval attire) as the King

-Crown knights work under him as his direct bodyguards

-The new Lion Knights are vassals

-Regular civilians to fight, ranging from old Star Wars torsos to Aang and Sokka.

-One Forestman as a Mercenary

-my 3 Jelly-Bellies as the front-line defense so they can be slaughtered first

-one wizard as my head general (but sometimes he works for my brother)

Bad Army:

-Scorpion knights, (including Vladek, the only cool KKII knight in my opinion)

-Skeleton warriors

-Orcs as mercenaries, but they would never fight for me

-a Firebender (but he uses a glaive) and a Fire Nation Soldier

-3 Dragon Knights (new ones)

But I feel that any of these factions can stand alone on their own, as well. Personally, I love the Dragon Knights and if I can get more, I'm making them my own personal bodyguards, or if I can get more Scorpion Knights.

[MCNwakeboard]

I only just started collecting Castle again after coming out of my dark age, so my collection of different factions is limited to just Crowns, Lions, and Dragons. My crownies are associated with the Lions as the town guards/tax collectors, but they don't really fight side by side with the Lion Soldiers.

Of course the dragons are on their own for the foreseeable future.

[Yeow]

I like to think of the crownies (I call them the Three Point Kingdom) as an alliance that was formed together between all the human factions to fight the unified threat of the skeletons and orcs. After they were defeated, the Three Point Kingdom split off into the Lion Knights and Dragon Knights due to differences. Going beyond Castle, the Lion Knights eventually became the Imperial Soldiers / Red coats as technology improved, since the Lion Knight in 7947 Prison Tower Rescue as the same face as the Admiral in the revamped Pirates line. Likewise, Dragon Knights evolved into Pirates, while the last of the Three Point Kingdom became the Spanish Armada and Blue Coats. I have yet to incorporate in any of my Castle sets from the 90's

[Bingo Little]

I've always grouped, for example, any factions with a dragon together, and assumed they're slight familial variations on the same crest, or something along those lines. I also like to use some of the newer armour with the old shields to create "remakes" of older soldiers - so Dragon Masters with the dark pearl dragon motif breast plate, or Black Falcons with morningstars...

But generally I tend to group troops with different shields as being on the same side - after all, the troops of many different Lords could ride together to war with the King. This makes crownies good as bodyguards, too.

I tend to use the bull shields, with some of the existant armour and some different armour, to look like saxon era troops or earlier Medieval ones. Probably it's those leather shields.

[horizon]

Heh,

I only group mine in Black Falcons vs Lion Knights.

Back to the '80's. haha