Is It Possible To Reintroduce Old Sets?

[SpacePolice89]

8 hours ago, Lion King said:

There are so many (and long) posts for me to read even tho it is only a few pages here. Nah to catching up.

I will throw my thoughts out anyways. 

I have been thinking lately…. I acutally preer Lego to come up with NEW designs for old themes, NOT remake (new design for old sets). I mean, somehting new and different that we never saw in old themes before, yet there could be some references from old sets. For example….Johnny Thunder discovers a new hidden tomb not in Egypt or in Amazon  rainforest. I don’t know how to describe that right. Maybe I have another example - some new spaceship for Classic Space? No remade spaceships. 

Aain, I am not sure if I describe it right…

I understand. New sets for old themes would be fantastic. Why not a huge base for M-Tron or a large Wolf Pack castle, I'd buy those in a heartbeat. At the same time reintroduced sets like the Legends line would also be cool, maybe one reintroduced set for every three or four new ones but I understand that the many discontinued molds would make that difficult.

[Mikdun]

On 9/12/2023 at 6:36 PM, Slegengr said:

Though I am sure that LEGO has self-motivated propaganda (...)

For background, I do not have extensive training in manufacturing, but I work as an engineer corresponding regularly with manufacturers, so I feel I have sufficient experience to make the claims and share the insights above.

Could not write it better myself. I'm actually working with tooling design and believe me, cheap tools are not precise.

It's classic management triangle.

[Slegengr]

4 hours ago, Mikdun said:

Could not write it better myself. I'm actually working with tooling design and believe me, cheap tools are not precise.

It's classic management triangle.

Indeed, that triangle is the optimization that all manufacturers and design engineers have to take into account.  Judging by the quality of LEGO pieces, tolerances of the molds are obviously very tight which is going to make them more expensive than molds for most other plastic toys that do not have or maybe need such tight tolerances.

I wonder how long TLG's molds last before degradation from use makes them too imprecise to pass quality assurance?  It would be interesting to know about how many new molds TLG buys each year on a regular basis.

[SpacePolice89]

Maybe they should reintroduce a theme or subtheme every year and keep the sets around for two years. Then there would be two classic themes available all the time. Half of the sets could be reproduced classics from the theme and the other half new sets with newer parts and building techniques. There would definitely be room for that in Lego's portfolio. For the first year they could release a full Black Falcons and Forestmen lineup and the next year do Pirates and Imperial Soldiers. On year three they could reintroduce Blacktron 2 and Ice Planet and the the Castle sets would retire and like this it would go on. If they really did it full scale there would be money to reintroduce classic parts that are not produced today. 

[MAB]

They already have classic town (as City) available. Who would these others be for? They would be going up against Ninjago and other in house themes if done as small sets for kids, and against the big sets for adults.

[SpacePolice89]

19 hours ago, MAB said:

They already have classic town (as City) available. Who would these others be for? They would be going up against Ninjago and other in house themes if done as small sets for kids, and against the big sets for adults.

That is not a valid point because of course all themes "compete" against each other. There are tons of small sets for both Star Wars and Ninjago to name a few themes. If they find room for 12!!! licensed themes they should easily be able to accommodate two classic themes + City and Ninjago as regulars on the unlicensed side. Big detailed sets such as the Galaxy Explorer and the Lion Knights Castle could easily be included in larger waves of Space and Castle.  

[MAB]

1 hour ago, SpacePolice89 said:

That is not a valid point because of course all themes "compete" against each other. There are tons of small sets for both Star Wars and Ninjago to name a few themes. If they find room for 12!!! licensed themes they should easily be able to accommodate two classic themes + City and Ninjago as regulars on the unlicensed side. Big detailed sets such as the Galaxy Explorer and the Lion Knights Castle could easily be included in larger waves of Space and Castle.  

It is valid, because there are aspects of classic themes in the main (and now huge, compared to the past) evergreen themes. Part of the reason they are huge seems to be because they have taken the place of short lived unlicensed themes.

Licenced themes tend not to compete with each other because fans of a franchise are not going to buy sets from another franchise, and LEGO tend not to have multiple similar licences. Whereas space has been catered for in City recently so to do space without competing against their other unlicensed space sets, they'd need to remove them from City for a period of time.

[SpacePolice89]

1 hour ago, MAB said:

Licenced themes tend not to compete with each other because fans of a franchise are not going to buy sets from another franchise, and LEGO tend not to have multiple similar licences.

Many of my friends have children and when they buy sets for them they just buy sets that look cool or interesting, they don't care if it's Star Wars, Marvel or Avatar. Sometimes the kids ask for specific sets and then it's often Ninjago. Of course the fans of the media franchises buy their own sets but I believe kids and their parents buy most of the sets that are sold. I have specifically asked them about their buying patterns. I often buy lots of random bricks in plastic bags at yard sales and when I sort the bricks I use to give away the bricks I don't need to friends' kids or to a local youth center where I used to work. Most of those parts belong to licensed themes but the kids build whatever they want with them and I've never heard them mention any specific media franchise.

[MAB]

1 hour ago, SpacePolice89 said:

Many of my friends have children and when they buy sets for them they just buy sets that look cool or interesting, they don't care if it's Star Wars, Marvel or Avatar. Sometimes the kids ask for specific sets and then it's often Ninjago.

In that case, LEGO wouldn't need to reintroduce any old sets or themes. If the public are buying sets just because they look cool and interesting, then there would be no need for themes at all. They could just stick the LEGO logo on the box and not need to have any link between sets. That LEGO decide to theme their range suggests that the wider buying public like to have some sort of help identifying which sets go well with other sets and also that brand or theme recognition works. If Little Timmy liked a Ninjago set in the past, then he'll probably like that other Ninjago set with a big futuristic motorbike. Whereas if he liked that Ninjago set, then he probably wouldn't like that same futuristic motorbike set with some other theme's branding on it. Ninjago wouldn't be as big if people were just randomly buying sets from across the portfolio because they look cool. Those Ninjas keep appearing in many different style sets because kids know who they are and presumably are more likely to buy into the sets than if LEGO stuck in some other random characters.

 

[SpacePolice89]

2 hours ago, MAB said:

In that case, LEGO wouldn't need to reintroduce any old sets or themes. If the public are buying sets just because they look cool and interesting, then there would be no need for themes at all. They could just stick the LEGO logo on the box and not need to have any link between sets. That LEGO decide to theme their range suggests that the wider buying public like to have some sort of help identifying which sets go well with other sets and also that brand or theme recognition works. If Little Timmy liked a Ninjago set in the past, then he'll probably like that other Ninjago set with a big futuristic motorbike. Whereas if he liked that Ninjago set, then he probably wouldn't like that same futuristic motorbike set with some other theme's branding on it. Ninjago wouldn't be as big if people were just randomly buying sets from across the portfolio because they look cool. Those Ninjas keep appearing in many different style sets because kids know who they are and presumably are more likely to buy into the sets than if LEGO stuck in some other random characters.

 

Of course kids and parents appreciate themes and subthemes and tend to like some more than others because of the style of the theme and what they depict. Most of them just don't care about the movies they are based on, at least among the people I've talked to.

[MAB]

7 minutes ago, SpacePolice89 said:

Of course kids and parents appreciate themes and subthemes and tend to like some more than others because of the style of the theme and what they depict. Most of them just don't care about the movies they are based on, at least among the people I've talked to.

Again, if that is the case- that most people are buying movie based sets even though they don't care about the movies - then it should not matter that LEGO are now devoting about 50% of their output to licensed sets.

 

[danth]

9 hours ago, MAB said:

Licenced themes tend not to compete with each other because fans of a franchise are not going to buy sets from another franchise, and LEGO tend not to have multiple similar licences.

Hmm I don't know about this. I think there is huge nerd crossover between SW and Marvel, and between Marvel and DC. It's all sci-fi with space ships and heroes with super abilities fighting bad guys.

Harry Potter might have less overlap though.

Then there's Avatar, but nobody cares about Avatar.

[SpacePolice89]

For most sets from the 80s and the 90s that could be reintroduced all colors are still available or something similar is (like bluish gray instead of regular gray), but what about the subthemes that uses trans neon orange or trans neon green? Are those colors still available? M-Tron, Blacktron 2, Robo Force, Ice Planet, Exploriens and Spyrius rely on those themes for important parts like canopies and visors. Maybe Spyrius and Exploriens could use trans blue visors instead but for the others it is impossible to recreate their style without those two colors. Do we have official confirmation that those colors are discontinued or will be? 

[MAB]

58 minutes ago, SpacePolice89 said:

For most sets from the 80s and the 90s that could be reintroduced all colors are still available or something similar is (like bluish gray instead of regular gray), but what about the subthemes that uses trans neon orange or trans neon green? Are those colors still available? M-Tron, Blacktron 2, Robo Force, Ice Planet, Exploriens and Spyrius rely on those themes for important parts like canopies and visors. Maybe Spyrius and Exploriens could use trans blue visors instead but for the others it is impossible to recreate their style without those two colors. Do we have official confirmation that those colors are discontinued or will be? 

There have been recent parts that bricklink recognizes as trans-neon green and trans-neon orange.  It is very rare that LEGO ever make an official statement about discontinuing or changing colours. Individual designers occasionally speak about it, but it is not an official statement on behalf of the company. It is more usual that users spot changes, or the colour codes or names in the lego online parts database change.

LEGO aren't bringing those themes back anyway, so it is hypothetical but if they wanted to bring them back as distinct themes and they didn't have the exact old colours necessary then they would probably just change the colour to whatever is closest. Or more likely, they would do just a similar theme but use modern designs and colours rather than try to recreate the old theme exactly. I doubt they would care that the colours don't match those of 30 years ago if placed side by side.

 

Edited September 19, 2023 by MAB

[SpacePolice89]

5 hours ago, MAB said:

There have been recent parts that bricklink recognizes as trans-neon green and trans-neon orange.  It is very rare that LEGO ever make an official statement about discontinuing or changing colours. Individual designers occasionally speak about it, but it is not an official statement on behalf of the company. It is more usual that users spot changes, or the colour codes or names in the lego online parts database change.

LEGO aren't bringing those themes back anyway, so it is hypothetical but if they wanted to bring them back as distinct themes and they didn't have the exact old colours necessary then they would probably just change the colour to whatever is closest. Or more likely, they would do just a similar theme but use modern designs and colours rather than try to recreate the old theme exactly. I doubt they would care that the colours don't match those of 30 years ago if placed side by side.

 

I agree that it's highly unlikely that they will bring them back but similar problems may arise with future one off sets in the same style as the Galaxy Explorer or the Blacktron Cruiser if they belong to one of the subthemes I mentioned earlier. For those two all the correct colors still exist and they only used the original colors and really tried to keep the colors and design language with more recent building techniques and parts. I remember seeing some picture last year of the official Lego color palette with an expiration date for one of the trans neon colors. BTW do any recently released sets (2023) have trans neon green or orange parts? 

[danth]

7 hours ago, MAB said:

I doubt they would care that the colours don't match those of 30 years ago if placed side by side.

I have a hard time telling old light gray and new light gray apart. I need to have them right next to each other with good lighting. I don't care at all that new Classic Space sets use new light gray.

So if they brought back Trans Neon Orange, but it was very slightly different, and you could only tell with good lighting and when pieces were next to each other, I wouldn't care too much. Hell, trans colors already don't match even when they're supposedly the same color.

But if they were like "Here's a Deep Freeze Defender remake with trans orange windscreens, close enough", there would be outrage.

[Xfing]

While it is definitely possible to emulate old, specialized moulds with modern bricks with no significant visual deviations, as proven by the 40370 Steam Engine, some of the parts no longer in production would be pretty hard to replace. Many "<insert that tiresome argument>" parts of the late 90s can be built without too much trouble with a combination of smaller pieces, but there are some that there's still just no replacement for. Talking for example about the Aquazone octagonal pontoon-like pieces. Those had a ton of character to be sure! They may have not been used in the best of ways in the sets of the time, ironically enough, but they could definitely be put to better use combined with today's new parts and techniques. Same goes for propeller casings, those may no longer play into modern LEGO's rounded look, but they were a great part that always felt satisfying to use. The moulds for these are definitely long gone, but if TLG ever wanted to do a tribute to Aquazone, today's technology would allow them to easily recreate the moulds for these pieces. Even 3d scanning would probably not be necessary, since those pieces and even older ones are still in LDD for example.

[danth]

34 minutes ago, Xfing said:

Many "<insert that tiresome argument>" parts of the late 90s

Can we get a mod/admin to fix this?

A discussion forum really shouldn't be censoring opinions like this.

[Xfing]

On 3/26/2024 at 5:27 PM, danth said:

Can we get a mod/admin to fix this?

A discussion forum really shouldn't be censoring opinions like this.

No worries, I just used the j-word" there, in quotes too for that matter. I was referring to specialized parts that can be easily built using smaller ones, such as https://rebrickable.com/parts/30200/cockpit-6-x-6-x-3-13-octagonal-canopy-base/

I personally don't take issue with parts like these. They can be tricky to build around, especially if one is after modern aesthetic standards, but it can be done.

 

[Peppermint_M]

On 3/26/2024 at 4:27 PM, danth said:

Can we get a mod/admin to fix this?

A discussion forum really shouldn't be censoring opinions like this.

Considering we instituted it because it really is a Tiresome Argument and we wanted people to maybe move past the kids toys being accessible to kids "issue", it is really doing its job. Censoring opinions it may be, but when it was the sum total of some people's arguments and they repeated them ad nauseum, the auto-filter really did its job of getting people to post considered and articulated arguments of their position instead of screeching Junior- at everything.

As a private platform, that is what EB can have if the admins wish. If any of the Admin think it is safe to remove the little bit of script, that might happen. 

[SpacePolice89]

On 3/29/2024 at 6:19 PM, Peppermint_M said:

Considering we instituted it because it really is a Tiresome Argument and we wanted people to maybe move past the kids toys being accessible to kids "issue", it is really doing its job. Censoring opinions it may be, but when it was the sum total of some people's arguments and they repeated them ad nauseum, the auto-filter really did its job of getting people to post considered and articulated arguments of their position instead of screeching Junior- at everything.

As a private platform, that is what EB can have if the admins wish. If any of the Admin think it is safe to remove the little bit of script, that might happen. 

Since we are all grown ups we should be able to discuss subjects such as junior ization without censoring opinions. I was still a kid in the late 90s and junioriz ation caused me to lose interest in new sets, especially Town sets. Of course everybody understand that Lego is primarily a product for kids but the complaints about junio.rization are usually about the sets being dumbed down to a level that they are only suitable for pre school children. It was such a major design change that it is a very relevant thing to discuss and have opinions about, both now and then.  

[Black Falcon]

17 minutes ago, SpacePolice89 said:

Since we are all grown ups we should be able to discuss subjects such as junior ization without censoring opinions. I was still a kid in the late 90s and junioriz ation caused me to lose interest in new sets, especially Town sets. Of course everybody understand that Lego is primarily a product for kids but the complaints about junio.rization are usually about the sets being dumbed down to a level that they are only suitable for pre school children. It was such a major design change that it is a very relevant thing to discuss and have opinions about, both now and then.  

Honestly, all beeing grown ups we should be able to word our concerns without using that word. How is this cencoring opinions? You can still decribe what you mean without using it. So yeah, that word is censored, but your opinion is not. 

Especially when you think it is so important to talk about it, it actually should be helpfull to make people describe what they don´t like, instead of just using that word and beeing done with it. ;)

[SpacePolice89]

3 minutes ago, Black Falcon said:

Honestly, all beeing grown ups we should be able to word our concerns without using that word. How is this cencoring opinions? You can still decribe what you mean without using it. So yeah, that word is censored, but your opinion is not. 

Especially when you think it is so important to talk about it, it actually should be helpfull to make people describe what they don´t like, instead of just using that word and beeing done with it. ;)

Imagine if the words "nostalgia" or "SNOT" would also be banned and everybody would have to describe them every time they would want to use it. Censorship is not good and it's pretty obvious that junioriz ation is the term for the dumbed down style that existed in the late 90s and early 00s. If many people dislike juniori zied sets it must be a reason behind it and it's much easier and more practical to use that word than to describe it every time.  

[Lion King]

I would love to see old sets being introduced into complex new fashion. In other word, something not too faithful something not too noglasic. For example, I got Blacktron Cruiser and Forest Hideout GWP. I really wanted to love them but I can’t. Something bothered me about them, just can’t put my finger on it. So I will sell them. I have unbuilt Galaxy Explorer and I’m not still sure if it’s worthy for me to build it. 

I would like ot see old sets being relmade competley. 

[JesseNight]

2 hours ago, SpacePolice89 said:

Since we are all grown ups we should be able to discuss subjects such as junior ization without censoring opinions. I was still a kid in the late 90s and junioriz ation caused me to lose interest in new sets, especially Town sets.

Now that I finally understand what was said...
Isn't this what most people would refer to as "growing out of it"? We all reach an age at some point where certain toys are no longer interesting and feel like either we're too old for it, or the toys are aimed at a much younger audience. As for dumbing down sets... I can only say things change and while we may not agree, we have little choice but to accept it.
The beauty of Lego was always that it targeted a very wide age range with different series. I loved town and space in childhood, at some point castles started tickling me, and later I got into more complex Technic builds. Then I grew out of it, only to return as an AFOL almost 3 decades later 

I'm not bothered by certain sets being targeted at a younger audience. I've just accepted that not all of it still appeals to me. So I focus on what still does. I value quality much more over quantity now.

@Black Falcon
The thing is that people who haven't been here as long have no clue what is being talked about. I'm not a native English speaker, but if this isn't a bad word and it's about people preferring not to hear it anymore, I feel censor is a rather harsh solution. We're all mature here, aren't we?

3 minutes ago, Lion King said:

I would love to see old sets being introduced into complex new fashion. In other word, something not too faithful something not too noglasic. For example, I got Blacktron Cruiser and Forest Hideout GWP. I really wanted to love them but I can’t. Something bothered me about them, just can’t put my finger on it. So I will sell them. I have unbuilt Galaxy Explorer and I’m not still sure if it’s worthy for me to build it. 

I would like ot see old sets being relmade competley. 

I feel you on the Blacktron Cruiser and the Forest Hideout (that I don't own but looked into).
But finish your Galaxy Explorer! I think it was well worth it and is in fact a complete remake!

Edited April 1 by JesseNight