LEGO Collectable Minifigures Series 25. Rumors and discussion

[SpacePolice89]

28 minutes ago, SamVimes said:

You can't just mash them into one blended homogenous pile.

That's what's being done with many toys and there's nothing wrong with it. It's impossible to demand complete accuracy from toys, No one cares if the uniforms of the Imperial Guards are not 100% period accurate and Lego Vikings have helmets with horns which real Vikings did not have (I'm Scandinavian and I don't care about if Vikings are looking historically incorrect because it is just supposed to be a fun toy) but as soon as it comes to non European factions people are so easily triggered by minor stuff. No one today can blame something that happened 200 years ago for their present situation.

[Karalora]

To think that the mistreatment of people of color in North America stopped 200 years ago, and/or that the policies of the past do not still have knock-on effects today...well, the kindest interpretation is that it's an extremely naive viewpoint.

If misrepresentations of medieval European cultures do not bother you...great! It's legitimately a good thing that the brutality of past centuries no longer harms the descendants of those people. It must be a big relief to you that no one is using the violence of the Vikings to stereotype modern Scandinavians (or white people overall) and justify depriving them of their civil rights.

But do you see how not everyone enjoys that privilege? Do you get that? Maybe you don't--you give your location as "Europe," so maybe you aren't aware of just how bad it still is over here, in many ways. The cruelties of the 1800s aren't something that we can just laugh off if we care about real people...if for no other reason than the fact that bigoted people are trying to sweep them under the rug so that they can drag us backward.

Back to speculating about LEGO sets...if TLG wants to make minifigures of Indigenous Americans, maybe a better context than "the Old West" would be a modern cultural festival, with people showing up in traditional tribal costumes such as the ones @SamVimes showcased on the last page. The designs would have to be simplified to some extent, but LEGO printing these days is well up to the task of illustrating the variety present in Indigenous art and design.

On the other hand, if they really wanted to dive into "the Old West" as a setting, maybe the nicest concept available would be a trading post, where white settlers and natives gather to barter goods with each other. No generic "cowboys and Indians"--give it an actual sense of place by portraying the natives as members of an actual tribe, with details of their costume and gear as accurate to the real culture as they can be manufactured.

[MAB]

On 9/24/2023 at 1:45 PM, cosmic said:

I think if the simple depiction of a culture offends someone then there is nothing more I can say. The way I see it is, I’m a white dude from a major city so I can easily make a cmf figure of myself with pieces I have. Wouldn’t an indigenous figure give someone from a different culture the opportunity to see themselves in their figures the way I see myself in some of mine? I’ll go back to what I said that if done respectfully there should be no issue.

There is an issue where headdresses or outfits are spiritual / religious / sacred / belief based. There is no respectful way to turn them into a toy. That is also why they stay away from religious subjects. 

[Lion King]

@Karalora, well said. I like yoru suggestions.  I never agree with cowboys vs Indians ideas myself. A Western setting where ingenious people and Old West civilians (cowboy or not) come together in harmony. I only like cowboys/sheriffs vs bandits. Take a look at Chief Seattle’s friendship with white people, icludiinge Doc, in 19th century. therefore the settlers named the tiny settlement in the honor of Chief Seattle. Both tribes and whites maintained freindly relations.  Although I am not very familiar but I am interesting in learning about that history. 

[SpacePolice89]

9 hours ago, Lion King said:

 I never agree with cowboys vs Indians ideas myself. A Western setting where ingenious people and Old West civilians (cowboy or not) come together in harmony. I only like cowboys/sheriffs vs bandits.

That sounds exactly like the Western theme from the 90s where the bandits were the bad guys and also like a good idea. I always considered the Indians a good guy faction in Western. But speaking of collectible minifigures, if they ever do Western themed minifigs again maybe they could do very realistic Native American outfits since many seem to be interested in that approach? For a regular theme I prefer a more generic approach but in CMF more realistic outfits could work and maybe portray different tribes and include some information with the minifigure like a collectible card with information and history about the culture that is depicted. This approach could actually work with any culture in any country. 

[Black Falcon]

8 hours ago, SpacePolice89 said:

That sounds exactly like the Western theme from the 90s where the bandits were the bad guys and also like a good idea. I always considered the Indians a good guy faction in Western. But speaking of collectible minifigures, if they ever do Western themed minifigs again maybe they could do very realistic Native American outfits since many seem to be interested in that approach? For a regular theme I prefer a more generic approach but in CMF more realistic outfits could work and maybe portray different tribes and include some information with the minifigure like a collectible card with information and history about the culture that is depicted. This approach could actually work with any culture in any country. 

Well they also had Indians back then, but actually there were never Indians and Cowboy/Army in the same Set. So yeah, you could say Lego was already quite progressive at that time. I had or better still I still have some of the sets and actually never even thought about this fact. When you look at Knight themes you almost always have some good and some bad guys in those sets.

[SamVimes]

On 9/25/2023 at 2:18 PM, Lion King said:

@Karalora, well said. I like yoru suggestions.  I never agree with cowboys vs Indians ideas myself. A Western setting where ingenious people and Old West civilians (cowboy or not) come together in harmony. I only like cowboys/sheriffs vs bandits. Take a look at Chief Seattle’s friendship with white people, icludiinge Doc, in 19th century. therefore the settlers named the tiny settlement in the honor of Chief Seattle. Both tribes and whites maintained freindly relations.  Although I am not very familiar but I am interesting in learning about that history. 

My dude! "A Western setting where ingenious people and Old West civilians (cowboy or not) come together in harmony." So a fictional world then? Because it's that or you're just supporting revisionism.

Much like "Chief Seattle’s friendship with white people" Chief Seattle isn't exactly who you should be holding up as some sort of ideal.

If you want some history of why this is a myth, William Abruzzi is a solid start chrome-extension://efaidnbmnnnibpcajpcglclefindmkaj/https://www.humanecologyreview.org/pastissues/her71/71abruzzi.pdf

 

[cosmic]

Okay so here is what I will say. I agree that Indigenous communities can be represented not just in classic Western settings, but in modern, Eastern and standalone settings (like perhaps.. a CMF figure with no builds besides the figure itself!!). The fact of the matter is when you’re so upset by any attempts to depict Native American figures, the company may choose to just avoid them altogether. Is this what anyone wants? I would hope not. So the question I feel turns to, how do we depict them respectfully. I agree with @SamVimes that choosing to have Cowboys and Natives frolic in the meadows is a bit disingenuous and revisionist. I suggest sets where its just natives and canoes, or encampments, or farmers sets where its Native figures growing corn and such to depict historically relevant and respectful imagery for these cultures. I think due to the touchy history cowboys should just not be in a set with natives at all. But if you’re too offended by natives canoeing and farming and appearing in cmf figures just representing for their people, then it almost sounds like you don’t want us to get native figures. Which would leave them excluded because like it or not Lego IS depicting other cultures in their sets. Like it or not we HAVE Chinese New Year sets, we have classic Viking sets and cmf figures, same for some Pacific Islander figures (classic pirates and modern cmf figures), we’ve gotten Kabuki girls (CMF Series 4), Bavarian girl/boy and so on. Like it or not Lego depicting various cultures has been happening and likely will continue. As it should! I hope everyone gets a figure that speaks to them eventually

 

But if we can’t depict Natives just existing in a cmf figure, and we can’t depict them just living their life in a set, no arrows, no stereotypes, no war just simply natives existing in a set or a figure, if all that really bothers you then we end up unable to get Natives at all due to them being seen as an extremely touchy  subject. And in a way, this kind of contributes to the “erasing” of their culture. Thats all I’m gonna say for now but I think this discussion is important. Thanks everyone for being civil so far :)

[SamVimes]

11 hours ago, cosmic said:

Okay so here is what I will say. I agree that Indigenous communities can be represented not just in classic Western settings, but in modern, Eastern and standalone settings (like perhaps.. a CMF figure with no builds besides the figure itself!!). The fact of the matter is when you’re so upset by any attempts to depict Native American figures, the company may choose to just avoid them altogether. Is this what anyone wants? I would hope not. So the question I feel turns to, how do we depict them respectfully. I agree with @SamVimes that choosing to have Cowboys and Natives frolic in the meadows is a bit disingenuous and revisionist. I suggest sets where its just natives and canoes, or encampments, or farmers sets where its Native figures growing corn and such to depict historically relevant and respectful imagery for these cultures. I think due to the touchy history cowboys should just not be in a set with natives at all. But if you’re too offended by natives canoeing and farming and appearing in cmf figures just representing for their people, then it almost sounds like you don’t want us to get native figures. Which would leave them excluded because like it or not Lego IS depicting other cultures in their sets. Like it or not we HAVE Chinese New Year sets, we have classic Viking sets and cmf figures, same for some Pacific Islander figures (classic pirates and modern cmf figures), we’ve gotten Kabuki girls (CMF Series 4), Bavarian girl/boy and so on. Like it or not Lego depicting various cultures has been happening and likely will continue. As it should! I hope everyone gets a figure that speaks to them eventually

 

But if we can’t depict Natives just existing in a cmf figure, and we can’t depict them just living their life in a set, no arrows, no stereotypes, no war just simply natives existing in a set or a figure, if all that really bothers you then we end up unable to get Natives at all due to them being seen as an extremely touchy  subject. And in a way, this kind of contributes to the “erasing” of their culture. Thats all I’m gonna say for now but I think this discussion is important. Thanks everyone for being civil so far :)

You aren't wrong with some of the ideas, I mean indigenous farming isn't the same as western. As for standalone in CMF's, I think LEGO could easily bring in representatives from each nation to advise, and then they get a whole bunch of designs.

"Chinese New Year sets, we have classic Viking sets and cmf figures, same for some Pacific Islander figures (classic pirates and modern cmf figures), we’ve gotten Kabuki girls (CMF Series 4), Bavarian girl/boy and so on."

Hitting these one at a time;

Chinese New year sets are well-researched and celebrations are fairly common even in the West.

Vikings sets take some liberties, but over all are accurate to mythology, which is mostly what people know, but it is ancient history. 

I also feel Polynesian cultures should also be approached given the reductive and insulting way they have been represented so far. It's not like this is hidden information after all. 

Kabuki is an art form. The Kimono Girl CMF is culturally accurate. 

 

The depiction of a culture that had an aggressive and focused effort to erase it, exists nowhere else in the world. North America is unique in that. https://www.canada.ca/en/canadian-heritage/campaigns/national-day-truth-reconciliation.html

It might be uncomfortable for them to talk about/with but the TLG are attempting strides in representation. 

 

[Black Falcon]

14 hours ago, cosmic said:

Okay so here is what I will say. I agree that Indigenous communities can be represented not just in classic Western settings, but in modern, Eastern and standalone settings (like perhaps.. a CMF figure with no builds besides the figure itself!!).

Well for CMF Series it won´t matter that much, but when it comes to Sets I am pretty sure if they would do sets it would be about the traditional life. In the end that is what the costumers would be looking for. So in the end, a little Villiage/Camp with some tipis, some indians, horses. Add two buffalos to it and you got the perfect set IMO.

2 hours ago, SamVimes said:

The depiction of a culture that had an aggressive and focused effort to erase it, exists nowhere else in the world. North America is unique in that.

I wouldn´t agree with that statement. The way of depiction as a toy might be unique especially in its amount, but you can´t really say there was no depiction at all for other cultures...

[hikouki]

Let's just have United Nations!!! LOL

I really think Lego should make something for UN Day (I guess too soon for this year as it will already be in a couple weeks), and feature various countries in some of their iconic costumes, same way as the pretzel couple, kimono girl and the keychain china girl.

[Hippocampe]

17 minutes ago, hikouki said:

Let's just have United Nations!!! LOL

I really think Lego should make something for UN Day (I guess too soon for this year as it will already be in a couple weeks), and feature various countries in some of their iconic costumes, same way as the pretzel couple, kimono girl and the keychain china girl.

What a nice idea ! I’ll vote for that motion 🇨🇦

[Lion King]

2 hours ago, hikouki said:

Let's just have United Nations!!! LOL

I really think Lego should make something for UN Day (I guess too soon for this year as it will already be in a couple weeks), and feature various countries in some of their iconic costumes, same way as the pretzel couple, kimono girl and the keychain china girl.

I think we had United Nations HQ from Architecture theme some years ago. 

But I like your idea!!

[hikouki]

3 hours ago, Hippocampe said:

What a nice idea ! I’ll vote for that motion 🇨🇦

 

2 hours ago, Lion King said:

I think we had United Nations HQ from Architecture theme some years ago. 

But I like your idea!!

I think Lego could churn something out every year for October release (UN Day) and even come up with a minifig series of its own!!!

[Breakspear]

On 10/2/2023 at 7:44 AM, hikouki said:

Let's just have United Nations!!! LOL

I really think Lego should make something for UN Day (I guess too soon for this year as it will already be in a couple weeks), and feature various countries in some of their iconic costumes, same way as the pretzel couple, kimono girl and the keychain china girl.

I think this idea would work well as a themed series.

At a rough estimate, there have only been about 15 or so CMFs that could be thought of as representing aspects of conteporary nations/cultures (e.g. the Royal Guard, the Geisha, the Lederhosen Guy, the Flamenco Dancer, the Bagpiper, the Mariarchi etc). This compares with the nearly 50 or so food/animal suit CMFs, and 40+ sport/recreation themed CMFs. So lots of scope for Lego to more in this space.

[Lion King]

A few sets have some leaked info,such as Natural History Museum and Medieval Market Village, for 2024. 

We will see about CMF Series 25’s list later. 

[iluvspacepolice]

I would love to see a series based off classic lego themes. The Minifigs that I most want to see remade would be.

King Kahuka from Islanders

Basil The Bat Lord from Fright Nights. 

An a bandit based of the Western theme.

  

Edited October 9, 2023 by iluvspacepolice

[Robert8]

4 minutes ago, iluvspacepolice said:

I heard Its a space series

That would be the May 2025 series

This thread is to talk about CMF S25, which comes out next January 1st :)

[iluvspacepolice]

Just now, Robert8 said:

That would be the May 2025 series

This thread is to talk about CMF S25, which comes out next January 1st :)

Thanks, My bad

[Lion King]

On 10/8/2023 at 9:13 PM, Robert8 said:

That would be the May 2025 series

This thread is to talk about CMF S25, which comes out next January 1st :)

May 2024, not 2025. :)

[Lion King]

49 minutes ago, hikouki said:

Given that the Medieval Village will return, and with the much anticipated goat, do you guys think we have a real chance of getting a goat-related character in the CMF?

 

19 minutes ago, Borex said:

No, i think it will reappear in the set and get a new animal in the cmf series

 

15 minutes ago, Classic_Spaceman said:

Maybe? The lute mould (in fact, all parts aside from the legs and plume!) appeared in the CMF bard before also being used in the Lion Knights' Castle, so I can see a Medieval goatherd CMF with a torso and goat that get reused in the village. 
 

 

[Robert8]

I dont know if this relevant but I found a site that has a dark red box (I mean the new individual minifig box) for this CMF

Its probably a stand-in, but one would think that the Marvel dark blue one would be used for that. I mean, its the only one that exists so far (other than the S19 test but that one was lime green)

[Lion King]

2 hours ago, Robert8 said:

I dont know if this relevant but I found a site that has a dark red box (I mean the new individual minifig box) for this CMF

Its probably a stand-in, but one would think that the Marvel dark blue one would be used for that. I mean, its the only one that exists so far (other than the S19 test but that one was lime green)

Which site you found?

Edited October 18, 2023 by Lion King
Typo

[Robert8]

43 minutes ago, Lion King said:

Which site you found?

I dont know if this means anything

https://uniekebricks.nl/lego-minifigures/lego-71045/

[Lion King]

15 hours ago, Robert8 said:

I dont know if this means anything

https://uniekebricks.nl/lego-minifigures/lego-71045/

Thanks for the link. I was just curious about that - Yeah i don’t think it means anything at the moment. 

However, I think dark red would be great since we had one red color in ages.