Lego Icons 10332 Medieval Town Square Discussion Thread

[Alexandrina]

On 6/22/2023 at 12:26 AM, zoth33 said:

Also they made those oversized ants and only used those in 2 sets so I don't get the justification for saying they need to fit it in the budget as Lego can clearly do that with the goat which can be used in multiple sets across different themes.

They made the ant mould before they made the original goat mould, so the ant doesn't really work as a comparison

[zoth33]

6 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

They made the ant mould before they made the original goat mould, so the ant doesn't really work as a comparison

You're missing the point I'm saying they make molds that only go into one or 2 sets like the ants.  I'm saying you can easily incorporate the goat into a variety of themes.  

[Alexandrina]

37 minutes ago, zoth33 said:

You're missing the point I'm saying they make molds that only go into one or 2 sets like the ants.  I'm saying you can easily incorporate the goat into a variety of themes.  

But the point I'm making is that the ant mould was introduced fifteen years ago. Lego clearly didn't have problems making single-use animal moulds back then, or when the goat was introduced, but that doesn't mean the policy holds true today.

Now as it happens I think they will absolutely release the goat and they're saving it for a set like this because they know of its status among fans, but the company's policies a decade and a half ago can't be taken as proof that the same policies apply today.

[Lyichir]

I think it's silly to point to the ants anyway because I wouldn't exactly consider a limited-use mold for a mediocre Indiana Jones movie an example of a good investment.

And that's really what the deciding factor is as to whether Lego introduces a mold—not just how much use they plan to get out of it but also whether that investment pays off in the first place by motivating sales.

[Sir Dano]

The goat mould was introduced 12 years ago, can't say I see much difference.

[zoth33]

4 hours ago, Lyichir said:

I think it's silly to point to the ants anyway because I wouldn't exactly consider a limited-use mold for a mediocre Indiana Jones movie an example of a good investment.

And that's really what the deciding factor is as to whether Lego introduces a mold—not just how much use they plan to get out of it but also whether that investment pays off in the first place by motivating sales.

Once again you people don't understand.  If my point is silly then wouldn't yours be also.  And then why are we even talking about it.  All I am saying is lego can do whatever the hell they want they are the biggest toy company in the world and have the ability and means to make molds like the goat, and even make new molds for sets like the new city sets which are getting really expensive.  It doesn't make sense to say that it's not in the budget they obviously can make it work if they wanted too.  

[RichardGoring]

31 minutes ago, zoth33 said:

It doesn't make sense to say that it's not in the budget they obviously can make it work if they wanted too.  

Correct. In the last few years they haven't wanted to do it enough. It would eat into their profits too much, it would take too long, it would draw resources away from other things they deemed to be more important, or something else. They didn't want to do it enough, so they didn't do it.

Their motivation may change in the future. And something like a Medieval Village set might provide sufficient motivation (in whatever form) to do it.

[zoth33]

1 minute ago, RichardGoring said:

Correct. In the last few years they haven't wanted to do it enough. It would eat into their profits too much, it would take too long, it would draw resources away from other things they deemed to be more important, or something else. They didn't want to do it enough, so they didn't do it.

Their motivation may change in the future. And something like a Medieval Village set might provide sufficient motivation (in whatever form) to do it.

I get it their profits are quite enough.  They have the revenue to do whatever the hell they want.  They make Billions they have the means to get things done look they are making new animal molds like it's going out of style.  I just find it odd everyones justification for it is monetary when they obviously can spend it on 1 mold.  And making that mold will not break their profits at all.  

[MAB]

13 hours ago, zoth33 said:

It doesn't make sense to say that it's not in the budget they obviously can make it work if they wanted too.  

Sure they can make one new single or low use  part and it won't dent their profits. But they can't make 100s of parts like that. That has caused issues in the past and I doubt they'd make the same mistake again even though their profits are larger now. Then the issue is whether a new goat beats a new (insert other part here).

[RichardGoring]

12 hours ago, zoth33 said:

I get it their profits are quite enough.  They have the revenue to do whatever the hell they want.  They make Billions they have the means to get things done look they are making new animal molds like it's going out of style.  I just find it odd everyones justification for it is monetary when they obviously can spend it on 1 mold.  And making that mold will not break their profits at all.  

Yes, it won't break their profits, but it will reduce them. They've clearly done the calculation that, in their opinion/data analysis, they've got the best balance between the need for new elements to optimize their sales, and the cost of new elements (moulds, design resource, production capacity, storage, logistics etc.). I'm not trying to justify it. It's very likely a commercial decision they've made. It could be a laziness thing, but I doubt it.

[Roebuck]

2 hours ago, MAB said:

Then the issue is whether a new goat beats a new (insert other part here).

It clearly did not beat the new part in the 90 year castle The question is if that was because the designers working on it do not have much interest in animal moulds and used the opportunity to make a new "building-part" instead or if they knew this set was coming and it fitted perfectly with the medieval village?

There is a lamb in the castle that took the place of a cat in the last minutes so a similar question here why did they include a single lamb? Was it because they stumbled upon the new farm animals in City released previously that year and used the opportunity to include a new lamb and cow (strange since the cow has a cart etc and looks to be included earlier in the proses while the lamb seem more of an afterthought) or is it because the lamb fit nicely with the two sheep in the village set down the line?

[RichardGoring]

10 minutes ago, Roebuck said:

It clearly did not beat the new part in the 90 year castle The question is if that was because the designers working on it do not have much interest in animal moulds and used the opportunity to make a new "building-part" instead or if they knew this set was coming and it fitted perfectly with the medieval village?

There is a lamb in the castle that took the place of a cat in the last minutes so a similar question here why did they include a single lamb? Was it because they stumbled upon the new farm animals in City released previously that year and used the opportunity to include a new lamb and cow (strange since the cow has a cart etc and looks to be included earlier in the proses while the lamb seem more of an afterthought) or is it because the lamb fit nicely with the two sheep in the village set down the line?

They have said that one of the concepts included a village and they built it. They could well have realized that it was perfect to split into two sets and moved the animals around accordingly.

[zoth33]

10 minutes ago, Roebuck said:

It clearly did not beat the new part in the 90 year castle The question is if that was because the designers working on it do not have much interest in animal moulds and used the opportunity to make a new "building-part" instead or if they knew this set was coming and it fitted perfectly with the medieval village?

There is a lamb in the castle that took the place of a cat in the last minutes so a similar question here why did they include a single lamb? Was it because they stumbled upon the new farm animals in City released previously that year and used the opportunity to include a new lamb and cow (strange since the cow has a cart etc and looks to be included earlier in the proses while the lamb seem more of an afterthought) or is it because the lamb fit nicely with the two sheep in the village set down the line?

Exactly if they can fit the lamb in here and yes I know the mold is already out.   Then why don't they just make the mold for the goat they can use it in the city sets, even Ninjago, MK etc.  No one here has come up with a solid argument for the fact they keep making new animal molds all over the place and even a lot of new plant molds that they can't make the goat mold.  Roebuck i agree with you.  

3 hours ago, MAB said:

Sure they can make one new single or low use  part and it won't dent their profits. But they can't make 100s of parts like that. That has caused issues in the past and I doubt they'd make the same mistake again even though their profits are larger now. Then the issue is whether a new goat beats a new (insert other part here).

 

2 hours ago, RichardGoring said:

Yes, it won't break their profits, but it will reduce them. They've clearly done the calculation that, in their opinion/data analysis, they've got the best balance between the need for new elements to optimize their sales, and the cost of new elements (moulds, design resource, production capacity, storage, logistics etc.). I'm not trying to justify it. It's very likely a commercial decision they've made. It could be a laziness thing, but I doubt it.

The Orca comes in a $160 set.  There is no way your telling me they are going to loose money by making a goat mold they can easily use in other themes.  With that said where would be the justification for the Orca mold it would eat into their profits by this logic.  That set should be $200 then.  But since the set is only $160 that tells me they can make pretty much whatever mold they want.  The Brachiosaurus mold is in an $80 set, if they can do this in a licensed theme they can make a goat.  

[Alexandrina]

31 minutes ago, zoth33 said:

No one here has come up with a solid argument for the fact they keep making new animal molds all over the place and even a lot of new plant molds that they can't make the goat mold.

The goat has legendary status among AFOLs because of its limited run. Lego know this - if they're bringing the goat back then it makes sense to do it with a bang, and get people talking about the goat.

(Also, the influx of animal moulds has only come in the last few years; if we assume that the village is coming next year, it would have been conceptualised early in the period of adding new animals. Even earlier if it was part of the original design of the Lion Knights Castle.)

It could be the case that internally Lego know the goat is coming imminently. Because they know the goat is coming imminently, they're not rushing to put out a small City set containing it.

35 minutes ago, zoth33 said:

The Orca comes in a $160 set.  There is no way your telling me they are going to loose money by making a goat mold they can easily use in other themes.  With that said where would be the justification for the Orca mold it would eat into their profits by this logic.  That set should be $200 then.  But since the set is only $160 that tells me they can make pretty much whatever mold they want.  The Brachiosaurus mold is in an $80 set, if they can do this in a licensed theme they can make a goat.  

I don't follow your logic here. Why does a set being £160 rather than £200 mean Lego can make as many moulds as they like?

It's well known that they have budgets for new moulds (divided by theme). They decided to use some of the City budget for the Orca, some of the Jurassic Park budget for the Brachiosaurus.

[Lion King]

Or a medevideal minifigure with a goat from a next regular CMF series would accompany this set next year? It’s my guess. 

[Black Feather]

Think you all are overthinking about the goat.  Doubt LEGO has been sitting around carefully analyzing whether to make a goat for years only to decide not to.  More likely they make hundreds of sets with thousands of parts and just haven’t given it much thought.  So probably not due to any kind of cost benefit analysis.  My wild guess is that it came up during the castle design and they decided to save it for the village that was originally cut from the castle and decided to be released later if at all since it would appeal to segment of the castle fans who are so enthusiastic about it.  Personally, I don’t care much about the goat.  Would prefer a new forestman torso, a double axe torso, even another color horse just to throw out a few.  But not begrudging the goat fans.  I think it’s coming.  And happy for those who are waiting.  If it’s not ridiculous on PAB I will even get some extras.

[zoth33]

2 hours ago, Alexandrina said:

The goat has legendary status among AFOLs because of its limited run. Lego know this - if they're bringing the goat back then it makes sense to do it with a bang, and get people talking about the goat.

(Also, the influx of animal moulds has only come in the last few years; if we assume that the village is coming next year, it would have been conceptualised early in the period of adding new animals. Even earlier if it was part of the original design of the Lion Knights Castle.)

It could be the case that internally Lego know the goat is coming imminently. Because they know the goat is coming imminently, they're not rushing to put out a small City set containing it.

I don't follow your logic here. Why does a set being £160 rather than £200 mean Lego can make as many moulds as they like?

It's well known that they have budgets for new moulds (divided by theme). They decided to use some of the City budget for the Orca, some of the Jurassic Park budget for the Brachiosaurus.

My argument there is that people are saying the mold is expensive to make.  If thats the case the Orca mold would be more expensive yet it is in a $160 set and people on here are saying lego can't fit the goat in a set because of budget reasons.  Yet lego just made a Brachiosaurus in an 80 dollar set and the orca is in a set $160.  So the goat mold can't be that expensive to make.  Look they just put baby seals in a $10 set.  My point is they can obviously make the goat mold if they want and even fit it in a cheap set if they are making baby seals for a $10 and like I said the orca set is actually cheaper than I thought considering the size of the new mold.   Peoples reasoning seems to be around the cost of the mold when it's clear lego is making new molds and incorporating some of them in cheaper sets and even the big expensive molds aren't in sets that are that expensive.  So I'm saying they by certain people logic on here that $160 orca set should be more expensive since the mold should be more expensive, especially when their argument is the goat mold is so expensive to make.  

[Alexandrina]

1 hour ago, zoth33 said:

My argument there is that people are saying the mold is expensive to make.  If thats the case the Orca mold would be more expensive yet it is in a $160 set and people on here are saying lego can't fit the goat in a set because of budget reasons.  Yet lego just made a Brachiosaurus in an 80 dollar set and the orca is in a set $160.  So the goat mold can't be that expensive to make.  Look they just put baby seals in a $10 set.  My point is they can obviously make the goat mold if they want and even fit it in a cheap set if they are making baby seals for a $10 and like I said the orca set is actually cheaper than I thought considering the size of the new mold.   Peoples reasoning seems to be around the cost of the mold when it's clear lego is making new molds and incorporating some of them in cheaper sets and even the big expensive molds aren't in sets that are that expensive.  So I'm saying they by certain people logic on here that $160 orca set should be more expensive since the mold should be more expensive, especially when their argument is the goat mold is so expensive to make.  

Moulds are expensive to make. And yes, Lego can afford to make a new mould, no trouble, but they can't afford to make unlimited new moulds (and there's not a pot for animals alone; every new part is eating from that budget). I don't know the ins and outs of why Lego make certain animals in certain sets, but there is logic to it. (Brachiosaurus is a separate case; licensed sets have to represent the license they're based off, so Lego have to make dinosaurs for the Jurassic Park sets)

The baby seals are in a cheap set that is going to sell at large volume; they don't need to recoup so much of the cost of the mould per set, as they'll be selling thousands upon thousands. More expensive sets don't sell as many (that's not to say they're bad sellers, but there aren't as many people who can afford a £300 set as can afford a £15 set) so there's less room to put unnecessary moulds in.

[zoth33]

7 minutes ago, Alexandrina said:

Moulds are expensive to make. And yes, Lego can afford to make a new mould, no trouble, but they can't afford to make unlimited new moulds (and there's not a pot for animals alone; every new part is eating from that budget). I don't know the ins and outs of why Lego make certain animals in certain sets, but there is logic to it. (Brachiosaurus is a separate case; licensed sets have to represent the license they're based off, so Lego have to make dinosaurs for the Jurassic Park sets)

The baby seals are in a cheap set that is going to sell at large volume; they don't need to recoup so much of the cost of the mould per set, as they'll be selling thousands upon thousands. More expensive sets don't sell as many (that's not to say they're bad sellers, but there aren't as many people who can afford a £300 set as can afford a £15 set) so there's less room to put unnecessary moulds in.

I understand the economics of it.  So you think baby seals are going to sell more than goats?   I know molds are expensive to make.  I'm saying obviously the orca mold is more expensive than the goat mold, so unless your telling me all molds cost the same there is a difference.  Even you just said they could easily make the mold, then why not when it's so popular and yet they keep cranking out new molds.  Explain to me how they made the sheep mold recently and why couldn't just make the goat mold and throw it in a city farm set like they did with the sheep.  They literally put a koala bear mold in the cmf.  They make new molds all the time all I'm saying is they can make the goat it's not like there is some mystical force field around the goat that is preventing them from making it.  

[Lion King]

1 hour ago, Black Feather said:

Think you all are overthinking about the goat. 

Not ALL of us overthinking, sir.  

I like making wild guesses but won’t go into debates about ant or goat or something. 

[jodawill]

This thread is funny. I've never seen so many comments accomplishing so little. It seems like everyone just keeps writing the same things over and over again. 

[zoth33]

Just now, jodawill said:

This thread is funny. I've never seen so many comments accomplishing so little. It seems like everyone just keeps writing the same things over and over again. 

Yeah I'm all done with this.  I don't care anymore.  Goats will either be made or not.  

[Lion King]

32 minutes ago, zoth33 said:

Yeah I'm all done with this.  I don't care anymore.  Goats will either be made or not.  

Agreed. Lego is 100% unpredictable. 

[RichardGoring]

1 hour ago, zoth33 said:

I understand the economics of it.  So you think baby seals are going to sell more than goats?   I know molds are expensive to make.  I'm saying obviously the orca mold is more expensive than the goat mold, so unless your telling me all molds cost the same there is a difference.  Even you just said they could easily make the mold, then why not when it's so popular and yet they keep cranking out new molds.  Explain to me how they made the sheep mold recently and why couldn't just make the goat mold and throw it in a city farm set like they did with the sheep.  They literally put a koala bear mold in the cmf.  They make new molds all the time all I'm saying is they can make the goat it's not like there is some mystical force field around the goat that is preventing them from making it.  

Yes, baby seals are going to sell more than goats. By a long, long way. That said, you could also claim that it's irrelevant. LEGO hasn't made a new goat mould and are not interested enough to make one. Any logic they may or may not use doesn't change that they haven't made one. They may in the future. They also may finally do a proper, modern parrot or crab. But I can only hope. So far, they haven't. We are out of luck.

1 hour ago, jodawill said:

This thread is funny. I've never seen so many comments accomplishing so little. It seems like everyone just keeps writing the same things over and over again. 

Oh I think we can keep it up for a few more pages yet... 

1 hour ago, zoth33 said:

Yeah I'm all done with this.  I don't care anymore.  Goats will either be made or not.  

Correct! 

[Khargeust]

My point is : LEGO is a bit sadistic and they are waiting to release this large and pricy set to include the new goat to maximize their profit. They want to ride the popularity of the castle to make it available but don't want to wait for potential new buyers to buy both sets. I imagine a summer 2024 release would be the perfect timing.

But maybe I'm all wrong because we saw Pirates of Barracuda Bay disappear so early (less than 18 months), and now Eldorado Fortress has just launched, making the former set very desirable and therefore sought after, which does not bother LEGO a priori...

Edited July 13, 2023 by Khargeust