Trains and Ideas

[Modeltrainman]

So, I was very recently told that a train won't make it through IDEAS, ever. Why is this? Trains are historical, and people love history. Space now longer seems as futuristic, at least to me. If so many people want rockets, which are now historical, what stops a train? Expense? Do people not like trains? Just curious. I'm interested in IDEAS, as I think it's a great platform, but seeing mostly space pass confuses me.

[UrbanErwin]

My best guess? 

1) trains are really regional, for example just within Western Europe there are a dozen of different companies and models whichh run around. Combine that with the Americans complain TLC models look too European and Europeans complaining they look too American. (and now we've forgotten the Asian and oceanic part of the world) 

2) space and spacecraft are a symbol of the future and innovation (even though the moonlanding happend while parts of the world still relaid on steam traction), this means they are more appealing to a general audience. 

3) spacecraft have something mythical about them that something as mundane as the thing you use at your daily commute just has not.

But these are just my quick speculations based on no facts or research, which I guess TLC has done extensively. 

So to phrase this bluntly, no people do not like trains, at least not as much as space (or movies, etc ) 

 

Edited September 18, 2019 by UrbanErwin

[Mr Hobbles]

There was an interview with Jamie Berard, Design Manager at Lego, which stated simply: 1. Trains themselves don't sell as well as they like, outside of your basic City trains. 2. To make a Creator Expert train sell, it needs to be tied in with something else to give it appeal. See Hogwarts Express, Winter Village Train and Disney Train.

Here's is the interview: https://www.bricksforbricks.com/blog/2019/3/13/so-thats-why-we-havent-seen-more-creator-expert-trains

Edited September 18, 2019 by Mr Hobbles

[zephyr1934]

And on the flip side, that is probably why we are seeing Hogwarts, Lone Ranger, Disneyland, and holiday trains- Lego wants to make trains and so they are getting them out in forms that will appeal to non-train people too.

[dr_spock]

Your train based IDEA would have to have a bigger "reach" than a UP Big Boy to make it.  It is not impossible but require much more effort.

[Hod Carrier]

The moon landings may now be part of our history, but it was a global event. As such, the Saturn V has a global reach in the way that any specific train does not and I will not be surprised in the slightest if it turns out to be the most successful Ideas set for quite some time to come.

My own feelings about trains on Ideas have already been expounded in the past but basically reflect the views expressed by the other contributors so far. That's not to say that no train will ever succeed on Ideas, but the bar is set very high indeed. For me, part of the problem is that Ideas is set up to uncover new original ideas not derivative designs, and sadly a lot of trains-related ideas are going to be derivative. We've already had official sets covering steam, diesel, electric, high-speed trains, trams and monorails covering both US-esque and Euro-esque designs. There really isn't much left to cover and any train will inevitably be a derivation of something we've seen before.

That said, I'd like someone to be able to break through and come up with a really decent train model in the style of the Saturn V. I think there's room for one; something like a large model of something iconic and internationally recognised, like Stephenson's Rocket, an American 4-4-0 or an early Shinkansen car; but I fear that the appeal of any such model will be limited by the factors already outlined and that it's reach will be too small to justify the outlay.

[raised]

1 hour ago, Hod Carrier said:

That said, I'd like someone to be able to break through and come up with a really decent train model in the style of the Saturn V. I think there's room for one; something like a large model of something iconic and internationally recognised, like Stephenson's Rocket, an American 4-4-0 or an early Shinkansen car; but I fear that the appeal of any such model will be limited by the factors already outlined and that it's reach will be too small to justify the outlay.

In fact, they already did so thrice: First the Emerald Night, which took its inspiration of the Flying Scotsman, the Mearsk container train which tried to appeal to 1/2nd of the world that sees american-style container trains on daily basis (and thus is an icon as such, and to be totally sure they combined it with the Mearsk sponsorship), and ofcourse the Horizon Express, which is the original TGV as so many people remember it.

Not sure if Stephensons' Rocket really speaks that much to the imagination, but indeed, a shinkansen might be one of the few memorable trains left...  There just aren't that many really iconic trains that are beloved worldwide unfortunately... 

[Hod Carrier]

@raised Forgive my ignorance, but did any of those sets come through Ideas?

[raised]

@Hod Carrier I don't think there was an Lego ideas in this form back then. Maybe the Horizon Express, but I'm pretty sure Maersk and Emerald Night are from the pre-Ideas times.

[Matt Dawson]

20 hours ago, Hod Carrier said:

@raised Forgive my ignorance, but did any of those sets come through Ideas?

Nope. All standard product range.

However the Horizon Express sold worst out the three as it A) It could definitely be seen as an incomplete train, and B) needed a lot of expenditure to get the suitable extra track and make it motorised. Although Emerald Night was only had a single carriage, at the price it was cheap enough to buy multiple and either sell the locomotive, in parts or whole (the driving wheels were exclusive to the set at the time) or use the parts for different locos/mocs, such as the French K22 pacifics.

[Vilhelm22]

How would an A4 Pacific sell? (The class of the Mallard, fastest ever locomotive, reaching 126 mph)

[zephyr1934]

4 hours ago, Matt Dawson said:

Nope. All standard product range.

However the Horizon Express sold worst out the three

They were all strictly inspired/built by Lego designers, but they were from the Direct to Consumer line- which now includes Creator Expert, all of the modular buildings (except the 2nd which was Lego factory), the Ultimate Star Wars sets, the Disney castle and train, winter village, etc. These sets are mostly not sold in stores (except Lego brand stores) and typically have a life cycle of 2-3 years.

As for the HE, I think a big reason why it did not sell well is that it was in a common color. Many EN and Maersk were parted out.

[monai]

The main problem for me is not to make a creator set but a railway system, as the old 12v, and a new track geometry, but perhaps LEGO is thinking there are too many third part producers in this sense. The train community is mainly AFOL and they love build by themselves the locomotives. Actual targets look at trains as complements to something else.

[Mr Hobbles]

5 hours ago, monai said:

The main problem for me is not to make a creator set but a railway system, as the old 12v, and a new track geometry, but perhaps LEGO is thinking there are too many third part producers in this sense. The train community is mainly AFOL and they love build by themselves the locomotives. Actual targets look at trains as complements to something else.

I don’t think they care much about the third party market. I think it’s more the simple fact that Lego trains don’t sell, so why bother investing in designing a new track system.