Fx Bricks (Michael Gale) announces Fx Track system

[XG BC]

19 hours ago, Jeffinslaw said:

Can you host them on Imgur? That picture is maybe 100 pixels by 60 pixels. 

yes, i think.

[M_slug357]

I prefer Flickr:

die Auszahlung (1) by Nick Jackson, on Flickr

die Auszahlung (2) by Nick Jackson, on Flickr

[Marlow]

Got the first of my 3 preorders from JB Spielwaren today.

 

It looks like there is not enough stock to fulfil all preorders initially. Lets hope they stay on track :)

/M

[dtomsen]

The future has arrived...finally got my three P40 sets today 



Much needed addition to the 9v part of our LTC layout:

Edited November 7, 2023 by dtomsen

[derlumpi]

18 hours ago, dtomsen said:

The future has arrived...finally got my three P40 sets today 



Much needed addition to the 9v part of our LTC layout:

Does the space between those tracks match the distance if your using Lego switches? 

[dtomsen]

3 hours ago, derlumpi said:

Does the space between those tracks match the distance if your using Lego switches? 

Yes, the distance follows the LEGO system geometry and is exacly 8 studs. It's fully compatible.
You can read a lot more about the design choices behind the Fx Bricks P40 switch in this blog by Michael Gale.

[aawsum]

On 6/13/2023 at 10:37 PM, michaelgale said:

3. THE PRICE!  Let me be clear:  150 USD for 2x metal rail switches of this size is 100% reasonable and consistent with global model train industry.  I think we in the LEGO train world are so "calibrated" to plastic track pricing and/or LEGO retail product volume pricing for tracks, that we lose sight of what the price / value relationship is.  

For example, here are some retail unit prices for comparable metal rail model train switches in O gauge and gauge 1:

LGB 16040 Right Turnout : €87.99
LGB 18050 Right Manual Turnout 15º : €155.00
Piko Left Switch R7 22.5º 35226 :  €132.00
Piko Left Switch R5 30º 35222 : €94.00
Piko Left Switch R3 22.5º 35228 :  €90.00
Lionel FasTrack O32 Left Switch 681254 :  $129.99 USD
Lionel FasTrack O36 Left Switch 612017 :  $54.99 USD

On average (taking approx. F/X rates) this represents about €98 per switch.  One P40 switch retails for €85 (€169.99 for 2x) on JBS.  Clearly, our pricing is consistent with the market.  Furthermore, all the above manufacturers have their products made in China just like us (I've visited their factories!)  -- so our retail prices are based on the same base costs, expenses, margins, etc.

So what is not clear to me, is why you have chosen to defend yourself against people questioning the price with stating that the FX brick rails is comparable to the market.
The competitors you are mentioning are like apples versus pears as this is for model train and not for use with Lego products. A lego switch is maybe compatible but also not comparable. Not sure what the production cost was in the past but with a current price of maybe 20 euro it is obviously far off.

The trigger for me is in your statement that pricing is based on the same base cost, expenses and margins. I would have expected a base cost that is much lower then the current price, so is this maybe due to other differences like the addition of the jumper to connect or isolate the diverging route rail for crossovers. So my real puzzle is if this switch has maybe been made overcomplicated (for some of the users) and therefore also increasing the base cost.

 

And let me be clear, I am not debating the price as everybody can do that for him/herself. I am just curious.

[michaelgale]

To be honest, I am not comfortable getting into debates about costs / prices etc.  My previous post about pricing was just to put our price into perspective with comparable products.  And by comparable, I don't mean compatible or identical.  As a basis of comparison, I don't have a lot to choose from.  I chose other retail model train products which have injection molded plastic, metal, and other components such as fasteners, electrical connectors, etc. that are about the same size/shape as a P40 switch.  I believe that is a fair basis of comparison.

When I refer to similar base costs, I'm talking about all the common things Fx Bricks, Piko, LGB, etc. pays for:  injection molding, metal stamping, labour, global logistics, etc.  And more specifically, incurring these costs in China where we all perform our manufacturing.

@aawsum You just have to take my word for it:  it is really expensive to develop a product like the P40 switch.  Our price is not high because of a $0.50 PCB + $0.50 2mm jumper.  It is high because it is almost 6-digits USD to tool a high precision (<0.05 mm tolerance) ABS mold for 320 x 120 mm.  And don't forget, you need to make 2x (left + right).  The next big ticket item is metal stamping all of the metal rails:  count them:  11x unique stampings.  We're not done yet:  molds for switch rails, covers, tie bars.  Still not done: metal stampings for tabs and interconnect.  And finally:  LABOUR.  We have to pay people to assemble 36x components PER SWITCH.  Then these folks electrically test each switch and QC the final assembly.  Then they have to be packaged and prepared for distribution.  

Again, I am really not comfortable talking about our cost / prices and hopefully this will not be a recurring discussion every time we release new products.  We are very grateful and appreciative to everyone who has demonstrated their support for us in the most meaningful way:  purchasing Fx Track.  Remember, we've already incurred all the development and capital costs plus all of the risk.  Therefore, as a business we are placing our trust and confidence in both our products and customers to make this work.  We are prepared to wait for the return on investment and in return, we need folks like you to trust us and recognize that our retail price is based on fundamental realities of manufacturing in 2023.

[BatteryPoweredBricks]

Interesting insight, I now see why 3d printing is so prevalent over injection molding 😅 and why Lego abandoned 9v track.  There will always be people belly aching over price, they probably aren't the target audience anyway (I realize the post being replied to said they weren't debating the price but just asking for clarification).  I don't consider myself in the target audience for most of the track options as I don't have a permanent Lego city, I'm not in a LUG, don't attend conventions etc.  I just build temporary layouts in my living room to see what Lego trains can do (on a somewhat tight budget) and share my findings.  9v layouts are part of that but not the primary focus.

I am very interested in future products such as replacement motors, power pickup bogies, speed regulator etc. But I realize that is a ways off with everything else in the works.  The transparency is much appreciated, always interesting to see what all is involved with such a project.  If there is any company on this earth I want to succeed it's FX Bricks... and Lego... I guess I need them around to 😁

[dtomsen]

My attempt at ballasting the P40 switch. It's a tough nut to crack but it's possible to do it nicely 



If using one layer of plates for the ballast instead of two like mine, Michael Gale's own solution is still the better choice tho.

Edited January 18 by dtomsen

[michaelgale]

@dtomsen That looks fabulous!  Well done!  Please show us the underside to figure out what you've done!

[zephyr1934]

On 11/5/2023 at 8:21 PM, M_slug357 said:

 

Not to nitpick, but it looks like your floor tiles are off by about 4 studs (grin)

 

6 hours ago, michaelgale said:

Again, I am really not comfortable talking about our cost / prices and hopefully this will not be a recurring discussion every time we release new products.  We are very grateful and appreciative to everyone who has demonstrated their support for us in the most meaningful way:  purchasing Fx Track.

Michael, you have produced incredible products for the Lego train community. They are way above anything Lego has produced (well, maybe the full 12v line is still ahead of you with it's diversity, but I'm sure it is only a matter of time before you catch up to that). As far as I can tell, the FX Track products are all great values for what they cost. You will never have the economies of scale that Lego had with the 9v system. While I have no idea what your profit margins are (nor do I care to ask), I would wager you would have made a lot more money if you had spent the time you invested in the 9v system doing your day job (again, I do not want to know the answer). I just hope you are in the black so that you keep expanding the world of 9v trains. Seeing more FX Track (and train) products is all the answer I need. If folks want to complain about profiteering, well, start with TLG, but they too make a great product.

The FX Tracks are a high quality product and they are priced where they need to be to continue production. With the high prices they are not for everyone. Nuff said

[dtomsen]

On 11/9/2023 at 6:05 AM, michaelgale said:

@dtomsen That looks fabulous!  Well done!  Please show us the underside to figure out what you've done!

Sure and thanks, Michael 



It's not completely finished yet and still needs some overall parts refinement although it's already pretty solid. It also wouldn't work without the two layers of plates.

The basis for the construction is bascially this:

Edited January 18 by dtomsen

[UltraViolet]

  I will simply say, you can have the product available to you at the going rate, or you can have nothing.  Personally, I was willing to pay the price for this product because it's much better than not having it at all.  As someone who has paid large sums of money to have custom-modified 9V tracks assembled by a service provider in the US, by comparison these are not expensive.  I may end up even modifying some of the FX Bricks switches to suit my needs, which is a lot easier with them in-hand than not having them available as a foundation.  Given that some of the other track components routinely sell out, particularly the S32 straight tracks, I think we can safely conclude that the market is quite well willing to bear the expense.  I understand that these prices put the system out of reach of some (if not many) people, but I never had ANY LEGO trains in my childhood for the same reason - price, and can only now, in my 40's, afford to occasionally splurge on the FX Track products.  I sympathize with those who cannot afford it, but complaining about it isn't going to change the financial realities behind the manufacturer's costs, and any particular consumer's ability to pay.

  I fully understand the eye-wateringly high costs of tooling development.  I work in retail currently, and I frequently have to pull out this fact on my customers when they want to rage-argue about why 'X' product should exist or why 'Y' product costs more than they want to pay.  It is incredible how much volume of a product needs to sell just to recover the start-up costs, let alone any of the other on-going costs of the supply chain and storefronts.  This is why Kickstarter fundraising campaigns have become so commonplace, whether for niche products or mass market.  Michael took a huge risk on footing the bill for developing this product, and much of the funds raised from them will go to rolling out the other promised companion products that are still to come.  The fact that his business and product development survived COVID is incredible, given how many others have shut down during that time due to all the challenges and cost pressures.

  I eagerly await the new track feeders and motor bogies, the existing LEGO originals of which are now outrageously expensive on the resale market, approaching or even exceeding what the FX Bricks releases will cost.  I consider my past FX Bricks purchases an investment in development of everything that has been released so far, and those still to come, not to mention supporting a Canadian company in my home province.

[aawsum]

Thanks @michaelgale as said it is up to everybody him/herself to decide. Good to see how solid the base has been setup and the tremendous amount of work that is needed to get a product like this. My curiosity will always stay but let it not be food for discussion.

[Landman]

I just want to thank @michaelgale for resurrecting an almost extinct 9v Train Era. I have dreams for a layout but no space and not much budget but I just purchased more track elements. What's wrong with me lol Happy to support FxBricks and it's future. 

Edited November 10, 2023 by Landman

[michaelgale]

@UltraViolet @zephyr1934 @Landman  Many thanks for your kind comments--much appreciated!

@dtomsen Thanks for sharing your ballasting method!  I may just have to "borrow" it for future instructions! ;)

[SD100]

@michaelgale My LUGmates and I are looking forward to a show next weekend with a bunch of new switches and R104s. They look amazing and it's such a huge upgrade from what we had before. Is there any estimated timeline on the larger radius curves? I know you've said the power pickup is probably the next focus, and I'm looking forward to that, but I'll buy up curves like no ones business as well...

Thanks!

SD

[michaelgale]

EVERYONE:  Please consult this latest blog post about a problem affecting some production P40 switches.  We are very sorry and are still getting to the bottom of it.  Rest assured we'll make it right.

https://shop.fxbricks.com/blogs/news/were-sorry

@SD100 Thanks!  That's great to hear!  I shouldn't really reveal it, but we have already tooled the R120, R136, R152 and this is the shocker:  the R168!  No word on release date yet since we have to get the P40 production and fulfillment sorted out.  I've seen production samples from my HK team and didn't realize how BIG these curve elements get!  The R152 and R168 are monsters!

[Landman]

I would not have noticed the switch issue if it had not been pointed out so thanks @michaelgale for your transparency and efforts to fix the issue it may not be a big issue to me but I will contact via your website. Many Thanks and here's to a smooth train ride moving forward pun intended lol.

[MellonHead]

Hi @michaelgale,

Thanks for the heads up!

I just send you an email trough Fx Bricks about the tiebars!

I was super happy when the switches and other products finally came along today and thought the strength and resistance of the tiebar was something from a new product that had to loosen a bit over time.

But all of my switches are affected unfortunately, so i hope to get replacement parts soon and fix it with ease myself, that is way easier then sending the whole lot back and another thing is why i wouldn't want that is because after many months of waiting i can't let them go XD once they came through the front door there is no turning back, you would have to fight me for it lol

Anyway love the product and the stuff you have put out so far also the whole switch as a single element feels really good!

Good luck with the rest of the company and i wish you and your team the best for the future! 

One final thing i want to point out about the switches which releases stress from them with r104s (and probably other wider curves) is by placing 2 ( either left or right ) switches in crossover formation but not directly to each other but with the r104s attached to the turnouts and straights to the ongoing length of the switch. Is that you can eliminate the 2 mm gap as those curves in opposite sides both make a nice path and equal the same distance the the oposed switch elimanating the 2mm gap on both sides and could make great use of wider curves, the only thing is that either left or right before the switch, depending on how you would attach them to your baseplate is that one end won't fit into the LEGO grid because of the shortened 2mm span of those curves ofcourse. but a nice follow up bend of curves can release the uneven ends, because 2mm can be shifted by the rail joints of the attached curves. for clarification i probably should make some pictures and post them as well which makes much more sence then writing it out.



 

[Landman]

3 minutes ago, MellonHead said:

One final thing i want to point out about the switches which releases stress from them with r104s (and probably other wider curves) is by placing 2 ( either left or right ) switches in crossover formation but not directly to each other but with the r104s attached to the turnouts and straights to the ongoing length of the switch. Is that you can eliminate the 2 mm gap as those curves in opposite sides both make a nice path and equal the same distance the the oposed switch elimanating the 2mm gap on both sides and could make great use of wider curves, the only thing is that either left or right before the switch, depending on how you would attach them to your baseplate is that one end won't fit into the LEGO grid because of the shortened 2mm span of those curves ofcourse. but a nice follow up bend of curves can release the uneven ends, because 2mm can be shifted by the rail joints of the attached curves. for clarification i probably should make some pictures and post them as well which makes much more sence then writing it out.



 

Please post some pictures I would love to see exactly what you mean.

[MellonHead]

17 minutes ago, Landman said:

Please post some pictures I would love to see exactly what you mean.

I will post them tomorrow or sunday!

 

[UltraViolet]

1 hour ago, michaelgale said:

EVERYONE:  Please consult this latest blog post about a problem affecting some production P40 switches.  We are very sorry and are still getting to the bottom of it.  Rest assured we'll make it right.

https://shop.fxbricks.com/blogs/news/were-sorry

@SD100 Thanks!  That's great to hear!  I shouldn't really reveal it, but we have already tooled the R120, R136, R152 and this is the shocker:  the R168!  No word on release date yet since we have to get the P40 production and fulfillment sorted out.  I've seen production samples from my HK team and didn't realize how BIG these curve elements get!  The R152 and R168 are monsters!

Hi Michael,

  I have this issue on the ones shipped to me, but I had already figured out the nature of the problem and fixed it myself by reaming an elongation into the slot by hand with a drill bit, similar to your official production change.  This was only necessary on one of the two holes on a given switch hand, however.  (I refrained from posting about it here prior so I didn't seem like a nitpicker/party-pooper.)  I will add though that in troubleshooting the issue, I found that the lettering on the tiebar was also raised just enough above the surface as to run slightly rough in the channel where is passes over the outer edge.  Scraping the lettering gently with the edge of a sharp blade dealt with it and allowed the tiebar to move fully smoothly.  I also tightened the springs a tiny bit to snug up the snap of the throw.  Through this fine-tuning I have the first pair working the way I was expecting them to.  Having the correct tiebar replacements would be appreciated though, as it will leave me with the old ones free to experiment with.

  One other minor observation is that the low ride clearance of the original 9V train motors can catch the leading edge of the metal conductor on the top surface of the moving points, as this metal edge is not recessed like most of the others.  I very lightly filed the edge of the metal to help with this, although it didn't completely eliminate the problem.  The points work their way loose from the tiebar and have a small amount of room to lift up before they hit the vertical stops.  Shimming the points fully down under the square hooks above the tiebar with brass shim-stock pretty well fixed the problem.  I will note that all of my 9V train motors have pre-existing scrapes and nicks under the the bottom edges of the housings, so it just seems to be par for the course with LEGO's original design choice, as all of the scrapes occurred with use on their own genuine switches and mostly prior to me acquiring them second-hand.  As such, I may end up filing the frame edges of the old motors to improve the ride height anyway.  I believe that any later model motor should not exhibit this clearance issue.

[Duq]

@UltraViolet I was halfway through fixing my first switch when I heard about the tie bar replacements. I had also noticed the lettering, especially the part number, not being flush with the surface, and the extra headroom under the stops. I'll wait for the new tie bars now before I make more modifications.

One thing I'm curious about though. You say you tightened the springs. How did you do that?