[Discussion] European Railway Instructions?

[raised]

Dear fellow Trainheads,

For some time there have been some high-quality instructions being released by Bricktraindepot, BMR*, Anthony Sava and others. However, being a EU trainhead, I can't help but notice that most of these are US loco's and railcars.

Now, I know that we as Europeans used to not really have a lot of standardized rolling stock that could be used all over Europe, so if you would want to sell instructions of a Dutch steam engine, there would only be a potential of one small country that might be interested in buying these instructions, instead of a whole continent. So, I understand that, with the exception of German rolling stock, there aren't a lot of high quality instructions out there for European trains.

However... Thanks to the privatisations of European rail in the last 20 years, and the standardization by the manufacturers, there have been some interesting possibilities coming up lately. For example the Bombardier Traxx, European Container trains, or even the Siemens Velaro D High Speed Train, for that matter. 

So, I think there are possiblities here. I'm just wondering why nobody has been releasing any of those yet while using the businessmodel of across the pond. What do you guys think is the reason for this?

 

Spoiler

(* Note: Even though I write and organize events for BMR, I'm currently just a contributor and not part of the BMR Premium Instructions team) 

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by raised

[Hod Carrier]

It’s an interesting question. Has the European market been tested to gauge interest?

My personal feeling based on no actual research at all is that the American market is much larger. Just looking at the shows that happen over there, the trains theme seems to be more active and therefore more widely accepted. American LUGs are able to field huge displays which doesn’t seem to be mirrored so much in Europe. That said, as I mentioned above, no-one has yet seemed to have tried.

Edited May 6, 2019 by Hod Carrier
Formatting

[Redimus]

I've been wanting to start selling instructions for my UK stuff, but due to a million different reasons, I haven't really got anywhere with that yet.

HA Bricks do some nice German/Dutch outline stuff.

Just now, Hod Carrier said:

It’s an interesting question. Has the European market been tested to gauge interest?

My personal feeling based on no actual research at all is that the American market is much larger. Just looking at the shows that happen over there, the trains theme seems to be more active and therefore more widely accepted. American LUGs are able to field huge displays which doesn’t seem to be mirrored so much in Europe. That said, as I mentioned above, no-one has yet seemed to have tried.

I've had plenty of questions about how to get hold of decent British outline sets or instructions at the shows I've been at. Problem is, the cost... well everything... would probably put them off eventually.

Speaking of cost, what do people think a good price for instructions is? I've seen some who's prices are outrageous. I honestly don't understand how you can charge $50+ for instructions alone, when the builds themselves are often very expensive. It just puts people off.

[Hod Carrier]

@Redimus That’s kind of what I mean. Expressions of interest are one thing, but getting them to actually buy something is another.

[UrbanErwin]

I think there would be some interest in the more standardised rolling-stock like container cars(Sgns(s)), bulk goods (Eanos) and perhaps tanker cars. Then people can add the engine of their preferred company in front of them.

[Duq]

Market size is probably a big one. As you mentioned, US freight engines can be seen all over a continent with 600 million people. In Europe there are few trains that cross borders and appeal to builders all over the continent.

Germany is a central country with an extensive railway network so it's no surprise that German train models are more popular around Europe than most other railways and as a result instructions do exist for a number of German models but others exist too.

HA Bricks was already mentioned, and of course there's Holger's book. Blokbricks sell instructions and models of a lot of Dutch trains (as well as that cute Brick Express BR99). Michael Gale sells instructions for some UK freight cars on fxbricks.com. That's just a few I'm aware of.

There are also free instructions like James Mathis on Brickshelf (http://www.brickshelf.com/cgi-bin/gallery.cgi?f=1626) and my own modest freight car on Flickr (https://www.flickr.com/photos/duq/albums/72157622442562186)

Speaking for myself, there are three reasons why I'm not selling instructions. One is time. It would take many hours to create instructions for my models. I don't have unlimited time for the hobby and I'd rather spend that time fiddling with a new model than making instructions. The second is that there's a difference between a model that kinda works for me but is fragile and temperamental and a model that is robust and reliable enough to have others build it. Kind like when AFOLs have to re-learn how to build when they start a job in Billund..

The third is not having a platform. How/where would I sell those instructions? My little BL shop doesn't get much traffic and it would take a while to build a sufficient catalog to set up a webshop. However if someone here wants to have a go at setting up a coop to sell instructions from different builders I would be game to go give that a go.

[dtomsen]

Really interesting question, raised.

Entrepreneurial mindset combined with socio-economical differences between the two continents would be my guess.

A while ago I had a long chat about this with an american who is printing on LEGO professionaly for others including PennLUG.

He had a difficult time understanding why we didn’t try to  monetizing our numerous instructions available online instead of giving them away for free. So we discussed this and came to the conclusion that living in a nordic welfare state there simply isn’t the same existential need and even some rather serious implications of starting to sell something professionally like unemployment protection and benefits, heavier taxation and so on. It simply isn’t worth the hassle trying to sell building instructions on a small scale and a business-model like those in the U.S would require a lot more to work.

Selling building instructions online also demands a great deal of presentation, presence and accountability. 

Heck even sharing them for free does 

There is also the difference between sharing your hobby versus living from your hobby which I won’t go deeper into 

Having said all of that, I don’t find the availability of very good looking building instructions for European trains and material lacking even compared to the U.S. You just have to look around a bit online, on flickr, facebook groups like Lego Train Fan Club, LUG sites, private sites like ours on snakebyte.dk and so on. You can even find them here on Eurobricks. 

There are also numerous commerical sites, even Dutch ones either focused on trains or providing more general downloading/selling servies. 

So no, imo the biggest difference is that the U.S. guys simply are much better at presentation and presence combined with some entrepreneurial advantages.

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2019 by dtomsen

[Roadmonkeytj]

This is soully my opinion with no hard evidence to back it up other than personal experiences.

From my experience its creativity.  The majority of americans (excluding people I've met here) they want it now or "feel as if theres no possible way they could build it" 

Yes the market is larger but I've noticed something.  Europe this is a hobby with emphasis on furthuring the hobby.  Here in the states the culture is a service industry.  People dont learn how to fix the toilet they call someone and pay them.  My personal experience is that people feel they cant build legos without instructions ... My own wife included! Lol.  The attitude in the states is give it to me now.   Saying that ive only bought one set of instructions.  And that was because after several months of trying i could not reverse engineer and wanted to know lol 

I think a good line of British engines and rolling stock would "sell"  although perhaps not as well in europe but in the states (thanks to the Thomas the tank)

[Redimus]

1 hour ago, Roadmonkeytj said:

This is soully my opinion with no hard evidence to back it up other than personal experiences.

From my experience its creativity.  The majority of americans (excluding people I've met here) they want it now or "feel as if theres no possible way they could build it" 

Yes the market is larger but I've noticed something.  Europe this is a hobby with emphasis on furthuring the hobby.  Here in the states the culture is a service industry.  People dont learn how to fix the toilet they call someone and pay them.  My personal experience is that people feel they cant build legos without instructions ... My own wife included! Lol.  The attitude in the states is give it to me now.   Saying that ive only bought one set of instructions.  And that was because after several months of trying i could not reverse engineer and wanted to know lol 

I think a good line of British engines and rolling stock would "sell"  although perhaps not as well in europe but in the states (thanks to the Thomas the tank)

Honestly, I couldn't disagree more. I'm British, and I'd much rather pay for a professional to do something for me than for me to screw it up myself.
When I got into Lego trains, I tried a bit on LDD, and ran into the dual problems of no having any idea how to complete the design, and being told by anyone who looked at it that it'd never work. Probably would have given up then were it not for Murdoch17 (who I've always assumed was American, but don't really know) who has a load of freely available LDD files. I took one of his and modded it to what I wanted. I learnt a ton from that and moved on to the next project. Had I not been able to take his existing, working design, I probably would have gotten fed up and found a different hobby. 

So I do feel that a decent range of free or *affordable* instructions for custom locos is an important part of the process to learning your way into the hobby. It's not a lack of effort, or an expectation for people to do everything for you, it is a lack of self beleif and confidence, coupled with what is an expensive hobby. Can't do much about the expense, can do something about the other problem.

[Stefaneris]

For my part, I don't make any instructions because I don't have time to learn it (and also don't want it). Another reason is, that some MOCs of mine are quite fragile and if I would buy instructions from someone I want the model to hold together.

However, if there is a LDD model or somehting like that, I'm happy to share it. Also on exhibitions, if someone asks if I have instructions I offer to show them the building techniques I used. I also learn new things at exhibitions while talking with other builders.

There's also the German community 1000 Steine, of course everything is German but there are a lot of builders who build MOCs of German and other rolling stock. There's also from time to time the question if there are any instructions available, but often the answer is no. But there are books about our hobby, for example @HoMa 's books about trains. I don't own them so I can't tell a lot about but there should be techniques and a lot of pictures included. I'm not sure about instructions though.

[Vliebricker]

Hi Guys, and yes Raised, as it has been said: an interesting question that you've raised! But here's another question: did anyone ever inventorize the number of US rolling stock (building instructions [BI]) that is available (for free or for sale) compared to the EU rolling stock? Are the numbers far apart, you think?

Could it be that the average US AFOL's mindset is willing to pay for BI quickly where the EU AFOL finds more satisfaction in the Trial & Error method?

And, in USA, what was first, a demand for BI of the supply of BI? For sure in USA the model trains market is larger. When you consider the number of model railroad clubs and magazines, the numbers are larger than in EU. Plus, I think there are more US model railroad lovers in EU (and I'm one of these) than vice versa.

Concerning the selling of BI on this side of the Atlantic ocean, I only know of a few companies selling commercial kits with BI. Besides those there are a number of individual AFOLs who are willing to share their range of ideas with other enthusiastic "trainheads". As far as I'm concerned it can be kept that way. LEGO is a hobby for me (which already cost me a bundle  ) and I'm willing to share whatever with whoever. And perhaps a central library with train BI has to be set up?