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The Forest Mafia: Day Six


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#26 iamded

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 04:36 AM

View PostWhiteFang, on 28 March 2011 - 03:20 AM, said:

I am getting very confused...

Basically it doesn't mean anything. It's as relevant as our resident tree stump over there...


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#27 Dragonator

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 05:43 AM

Not finding out the alignment of Sheldon is a real pain, as it means we can't analyse anything that was said yesterday in relation to the result now either. Ah well, we shall just need to move onwards and upwards.

It appears the black wand killer did not strike last night, nor did any other 2nd killer other than the arsonist, which suggests we may be rid of them. I hope that is the case. As for the arsonist, I find his or her choice of target to be a very interesting one. Only a few people knew of Kenda's actions I believe, so I am going to look into this and see what I can come up with.

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#28 Dragonator

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 07:34 AM

Alright, I've finished confirming a few things, and I have some good and some bad news. The good news is that I am confident we have uncovered another Demon Legionnaire. The bad news is that that person is our self-proclaimed "towniest of town", Helen Hippo. I'll now explain what I used to come to this conclusion, so that you can all consider it and decide what to do.

First of all, I don't think Helen has been scum all along. My theory is that when Helen was resurrected she was converted to the demon legion, whether intentionally or not, by the reviver, just like Felix was (Felix previously being neutral). This also agrees with the theory that scum actions can be shared, which would account for the continued presence of the arsonist after we killed Felix. Because Felix and Lauren were already under heavy scrutiny, Helen played along, but since then I have seen several things that indicate she is no longer one of us. Firstly, and most importantly, we have an investigation result from the same source that confirmed Lauren as scum, indicating that Helen is a demon legionnaire. I was highly skeptical of this at first, and wanted to deal with Sheldon yesterday, but I now have a few more reasons to suspect Helen. Firstly, we set Helen up to test her night action claim last night. and had Kenda follow her to make sure she did as we asked. Now we find Kenda dead. Helen knew that Kenda was the watcher, and as she suspected we were going to test her, this was a likely kill for her if she is the new arsonist. Which I believe she is. Next, we have the suspicious claim this morning from Helen that her action was unsuccessful. As I know for a fact that someone targeted the person she was meant to watch, I know this is a lie.

That's the main evidence I have currently. We can also note that Helen has said a lot less since her revival compared to before, and yesterday made an inaccurate vote against Sheldon with no other explanation.

Thus, I am most confident that Helen is no longer what she once claimed to be. Please consider the above evidence and let me know what you all think. :sweet:

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#29 Speedy

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 08:47 AM

Oh my...
Booker, some of what you wrote is true, but a lot isn't.

You did get a scum read on me, my take was that I was framed. Believe it or not, I believe we have that sort of God.

I had no idea Kendra had an ability.  I thought Kendra was scum, and talked to your partner (who I won't name) about the fact I thought they were suspicious.  I'd found her suspicious since day one.  That's such a strange accusation.  I think you'd be better off finding out who knew Kendra had abilities.  You're sorely misguided with that accusation.

The mistyped lynch vote is the most nonsensical thing.  And I did explain it, at the end of the last day.  You must have been sleeping.  In what way is writing a similar name a scummy move?  It wasn't going to save Sheldon, was it?  And, if you check back, the vote was counted.

As you said, you think scum can move their abilities, well, maybe they moved their blocker role... So, I was blocked last night.  Or something.


Anyway, I am town, surrounded by circumstantial evidence.  I think you may have to go with it, but hopefully my innocent, cute corpse will help you learn what's going wrong with town's strategy.

And you demon scumbags, rolling in the dirt, laughing at the corner you've painted poor townie Helen into... Well, I won't forget this!

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#30 Dragonator

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 09:04 AM

View Postdef, on 28 March 2011 - 08:47 AM, said:

Anyway, I am town, surrounded by circumstantial evidence.
I wouldn't really call a guilty result from a previously proven source "circumstantial". :laugh: What do the rest of you all think?

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#31 Speedy

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 09:13 AM

View PostDragonator, on 28 March 2011 - 09:04 AM, said:

I wouldn't really call a guilty result from a previously proven source "circumstantial". :laugh:
In terms of mafia, it is.

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#32 Fugazi

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 09:35 AM

View PostDragonator, on 28 March 2011 - 09:04 AM, said:

I wouldn't really call a guilty result from a previously proven source "circumstantial". :laugh: What do the rest of you all think?
I think that it all depends on the investigator being trustworthy, and if you have good reasons to think he (still) is, then the accusation is valid.
One thing I would like explained though. Felix made a big deal of revealing his conversion when it wasn't that obvious that he had been converted until we lynched him. He could have been scum right from the start. I thought that he would have wanted to downplay that part if Def had been converted in the same way the night before?

until we lynched him actually, we still don't know for sure if he started out as scum or neutral
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#33 iamded

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 10:29 AM

View Postdef, on 28 March 2011 - 08:47 AM, said:

I'd found her suspicious since day one.
If it helps anyone, I can vouch for that.


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#34 Speedy

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 11:36 AM

View Postiamded, on 28 March 2011 - 10:29 AM, said:

If it helps anyone, I can vouch for that.
I'm sure I said it to a few people in private.  While I knew about Esk's ability, I had no clue about Walter and ISC's.  One reason is I never asked.  Need to know basis after all. It seems someone who to target, and it wasn't me.  

And I agree with the point about Felix not being recruited.  He said he was recruited.   Why is Booker taking that as a fact?  Why would Felix be doing town any favors and filling us in?  I know who revived me, and I believe them to be town.  And I know how Felix was revived, and they were separate situations.  I've explained this to Booker in private, so he should be able to verify this.

Again, I know I was given a scum reading, but it's not unheard of.  I remember a certain King of Delaware... All my actions have been consistently town oriented.  I'm kind of surprised at some of the reasons he gave, since they were unfounded.

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#35 Dragonator

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 12:15 PM

As I said, Helen is an option we should explore, and currently has the most evidence against her. I know some of this is more inference than solid fact, but that is my interpretation of events. I suspect, as a theory, that Helen and Felix were both converted, as this makes the most sense to me. I think it is unlikely we would have two converters that would do the same thing, and Felix being converted explains both his alignment as scum, not neutral, and the continuation of the arsonist action, as it is being handed around to the scum. Thus, it would make sense for Helen to now be the arsonist, in my opinion at least, and this combined with the factual result we got on her in investigation and her failure to carry out her action last night as instructed is condemning. I'm not trying to say it is conclusive though, anything but. However, we need to vote out someone today, and currently I feel Helen is our best bet. If other people have suggestions, I am more than happy to hear them, that is what this morning is for, after all. :classic:

Alternatively, since we don't have entirely conclusive evidence, I would be willing to give Helen the benefit of the doubt for the time being in favour of a better conviction. I thought it was time for the information to be made public anyway, as this should be a group decision.

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#36 CorneliusMurdock

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 01:41 PM

Well, I will say that offering information to the group to base our decisions on is a lot different from what Helen has been offering lately.  Since I do believe she knew of a lot of people with abilities, the simplest explanation for their deaths would be her conversion.  I've got to think some more...

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#37 Fugazi

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 01:58 PM

View Postdef, on 28 March 2011 - 11:36 AM, said:

I know who revived me, and I believe them to be town. And I know how Felix was revived, and they were separate situations.
This would warrant a more detailed explanation I believe, because it is key to some of the doubt cast on you, Helen. How exactly are those two separate situations?
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#38 Speedy

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 02:10 PM

View PostCorneliusMurdock, on 28 March 2011 - 01:41 PM, said:

Well, I will say that offering information to the group to base our decisions on is a lot different from what Helen has been offering lately.  Since I do believe she knew of a lot of people with abilities, the simplest explanation for their deaths would be her conversion.
I'm sorry, but you've had really poor judgment to me since day one, even after I gave you clear info in private to show I was being straight with you.
I knew some people with abilities, Sandy and Esk.  I didn't know about Walter or ISC.  So, call me a liar if you like.

I have an ability, I've been working for town since day one, my ability helped convict the two scum who were convicted.  But by the logic being thrown out here, I was working for the scum while I worked really hard to convict two of them.  It makes no sense whatsoever. But if I were framed and blocked, it would be exactly the situation we find here.

I want you to really go back to the days after my 'death' and think about if I was really secretly working for the scum all that time.  It seems incredibly obvious that I wasn't.

Anyway, I'll not bitch about it if you need to vote me out, but I will correct the lapses in logic that are coming out.

Booker, regarding your pointing the finger at me, can you explain how you know I 'knew' Kendra had an ability and would follow me?  Ask the other people you know I've been chatting with, and see if anyone can confirm this.  Nobody will, since I didn't.  Then explain why my vote yesterday helped scum in any way.  As I wrote, I was on a cell phone for two days, and it was a hassle to check back on the page.

Speaking of which, I'm on my phone now, and it's a pain to type on.

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#39 CorneliusMurdock

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 02:37 PM

Please stop telling me I'm stupid, Helen.  I've been patient with you so far, but don't push me.  Besides, my post clearly said I hadn't reached a conclusion, yet.

I do have a question for you.  How did Benji (Walter) know to target Felix (Shadows) for a kill the night you had Pennie (Eskallon) also block him?  You said that you had a plan to catch the arsonist.  I assume Pennie was in on it.  Wasn't Benji?

(See, I'm being nice so you don't have to look up who is who.)

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#40 Speedy

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 03:09 PM

View PostCorneliusMurdock, on 28 March 2011 - 02:37 PM, said:

Please stop telling me I'm stupid, Helen.  I've been patient with you so far, but don't push me.  Besides, my post clearly said I hadn't reached a conclusion, yet.

I do have a question for you.  How did Benji (Walter) know to target Felix (Shadows) for a kill the night you had Pennie (Eskallon) also block him?  You said that you had a plan to catch the arsonist.  I assume Pennie was in on it.  Wasn't Benji?

(See, I'm being nice so you don't have to look up who is who.)
I haven't called you stupid, I'm working hard to keep my temper :wink:  actually, I'm a lot more relaxed at the moment.

The target on Felix was done in conjunction with Booker.  Actually, I had little to do with it, I only talked to Lazlo/Pies about blocking Felix, while Booker handled the vig.  I never even asked Booker the identity, I just trusted that he was in touch with him.  I don't remember what I planned with Esk that night.  He said he was a protector/blocker, but something came up where results conflicted, so maybe he was just a protector.  Anyway, I spoke with Walter a little, but I kept some distance, since a number of people approached me in the first few days, and I was wary unless they were giving me something to work with.  Sandy and Esk were two I talked with a lot.  The last two 'days' I've been recuperating from stress, and have been trying to chat less in private, though now I'm in the unfortunate position I'm in now.

Again, look at the record after I was revived, and see that I aggressively worked against scum.  I had little to say about Sheldon, that was Booker's evidence, I had no part of that.

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#41 CorneliusMurdock

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 03:21 PM

I did mean to say Lazlo instead of Pennie before.  (Real life does get in the way of checking one's notes, doesn't it?)

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#42 Scouty

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 03:44 PM

View PostDragonator, on 28 March 2011 - 12:15 PM, said:

Alternatively, since we don't have entirely conclusive evidence, I would be willing to give Helen the benefit of the doubt for the time being in favour of a better conviction. I thought it was time for the information to be made public anyway, as this should be a group decision.
Thank you for releasing this information. I'd like to believe Helen, but I don't see a better lead for today, and I'd rather go off of something rather than making a shot in the dark. I still can't believe that there are two Town revivers.
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#43 Rufus

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 04:33 PM

View PostScouts, on 28 March 2011 - 03:44 PM, said:

Thank you for releasing this information. I'd like to believe Helen, but I don't see a better lead for today, and I'd rather go off of something rather than making a shot in the dark. I still can't believe that there are two Town revivers.
I too would like to believe Helen, but the investigation result has to be trusted.  If it is inaccurate, then God has played an almighty trick on all of us.  We don't have any other leads, and often the simplest explanation is the correct one - that Helen is indeed scum, so I suggest we need to lynch her today.

As for the possibility of two Town revivers, I believe that to be true.  Both have been confirmed town one way or another, and both had conditions attached which meant that there was a limit to the number of revivals possible - we all saw the condition in poor, brave Wendell's case.  What remains unanswered is whether the revival could be influenced in some way to produce a conversion, which might explain Helen and Felix both being scum afterwards.

#44 Speedy

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 04:35 PM

View PostScouts, on 28 March 2011 - 03:44 PM, said:

Thank you for releasing this information. I'd like to believe Helen, but I don't see a better lead for today, and I'd rather go off of something rather than making a shot in the dark. I still can't believe that there are two Town revivers.
Booker knows there are (I think).

Anyway, i'm town, Booker got suckered, but it was important that I don't just roll over and play dead, that would be unfair to the rest of the town.  The record at the end of this ordeal will show the poor logic of my vilification.  

The first couple of days, taking a risky vote is helpful.  Day six, it's a very dangerous risk, and puts town at a big disadvantage.  The scum still have a blocker, and they used it on me.  If town votes me out, they lose a town role, and they free up the blocker to block someone else.

Again, the scum are rolling on the floor laughing at this whole situation.

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#45 Professor Flitwick

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 04:36 PM

View PostScouts, on 28 March 2011 - 03:44 PM, said:

I still can't believe that there are two Town revivers.

I believe this alone is a case for voting against Helen, and one of my reasons for being initially suspicious of her. I do find it odd that she voted for Lauren and Felix, though she could've done that to keep up appearances... :look:

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#46 Speedy

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 04:41 PM

Actually, it needs to be repeated again: Booker is hypothesizing that I was converted before I persecuted Lauren and Felix.  That makes no sense whatsoever.  That is not a successful strategy, taking out two of your few teammates.  Anyone who can believe that isn't thinking things through.  Sorry, it needs to be flatly said.

View PostProfessor Flitwick, on 28 March 2011 - 04:36 PM, said:

I believe this alone is a case for voting against Helen, and one of my reasons for being initially suspicious of her. I do find it odd that she voted for Lauren and Felix, though she could've done that to keep up appearances... :look:
Please think about your statement.  Did I merely vote for them, or rally for their lynching?  There's a massive difference.

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#47 Hinckley

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 05:17 PM

Mod note: I see everyone is sitting here waiting. That is because I'm late. I lost track of time. Sorry. :blush:

You may now vote. You have about 48 hours to reach a conviction. With 14 people left, it takes 8 votes to lynch.

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#48 Speedy

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 06:03 PM

part of that anagram is helen and framed. At least 'God' has a 'conscience'

View Postdef, on 28 March 2011 - 06:01 PM, said:

part of that anagram is helen and framed. At least 'God' has a 'conscience'
Nope, not enough 'e's.  Framed hippo.

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#49 Speedy

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Posted 28 March 2011 - 07:07 PM

Sorry, I'm just bored now.  No TV, no computer, my whole house in boxes.  This hippo is going to roll in the mud for a nap now.

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#50 Inconspicuous

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Posted 29 March 2011 - 12:44 AM

I apologize for being absent during the earlier part of the discussion.

This evidence against Helen is quite strong, and is definitely worth looking in to. I'm not 100% convinced that Helen is scum if (as the riddle seems to suggest) she was framed. I need to look back on the day's activity and work on the riddle before I cast a vote against Helen.

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